Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question
Closed

Another 5870 vs 470 GTX question - 10/28/10

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
Share
October 28, 2010 12:19:13 PM

Hey guys, I have a $450 budget and recently my 9800 GT died so I'm looking to upgrade. Now, I'm asking about these two cards but if you have another suggestion don't be bashful; go ahead and suggest away. Anyway, I have found a 2gb vram sapphire version of 5870 for ~370 on newegg but then the 470 gtx is $270. I'm wondering if the price difference is worth it? I can't find a definitive answer. Anyway, thanks for your help!

p.s specs;
E8500 3.16ghz wolf
4gb ocz plat
antec 1200
gigabyte ep45-ds3r
run at 1900x1200 resolution

More about : 5870 470 gtx question

a c 1408 U Graphics card
October 28, 2010 3:48:50 PM

I would get a HD6870 performs a little bit lower than GTX470 but is cheaper and more power efficient. The HD5870 is not worth the $100 price premium over the GTX470. Your Dual core will be a slight bottleneck for all those cards.
Score
0
October 28, 2010 4:05:53 PM

I would go with 6870 at $240.

58xx will be phased out, and the price is too high. Definitely not a good choice.
Score
0
Related resources
a c 624 U Graphics card
October 28, 2010 5:06:47 PM

Of the two cards you listed, the GTX470 is a bargain at $100 less than a 5870. You should also be able to get a nice custom card with an improved heatsink cooler. Don't forget, if you play games that feature PhysX, the GTX470 is your only choice, as AMD cards do not support PhysX.
Score
0
October 28, 2010 6:11:09 PM

17seconds said:
Of the two cards you listed, the GTX470 is a bargain at $100 less than a 5870. You should also be able to get a nice custom card with an improved heatsink cooler. Don't forget, if you play games that feature PhysX, the GTX470 is your only choice, as AMD cards do not support PhysX.

what game(s) do PhysX? and how much improvement are we talking about?
Score
0
a c 624 U Graphics card
October 28, 2010 6:19:43 PM

cirslevin said:
what game(s) do PhysX? and how much improvement are we talking about?

PhysX is proprietary to Nvidia cards, so it is impossible to enable it on the 5870. Games that support PhysX are Unreal Tournament III, Mafia 2, Batman: Arkham Asylum, Dark Void, Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter 2, Mirror's Edge and:
http://www.nzone.com/object/nzone_physxgames_all.html

An improved heatsink will lower temps by 10-20c and reduce noise to near silent levels.
Score
0
a c 217 U Graphics card
October 28, 2010 6:21:14 PM

cirslevin said:
what game(s) do PhysX? and how much improvement are we talking about?


http://www.nzone.com/object/nzone_physxgames_home.html

Be aware of a few critical details about deciding if GPU accelerated physX matters to you:
1) Most PhysX titles do not offer GPU accelerated PhysX. PhysX runs on the CPU in these games.
2) Many "PhysX" titles are only physX titles because they use a game engine that is capible of physX, and doesn't actually use those features.
3) Of the games listed in the link above, not all gain any real performance advantages with GPU accelerated physX, as it's not significant enough of a performance hit to need it.

There are a handful of games were it is pretty cool and may be something you'd like to see, but in most physX titles, it's not a big deal and usually offers no benefit at all. Batman AA is one noted to look better with physX, Metro 2033 has some very minor improvements. Dark void goes crazy with it, but to use it would require a dedicated card to use anything beyond the lowest setting, which is almost unplayable without a dedicated card.

Edit:

It's also important to note, that the list given by the poster above me is not a list of which uses GPU accelerated physX. The vast majority of those titles run exactly the same as it would with an ATI card.
Score
0
October 28, 2010 6:38:40 PM

cirslevin said:
what game(s) do PhysX? and how much improvement are we talking about?



exactly...
and who ever uses physX? benchmark? no!
nobody..
ati all the way.. nvidia is egg cooker
Score
0
a c 273 U Graphics card
October 28, 2010 6:46:12 PM

_orbital_ said:
exactly...
and who ever uses physX? benchmark? no!
nobody..
ati all the way.. nvidia is egg cooker

Still spreading the FUD. :pfff: 
Score
0
October 28, 2010 7:14:26 PM

a?
Score
0
a c 273 U Graphics card
October 28, 2010 7:24:52 PM

_orbital_ said:
a?

Legitreviews tried to cook an egg on a GTX480 and it doesn't get nowhere near hot enough to even get the white cloudy let alone cook it, so your comment about egg cookers is FUD.
Score
0
October 28, 2010 7:27:02 PM

look at there temps again..
Score
0
a c 273 U Graphics card
October 28, 2010 7:30:27 PM

_orbital_ said:
look at there temps again..

Try watching the video again.
Score
0
October 28, 2010 7:39:21 PM

"great" test this is not a benchmark but running the heaven benchmark on demo, stupid test.
let it test it run it for real.. bench it. than temps will rise to 90 C
Score
0
a c 273 U Graphics card
October 28, 2010 7:41:23 PM

_orbital_ said:
"great" test this is not a benchmark but running the heaven benchmark on demo, stupid test.
let it test it run it for real.. bench it. than temps will rise to 90 C

At the GPU (just like quite a few ATi cards) but not at the heatsink, unless of course you can prove otherwise.
Score
0
a c 217 U Graphics card
October 28, 2010 8:25:10 PM

_orbital_ said:
"great" test this is not a benchmark but running the heaven benchmark on demo, stupid test.
let it test it run it for real.. bench it. than temps will rise to 90 C


They do run at 90C, but of course that is their operating temperatures. Their drivers cause the fans to go up and down so it maintains 90C.
Score
0
October 28, 2010 9:30:19 PM

bystander said:
They do run at 90C, but of course that is their operating temperatures. Their drivers cause the fans to go up and down so it maintains 90C.



well than logically gpu won't last for too long..
Score
0
a c 273 U Graphics card
October 28, 2010 9:33:05 PM

_orbital_ said:
well than logically gpu won't last for too long..

So in your "expert" opinion, how long do you think they will last?
Score
0
a b U Graphics card
October 28, 2010 9:40:06 PM

_orbital_ said:
well than logically gpu won't last for too long..


They are manufacturered to run at that temperature, why the hell would Nvidia sell a card that overheats?

The experts at nvidia have developed this card to run hot, and hot it does run, but in terms of overheating, it still has from 90oc got 15oc to go before it reaches its limits...

I cant understand where your logic or reasoning comes from by saying these cards wont last long at their operating temperatures of 90oc..
Score
0
October 28, 2010 9:46:17 PM

ok, they are build like that.. i got it, but than it will heat up your case dumb solution to make card run hot..
Score
0
a b U Graphics card
October 28, 2010 9:50:07 PM

My case is perfectly fine?? They have "blower" fans on these, which means the heat is being pushed from the chipset to the back of the card and out of the case.
Even if they have custom conventional fans on them, meaning they suck cold air onto the chipset, they do this 5-20oC cooler anyways, bringing the temps from 90oC to 70-80oC?? Still perfectly fine if you ask me

Both ATI/AMD and Nvi cards run hot, Nvi hotter yes, but nothing a side fan/case fan cant suck the hot air out of the case anyways...

Score
0
a c 624 U Graphics card
October 28, 2010 9:52:36 PM

_orbital_ said:
ok, they are build like that.. i got it, but than it will heat up your case dumb solution to make card run hot..

The reference cooler exhausts heat outside the case.
Score
0
October 28, 2010 9:56:46 PM

hmm.. i have 5850 xfx where fan is in the middle of the card and i have antec case my card runs 36 C idle and 50-57 C load, that's why i was like 90 C ????? wow
anyway i guess it is what it is
Score
0
a b U Graphics card
October 28, 2010 9:59:14 PM

_orbital_ said:
hmm.. i have 5850 xfx where fan is in the middle of the card and i have antec case my card runs 36 C idle and 50-57 C load, that's why i was like 90 C ????? wow
anyway i guess it is what it is


My second Gtx470 runs at 35-45oC Idle and 55-70oC at load... Not much difference??
Score
0
October 28, 2010 10:03:29 PM

reccy said:
My second Gtx470 runs at 35-45oC Idle and 55-70oC at load... Not much difference??



he he nope..
Score
0
a b U Graphics card
October 28, 2010 10:07:22 PM

Enjoy your second rate system dude, i'll enjoy my awesome SLI overheating pile of crap Nvidia has sold..
Score
0
a c 273 U Graphics card
October 28, 2010 10:09:02 PM

reccy said:
Enjoy your second rate system dude, i'll enjoy my awesome SLI overheating pile of crap Nvidia has sold..

Now that was uncalled for. :non: 
Score
0
October 28, 2010 10:10:34 PM

reccy said:
Enjoy your second rate system dude, i'll enjoy my awesome SLI overheating pile of crap Nvidia has sold..




;]]]]
Score
0
a b U Graphics card
October 28, 2010 10:12:15 PM

Mousemonkey said:
Now that was uncalled for. :non: 


Sorry, replace "overheating" with "totally awesome"

My mistake :love: 
Score
0
a c 273 U Graphics card
October 28, 2010 10:19:45 PM

Let's not turn this into another e-peen contest.
Score
0
a b U Graphics card
October 28, 2010 10:22:24 PM

[:aford10:3] in your face with a pile of mace!!
Score
0
a c 273 U Graphics card
October 28, 2010 10:48:51 PM

Don't make me come over there and
Score
0
a c 217 U Graphics card
October 29, 2010 12:44:17 AM

_orbital_ said:
ok, they are build like that.. i got it, but than it will heat up your case dumb solution to make card run hot..


These air cooled systems do work a little different than that.

If they blow out the back, they don't heat up the case as much, but they do tend to run hotter. If they blow air into the case, the GPU runs cooler, but the case gets hotter, including your CPU.

If they run the fans higher to keep the temps lower on the GPU, that just means it disperses the heat into the case more rapidly making the case hotter.

The crazy thing is I was reading an artical with some of the limitations of the 5970's with air cooling. While the GPU's would run around 80-85C, the problem they ran into was the VRM's were running at 120C and once it went over 120C, they'd get the vertical line problem you've heard about so much.

I'd rather have the GPU itself run a little hotter, yet still managable, than have my VRM's hit 120C.
Score
0
a c 273 U Graphics card
October 29, 2010 1:47:46 AM

bystander said:
These air cooled systems do work a little different than that.

If they blow out the back, they don't heat up the case as much, but they do tend to run hotter. If they blow air into the case, the GPU runs cooler, but the case gets hotter, including your CPU.

If they run the fans higher to keep the temps lower on the GPU, that just means it disperses the heat into the case more rapidly making the case hotter.

The crazy thing is I was reading an artical with some of the limitations of the 5970's with air cooling. While the GPU's would run around 80-85C, the problem they ran into was the VRM's were running at 120C and once it went over 120C, they'd get the vertical line problem you've heard about so much.

I'd rather have the GPU itself run a little hotter, yet still managable, than have my VRM's hit 120C.

This kind of article?

Where an ATi card hits over 100c but is never talked about by the ATi faithfull.

Now that's an egg cooker! :lol: 
Score
0
October 29, 2010 2:03:01 AM

bystander said:
These air cooled systems do work a little different than that.

If they blow out the back, they don't heat up the case as much, but they do tend to run hotter. If they blow air into the case, the GPU runs cooler, but the case gets hotter, including your CPU.

If they run the fans higher to keep the temps lower on the GPU, that just means it disperses the heat into the case more rapidly making the case hotter.

The crazy thing is I was reading an artical with some of the limitations of the 5970's with air cooling. While the GPU's would run around 80-85C, the problem they ran into was the VRM's were running at 120C and once it went over 120C, they'd get the vertical line problem you've heard about so much.

I'd rather have the GPU itself run a little hotter, yet still managable, than have my VRM's hit 120C.




wo wo wo..
hold on a minute.. ati and 120 C??? card would die..
but talking about nvidia 90 C we know that that card needs some power to cool it down.. so like i said.. dumb solution to run it on 90 C
Score
0
a b U Graphics card
October 29, 2010 2:03:38 AM

My old 4850 single slot beat that. 100-110 C (on the core, not the VRM) and didn't crash, and still works to this day (albeit with a better cooler).

And another thing to remember, 90-100 C at the Chip or VRM != 90-100 C at the top of the cooler or back of the card. There are phenomena called conduction and convection which means these exterior portions of the chip must be a finite difference lower than the hottest central part of the chip.
Score
0
October 29, 2010 2:09:49 AM

EXT64 said:
My old 4850 single slot beat that. 100-110 C (on the core, not the VRM) and didn't crash, and still works to this day (albeit with a better cooler).

And another thing to remember, 90-100 C at the Chip or VRM != 90-100 C at the top of the cooler or back of the card. There are phenomena called conduction and convection which means these exterior portions of the chip must be a finite difference lower than the hottest central part of the chip.



i don't know.. i saw my old 1950 xt hit 115 C and crashed not died but still.. i think that's too much, even nvidia like people are saying is designed for high temps needs a lot of power to cool it down..
Score
0
a b U Graphics card
October 29, 2010 2:32:08 AM

I agree, it is high for my tastes. However, the issue is easy to fix - buy a GTX 470/480 with a cooler like MSI's Twin Frozr 2. Should drop temps to a reasonable level (or so I hope, as I plan on getting one).
Score
0
October 29, 2010 2:36:34 AM

i am happy with my 5850 xfx
not planning in near future to buy any nvidia or only for 3d
but ati has 3d drivers as well.. so
ati is the best for now
Score
0
a b U Graphics card
October 29, 2010 2:40:24 AM

Well, as you can see I have a 5850 as well and love it too for gaming. However, I'm looking into doing a bit of GPU programming, and frankly NVidia and their CUDA still lead solidly in that area.
Score
0
a c 273 U Graphics card
October 29, 2010 2:43:13 AM

_orbital_ said:
i am happy with my 5850 xfx
not planning in near future to buy any nvidia or only for 3d
but ati has 3d drivers as well.. so
ati is the best for now

Let's hope their 3D is easier to work with than their multi-monitor setup has been, as it seems some people are still having problems getting Eyefinity to work for them and it's been over a year since that was introduced.
Score
0
October 29, 2010 2:43:38 AM

i can't argue about that..
Score
0
October 29, 2010 2:44:29 AM

Mousemonkey said:
Let's hope their 3D is easier to work with than their multi-monitor setup has been, as it seems some people are still having problems getting Eyefinity to work for them and it's been over a year since that was introduced.




hmmm.. is it really? never experienced that kind of issue
Score
0
a b U Graphics card
October 29, 2010 2:45:22 AM

I thought initially it looked like AMD's 3D looked like more of a pain to deal with, however I think I'm immune to 3D, so that isn't a major selling point to me :D 
Score
0
a c 273 U Graphics card
October 29, 2010 3:08:54 AM

_orbital_ said:
hmmm.. is it really? never experienced that kind of issue

Have a read through this thread and you will see that some people are having issues, unless of course you are of the opinion that because you haven't had a problem there is no problem, in which case Nvidia drivers have always been faultless because I've never had a problem with them. [:mousemonkey]
Score
0
a c 273 U Graphics card
October 29, 2010 3:54:51 AM

bystander said:
I was actually refering to this artical:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/3590

With both GPU's hitting over 90c that is the mother of all egg cookers I guess! :lol: 
Score
0
a c 217 U Graphics card
October 29, 2010 4:03:04 AM

Mousemonkey said:
With both GPU's hitting over 90c that is the mother of all egg cookers I guess! :lol: 


Look at what the VRM's are doing.
Score
0
!