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PSU Question.. I've totally confused myself.

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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November 20, 2010 12:11:01 AM

I did some searches and I found some pretty good explanations, but I'm still confused. I don't understand, Rails on PSU's.. I understand that each separate voltage has it's own rail and what not, but what I don't get is how it related to power for GPU's. What I've been trying to decide is if my HX850 (850 Watt, single 12v Rail @ 70Amps) would be enough to power two 580's..

Some have said with a quality PSU, running a single 12V rail at 70 amps (like mine) would be fine.. Others have answered that it's not enough and they def wouldn't trust it.

So how do rails and amps and total watts relate to each other and then GPU power?
a b U Graphics card
November 20, 2010 12:50:22 AM

volts * amps = watts. The 580 claims to draw 244 watts TDP, so 488w for 2 of them. You 12v rail claims to be 70w so 12x70=840w, which seems totally unrealistic for a 850w power supply, but is still probably enough to power 488w (and that's worst case) worth of video cards and the rest of your system.
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a c 235 U Graphics card
November 20, 2010 12:58:52 AM

benski said:
You 12v rail claims to be 70w so 12x70=840w, which seems totally unrealistic for a 850w power supply,

care to explain why it would be unrealistic? maybe if you are used to junk PSU I could understand how its unrealistic. the PSU was tested by jonnyguru and passed its posted spec with flying colors.

http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=...
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a c 620 U Graphics card
November 20, 2010 1:05:32 AM

We have the same power supply, which I got because I read it was enough for two GTX480's. The GTX580 is supposed to draw less power than the 480, so it should be enough.

BUT:
"With 2-way SLI we noticed our power consumption for the cards peaked to roughly 719 Watts, that's quite something really, above two 480 actually which is strange to see with a card that supposedly has a lower TDP. Yet we also really need to mention that one of the boards used (engineering sample) had an older BIOS and that the power consumption on that board might be a tad higher as a result of it."
http://www.guru3d.com/article/geforce-gtx-580-sli-revie...

They also had a major overclock, so I would say it depends on how stressed the rest of you system is. A GOOD 850 watt PSU should be enough.
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November 20, 2010 1:28:25 AM

I think I'll give it a shot.. Can anything be damaged other than the PSU if in fact it can't handle it? I can deal with a fried PSU, but do I run the the risk of frying my rig?
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a b U Graphics card
November 20, 2010 1:46:36 AM

ct1615 said:
care to explain why it would be unrealistic? maybe if you are used to junk PSU I could understand how its unrealistic. the PSU was tested by jonnyguru and passed its posted spec with flying colors.

http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=...

Didn't look it up, didn't know it was a corsair, and didn't know they even made power supplies with a single rail for everything, so I didn't think it was realistic to have only 10w for the 3.3 and 5v rails. My mistake.
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November 20, 2010 4:43:37 AM

benski said:
Didn't look it up, didn't know it was a corsair, and didn't know they even made power supplies with a single rail for everything, so I didn't think it was realistic to have only 10w for the 3.3 and 5v rails. My mistake.


There is more than 10W for the 5 and 3.3 rails.
Generally, there will be maximum amps for each rail and then an overall max wattage, so max wattage for 12V + max wattage for 5V + max wattage for 3.3V Rail might add up to 900+ watt, but the 'overall' is still limited to 850.
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a c 620 U Graphics card
November 20, 2010 6:08:00 PM

I got my Corsair 850HX after reading a review that said it was the best power supply they had ever tested. It can easily pull more than 850 watts, so you should be fine with that one.
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Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
November 20, 2010 7:24:26 PM

It plays at 80 silver near to 80% should pull this through but is better to go with 80 bronze considering the drop after some time to get it at higher level 90% and above. There for this will make it without a problem:

http://www.thermaltake.com/product_info.aspx?PARENT_CID...
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a c 235 U Graphics card
November 20, 2010 7:36:52 PM

Quote:
It plays at 80 silver near to 80% should pull this through but is better to go with 80 bronze considering the drop after some time to get it at higher level 90% and above. There for this will make it without a problem:

http://www.thermaltake.com/product_info.aspx?PARENT_CID...


you just recommended a thermaltake 875w over a corsair 850w...a corsair that the OP already owns...a corsair that got a perfect score in performance by jonny guru..a corsair that hardware secrets pulled over 1000w on and still remained over 80% efficient giving it a gold award with the following quote

"Corsair HX850W is an impressive power supply, being to this date the power supply with the highest efficiency that we’ve ever tested,"

and once again...a thermaltake over a corsair PSU....and you wonder why no one takes you seriously? :pfff: 
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Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
November 20, 2010 7:39:55 PM

I didn't say it is not nice but the drop is near to 80% if you confortable with this go for it the in bronze the drop is near to 89% minimum.

To be more specific is a very good psu it starts at 90% for some time this will help the capacitors to fill up fast but then it drops to 80% barely as silver you getting it? In the end with bronze you will get more than 90% at start and you will drop at 89% after some time. He speaks for 580 CF and also must have a motherboard with capacitors good enough.
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a c 235 U Graphics card
November 20, 2010 7:55:41 PM

Quote:
I didn't say it is not nice but the drop is near to 80% if you confortable with this go for it the in bronze the drop is near to 89% minimum.



1. please get drug tested
2. reread the quote I just posted from hardware secrets
3. get a second opinion on your drug test
4. re-read the quote I posted for the second time
5. here is are the results of that HS test, it never drops below 88% and you have to pass 1000w just to get it below 85%
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Corsair-HX850W-P...
6. here's the same test on the thermaltake 775w from the exact same series as the 875w, it never breaks 88% efficiency. where do you get the 875w breaking 90% efficiency? even in there own specs they state they can "provide up to 89% effective power conversion". the corsair never drops below 88%
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Thermaltake-Toug...

the only reason you recommend thermaltakes is because you own one. your so called soap box is made out of cards.
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a c 235 U Graphics card
November 20, 2010 8:04:04 PM

where? they did a hot & cold load test, it was 85%+ in every scenario....
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a b U Graphics card
November 20, 2010 8:11:36 PM

PSU , "medal' rating is like the Olympics.
Gold is the best
Silver is 2nd best
Bronze is 3rd best.
Someone thinks that bronze is better than silver is wrong. I say this because the strange reasoning I'm hearing keeps coming back to that.
Never mind, Corsair is one of the top name brands.
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Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
November 20, 2010 8:18:41 PM

Ok then we have a barely 80% the link that ct1615 gave a 89% Bronze the link i gave.
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a c 235 U Graphics card
November 20, 2010 8:22:42 PM

Quote:
Ok then we have a barely 80% the link that ct1615 gave a 89% Bronze the link i gave.


where? are you just making this stuff up? is there some internet that only you visit to get your information? please post the quote or test from jonnyguru or hardware secrets where they stated the corsair PSU is "barely 80% efficient"?

P.S. the links i gave are legitimate third party reviews. the link you gave is marketing material from the thermaltake website. I linked a review where the just lower thermaltake toughpower XT 775w won't touch 89%
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Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
November 20, 2010 8:24:09 PM

Go in here and click the NEXT you will see everyting you gave me this link dam it!!

http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=...

finaly it drops to 80 they say in the test the drop after some time is the ISSUE.
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a c 235 U Graphics card
November 20, 2010 8:28:56 PM

Quote:
Go in here and click the NEXT you will see everyting you gave me this link dam it!!

http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=...

finaly it drops to 80 they say in the test the drop after some time is the ISSUE.


. :heink:  he is talking about the 44w low load test...

"Let's whack her with an absurdly low load and see what happens, shall we? "
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Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
November 20, 2010 8:31:59 PM

yes and it drops to 74% really nice you have nothing to worry about...
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a c 235 U Graphics card
November 20, 2010 8:32:34 PM

Quote:

finaly it drops to 80 they say in the test the drop after some time is the ISSUE.



Bang, zoom, straight to the moon! The efficiency is the highlight of the above table, where it starts at an already impressive 88.4% and immediately heads over 90%. It already looks like Corsair's out to turn some heads with this one. Sadly, from a maximum of 90.1%, the unit starts to drop off from there; eventually bottoming out at 84.9%. If we round up, that barely qualifies it for 80 Plus Silver, which is quite nice. Down in crossload test one, the result was an even 83%. This is an exceptional result when one considers that modern power supplies are not intended to power such a high 3.3V/5V crossload anymore, which used to be the norm back in the Pentium III days. To be honest, I don't think I've seen a unit of recent release that could hold the efficiency so far over 80% in this test.
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Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
November 20, 2010 8:38:43 PM

Yes and finally drops to 74% in the link that i gave they selling it for bronze officially BUT the drop is 89% and the reason is the Japanese capacitor that hold stable at 105 C.

The op in order to do it he needs a silver and is better to go for 1200watts silver to be sure also he needs the new japanese capacitors on the motherboard couse he speacks for 2 580 in CF.....
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a c 235 U Graphics card
November 20, 2010 8:43:39 PM

Quote:
Yes and finally drops to 74% in the link that i gave they selling it for bronze officially BUT the drop is 89% and the reason is the Japanese capacitor that hold stable at 105 C.

The on in order to do it he needs a silver and is better to go for 1200watts silver to be sure.


here is thermaltake toughpower XT 775w review, same exact test...and basically the same exact results with it dropping 76% efficiency in the same absurd low test...why are the results so similar?? maybe because the two PSU are made by the exact same company?! :sarcastic: 

http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=...
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Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
November 20, 2010 8:46:38 PM

ct1615 you have tired me you are giving the tests i will not sit over a 2% conversation in the bottom line even a GOLD PSU will not help him if he doesn’t have the same Japanese capacitor on board ok?

I wrote if it silver ? go for 1200watts to BE SURE allright?

and you gave this:

http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=...

then you found a thermaltake that gives this:

http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=...

so You can see clearly the thermaltake is more stable in the images the only reason for this ? Is the new capacitor allwrite?

Thermaltake:



Corsair:



Bottom line you gave the links
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a c 235 U Graphics card
November 20, 2010 9:07:43 PM

Quote:
ct1615 you have tired me you are giving the tests i will not sit over a 2% conversation in the bottom line even a GOLD PSU will not help him if he doesn’t have the same Japanese capacitor on board ok?

I wrote if it silver ? go for 1200watts to BE SURE allright?

and you gave this:

http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=...

then you found a thermaltake that gives this:

http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=...

so You can see clearly the thermaltake is more stable in the images the only reason for this ? Is the new capacitor allwrite?

Thermaltake:

http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules/NDReviews/images/ThermaltakeTPX775M/Oscope/OS3.jpg

Corsair:

http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules/NDReviews/images/CorsairHX850/Oscope/OS3.jpg



the reason you are tired of the reviews is because they contradict what you are saying. you simply live in a world where you refuse to see any common sense, instead you pass on drivel. Your own PC has issues and rather then trying to fix them you simply believe that is how all other PC work when time and time again we explain to you they don't. So rather then address your own problems you simply state to everyone they have a power problem unless they have your same exact set up. even in your own member configuration

"3.30Ghz Quad, 8 Gbytes DDR2 800, Gigabyte HD5770-1GB, NH-D14 cpu cooler and 4 120x120 Noctua fans cooling system, Thermaltake 650 watts, 6 satta ii in RAID 0 that ONLY a 650 watts PSU can handle that power and if need to add 1 usb stick i need to upgrade in 1200 watts PSU also i have 2 DVDs All in a Thermaltake Mambo Case, 1 external HD and all plugged in UPS 1500VA Macrodowell XP series."

your first power recommendation is simply false and your second is absurd.


It's like a having 100 people take a color test. the first 99 say the circle is blue and the box is red. the 100th person says , both are gray and every person before me is color blind because they can't see that.
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Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
November 20, 2010 9:12:02 PM

you found a thermaltake in here:



and a Cosair in here:



You gave me the links and the 775 is NOT the termaltake i suggested yet you can see the diffrence CLEAR.

The reason that i tired is becouse you don't even see the images!!!

Once again this the LINK you gave thermaltake:

http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=...

the other link you gave again Corsair:

http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=...

and make a favour see the images allright?

the point is WHO is stable and who is NOT and this thermaltake in your link is NOT the THERMALTAKE I suggested and yet is better than your 850 in stability and this the ONLY reason that i took thermaltake you got it? all the other you posted is pure BS.
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a b U Graphics card
November 20, 2010 9:24:45 PM

What is this obsession with 1200 watt psu's ?
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Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
November 20, 2010 9:26:28 PM

He gave a corsair 850 and if you see the DROP in the images is HUGE in the and a thermaltake 775 witch is MORE stable in the images and he can't even see it. YET again is not the thermaltake i suggested is better than these 2.
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November 20, 2010 9:42:12 PM

This thread is like a drug trip, when only one is in that trip.
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a c 235 U Graphics card
November 20, 2010 10:03:18 PM

Quote:
He gave a corsair 850 and if you see the DROP in the images is HUGE in the and a thermaltake 775 witch is MORE stable in the images and he can't even see it. YET again is not the thermaltake i suggested is better than these 2.


the corsair has better efficiency then the thermaltake in every test but the coveted 45w low watt test that even the reviewer states is absurd. the thermaltake beats it by 2%, even its efficiency is low (both below 77%). so if anyone wants to do the paper clip trick with their 24pin connector and run 3-4 case fans, the thermaltake is clearly the way to go. all other real world scenarios, like computing, gaming, etc., the corsair has a slight efficiency advantage in every scenario.

both PSU are reviewed by Oklahomawolf. Someone that knows a whole lot more about PSU then me and hopefully he can one day attain Giatrakis amount of vast knowledge on the subject. I"ll quote him when talking about the thermaltake toughpower xt series and corsairs HX (both made by CWT)

page #5 - value
This compares well against the Corsair 750HX and 950TX. Now, Corsair has been taking the value section of my scoring by storm lately, so when a unit compares favorably to not one but two of their units, I tend to sit up and pay attention. I say this is quite a good value indeed. But the 750HX is a slightly better product at a lower price, so half a point comes off. 9.5.
http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=...

now looking at the 850hx and TX 875w, I thinks its fair to say both are similar to the their 750 & 775 version, same OEM after all.


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Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
November 20, 2010 10:09:24 PM

The corsair if you see the images does a HUGE drop and the Thermaltake does not or you pretend not to see it?

I do care only about stability NOTHING else.

In your test it get 85.1% NOT stable the thermaltake it gets 86.6% fully stable there is HUGE diffrence. IN my tests i can confirm these results this is WHY i stay in thermaltake and i suggest this brand.

Do i made myself clear? You can suggest what you like i don't really care.

Once again Thermaltake:
http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=...
Once again Corsair:
http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=...

All the other thinks they write about the price,the points, etc is pure BS (sorry about it) in the bottom line i get 86.6% Fully stable.

And i'm telling you this baby in here:

http://www.thermaltake.com/product_info.aspx?PARENT_CID...

You will get 89% fully stable in startup maybe more but not under that. You got it?
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a b U Graphics card
November 20, 2010 10:49:20 PM

Deep breaths ct , take deep breaths. ;) 
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a c 235 U Graphics card
November 20, 2010 10:51:04 PM

Quote:


You will get 89% fully stable in startup maybe more but not under that. You got it?


even though in their own marketing material they state "up to 89%" and not "does not drop below 89%"...strange how thermaltake does not even agree with you :sarcastic: 

also, last I checked % of V rail spec or the simply shutting down where tests for stability. I see now that you changed that to % in dropped efficiency even if it remains high (even higher then the competition). you should notify all the web sites out there. I'm sure they will love you see your views on how to test a PSU.
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a c 235 U Graphics card
November 20, 2010 10:51:57 PM

delluser1 said:
Deep breaths ct , take deep breaths. ;) 


this guy should do comedy shows :lol: 
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a b U Graphics card
November 20, 2010 10:59:50 PM

I know this thread hasn't exactly degenerated into childish name calling yet, but I think the debate here is getting off topic. Before it goes any further down hill, I'm locking the thread.

@ the OP,

If you still don't have the answer you're looking for, please create another thread. Should that be necessary, I hope ct1615 and Giatrakis can keep their debate on topic without resorting to attacking each other.
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