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GTX470 or HD6870?

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Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
November 1, 2010 3:44:31 PM

Hello,
I'm planning on buying a new PC and I just can't decide which card to pick, the HD6870 or the GTX470.
I have a Dell 2007WFP monitor (1680X1050), and from what I understand from the benchmarks, the 6870 is better, especially with this resolution.
However, I've also come across a lot of people saying that the GTX470 is better.
The price is not the issue by the way, he GTX470 costs only $20 more than the 6870.

Thanks!

More about : gtx470 hd6870

November 1, 2010 3:53:52 PM

Benchmark Reviews shows that the GTX470 is still faster than the HD 6870. And if you're not using an AMD cpu and northbridge mobo, you're better off with a GTX470. Developers always consider Nvidia when creating games, so I'd stick with the 470 simply for compatibility reasons.
a b U Graphics card
November 1, 2010 4:08:29 PM

GTX470 due to the increased speed. Only slightly better but still a difference.
Related resources
a c 592 U Graphics card
November 1, 2010 4:12:02 PM

Power Consumption
6870: 295 watts
470: 411 watts

Temps
6870: 68c
470 88c

Noise
6870: 41dB
470: 46dB

CODMW2
6870: 117 fps
470: 112 fps

Battlefield BC2
6870: 46 fps
470: 44 fps

Dirt2
6870: 70 fps
470: 62 fps

Far Cry2
6870: 69 fps
470: 71 fps

Metro 2033
6870: 22 fps
470: 21 fps

Anno 1404
6870: 66 fps
470: 58 fps

Crysis WH
6870: 44 fps
470: 42 fps

3D Mark Vantage
6870: P17387
470: P16313

http://www.guru3d.com/article/radeon-hd-6850-6870-revie...
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
November 1, 2010 4:16:39 PM

17seconds said:
Power Consumption
6870: 295 watts
470: 411 watts

Temps
6870: 68c
470 88c

Noise
6870: 41dB
470: 46dB

CODMW2
6870: 117 fps
470: 112 fps

Battlefield BC2
6870: 46 fps
470: 44 fps

Dirt2
6870: 70 fps
470: 62 fps

Far Cry2
6870: 69 fps
470: 71 fps

Metro 2033
6870: 22 fps
470: 21 fps

Anno 1404
6870: 66 fps
470: 58 fps

Crysis WH
6870: 44 fps
470: 42 fps

3D Mark Vantage
6870: P17387
470: P16313

http://www.guru3d.com/article/radeon-hd-6850-6870-revie...

Based on this, it appears that the 6870 is much better than the GTX470.
Why does everybody keep saying the GTX470 is better?
a c 592 U Graphics card
November 1, 2010 4:24:09 PM

Two different reviews yield two different results. If you play games that feature PhysX, the choice should be GTX470.

Power Consumption
6870: 354 watts
470: 382 watts

Temps
6870: 83c
470 85c

1680x1050
CODMW2
6870: 90 fps
470: 99 fps

Just Cause 2
6870: 55 fps
470: 57 fps

Res. Evil 5
6870: 110 fps
470: 118 fps

Far Cry2
6870: 94 fps
470: 101 fps

Metro 2033
6870: 35 fps
470: 37 fps

Batman Arkham Asylum
6870: 116 fps
470: 149 fps

Crysis WH
6870: 47 fps
470: 50 fps

3D Mark Vantage
6870: P17242
470: P16844

http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/amd_6800series/
a b U Graphics card
November 1, 2010 4:27:45 PM

I say neither. The 6850 overclocks to or past the 6870, as the 6870 doesnt OC much. The 470 is far less efficient than a 460. So IMO, the real debate is the 6850 vs 460. Between those 2 Id give the narrow win to the 6850, due to only needing 1 6 pin, new so performance will get better, yet already has slightly better performance, and its cheaper.
a b U Graphics card
November 1, 2010 4:29:27 PM

Pick the card that has the highest FPS for the games you play.
a b U Graphics card
November 1, 2010 4:53:39 PM

Quote:
So, what would you do?
I'm thinking GTX470 because of the physx, but on the other hand (allegedly), the GTX470's power consumption and temperature is significantly higher.


Physx TBH really isnt that useful. Its not used in many games at all, the games it is used in, most dont have much of it, and it is only really used in 2 year old games from the "TWIMTBP" era. Most games now are going to be coming with AMD coding unless Nvidia payed specifically for it, IE Hawx 2 and Crysis 2. One feature Nvidia does have you should be more concerned with is CUDA. If you dont use CUDA, than neither company has a standout feature than makes one better than the other. AMD has APP, Eyefinity, MLAA, amongst other things, and given time might develope their own CUDA. But like i said, if you want Nvidia, get the 460. Otherwise, get the 6850, which is the better card IMO.
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
November 1, 2010 5:02:02 PM

ares1214 said:
Physx TBH really isnt that useful. Its not used in many games at all, the games it is used in, most dont have much of it, and it is only really used in 2 year old games from the "TWIMTBP" era. Most games now are going to be coming with AMD coding unless Nvidia payed specifically for it, IE Hawx 2 and Crysis 2. One feature Nvidia does have you should be more concerned with is CUDA. If you dont use CUDA, than neither company has a standout feature than makes one better than the other. AMD has APP, Eyefinity, MLAA, amongst other things, and given time might develope their own CUDA. But like i said, if you want Nvidia, get the 460. Otherwise, get the 6850, which is the better card IMO.

No, I don't use CUDA (at least not that I'm aware of lol).
I don't really get it, why would I want to get the 6850 instead of the 6870?
Is it really possible to oc it to the exact performance level as the 6870?
a c 592 U Graphics card
November 1, 2010 5:17:59 PM

Quote:
So, what would you do?
I'm thinking GTX470 because of the physx, but on the other hand (allegedly), the GTX470's power consumption and temperature is significantly higher.

When overclocking one of the slower cards to meet the performance of a stock GTX470, power consumption differences even out dramatically. At stock speeds, the 470 will cost you about $20 more per year, compared to a 6870 with heavy gaming (5 days a week, 4 hours per day).

Heat differences are a more complex issue. The stock cooler on a reference GTX470 vents heat outside the case, so there is minimal impact on overall system temperatures. However, several companies offer very good custom heatsinks, including the MSI Twin Frozr, Gigabyte Superoverclock, Zotac AMP, etc.; which keep the card much cooler and quieter, but vent heat inside the case. Generally this is not an issue, and the temp of the actual GPU can be 10 -20c cooler. In general, since the GTX470 has been out longer, there are more custom options available than the just released 6870. Many reviews, in fact, suggest that the 6870 would really benefit from custom cooling.

As far as PhysX goes, take it from someone who actually plays games that feature PhysX (Unreal Tournament III, Metro 2033, Dragon Age: Origins, Mass Effect 2); it's a blast to see debris and body parts go flying when you frag someone!
a b U Graphics card
November 1, 2010 5:19:16 PM

Quote:
No, I don't use CUDA (at least not that I'm aware of lol).
I don't really get it, why would I want to get the 6850 instead of the 6870?
Is it really possible to oc it to the exact performance level as the 6870?


Ok, think of it like this. The 6870 can OC to about 1000 MHz tops. The 6850 can too, maybe a tiny bit higher. The shader deficiency is negligible, and yes, they will both perform about the same, yet the 6850 will use less power, cost less, and maybe run cooler depending on the card.
a b U Graphics card
November 1, 2010 5:20:34 PM

17seconds said:
When overclocking one of the slower cards to meet the performance of a stock GTX470, power consumption differences even out dramatically. At stock speeds, the 470 will cost you about $20 more per year, compared to a 6870 with heavy gaming (5 days a week, 4 hours per day).

Heat differences are a more complex issue. The stock cooler on a reference GTX470 vents heat outside the case, so there is minimal impact on overall system temperatures. However, several companies offer very good custom heatsinks, including the MSI Twin Frozr, Gigabyte Superoverclock, Zotac AMP, etc.; which keep the card much cooler and quieter, but vent heat inside the case. Generally this is not an issue, and the temp of the actual GPU can be 10 -20c cooler. In general, since the GTX470 has been out longer, there are more custom options available than the just released 6870. Many reviews, in fact, suggest that the 6870 would really benefit from custom cooling.

As far as PhysX goes, take it from someone who actually plays games that feature PhysX (Unreal Tournament III, Metro 2033, Dragon Age: Origins, Mass Effect 2); it's a blast to see debris and body parts go flying when you frag someone!


I had physx before, so i know. It doesnt really add much of anything noticable, and if it does, it seems unrealistic.
a c 592 U Graphics card
November 1, 2010 5:45:21 PM

"So then, I have to admit to like what I tested today. Overall gaming with PhysX adds a much more immersive experience to gaming."

"So in closing, hat's off to NVIDIA for what they did here. The features are good, your options in choosing whatever PhysX solution you want to compute in is wide-spread and then the gaming user experience is just great. If you own a capable card; heck, it's free to even try-out. The introduction of PhysX is additional value, no-matter how you look at it."

"PhysX is exciting technology."
http://www.guru3d.com/article/physx-by-nvidia-review/

"Turning on PhysX isn't necessary for gameplay, and you'll never miss it if you don't see the effects. However, when PhysX is enabled, it adds superlative nuances and really creates some “wow” moments. The chunky explosions, cloth effects, paper, fog, and environmental detail enhancements are very cool."
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/batman-arkham-asylu...

"Cryostasis utilize the PhysX from Nvidia to improve the overall ambience of the game. At times it is actually difficult to determine if some objects are real. The PhysX actually helps with object physics in the game, making the snow and terrain smoother. It is real hard to say that you can make compacted snow look colder. But with PhysX on the snow does actually look more like the deep, tightly packed snow that you see on the Discovery Channel or HDNet."

"The water affects are greatly improved with the PhysX on as well. The water will actually collect in warmed areas and pools will form around objects. These pools can even be disturbed by moving an object out of the pool or into it. Combined with the Thermodynamics the game allows for the same area to appear differently as with a formerly frozen towel being completely melted after the room has been warmed. Even when enemies are killed the liquid environment acts as it would in a natural seeing. The affects from PhysX can also be seen in the way objects seem to float in the water or sink in the water depending on their size or even what type of material they are."
http://www.motherboards.org/articles/guides/1507_1.html
November 1, 2010 6:00:57 PM

get a 6850 and OC it best choice youll make
a b U Graphics card
November 1, 2010 6:47:10 PM

17seconds said:
"So then, I have to admit to like what I tested today. Overall gaming with PhysX adds a much more immersive experience to gaming."

"So in closing, hat's off to NVIDIA for what they did here. The features are good, your options in choosing whatever PhysX solution you want to compute in is wide-spread and then the gaming user experience is just great. If you own a capable card; heck, it's free to even try-out. The introduction of PhysX is additional value, no-matter how you look at it."

"PhysX is exciting technology."
http://www.guru3d.com/article/physx-by-nvidia-review/

"Turning on PhysX isn't necessary for gameplay, and you'll never miss it if you don't see the effects. However, when PhysX is enabled, it adds superlative nuances and really creates some “wow” moments. The chunky explosions, cloth effects, paper, fog, and environmental detail enhancements are very cool."
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/batman-arkham-asylu...

"Cryostasis utilize the PhysX from Nvidia to improve the overall ambience of the game. At times it is actually difficult to determine if some objects are real. The PhysX actually helps with object physics in the game, making the snow and terrain smoother. It is real hard to say that you can make compacted snow look colder. But with PhysX on the snow does actually look more like the deep, tightly packed snow that you see on the Discovery Channel or HDNet."

"The water affects are greatly improved with the PhysX on as well. The water will actually collect in warmed areas and pools will form around objects. These pools can even be disturbed by moving an object out of the pool or into it. Combined with the Thermodynamics the game allows for the same area to appear differently as with a formerly frozen towel being completely melted after the room has been warmed. Even when enemies are killed the liquid environment acts as it would in a natural seeing. The affects from PhysX can also be seen in the way objects seem to float in the water or sink in the water depending on their size or even what type of material they are."
http://www.motherboards.org/articles/guides/1507_1.html


Its entirely based on opinion. I can show a Mafia 2 Physx demonstration. I think its dreadfully unrealistic, and it looks like they are shooting rocks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONQfbGBtitY

Like i said as well, its also not that used, nor used much where it is used.
a b U Graphics card
November 1, 2010 6:47:56 PM

jasonp12 said:
get a 6850 and OC it best choice youll make


Its not like something like the 460 is a bad choice, i just think the 6850 is the slightly better card. Hard to make a bad choice between the 2 of them.
November 1, 2010 6:56:39 PM

agreed but 6850 is cheaper and better....not that the 460 is bad but the 6850 currently just beats it for the price
a b U Graphics card
November 1, 2010 7:01:40 PM

jasonp12 said:
agreed but 6850 is cheaper and better....not that the 460 is bad but the 6850 currently just beats it for the price


That i agree with.
November 1, 2010 7:22:17 PM

my 6850 is upto 950mhz core and 1040mhz mem w/o a Voltage increase runs at 59C at 99% Load
a b U Graphics card
November 1, 2010 7:25:06 PM

jasonp12 said:
my 6850 is upto 950mhz core and 1040mhz mem w/o a Voltage increase runs at 59C at 99% Load

Do you have the Asus DCU?
November 1, 2010 7:41:21 PM

For 1680X1050, I'd go with the 6850 DCU version. At stock it would be fine for your resolution, but if you want more juice, it's a good overclocker.
January 3, 2011 3:27:23 AM

hi every body
i like buy vga cart and i dont now choise which one between hd 6870 and gtx 470
which one is powerfull in the Tessellation mode and the Tessellation is important or not in the feuchere games?
January 10, 2011 2:59:17 AM

Overclocking a GTX 470 is nice too. I have no heat problems or power issues. I run a q6600 at 2.62 and I oc'd the GTX from 607mhz Gpu and 1674mhz mem clock to 770mhz gpu and 1850mhz memory to get a 3dmark 11 score of P4046. All games run 1920x1200 fully maxed every setting at 40-70fps. Great card and will stomp the 6870 when oc'd and has a huge advantage with tessellation featured games like hawx 2.
a b U Graphics card
January 10, 2011 4:01:02 AM

i'd get the 6870 and oc it to speeds that are faster than the 470. it's still cheaper and would still pack a punch at your resolution.
a b U Graphics card
January 10, 2011 9:36:30 AM

Ford75chero said:
Overclocking a GTX 470 is nice too. I have no heat problems or power issues. I run a q6600 at 2.62 and I oc'd the GTX from 607mhz Gpu and 1674mhz mem clock to 770mhz gpu and 1850mhz memory to get a 3dmark 11 score of P4046. All games run 1920x1200 fully maxed every setting at 40-70fps. Great card and will stomp the 6870 when oc'd and has a huge advantage with tessellation featured games like hawx 2.


Hawx 2 is a horrible example...unless they improved something, a GTS 450 can beat a 5870 in that game...
a b U Graphics card
January 10, 2011 10:25:12 AM

Never have there been so many choices at such resonable prices!
The pros for Nvidia cards (460, 470) is the fact that Nvidia often seems to be the sponser of games and so gets favoritism

The pros for AMD cards is that the price/performance is pretty impressive.

If you have an AMD processor I would go with the AMD cards for the option of XFire

Given your resolution I would actually be looking at the GTX460 or AMD 6850 due to the fact taht you don't need more power than that, so unless you plan on getting a new monitor with 1920 x 1080 some time soon, any more power is redundant.

When it comes to the battle between GTX460 and AMD 6850 I think the AMD card is the winner, the fact it OC's well is a bonus.

If you were going for the more powerful cards, it depends on how much more juice you need. The GTX 470 is faster, therefore I would consider it the winner against the 6870 especially given that the 6870 is not a great OCer.
Of course, from personal opinion I would go with the 6870 because I do not like the noise/heat/power of the GTX 470 design, but that is purely personal feelings and very subjective. As others have said, there are lots of custom cards around for the 470 to help deal with the heat/noise issues but this may bump the cost even more which makes them not worth it.

Another advantage of the 6850/6870 is that they are newer design which is always nice

As for PhysX, it's kind of like an SSD, some swear by it saying how much better things are with it, but others feel it just is not worth considering. Again, my personal opinion is that PhysX is nothing great (coincidently I also feel SSDs are not worth the cost). The AMD 5xxx series was my first non Nvidia card and I bought it because at the time the GTX460 was not around. I have to admit I do prefer to go with Nvidia, but with the cards around at the moment I think AMD have the edge and I don't let my preference to a brand dictate my wallet.

Of course, if in no rush, wait until the GTX 560 later this month, it will either be the card to get or will decrease costs for other cards if lucky
January 16, 2011 12:41:02 AM

ares1214 said:
Hawx 2 is a horrible example...unless they improved something, a GTS 450 can beat a 5870 in that game...


Hawx2 has tessellation which is Nvidias strong suit with newer cards. It is not a horrible example just a game suited better to nvidias advances. It actually looks beautiful. Tessellation is a process of making things farther away have less polygons (less are needed for smaller less detailed distant items) and increase the number of polygons up close getting rid of more jagged edges, increasing detail and realism while IMPROVING speed and efficiency (compared to the same quality without tessellation). Through time there have always been games favoring one brand or other but right now with this new tech and the fact 3dmark11 incorporated it into the benchmark, I think it speaks volumes for what this new feature is going to mean in graphics. Biggest difference since dx9 imo. Nvidia may use electricity and create heat but last time I looked the person rocking a gtx 470 or 480 wasnt counting the pennies per month difference in using these cards because they are probably oc'd anyways (gtx 460 plays everything at great frame rates) and only spent the money for a better 3dmark score and maybe a bit of future proofing for upcoming games.

my 3dMark 11 scores. I got a q6600 in a Dell Xps 720 oc'd slightly to 2.62 with 6 gigs of dominator memory. I have a GTX 470 by MSI reference clocked at 607mhz gpu and 1674mhz memory in Ntune. I Oc'd to 770mhz and 1850mhz (so far, havent crashed from gpu yet).


P4046


Dell XPS 720
Q6600 at 2.619ghz
GTX470 MSI
gpu 770mhz
mem clock 1850mhz
6gb Corsair Dominator 800mhz w/tightened timings


Graphics score: 3016
Physics score: 2613
Combined score: 2613
Grapics test: 20.54fps
Graphics test 2: 21.12fps
Graphics test 3: 29.4fps
Graphics test 4: 15.34fps
Physics test: 9.58fps
Combined test: 12.15fps


is this a fair score for an old slightly updated Dell (new gtx 470, and 4more gb ram)? Im sure there are faster out there but I run my 28" Hans G at 1920x1200 at ultra on everything at 40-60fps on every game I play with full AA and AF. Stock clock on GTX 470 and Q6600 scored P3436 (COD BO, DIRT3, NFSHP, SC2, FC2, Mafia 2, CODMW2) so Im happy what everyone else get?

PS smoked my buddies stock i7-920 and radeon 6870. He got P3900 after dropping 1700 bones :) 
a c 216 U Graphics card
January 16, 2011 3:36:23 AM

I have used 470's and I'd like to give you a little warning about them.

The 470 in the comparisons may show it louder by not so much compared to the 6870, but while doing that comparison, the 470 will be near 90C, which is about as hot as you can let it get.

What happened to me, and likely to many others, is if your ambient temperature goes up, if your air flow isn't working great, or you run multiple monitors, you may find the temperature goes up, at which point, it starts to get extremely loud. This is because the card runs near it's max temperature during those tests, while the 6870 has more head room on the temp, and doesn't have to ramp up the fan speed to control it when not in optimal situations.

I'm not a big fan of the 470. If you are going to be playing games with GPU accelerated PhysX support, it may be better for you, but there aren't a lot of those, so make sure that is something you even have use for before you make a choice based on that.

If you do want an Nvidia card, you might want to see about the 560 which is about to be released, I believe.
January 16, 2011 5:48:24 AM

Cheapest 6870 on newegg is $225 and $205 after rebate. Cheapest 470 I see is $250 by Asus. Anyone else see a cheaper 470? What are the prices going to be like when the 560 is released?
a b U Graphics card
January 16, 2011 9:44:36 AM

the card to get right now, imho, is the 6870.

the card/s to get the in the future, are the 1gb variations of the 6950/6970. i sensing a 1gb 6950 would spank a gtx560.
!