Building new PC

[velocci]

Hi all, I'm having some computer problems. if I were to decide to buy a new motherboard, CPU and memory, I have some questions. Its been about 5 years since I built a PC.

1. should I go with intel or AMD? it seems that with AMD, you get much more for the money. i notice you can buy a 6 core amd at 3.3ghz for the same price as an intel with 4 cores running at 2.93ghz.

2. if i were to go with AMD, which socket? is AM3 the newest and best? which chipset should I get?

3. will i be able to use my current vide card? i'm using an evga 7800 GT which uses the pcie slot. this is one of the earlier pcie video cards.

4. will i be able to use my current power supply? right now i'm using a Enermax Liberty 620 watt.

5. will i be able to use the same case I have now? right now i have an antec P180

6. anything else I should be concerned about?

thanks for all your help.

 

[mosox]

Budget please and what do you plan to do on the PC.

 

[MadAdmiral]

1.) Cores are deceiving. Right now, AMD is a lot cheaper, but Intel is a lot faster. Especially with their new Sandy Bridge CPUs (the i5-2xxx and i7-2xxx). To put it in perspective, AMD's X6s were about equal to the i7-930 (the previous Intel generation). They were faster in some applications, but slower in others. The main cost savings was found in the motherboards and RAM. The old i7 board were easily $100-150 more than equivalent AMD boards, and the i7s required triple channel RAM (three sticks), which is typical $40-50 more. However, the new LGA1155 boards aren't crazy expensive and the new Intel CPUs all use dual channel RAM, which eliminates a lot of the cost savings of AMD.

Right now, assuming you have a healthy budget, you shouldn't be looking at anything except the Sandy Brigde CPUs. Judging from your questions, I'd say you're in the market for the i7-2600 or i7-2600K. An i7-2600 build is easily in range if you've got $550 for the CPU, board and RAM. Knock $100 for the i5-2500 or i5-2500K. An AMD build (the X4 955 is the only CPU I'd look at) would be more like $275.

However, that doubling in price is definitely worth it for Sandy Bridge. The original i7 was already a great deal faster than the X4 955, and Sandy Bridge added another 20-30% performance on top of that.

2.) AM3 would be the only socket worth while to buy from AMD. If you weren't going Intel (which you should), the 8xx chipsets would be best. Specifically, the ASRock 870 Extreme3 would be the best board. However, you should buy Intel. Look at any of their LGA1155 P67 boards. There isn't much data out about the different models (the socket is only a week or so old), so which board is best is kind of a crapshoot. I'd look at Asus and Gigabyte first, followed by ASRock, then MSI or EVGA (not even sure if they all have models out yet).

3.) Is it a PCIe 2.0 slot or a PCIe? If it's a 2.0, it'll work. If it's PCIe, it should as most boards still have those slots. Just double check it.

4.) As long as it's an ATX unit. Might need to buy a converter to get the right number of pins to connect to the motherboard.

5.) Yes.

6.) Not really. You'll probably need to buy an OS too, so don't forget to budget the $100 it takes to get Windows 7.

 

[velocci]

my budget would be about 500-550 canadian. right now i'm not playing games, but i do plan on playing diablo 3 when it comes out. the last time i was playing games was when I was playing Guild Wars, the original one. i also do video file convertions, use internet, etc

here is how i figure i'd break it down:
motherboard: $150
cpu: $250
memory: $130 (DDR3)

this is the main reason why i'm leaning towards AMD rather than intel.

so MadAdmiral, does this change your answer?

 

[velocci]

its the EVGA 7800 GT that I bought in early 2006. so its probably PCIe. when did PCIe 2.0 come out?

the case I have is an ATX. how would i know if i'd require a converter to get the right number of pins to connect to the motherboard?

3.) Is it a PCIe 2.0 slot or a PCIe? If it's a 2.0, it'll work. If it's PCIe, it should as most boards still have those slots. Just double check it.

4.) As long as it's an ATX unit. Might need to buy a converter to get the right number of pins to connect to the motherboard.

 

[velocci]

ok i got my signature enabled again but for some reason, not all of it gets displayed. here is what i have:

mobo: Asus A8N32-sli delux
cpu: AMD Athlon 64 x2 4200
memory: OCZ 2x1ghz platinum ed (2-3-2-5)
video card: evga 7800GT CO
case: Antec P-180 with 4 fans
PSU: Enermax Liberty 620W
HDD: WD raptor 74gb + Seagate 160GB
Optical drive: IDE dual layer burner
OS: Win 7 32bit

 

[MadAdmiral]

I have no idea when PCIe 2.0 came out.

RAM isn't going to cost you $130. Some great DDR3 1600 mhz CAS Latency 9 sticks will run around $40 (Corsair's XMS3s are currently the best value). That's for 4 GB. If you don't mind having 4 x 2 GB (less room to upgrade), then it'll only be $80. For 2 x 4 GB, it'll be around $100. Of course, those are US prices, so it might be a touch more expensive, but not that much.

Either way, the i5-2500 is definitely in budget. If you can't get the i7-2600, that's the next best thing.

 

[ko888]

PCI Express 2.0 motherboards started to show up in late 2007.

PCIe 2.0 motherboard slots are fully backward compatible with PCIe v1.x cards so the EVGA 7800 GT is still usable.

 

[mosox]

GIGABYTE GA-880GA-UD3H
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128444
AMD Phenom II X4 955
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103808
G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231275

$318.97

You don't need that video card you have, the mobo has a better video card integrated, you can even play games on it or you can add a video card.

SAPPHIRE 100315L Radeon HD 6850
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102908&cm_re=hd_6850-_-14-102-908-_-Product
ASUS EAH6850
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121419&cm_re=hd_6850-_-14-121-419-_-Product

$179.99

the video card is overkill for that game though, you can also get a HD 5770.

 

[MadAdmiral]

Given what you're doing, I can't get behind using any AMD CPU. I also can't get behind using an ATI/AMD GPU either, as they aren't very good for non-gaming tasks.

Here's what I'd look at:

CPU/Mobo: i5-2500K and Gigabyte GA-P67A-UD3 $345 (with free game)
RAM: G.Skill 2x4 GB DDR3 1333 CAS Latency 9 $77

That's $422. You could drop the RAM to a 2x2 GB kit to save $30-35. That might give you enough to start looking at a GTX 460 for a discrete GPU. It looks like the 768 GB ones run about $120-130, while the 1 GB models run closer to $150-160.

 

[mosox]

He's doing his video conversions on an Athlon 64, the Phenom will fly compared to that. A few less seconds/minute doesn't matter IMO. Also the CUDA conversions have low quality (Tom's article).

 

[MadAdmiral]

Fair enough on the CUDA. However, the 460 fits the budget (even without the extra 4 GB of RAM), so why not get the best GPU possible? Also, I'd be surprised if video conversion is the only task. I'm sure there is some video editing that goes along with that...

As for the comparison between the X4 and the i5, it's night and day. The original i5s were already a lot faster than the X4, and the new i5s are a good 20-30% faster than that. Again, the i5 fits into the budget, so why not get the best performance possible?

I should also point out that if you're happy enough with the current performance of your GPU for now, you could step up to the i7-2600K for about $100 more. That would offer even better performance than the i5. Still, I think a new GPU is going to become necessary very soon.

 

[velocci]

thanks for your replies everyone. a couple of questions:
1. what is CUDA converstions and which cpu is better for that?
2. what do you mean by GPU? is that the video card or the cpu?

 

[MadAdmiral]

1.) CUDA is a feature of nVidia GPUs. It has nothing to do with CPUs. CUDA conversion refers to using the GPU's processing power to convert files instead of the CPU's processing power.

2.) GPU = Grapichs Processing Unit. It's what makes the video card run. GPU is just a quick way to say video card.

 

[mosox]

Get MadAdmiral's CPU/mobo combo and my RAM, you can add later. Or this RAM, it's on the mobo's certified memory list if you want more RAM:
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231314

I'd get the 6850 for the lower power consumption and for being cool.

 

[velocci]

i'm used to saying video card. so GPU is not something that comes on all motherboards right? if the motherboard doesn't have built in video, then it doesn't have a GPU right?

so if i'm converting video files, should I get an nvidea video card?

1.) CUDA is a feature of nVidia GPUs. It has nothing to do with CPUs. CUDA conversion refers to using the GPU's processing power to convert files instead of the CPU's processing power.

2.) GPU = Grapichs Processing Unit. It's what makes the video card run. GPU is just a quick way to say video card.

 

[MadAdmiral]

Correct. I'm not sure how much a nVidia card will help in the process of converting the files, but if you do any editing or rendering, it will help out a lot. Besides, the GTX 460 (either the 768 MB or 1 GB versions) is still more powerful than the HD 5770 in gaming.

 

[velocci]

well i don't do any editing. what i'm doing now is downloading squash matches in .flv format, then converting them to .avi so I can watch them on my WD Live TV hub.

 

[velocci]

the problem with the Gigabyte GA-P67A-UD3 is that it has a 6 pin CPU power connector. my PSU has 4 pin only.

Given what you're doing, I can't get behind using any AMD CPU. I also can't get behind using an ATI/AMD GPU either, as they aren't very good for non-gaming tasks.

Here's what I'd look at:

CPU/Mobo: i5-2500K and Gigabyte GA-P67A-UD3 $345 (with free game)
RAM: G.Skill 2x4 GB DDR3 1333 CAS Latency 9 $77

That's $422. You could drop the RAM to a 2x2 GB kit to save $30-35. That might give you enough to start looking at a GTX 460 for a discrete GPU. It looks like the 768 GB ones run about $120-130, while the 1 GB models run closer to $150-160.

 

[MadAdmiral]

I believe they sell adapters. I think that pretty much every board uses 4 pin right now, so that's not an issue with the board I picked, but with the PSU.

 

[velocci]

sorry i don't understand. you're saying all boards have a 4 pin cpu connector, exept for the one you mentioned above? or all boards these days have 6 pin connector?

I believe they sell adapters. I think that pretty much every board uses 4 pin right now, so that's not an issue with the board I picked, but with the PSU.

 

[MadAdmiral]

Doing a quick spot search on Newegg shows that most boards use either 4 pin (AM3, other Intel chipsets) or 8 pin (somewhat common on LGA1155). I didn't notice any with 6 pin CPU connectors. Are you sure you're not looking at the PCIe power connector?

 

[velocci]

sorry I looked at a small picture of the motherboard and i thought it was 6 pin. i'm looking on gigabyte's site and you're right, all of them are 8 pin or 4 pin. my PSU has the 4 pin connector. but it also has another 4 pin connector that says 12V on it. can I use both those together for the 8 pin connector on the mobo?

Doing a quick spot search on Newegg shows that most boards use either 4 pin (AM3, other Intel chipsets) or 8 pin (somewhat common on LGA1155). I didn't notice any with 6 pin CPU connectors. Are you sure you're not looking at the PCIe power connector?

 

[velocci]

by the way, here are my requirements on a motherboard:
- firewire port for my movie camera
- IDE port for my burner
- Sata 6Gb/s ports
- pci slots. in case I need one.

 

[MadAdmiral]

You can't combine two 4 pin connectors to make an 8 pin. You'd end up frying the motherboard and/or the CPU. Likely both. They're used for two different things. It'd really help if you gave the model of the PSU so when can look and see what it's compatible with.

Off the top of my head, the only one of those requirements that might be an issue with a majority of boards is the IDE port. It's rapidly disappearing. It's not a big issue though because you can find SATA DVD burners for under $20. Firewire (IEEE 1394) is pretty common on boards. The Gigabyte doesn't have one, but the Asus P8P67 does. However, it's $20 or so more expensive.