HD 6870 vs EVGA GTX 460

[Motoledo]

First off, let me state that I'm only interested in doing moderate overclocking, and even then not immediately. I'm not terribly experienced at this so I'm enduring some confusion.

I'm having difficulty choosing between the following video cards:

Radeon HD 6870
EVGA GeForce GTX 460 (Fermi) Superclocked EE
EVGA GeForce GTX 460 (Fermi) FTW

I've gone over lots of reviews which show that the 6870 shows higher performance than the GTX 460 generally (at higher resolutions, which is what matters). However, I'm concerned with comparing with these specific factory-overclocked EVGA models, supposedly the best of the GTX 460 lot.

This review says "Meanwhile if you care about a balance of performance and power/heat/noise, then it’s the 6870 versus the EVGA GTX 460; and the EVGA card wins in an unfair fight." Presumably this is partly because it's already overclocked; however, this article and others state that the 6870 is one card that does get quite hot and really should have custom cooling, whereas presumably the EVGA wouldn't.

This article recommends a custom heatsink as well.

This gives a lot of FPS comparisons etc.

My questions:

#1: Considering that I'm only going to be doing moderate overclocking and the EVGA is already massively overclocked, which card is it worth it for me to buy? Keeping in mind the possible need for a custom heatsink on whichever card might need it (I can't find any good recommendations on that either).

#2: Another thing I am a little concerned about is noise. Some noise is fine, but not if it gets noticeably annoying. I've been trying to get noise comparisons between these two cards (as well as the Radeon HD 5850), but I'm turning up a blank. Anyone know?

 

[jasonp12]

1) 6870 owns all GTX 460s....the EVGA cannot be really overclocked anymore so its pointless really but it is a great card

anyways what kinda mobo are you running and CPU and what games?

because if your mobo only supports SLI and not crossfire id say get the SUperclocked EE

but if your mobo only supports Crossfire its a nobrainer get a 6870 (or a 6850 and overclock it)

if you never plan on SLI or Crossfire then go with the 6870.

but truthfully a 6850 is a better buy because it can be overclocked better then the 6870 and it runs like a charm

 

[Motoledo]

Fast!

I'm still assembling the rig... heading for i7-930 with ASUS P6X58D-E.

Games: Pretty much everything for the next 4 years. Will rebuild at the end of that. I might, in a year or so, try getting another one of whichever card I get right now to go CF/SLI.

The 6850 is pretty close. Know anything about the noise/heat levels for these cards, and any custom cooling necessary?

 

[notty22]

I would consider External exhaust cards with that motherboard, if you plan on running 2 cards eventually. There is no slot between the two pci-e 16 slots when dual slot cards are used.
The 6870's are all EE right now, and you won't have to o/c.

 

[Motoledo]

How can you tell if a card is EE? Just by looking for those grates on the back?

BTW, still no luck finding good noise/cooling info.

 

[17seconds]

Hardwarecanuks.com did a great article on it:
"We’ll start with the obvious: overclocking increases heat output and overclocking with higher than reference voltage impacts thermals even more. Unfortunately, without a custom cooler the HD 6870 gains heat at an almost alarming pace and believe it or not, the vapour chamber-totting XFX HD 6850 isn’t that far behind. If you are thinking of going for high clock frequencies with a HD 6800 series product, we highly recommend you look into upgrading the heatsink or at least buying a product with a higher end thermal solution."

 

[jasonp12]

yah those guys duno what theri saying u dont need aditional cooling unless you have shitty case

in my HAF 922 they dont get hot at all

 

[notty22]

yah those guys duno what theri saying u dont need aditional cooling unless you have shitty case

in my HAF 922 they dont get hot at all

They are referring to o/c gpu's. Since your not referencing what your talking about, we can only guess.
Most sites show the 6870 shooting up to high 80's when overclocking. Thats manageable , but getting hot.

 

[yesitsmario]

How can you tell if a card is EE? Just by looking for those grates on the back?

I too would like to know... anyone?

 

[EXT64]

If the fan is centrally located (mid way between the video connectors and the end of the card where the power connectors are), then it is not External Exhaust (EE). If it has a blower type fan near the power connectors, then it is likely *Mostly* EE (many cards, especially AMD where the eyefinity connectors take up space, have a mix of Internal and EE).

 

[EXT64]

Here's a review of the 460 Superclocked EE. HC is not very fond of the blower type fan used, it is not very good at cooling or noise:

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/34422-evga-gtx-460-1gb-superclocked-ee-external-exhaust-review.html

I'll get one of the FTW in a second. Also note that there is a FTW EE that may have a better cooler than the SC EE.

Anandtechs review of the 6850/70 includes a FTW EE:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/3987/amds-radeon-6870-6850-renewing-competition-in-the-midrange-market/7

 

[notty22]

Most 6850's are not EE cards, they vent the heat around the card in to the computer.

Most if not all 6870's are EE, they are mostly sealed and use a fan that pulls air inward and its forced out through the expansion slot vents, out of the computer.

There are pro's and con's to either cooling method. I'm running two cards that vent in my computer and its working fine. I have other exhaust fans, that are helping move air.

The EE cards sometimes run hotter, but what happens when you run two on top of each other in crossfire is the EE cards will actually keep the top card cooler than the other cooling method. But thats also dependent on the case/ cooling as well.

 

[17seconds]

I too would like to know... anyone?

It says it on the box, "EE".

 

[EXT64]

Well, that does work for EVGA cards I suppose :lol:

 

[17seconds]

This chart is from an overclocking study at Hardwarecanucks.com. It shows the average performance of the various cards when overclocked to the levels shown. Basically the bottom percentage is how the EVGA GTX460 FTW @850mhz (factory stock speed) compares. The conclusion is that the 460 FTW at it's stock speed beats a 6870 at stock and beats the 6850 when overclocked. The only time it loses is when the 6870 is pushed to it's maximum overclock at highest resolutions:

"Even when a HD 6870 is overclocked to 1GHz, the battle between it and the FTW flip flops from one card to the other depending on the game – there simply is no clear-cut winner"

"With a price of just $229 USD (and even less when you factor in the $10 - $15 mail in rebates being offered) this EVGA card is well within the financial reach of many gamers. This also makes it simply untouchable from a price / performance viewpoint."

"Performance-wise, our overclocked HD 6850 was able to hang with the HD 6870 in the vast majority of benchmarks but due to its lower shader count, there was sometimes a noticeable gap between the two cards. Upping clock speeds by applying additional voltage brought the HD 6850 in line with its more expensive brother but like all cards, this quickly leads to high heat and diminishing returns in overall framerate increases. Even XFX’s custom heatsink struggled to keep temperatures within check when the core was running in excess of 1Ghz."

"We will let the numbers do the talking here but want to add one thing: if you buy a card for its efficiency, don’t expect power consumption to be anywhere near that of the reference design once you overclock it. GDDR5 in particular can draw impressive amounts of power when pushed to its limits."

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/37499-hd-6870-hd-6850-vs-gtx-460-1gb-overclocking-study.html

 

[iam2thecrowe]

if you plan to go sli or crossfire later, its better to get a more generic card as it will be hard to find a second superclocked one to match what you have. I would get 6870 if i had a choice.

 

[SupahDonkeh]

6870 i'd say. Thing is, its a new card so drivers will come out that will make it faster, whereas the 460 is old and all the performance increasing drivers for it are all out.

 

[jasonp12]

geta 6850 the 6870 isnt much better tbh...

with voltage tweaking coming out for the 6850 the 6850 gets way better overclocks

 

[ares1214]

All said and done, i say get the 6850, this one:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121399&Tpk=6850%20asus

 

[Motoledo]

Would the 6850 also require a custom heatsink? Going over the links I mentioned and others and can't find good answer to this. Temps with 6870 don't appear that different, so I'm guessing yes...

 

[ares1214]

Would the 6850 also require a custom heatsink? Going over the links I mentioned and others and can't find good answer to this. Temps with 6870 don't appear that different, so I'm guessing yes...

What do you mean a "custom heatsink"? It has a custome heatsink already if thats what you mean?

 

[notty22]

Would the 6850 also require a custom heatsink? Going over the links I mentioned and others and can't find good answer to this. Temps with 6870 don't appear that different, so I'm guessing yes...

You would want to wait until the individual makers make a 6850 with a more complex HSF.
You don't want to buy a video card with the intent of buying a aftermarket heat sink.
Its just not cost effective.
If you buy a 6850, the overclock should be done with no voltage, or very little. Everything else just results in to excess heat. Without much stable gain. Getting it to 900, 920,940 without or very little voltage is much better than getting 980 with 1.3 or more.
The 6870's have a heat pipe, copper base plate heat sink under the hood. Its partly probably why its 60 dollars more.

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/HIS/Radeon_HD_6870_Turbo/4.html
HIS Radeon HD 6870 Turbo 1 GB

6850
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/HIS/Radeon_HD_6850/4.html

 

[jasonp12]

those are the HIS....the Asus and XFX 6850s have good cooling

however only the ASUS has good 6870 cooling the XFX 6870 is reference cooling

 

[jasonp12]

ohh btw so far my XFX 6850 is upto core clock @ 935mhz and mem clock at 1040mhz

thats with no voltage increase and temps never go above 60C on stress testing

 

[ares1214]

those are the HIS....the Asus and XFX 6850s have good cooling

however only the ASUS has good 6870 cooling the XFX 6870 is reference cooling

Yeah, the Asus keeps the 6870 quite a bit cooler than the reference, and for being the same cost and really not that far off from reference, i was a little disappointed in reference cooling Still very "cool" cards, so impressive cooling isnt necessary.