The quotes below constitute the previous messages that have brought is to this point... not required reading if you don't care. To skip to the current conversation, click here
Purpose/Software:
My primary focus is gaming. I'd like to run World of Warcraft, Starcraft II, the Call of Duty: Black Ops, Battlefield 2, Battlefield Bad Company 2, etcetera etcetera. Essentially all the latest and greatest. 1920 x 1200 or 1920 x 1080, I'm not sure.
I also dabble in Photoshop. Here I need to emphasize dabble - the piece of crap I'm on right now handles what I do, so I think anything that can run those games will be fine for Photoshop.
I also have several messenger clients always on, including mIRC, MSN, and GTalk, and probably Ventrilo. Firefox and Windows Media Player are also frequently in use.
So we're looking at World of Warcraft (Or any of the others), Ventrilo, mIRC, MSN, GTalk, Firefox, Windows Media Player, whatever anti-virus software, task manger (AnVir), and potentially Photoshop, all running simultaneously, with a fair amount of headroom to spare if I need to do something else.
CPU
I definitely want to go with Intel for the processor.
Overclocking is a possibility, but I have some concerns about stability.
I was thinking about going with the i7-2600K, but from what I understand the actual "enthusiast/ higher end" Sandy Bridge chips aren't coming out for half a year. I can wait that long if it's the right move. The article here at Tom's says:
" This time is different. Sandy Bridge is going to have to swim its way upstream, surfacing on the flagship LGA 2011 interface in the second half of this year for the real workstation-oriented aficionados. "
I'm assuming he means that on the low end, the 1155 sockets are going to replace the 1156 sockets, and on the higher end, the 2011 sockets are going to replace the 1336 sockets.
Probably want a CPU fan as well, just for the sake of making sure it stays cold.
Graphics
I'm leaning twoard Nvidia, but that's not set in stone. I'm thinking about starting off with a single GTX 570, and using SLI to add 1 or 2 more if it starts to slow down into the future.
Motherboard
- Room for future SLI
- I would like USB 3.0, however this is not really a huge sticking point, seeing as the number of devices that utilize USB 3 are slim to none.
- SATA III 6gb/s would be nice to have. From what I understand the current 7200 RPM HDDs can't use up the throughput of SATA II 3gb/s entirely, but I believe the higher speeds of 6gb/s would benefit solid state drives.
- I'm also going to need a way to get wireless N. I don't know if the best way to do this is with some sort of card inside the case that has antennas sticking out the back, or if I should use some sort of USB device. Obviously I'd like to use wired were I can but sometimes you just need to go wireless.
- I wouldn't call myself a huge audiophile, but I do enjoy high quality sound and I would like to get it where possible. From what I understand most motherboards already have capability for Dolby 7.1 and all that fancy jazz, so this shouldn't be an issue. I don't care enough to justify a sound card. I am thinking about getting some decent headphones (AX 720 as recommended by the Xbox 360 crowd at avsforum), so I'll probably need an optical out, but this isn't make or break.
- I don't think total number of USB 2.0 ports is a huge deal. I doubt I could use all of them anyway, and USB hubs are cheap. I have plenty laying around already.
Case
For the case, I'd like to go full tower. There are several factors that went into this decision:
- Expandability. I can keep throwing in terabyte drives as I need them.
- Space. GTX 570s aren't small cards. SLI is a probability in the future.
- Cooling. Overclocking - I don't want to end up burning out my hardware for an extra gigahertz that I does nothing except increase the size of my e-penis. If I do decide I want that extra gigahertz, I want it cold. As always, cooler hardware is better, and will live longer. Seeing as this is going to be one hell of a system, I want it to stay colder than an arctic winter... on air cooling. This build needs to last. Full tower = better cooling.
- Ease of assembly. I'm not incompetent by any means, but I realize that bigger cases are easier for first timers to get everything in to all nice and right. No point in hassling myself.
- Sturdy. This house is somewhat of a zoo. I don't want a cat or a dog going flying by and knocking it over on accident. An Antec 1200 weighs like 30 pounds with nothing in it. That sucker isn't going over easy. Not that it's going to be a huge issue, seeing as the pets don't ever really get close to the case in the first place, but peace of mind, y'know?
- Aesthetics. Walking into my room and seeing a giant ass full tower just feels good. Every time I look at it, I want to think " Damn, that looks fine. "
With all this in mind, I've picked out the Antec 1200 (if the blue LEDs annoy me I can disable them or replace the fans). I'm open to alternatives here. You can base your recommendations on build quality, expansion, cooling, functionality, and the like. Don't worry about how it looks - I can veto it if it doesn't jive right with me - I don't expect you to get /that/ far inside my head.
Power Supply
The potential future graphics cards along with potential increase of hard drives led me to settle on 1000w. Antec CP-1000 to go with the case.
RAM
1600mhz should be fine here, or maybe even down to 1333mhz. I believe Sandy Bridge is DDR2 dual thread, not DDR3 triple thread, I guess I could go with like 8 or 12? Higher quality brands would be good here. This is a computer of epic proportions, and I don't want to fill it up with crap.
Storage:
It seems to me that everyone is recommends using a solid state drive as the boot drive, containing the operating system as well as the programs. The problem with this, is, SSDs are RIDICULOUSLY. Freaking. Expensive. $200 for 120gb is just completely asinine. However, if the performance benefits are really, truly, and legitimately that amazing, I will do it. Like I mentioned, this is an epic build, deserving of epic performance.
The rest can be whatever, really. Fill it up with terabyte drives or whatever. My only stipulation here is high quality. I've read a lot about certain brands (Seagate?) crapping out and people losing data. I really don't want to have to deal with that kind of bullshit. I was thinking Western Digital, but you've been around a hell of a lot longer than I have. I defer to wisdom.
Furthermore, I was considering doing a RAID-5 array. From what I understand RAID-5 would make access to data faster while providing redundancy. What do you think about this? From what I understand that if a mobo does happen to have a RAID controller, it's low quality, so I can think about adding a RAID controller or whatever, as well.
Keyboard and Mouse:
My keyboard is the one pictured here . Essentially your standard keyboard, I guess. I'd like to get something backlit for night gaming. I don't really know what would be good here. I suppose you can just take into consideration that I'm a gamer, and go from there.
I am going to recommend that you * S T R E T C H * , for ONE GTX-580, NOW.
These monitors are 1920x1080 ... going up to 1920x1200 is cost prohibitive.
You may wish to go with a single, 32" 1080P/120MHz LCD HDTV (TARGET had a nice Phillips)
. . . C H E C K - I T - O U T , >> NOW ! ! << !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBClImpnfAg
*****************************************************************
ASUS P6X58D Premium LGA 1366 Intel X58 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard
$284.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6813131614
Intel Core i7-950 Bloomfield 3.06GHz 4 x 256KB L2 Cache 8MB L3 Cache LGA 1366 130W Quad-Core Processor BX80601950
$294.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6819115211
>>> This Cooler COMES WITH GOOD THERMAL PASTE & ALL PARTS TO MOUNT 2nd FAN (for "Push-Pull" ).
COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 Plus RR-B10-212P-G1 "Heatpipe Direct Contact" Long Life Sleeve 120mm CPU Cooler Compatible Intel Core i5 & Intel Core i7
$29.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6835103065
*** YOU NEED THIS EXACT (Matched RPM/CFM) FAN, FOR PUSH-PULL COOLING !!
COOLER MASTER R4-BMBS-20PK-R0 Blade Master 120mm Case Fan
$11.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6835103069
>>> COMBO DEAL <<<
850 WATT CORSAIR PSU > PLUS > 3x2GB (=6GB) CORSAIR DDR3 RAM 1600c8
Combined Total = Combo Price: $189.98
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Comb [...] mbo.579885
STRETCH FOR THE GTX 580 (NOW ! ) :
EVGA 015-P3-1580-AR GeForce GTX 580 (Fermi) 1536MB 384-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card
$509.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6814130587
PLUS >>>TWO<<< of these Monitors (Come with cables).
ASUS VH236H Black 23" 2ms(GTG) HDMI Widescreen Full HD 1080P LCD Monitor 300 cd/m2 20000 :1 (ASCR) Built-in Speakers
@ TWO X $179.99 (each) = $359.98 Total (for both)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6824236059
*** SSD (For Boot/Utils/Browser/Apps ... 80GB will be plenty ... load games on HDD).
... ( I did not include a 2.5" to 3.5" mount adapter ... you can velcro/tape to cage).
OCZ Vertex 2 OCZSSD2-2VTX80G 2.5" 80GB SATA II MLC Internal SSD
$169.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6820227685
SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ 1TB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive
$69.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6822152185
ASUS Black 24X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 12X DVD+R DL 24X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 12X DVD-RAM 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 32X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM 2MB Cache SATA 24X DVD Burner - Bulk - OEM
$19.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6827135204
YOUR MOBO COMES WITH TWO SATA CABLES BUT YOU HAVE THREE DRIVES SO ...
... YOU NEED >> THIS << CABLE (TOO) :
OKGEAR 18" SATA 6 Gbps Round Cable W/ Metal Shield, Straight to Right Angle, UV Blue, Backward Compatible with 3 Gbps and 1.5 Gbps
$4.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6812123262
FULL TOWER CASE: THIS IS THE ONLY ONE I RECOMMEND:
COOLER MASTER HAF 932 RC-932-KKN1-GP Black Steel ATX Full Tower Computer Case
$139.98
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6811119160
Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit 1-Pack for System Builders - OEM
$99.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6832116754
>>> ALL (17) LISTED ITEMS TOTAL $2,186.84 (PLUS $17.72 Shipping) <<<
GRAND TOTAL FOR ALL ITEMS, SHIPPED TO YOUR DOOR >>> $2,204.56`
I am going to recommend that you * S T R E T C H * , for ONE GTX-580, NOW.
These monitors are 1920x1080 ... going up to 1920x1200 is cost prohibitive.
You may wish to go with a single, 32" 1080P/120MHz LCD HDTV (TARGET had a nice Phillips)
Processor: Is there any reason you decided to go with the i7-950 versus the i7-2600k, which I believe are within $20 of eachother?
Power supply: Why an 850 watt power supply? According to the two power calculators I've looked at, that won't be enough for a second graphics card.
Graphics: I'm not sure about the GTX 580. The 570 is at a pretty sweet spot, I don't feel like the extra $150 is justified by the meager performance increase.
Case: As for the HAF 932... I've looked at it previously and considered it, but man, it just looks like ***. It's not going to work. The Antec 1200 isn't a bad case, is it?
RAM: Is 6gb really going to be enough for the sort of multi-tasking load I'm looking at?
Storage: Is the solid state drive really worth it? What kind of performance benefits are we looking at? As for the hard disks, why those Samsungs? Western Digital has caviar blacks with 64mb cache for $20 more.
I don't mean to sound like I'm tearing you down, I'm just curious as to why you made those decisions.
Processor: Is there any reason you decided to go with the i7-950 versus the i7-2600k, which I believe are within $20 of eachother?
If you can get one (and get it that cheap), it will certainly clock better, but I am uncertain (leery, at this point) about the built-in DRM and a few other "dubious" controls that have been added ... just me. ... Go for it ... You are prolly correct to do so (I did not see that they were yet priced on newegg).
Power supply: Why an 850 watt power supply? According to the two power calculators I've looked at, that won't be enough for a second graphics card.
Again ... You have a good point ... Two 570s will scale well ... give you a lower initial outlay (for just one), and your mobo will support two 16X GPUs. ... You coulda got by ok with just one 580 and you would be able to push better frame rates on those TWO monitors.
Graphics: I'm not sure about the GTX 580. The 570 is at a pretty sweet spot, I don't feel like the extra $150 is justified by the meager performance increase.
You have a point ... It will push 2 mons (multi-tasking) ... I was thinking about "AA" on 2 LCDs, tho.
Case: As for the HAF 932... I've looked at it previously and considered it, but man, it just looks like ***. It's not going to work. The Antec 1200 isn't a bad case, is it?
1200 is a GREAT case ... Sure ... DO that (you must "like" your system, to enjoy it ! ).
RAM: Is 6gb really going to be enough for the sort of multi-tasking load I'm looking at?
Again ... I relent ... 6GB *WOULD* be enough (for everything you have mentionned) but * DRAM IS CHEAP, RIGHT NOW * and more is always better ... A good time to really LOAD IT UP ... Go fer it !
Storage: Is the solid state drive really worth it? What kind of performance benefits are we looking at? As for the hard disks, why those Samsungs? Western Digital has caviar blacks with 64mb cache for $20 more.
DUDE ... For me? ... The extra speed is only a desirable side effect ... DEPENDABILITY is why I (REALLY, MAN) insist (For YOUR sake). Please have a little faith, on this one ... I see this as critical.
I don't mean to sound like I'm tearing you down, I'm just curious as to why you made those decisions.
No ... You were totally CORRECT to "take me to task" ... SO SAD that you did not "TAKE ME TO SCHOOL" on a fully public threrad, but feel free to post my "eating of my doo-rag" on any public thread ... because lots of folks are trying to make these same choices, for themselves, right now, and could benefit.
I've got no idea what a doo rag is, I'm not that ghetto.
More questions!
Considering a dual monitor configuration, you seem to feel like a single GTX 580 would create a better frame rates/overall experience than two GTX 570s. If I'm following your meaning correctly, then I suppose I can swing for the 580 and gripe about the price in my sleep.
When you were referring to better reliability, did you mean that solid state drives have better reliability, or that the Samsung Spinpoints have better reliability over a Western Digital? I feel like I can overcome reliability issues with a RAID 5 array of terabyte drives inside the Antec 1200.
As for pricing on Sandy Bridge, I was basing that assumption on the chart here at TH, which puts the i7-2600k at $317. I have no idea if the motherboards are going to be more expensive than the one spec'd out now.
TAYLOR WROTE
Considering a dual monitor configuration, you seem to feel like a single GTX 580 would create a better frame rates/overall experience than two GTX 570s. If I'm following your meaning correctly, then I suppose I can swing for the 580 and gripe about the price in my sleep.
ALVIN ANSWERS:
No ... That is NOT what I meant ...
What I am saying is that ONE GTX580 would give you better frame rates, with most/all "game features" enabled, on TWO 1080 LCDs, than ONE 570 would, IF you were to go with ONE SINGLE CARD, to start ...
... Remember that most gamers use only one monitor, especially at hi rez.
... I am only speculating that running a 2nd monitor, at hi-rez, may be a little too much, for a 570, if all ("AA" et. al.) features are enabled ...
... A 570 is plenty good for CS5 MPE and for CS5 PS and for general DUAL SCREEN MULTI-TASKING .... BUT ... running fps *GAMES* ... fully enabled ... would likely bog the 570 down, in SOME GAMES (only).
... SO ... WHAT IS AM/WAS saying is ... IF YOU REALLY WANT to run some heavy games, at highest "rez-feature-load" ... ON *TWO* 1080 LCDs, then you would do best to get ONE 580 or TWO 570s, right off the bat (i.e. NOW).
If you get (only) ONE 580 ... NOW ... then you will likely NEVER NEED to go with a DUAL-SLI configuration ... BECAUSE ... By the time the 580 FINALLY starts to drag, there will be WAY BETTER SINGLE GPU OPTION AVAILABLE !!!
.... "All That" means LOWER cost, now, *and* NEXT GPU Upgrade cycle *AND* that you can shave 100Watts off your max PSU power rating.
Do remember that Sandies use ~20 Watts less than i7-5xx chips AND that SSDs use WAY WAY less power than spinners ... My point is that POWER REQUIREMENTS will ONLY trend (significantly) DOWNward !!!
So ... I say ... Go with a GTX 580 (The best single card Games-n-ProGraphics solution) ... *NOW* ... And wait until it HURTS, before (once again) opting for THE BEST SINGLE GPU SOLUTION, for your NEXT upgrade.
But if you do not scale down your PSU, commensurately, then your cost savings (initial outlay + operating power and houshold A/C-BTUs) will not be fully realized ...
... But even without considering power ... Your total outlay, for "awsome graphics" will be LESS, overall, initially AND at the next upgrade cycle.
... Finally ... (for you budget minded fans) ... Going with a BETTER *SINGLE* GPU solution, will allow you to save up to $100, or more, on a cheaper ASROCK or Micro-ATX motherboards (WHICH WOULD NOT NEED TO SUPPORT MORE THAN ONE X16 PCIe GPU SLOT) ... Nicro ATX boards only have one GPU slot ... Most cheaper X58 mobo options WILL not support a X16 + X16 SLI configuration.
So, ... There are LOTS of reasons to go with a single GTX 580, even if TWO 570s would be faster (now or later).
Alvin's responses (bold type) inserted into Taylor's last post
*****************************************
When you were referring to better reliability, did you mean that solid state drives have better reliability, or that the Samsung Spinpoints have better reliability over a Western Digital?
SSDs DO NOT CRASH
I feel like I can overcome reliability issues with a RAID 5 array of terabyte drives inside the Antec 1200.
[:jaydeejohn:3] [:jaydeejohn:3] [:jaydeejohn:3] <<< You :: Me >>> [:bilbat:3]
As for pricing on Sandy Bridge, I was basing that assumption on the chart here at TH, which puts the i7-2600k at $317.
Great ... Throw me a link !!!
I have no idea if the motherboards are going to be more expensive than the one spec'd out now.
Should run on the exact same motherboard (1366 X58) ... No ??? !!! ... Anyone ??? !!!
(might need a bios upgrade (or two, or three ... or ... ? )
No. Sandy Bridge is socket 1155 as of now. Later in 2011, dunno.
The link you requested: http://www.tomshardware.com/review [...] 33-10.html
Note the chart near the top of the page.
I noticed you don't want to derail this thread... should I create a new one?
Taylor ... There are SO MANY reaasons not to go with that PIG of a DEAD SOCKET (1155) that I'm not even going to dignify the mere thought with ANY arguments or analysis ... DO YOURSEF A *HUGE* favor, and do not give 1156 ANY thought or consideration ... JUST SAY "NO" !!!
Trust me, on that one ... please! ... I don't have the energy to explain but the that socket has a cobbled PCIe Bus and the socket has reached the end of it's "platform longevity" ... Pathetic prospects for expansion ... etc.
YES, TAYLOR ... We can go (back) to private mode OR you can start a new PUBLIC thread, and post that link, here, and at my PM inbox ...
... You have enough snap to keep me honest, and that should be entertaining, for some, and informative, for many.
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