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Nvidia - PhysX ATI - ?

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November 6, 2010 2:02:41 PM



I am running AMD Hexacore and is about the upgrade the Graphic card. After going through several threads one question still remains unclear to me..

If Nvidia has PhysX ,,, what does ATI offer? ( and I am not asking about any Third Party PhysX alternatives)

I hv seen the videos on the net which shows a comparison video with PhysX ON and OFF. With PhysX we are able to see the Particle Physics coming into play, glass pieces flying clearly, cloths getting torn off etc. which is something I definitely do not want to miss in my games (if game supports it).

With ATI not having PhysX ( as Nvidia has Patent on it) does it mean I simply miss all those particle effects even if other features are great in it?

More about : nvidia physx ati

a b U Graphics card
November 6, 2010 2:31:28 PM

pretty much you don't get it, though at the same time there is a handful of games (a bit more than a dozen) that use the GPU accelerated PhysX
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a c 622 U Graphics card
a c 414 Î Nvidia
November 6, 2010 5:51:02 PM

PhysX is not available on a card from AMD. PhysX is often discounted when buyers make a choice between AMD or Nvidia. In my opinion, PhysX makes enough difference to justify the Nvidia option. When you are able to play games in PhysX, as the videos show, games are just more fun to play. Any game using the Unreal 3 engine will utilize GPU-based PhysX very well (Unreal Tournament III, Mass Effect 2, Dragon Age: Origins, Gears of War, Mafia 2, etc.).
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a c 217 U Graphics card
a c 81 Î Nvidia
November 6, 2010 6:15:50 PM

17seconds said:
PhysX is not available on a card from AMD. PhysX is often discounted when buyers make a choice between AMD or Nvidia. In my opinion, PhysX makes enough difference to justify the Nvidia option. When you are able to play games in PhysX, as the videos show, games are just more fun to play. Any game using the Unreal 3 engine will utilize GPU-based PhysX very well (Unreal Tournament III, Mass Effect 2, Dragon Age: Origins, Gears of War, Mafia 2, etc.).


A common misconception.

Most "physX" games do not utilize GPU accelerated PhysX. If the game does not use GPU accelerated PhysX, then both ATI/AMD and Nvidia systems look and act the same.

ATI users can use PhysX, they just can't use GPU accelerated PhysX.

The vast majority of PhysX games are NOT GPU accelerated PhysX capible.

Many of the few (about 15) GPU accelerated PhysX titles, have fairly minimal difference between with and without.

Some of the more notable GPU accelerated PhysX titles that look a lot better, require a dedicated physX card in order to see the higher detailed PhysX effects at all (for example Dark Void locks medium and high physX without a dedicated card), and others just need one for decent frames.

I personally have 1 games that uses GPU accelerated PhysX. Sacred 2. I think the leaves look kind of cool with it, I think the spell effects look worse with it on. Batman AA is probably the best example of GPU accelerated PhysX game, but I don't personally own it.

If you have some GPU accelerated PhysX games, you might want to see about a PhysX GPU, otherwise, I wouldn't worry about it.

One thing ATI's new cards have that Nvidia doesn't, is Morph AA, which allows you to have AA in games that can't normally support AA. I have more games that fall into that catagory that I really wish I had AA with.

Edit: I use SLI 470's, and I do like them a lot. I'm just letting you know about PhysX and the reality of that feature. I also have played a few recent games that I could not get AA to work with at all, and really wish I had that one feature from the new ATI cards.
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a c 217 U Graphics card
a c 81 Î Nvidia
November 6, 2010 8:36:48 PM

XD_dued said:
http://www.nzone.com/object/nzone_physxgames_home.html

look at this...gpu accelerated physx supported games. There's so many!


I assume that's sarcasm :p  That's 16 games. Although there is at least 1 game not on that list. Metro 2033.
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November 7, 2010 3:12:06 AM



So NVIDIA uses CPU accelerated or GPU accelerated ?



Also I read AMD saying that PhysX is going to die soon. Is it really true or is just the cry of someone who does not have it ?

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a c 217 U Graphics card
a c 81 Î Nvidia
November 7, 2010 4:07:40 AM

asheesh1_2000 said:
So NVIDIA uses CPU accelerated or GPU accelerated ?



Also I read AMD saying that PhysX is going to die soon. Is it really true or is just the cry of someone who does not have it ?


Nvidia can use GPU accelerated physX if the game supports it, which it does in about ~17 games.

If the game uses normal CPU physX, then it doesn't matter what you have.

There is a good chance it will eventually die off, once someone comes up with a good developement kit that revolves around OpenCL. Since both companies new cards support OpenCL, it is likely what the developers would gravitate to it.
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a c 272 U Graphics card
a c 171 Î Nvidia
November 7, 2010 4:14:52 AM

asheesh1_2000 said:
Also I read AMD saying that PhysX is going to die soon. Is it really true or is just the cry of someone who does not have it ?

AMD have been saying that for the last couple of years because they couldn't afford to buy Ageia.
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a b U Graphics card
November 7, 2010 7:32:12 AM

$150 million for 17 games with exclusive gpu physics? If you count nVidia's bribe money on top (sorry I meant development incentives), you're looking at $10m a game - most of which are unheard of nothing titles that didn't sell well.

Ageia were laughing all the way to the bank, which incidentally was the whole point of Ageia, they existed to be bought. AMD realised that Havok was the superior choice, along with everybody else.
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a c 272 U Graphics card
a c 171 Î Nvidia
November 7, 2010 7:42:02 AM

And Havok is used so much it's truly underwhelming.
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November 7, 2010 9:48:54 AM



So, Nvidia uses GPU based PhysX which is just used in some 20 games or so.

With CPY Physx , Nvidia and ATI perform more or less same and we have this wave that soon PhysX might be off the market and open source API might replace it.

With all this I think with such a low prize in ATI as compared to Nvidia and just missing on PhysX which is not used widely and as PhysX does not have a sound future, ATI turns out to be a better part of the bargain.


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November 12, 2010 6:02:52 AM





Any guesses what will be the cost of HD 6970 ?
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a b U Graphics card
November 12, 2010 6:42:45 AM

Ageia were laughing all the way to the bank, which incidentally was the whole point of Ageia, they existed to be bought.[b said:
AMD realised that Havok was the superior choice, along with everybody else.]Ageia were laughing all the way to the bank, which incidentally was the whole point of Ageia, they existed to be bought. AMD realised that Havok was the superior choice, along with everybody else.
[/b]

what page of the AMD/ATI fanboy manifesto was this located?

amd already dismissed havok, hence the move to bullet.
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a b U Graphics card
November 12, 2010 7:00:35 AM

^ a perfect example is sacred 2 with gpu physx on/off..

of course some dumb ati fan boy would rant on "how unrealistic the leaves are when casting a spell" or whatever. as if they'd actually see someone cast a spell in real life.
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a c 622 U Graphics card
a c 414 Î Nvidia
November 12, 2010 4:36:42 PM

The reason I usually mention PhysX is I recently upgraded my graphics and realized that I could enable hardware PhysX in Unreal Tournament III. I was blown away by the difference it made. PhysX just adds more fun. Period. There's just no comparison, if you play one of those games on AMD, you are missing out.

As far as it dying, one of the biggest recent releases, Mafia 2, was also the first to implement APEX PhysX, which is a highly complex version that is deeply integrated into the coding. From what I have seen, Mafia 2 very dramatically shows the potential of well-implemented PhysX. For a true gamer, this is technology that we should be supporting and hoping will expand.

This page includes video showing the difference that PhysX makes in Mafia 2:
http://physxinfo.com/news/tag/mafia-2/
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a c 217 U Graphics card
a c 81 Î Nvidia
November 12, 2010 6:23:21 PM

17seconds said:
The reason I usually mention PhysX is I recently upgraded my graphics and realized that I could enable hardware PhysX in Unreal Tournament III. I was blown away by the difference it made. PhysX just adds more fun. Period. There's just no comparison, if you play one of those games on AMD, you are missing out.

As far as it dying, one of the biggest recent releases, Mafia 2, was also the first to implement APEX PhysX, which is a highly complex version that is deeply integrated into the coding. From what I have seen, Mafia 2 very dramatically shows the potential of well-implemented PhysX. For a true gamer, this is technology that we should be supporting and hoping will expand.

This page includes video showing the difference that PhysX makes in Mafia 2:
http://physxinfo.com/news/tag/mafia-2/


I do use Nvidia right now and can use PhysX. This isn't a matter of fanboyism, but I disagree. I hope, and expect there will be an SDK developed that will do the same things as PhysX, but using OpenCL. The big advantage would be that both companies support it, and OpenCL is just as capible of doing the job.

Given that OpenCL does exist now, I do expect PhysX to eventually die out, but it may take a while, because someone needs to develope and alternative for OpenCL first.
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a c 217 U Graphics card
a c 81 Î Nvidia
November 12, 2010 6:24:34 PM

wh3resmycar said:
^ a perfect example is sacred 2 with gpu physx on/off..

of course some dumb ati fan boy would rant on "how unrealistic the leaves are when casting a spell" or whatever. as if they'd actually see someone cast a spell in real life.


Sacred 2 is my only PhysX game, and the leaves do seem cool, what I don't like is all the sparklies of the spell casting. I think the non-physX spells look nicer, and like the leaves blowing around.
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November 12, 2010 7:44:31 PM




So which one of two... GTX 460 1GB OR HD6870?

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a c 622 U Graphics card
a c 414 Î Nvidia
November 12, 2010 8:15:58 PM

asheesh1_2000 said:
So which one of two... GTX 460 1GB OR HD6870?

If PhysX is the determining factor, then check the list of games that offer it. If you play one of those games, get the GTX460.
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a c 172 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
November 12, 2010 8:44:13 PM

physx is like the old 3dfx glide. a custom API that the company used to try to make people buy their 3d cards for games that would only run well when using it. But gues what....open standards opengl and directx came along in the windows environment and that was it for the 3dfx only glide API and soon after that, the end of 3dfx. I expect the same to happen for physx and it would be stupid of game developers not to use an open standard for gpu accelerated physics as they are limiting their audience because people still buy ATI cards regardless of physx. The hardware in ATI/amd cards is capable of physx, they are just restricted from using it. Dont get me wrong, im no amd/ati fanboy, the last 2 cards ive had were from nvidia, i just really dont like software using proprietry crap when there are better alternatives around that will work for everyone.
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November 12, 2010 9:56:54 PM

17seconds said:
If PhysX is the determining factor, then check the list of games that offer it. If you play one of those games, get the GTX460.


Actually, depending on the resolution and the game, a GTX 460 may not be able to sustain good frame rates with PhysX on. There is data on this, but I can't remember where - it might have been a Mafia 2 review.
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a c 622 U Graphics card
a c 414 Î Nvidia
November 12, 2010 10:17:48 PM

lucas1024 said:
Actually, depending on the resolution and the game, a GTX 460 may not be able to sustain good frame rates with PhysX on. There is data on this, but I can't remember where - it might have been a Mafia 2 review.


Both of these articles review the PhysX in Mafia 2 using a GTX460.

"Even the more affordable GeForce GTX 460 can handle PhysX at resolutions such as 1680x1050 or lower when coupled with a fast enough processor."
http://www.techspot.com/review/312-mafia2-performance/

And a little more info to add to the discussion:
"Nvidia is due for a big PhysX overhaul and launching PhysX 3.0 really can't come soon enough. This update is rumoured to give better performance and more effective CPU threading instead of just requiring mountains of MHz. As we've seen, all the available CPU cores are currently not being used as much as possible,. This of course suits Nvidia and we realise the performance gulf helps sell the GPU PhysX argument."
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/graphics/2010/09/03/ma...
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November 12, 2010 10:29:16 PM

17seconds said:
Both of these articles review the PhysX in Mafia 2 using a GTX460.

"Even the more affordable GeForce GTX 460 can handle PhysX at resolutions such as 1680x1050 or lower when coupled with a fast enough processor."
http://www.techspot.com/review/312-mafia2-performance/

And a little more info to add to the discussion:
"Nvidia is due for a big PhysX overhaul and launching PhysX 3.0 really can't come soon enough. This update is rumoured to give better performance and more effective CPU threading instead of just requiring mountains of MHz. As we've seen, all the available CPU cores are currently not being used as much as possible,. This of course suits Nvidia and we realise the performance gulf helps sell the GPU PhysX argument."
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/graphics/2010/09/03/ma...


Thanks, that's not exactly the review I saw, but it is similar and it highlights my point - with PhysX on the GTX 460 barely breaks over 30fps at 1680x1050 and is below 30fps at 1920x1200, while with PhysX off the numbers are 67 and 56 fps respectively. The drops in fps is significant and - depending on your tolerance - it might be considered unacceptable.
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a c 217 U Graphics card
a c 81 Î Nvidia
November 12, 2010 10:59:13 PM

17seconds said:
If PhysX is the determining factor, then check the list of games that offer it. If you play one of those games, get the GTX460.


Just be sure you are looking at the right list. Most PhysX lists that show 100+ games are mostly run on the CPU and perform the same on either graphics card. The list you want will be about 15-20 games total, with GPU accelerated PhysX.
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a b U Graphics card
November 13, 2010 12:11:59 AM

17seconds said:
This page includes video showing the difference that PhysX makes in Mafia 2:http://physxinfo.com/news/tag/mafia-2/


I see nothing new from the days I used Nvidia. Smoke an shattered glass effects here and there. Too little IMO for such a decrease in my fps.

Tried hard to find out what song was that one but eventually found it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPGQuaD6ggs
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November 19, 2010 8:09:21 AM

Best answer selected by asheesh1_2000.
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a c 272 U Graphics card
a c 171 Î Nvidia
November 19, 2010 8:34:55 AM

This topic has been closed by Mousemonkey
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