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Computer Hangs anytime and anywhere

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April 18, 2011 1:41:38 PM

Hello guys,

I have Computer hangs problem. Computer hangs anywhere sometime in bios too, before POST, after POST, during work, and even in safe mode.

So acc. to me its a hardware problem.

I kept my computer open so heating of cabinet is not problem but I thought my CPU heat sink may have problem. CPU fan is working fine.

Ram is ok, I already tested memory test and it shows no problem. Even I tried to removed one ram and test computer.

Power supply also seems fine, because I tried to use another SMPS same problem shows.

My Cabinet fan is jam, but I aready kept my CPU so that fan does not make much effect I hope so.

I have doubt on heatsink but not sure or may be its thermal paste ?

I already checked Events logs no new logs shown currently all are old one.

Here is my computer config:

Processor : P4 2.4ghz
Ram: 1.12 Gb [1 GB +128 MB]
MOBO: P89v51RD2
MOBO: D845GVSR
Gfx card: No

* Edited mobo model earlier post wrong model.

More about : computer hangs anytime

April 20, 2011 4:43:41 AM

There must be a serious virus problem as I was also facing the same problem with my system. Get it formatted.
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April 20, 2011 6:52:08 AM

clean the heatsink and remove the dust

check capacitors for residue on top of the motherboard - leaky caps cause instability

but i recon your power supply is more than likely the suspect here
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April 20, 2011 7:58:23 AM

Daave12 said:
There must be a serious virus problem as I was also facing the same problem with my system. Get it formatted.


If it was a virus problem then I should not be hang durin boot, in BIOS, beforepost right ?

SO I odntthink its virus problem, Even when I was installing windows then also it was hanged sometime.
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April 20, 2011 8:02:53 AM

Hellboy said:
clean the heatsink and remove the dust

check capacitors for residue on top of the motherboard - leaky caps cause instability

but i recon your power supply is more than likely the suspect here



Hey hellboy,

I already cleaned heat sink lot of times , there was not any dust on it.

capacitors on mobo seems fine.

As i already told when I tried by changing power supply sometime ago, problem remain same.

------------------------------------


I have question: When ever I cleaned heatsink copper portion, some sort of black color I seen on cloth or cotton. What that is ithat copper errode ?

Can heatsink behave like electronics components ( i mean like they have self life).
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April 20, 2011 8:17:04 AM

manan said:
Hey hellboy,

I already cleaned heat sink lot of times , there was not any dust on it.

capacitors on mobo seems fine.

As i already told when I tried by changing power supply sometime ago, problem remain same.

------------------------------------


I have question: When ever I cleaned heatsink copper portion, some sort of black color I seen on cloth or cotton. What that is ithat copper errode ?

Can heatsink behave like electronics components ( i mean like they have self life).


heatsinks dont have a shelf life but the compound between the processor and the heatsink can dry out and not be as efficient as it first was..

what your removed was the heatsink compound.. I would suggest your go and buy some more and re apply... find a local store who will supply you some its not too expensive but its there to help disperse heat..
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April 20, 2011 8:26:20 AM

Hellboy said:
heatsinks dont have a shelf life but the compound between the processor and the heatsink can dry out and not be as efficient as it first was..

what your removed was the heatsink compound.. I would suggest your go and buy some more and re apply... find a local store who will supply you some its not too expensive but its there to help disperse heat..



I already applied every time when I clean. I did not used artic silver thermal paste. I don't think P4 processor needs artic silver.

I have unbranded thermal paste that i applied evertime I clean CPU.
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April 21, 2011 7:37:06 AM

the only think i can think of if you have checked the ram -

best one is memtest..

but if that is not the case then the motherboard is up the old river...

Processors would not normally fail in this way so my money is now on the motherboard....

try and find one on ebay, there cheap enough on there - if you get the same board you wont have to activate windows again.
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April 28, 2011 8:15:13 AM

Hellboy said:
the only think i can think of if you have checked the ram -

best one is memtest..

but if that is not the case then the motherboard is up the old river...

Processors would not normally fail in this way so my money is now on the motherboard....

try and find one on ebay, there cheap enough on there - if you get the same board you wont have to activate windows again.



hmmm Ram is ok, may be mobo problem or heat sink, I have doubt on heat sink more. Why ?

Ans: Some times when Ipress power button to start the computer it does not start, mobo light glows ,processor turn on in CPU evrything is on but no display on TFT, So What I do, Turn off everything unlock the heatsink and again lock the heat sink, you know the 478 heat sink socket, it has two white strands to lock, so simply unlock and lock the heatsink.

Then I turn on the computer and it starts, no doubt after sometime again it will hang. Very rare when it does not hang. :( 
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April 28, 2011 9:07:19 AM

motherboard then....

find one one ebay...
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April 28, 2011 9:19:54 AM

Hellboy said:
motherboard then....

find one one ebay...



Are you sure ?

Can you tell me which section of mobo create prob/reason of this prob/on which behalf your saying this ?



thanks,
manan
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April 28, 2011 8:56:55 PM

capacitors around the cpu - look for leaky capacitors ... the ones that are blown are the ones that havent got a flat head or may even be leaking


the reason on this is that youve changed the psu, you have checked the ram and the next logical thing is the motherboard...

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May 1, 2011 4:45:51 PM

Hmmm, I already checked , all capictors are in good situation, no one leaky or browny.

I think Heat sink is culprit ? Cannot be ?

Becz sometime after hang pc does not start and then I unlock and lock heat sink and then computer starts.
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a c 120 à CPUs
May 1, 2011 4:53:47 PM

More then likely it's your hard drive.
Run cmd prompt sfc/scannow in safemode
Run the vendors diagnostics(available from their website).
Before you do that unplug your hdd data cable.
Boot into bios.
If that works fine (no freeze or hang) = i suspect your hdd.

Btw you're Caps aren't solid caps there're the old style.
If even one is slightly bulged at the top it's toast.
They should be flat on the top.
http://badcaps.net/images/caps/kt7/kt3.html
Look at the ones near your cpu socket they tend to go first.
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May 2, 2011 9:11:56 PM

ok sounds like a connection between your processor and your motherboard...

now youve got two options...

replace the board, the heatsink or the cpu...

i still recon its the motherboard but i have got some in stock to try out
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May 3, 2011 4:02:24 PM

Ok, Davcon also has the point.

But now situation is weird :D 

I tried to test HDD using seagate software, It fails SMART test because of some bad sectors, but rest all TEST successful.


Then I try to Scan HDD using HDD properties and scan disc (check option fix error). Restart PC becz and C drive scanned and fix some errors.

Then I removed HDD data cable and turn on PC in bios. It did not hang out for few minutes.

and again I connect the HDD datacable and turn on PC.


Now computer did not hang for few hours even today I played AOE-II on this PC :D  and its running smoothly.


Then again i tried to scan HDD using seagate soft again SMART test failed and other test passed.


May be some other technical harware prob is there.

Still Working on it, if it hangs again I will report here. Kindly don't close the thread.
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May 4, 2011 7:26:55 AM

ok

hard drives causing this sort of problem is not common - hanging the bios but not a possibility.

Try replacing the hard disk cable - is it a Sata or IDE

a hard disk failing like this would normally be

Boot device not found etc but it is a Seagate and they have been known to have some firmware errors...

Get all the details of the hard disk from the sticker and report it here.
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May 4, 2011 7:40:40 AM

I also not sure if its HDD prob or not, Becz before, system also hang in BIOS or even when I try to start PC.

I believe cable is IDE.

Here is detail of my HDD:

Model No: ST340015A
Serial No: 5LAGLFX7
Capacity: 40 GB


You can see the complete manufacturer deatils regarding of My HDD here:

http://www.seagate.com/support/disc/manuals/ata/cuda540...
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May 4, 2011 8:28:55 AM

its an old hard disk by any standard...

a 40 gig hard disk was around 8-10 years ago and could be failing but the whole machine is old...

my monies on the motherboard - somethings not right on the power phase to the cpu in my opionion... maybe its time to replace the whole system

heck you could get one hell of a better system for 2-300 dollars
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May 4, 2011 10:35:38 AM

what is the exact ram configuration? speed and latencies of both sticks?

if there to far apart they may have damaged the mmu which would lead to instant offs at random intervals.
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May 4, 2011 11:50:16 AM

@ hellboy,

I am not using that system anymore, I got two new latest system with Core i processors. That system is used by my parents to learn computer :p  They don't know abt computer so i decided to keep that system for that purpose only.

Its 6 years old PC actually.


@Hexit
problem is abt system hangs randomly not turn off randomly.

This system has 1.128 GB Ram Latency is not much difference between them. I know Ram will operate at lesser frequency, if system has two different frequency modules.

One is PC-2700 (166Mhz) - 128 MB , #Latency - 2.5 clocks
Other is PC-3200 (200Mhz) - 1 GB , # Latency - 3.0 Clock

Overall: 166MHz, # Latency 2.5 Clocks


[ initially system comes with 12b MB ram lol sounds strange these days, but at that time its sufficent] Then I upgraded to 1 GB more.
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May 4, 2011 1:03:29 PM

nah theres not enough difference in the latency to cause damage to the mmu. that normally takes 2-3 points across each timing.

i doubt your using win7 or vista 64 either... as they both need high precision event timers. with out that being set rite the system would hang constantly at random intervals. it may also affect 32bit versions but im not sure about that.

so i would look at aging components like the caps and voltage regulators...


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May 4, 2011 2:52:26 PM

Window XP(32 bit) is installed on this system, Caps are ok. I did not find anything broken/bluged at top.
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May 4, 2011 4:18:56 PM

Have you checked running temps with HWMonitor or RealTemp?

Have you removed the 128mb RAM and run the 1gb alone, at it's rated speeds and voltage?

Aside from that... could be motherboard, could be PSU (although I know you tried a different one so probably not). I've never heard of a HDD causing it to hang in the BIOS. Have you tried unplugging the HDD completely? It will come up with a "boot device not found" error, but if it doesn't hang in BIOS then you might have found the culprit.

Can't really think of anything else... CPU not being seated right, or overheating... You say you tested RAM so I guess that's ok...
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May 4, 2011 4:21:54 PM

i have just reread the whole post and you have already tried everything else i was gonna suggest... but i see davcon asked you to run chkdsk which you did and the problem went away for a short time...
this is because the hdd mapped out the bad sectors, but over time it created more. so you can assume the hdd is failing. to be sure run the tests again. again it should map out any bad sectors and seem to work for a while at least. then it will happen again...

eventually what will happen is that you will have no more recovery space on the hdd and it will fail properly. my guess is that the power supply is causing power spikes in the hdd and burning the disk the resulting bad sectors, also power spikes would also shut down the pc...

if the hdd is failing then it will need to be replaced but if the psu is causing it to fail then you will have to replace both.
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May 4, 2011 7:45:30 PM

^+1 exactly the hdd is damaged and will eventually fail.
Get all your data you want now before it's too late.
HEXiT is also correct that power surges and spikes cause the most damage to hdds.
How many times has the power gone out with your pc running?
It's happened to all of us.
Good idea to have at least a surge suppressor between the wall and your psu.
Also check out your psu with a multi-meter or tester.
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May 4, 2011 7:51:57 PM

Hmmm Today only one time computer freeze, I used computer for nearly 4-5 hours. Problem is reduced much, I don't know how.

In few days I am going to install fresh window. Completely format the HDD all drives and then will test HDD using segate software.


1. I tried replacing PSU
2. I already test Memory.
3. Heating is not the problem, becz if computer hang or shutdown becz of heating prob next time when it we turn on it produces particular sound sequence an d even msg appear on screen before POST.
4. I monitored HDD temp is normal. I don't think there is any sensor for CPU temp in P4.
5.Mobo caps are absoultely fine. Cann't say if any other Hardware defect is there.
6. Already cleaned lot of times, Heat Sink+CPU and every time I applied fresh Thermal paste.
7.CPU fan is working fine as I can see.
8. One side of chasis is open, So I dont think there is hot air or heating problem inside chasis as P4 procesor does not produce much heat.
9.Already tried to remove all cables,RAM units,processor,fans,HDD,CD Drive from mobo and reconnect them.
10 Few months ago when i try to install OS, at that time also it ill hang in between:p  [You know how irritating it is when Pc hangs during Os installation lol] Will try to reinstall OS in few days again.
11. There is not the problem of drivers[updated] or any software I suppose. Becz system freeze anywhere anytime.

thanks,
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May 4, 2011 7:55:22 PM

@davcon

I canot say anything how many times system freezes and forcely turnoff. I never counted But it happens lot of times.

I will check PSU again with multimeter.
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May 4, 2011 11:02:49 PM

who makes the motherboard - is it a foxconn
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May 5, 2011 2:12:40 AM

Actualy I bought this brand new LG system that time and motherboard manufacturer is intel corporation as shown in CPU-Z.
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May 5, 2011 6:25:40 AM

is there any markings on the motherboard it self...

cant find any trace of the board that what cpuz gives up

unplug the hard disk

reset the pc for a while spazmodically and see if it hangs at the bios

if it does then its not the hard disk

i had a cd drive fail once - it had a circuit board fault which caused the booting issue - one of those cheap ones - an obscure make - cant remember but theyve gone bust now so its not important anymore. ages ago that !

with onboard video cards it uses the ram of the machine - take out the odd memory and see if it boots ok then swap memory chips and see what happends..

as i say if i think its the motherboard but hey ho, if its the same motherboard that E-Machines used then they were problematic with motherboard issues.
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May 5, 2011 7:41:18 AM

again you have proven its a hard drive issue, you reformatted and reinstalled and the problem went away for a few hours...

now pay attention to it over time, the pc will start shutting down at shorter and shorter intervals. it may not follow and absolutly straight path in the time it takes as you will be doing different things. but as a general rule the time between shutdowns will decrease... as more and more bad sectors are written to the disk.

replace your hdd... you may have to get a 80gig+ as i dont think they make 40 gig any more.
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May 5, 2011 7:42:44 AM

There was not any marking on the system. Can you give nay clue what sort of marking you are talking about. Only intel logo and board name and barcode is printed on circuite board.

I already removed the CD drive So this option is also neglected than becz of CD drive this freezing problem arose.

As i told these days its did not hang much today it hang which is tun on PC[ after complete login when desktop window comes] then i restart the PC usig reset switch and work conti for 2 hours it did not hang.

So in such situation, its difficult to weather system hang in bios by removing HDD.

Already tried by swaping RAM earlier at that time it does not effect the Hang ups, they remain same :( 


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May 5, 2011 7:46:34 AM

HEXiT said:
again you have proven its a hard drive issue, you reformatted and reinstalled and the problem went away for a few hours...

now pay attention to it over time, the pc will start shutting down at shorter and shorter intervals. it may not follow and absolutly straight path in the time it takes as you will be doing different things. but as a general rule the time between shutdowns will decrease... as more and more bad sectors are written to the disk.

replace your hdd... you may have to get a 80gig+ as i dont think they make 40 gig any more.



No I didnot install OS recently, its old OS. I was saying in above post I will install in the coming days.


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May 5, 2011 9:13:46 AM

manan said:
There was not any marking on the system. Can you give nay clue what sort of marking you are talking about. Only intel logo and board name and barcode is printed on circuite board.

I already removed the CD drive So this option is also neglected than becz of CD drive this freezing problem arose.

As i told these days its did not hang much today it hang which is tun on PC[ after complete login when desktop window comes] then i restart the PC usig reset switch and work conti for 2 hours it did not hang.

So in such situation, its difficult to weather system hang in bios by removing HDD.

Already tried by swaping RAM earlier at that time it does not effect the Hang ups, they remain same :( 


its normally in white writing on the board or on a sticker with a bar code on it...

it can be quite subtle but atleast we could have further insite to what board you have.

you could reflash the bios if we knew exactly what board you have :( 

but hey get a Asrock socket 478 on ebay for about 30 dollars if this is the answer to your problems...

try a ide hard disk - someone you know must have a 80 gig or something knocking around..

download burn in test pro - theres a free trial - google it and see what happends
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May 5, 2011 9:37:21 AM

If you are talking abt my board name its:

MOBO: P89v51RD2
MOBO: D845GVSR
Socket 478

I already mentioned board in my first post, There is bios update available of this system, But I dont think its BIOS issue becz this system working fine with same bios few months ago and slowly this problem starts.

I did not update BIOS becz I fear if it hangs during BIOS update then it will create problem. Then need to restore the bio bla bla..

Testpro you mean this : http://www.testpro-int.com/
??



* Edited mobo model earlier post wrong model.
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May 5, 2011 9:47:39 AM

manan said:
No I didnot install OS recently, its old OS. I was saying in above post I will install in the coming days.

my bad i misread your post...
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May 5, 2011 2:34:45 PM

manan said:
I will check PSU again with multimeter.

Which is the first thing one does for this kind of problem. Most everything that causes your problem is not identified by observation. Most of the things you were told to inspect do not cause crashed. Those 'solutions' cure symptoms.

A multimeter must measure six wires both before and as the power button is pressed. Critical wires that connect the PSU to motherboard are a green, gray, purple, and any one red, orange, and yellow wires. All measurements must be done with nothing disconnected or removed. Numbers reported to three digits.

The next reply will either say what is suspect. Or what is completely good - without any doubts.

I did not see what is the computer manufacturer. Better manufacturers provide comprehensive hardware diagnostics. Otherwise you must download diagnostics from various component manufacturers. Again, most all failures cannot be visually identified. To have solutions that are definitive (without doubt) means hard answers such as from a multimeter and from comprehensive diagnostics.

Was your heatsink locked solid with dust? If not, then heat was never a problem. Heat is a diagnostic tool that finds defective hardware. Should the meter only report parts as good - without wild speculation - then a heat source (ie soldering iron, hairdryer) may be another tool to identify defective hardware. After measuring with a meter and posting those numbers, then start looking for available heat sources and comprehensive diagnostics. So that we can move on to answers without speculation.
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May 6, 2011 1:58:50 PM

@westom

I already tested PSU as i mentioned, even tried by changing SMPS with higher wattage.

I said i will double check PSU again.

My heatsink is totally cleaned.
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May 6, 2011 2:34:37 PM

manan said:
I already tested PSU as i mentioned, even tried by changing SMPS with higher wattage.

All that is completely irrelevant to what a meter is measures. You are assuming a PSU is the entire power system. PSU is only one component of that system. Higher wattage PSU also makes no difference.

All that concern about heat and other visual indication is mostly irrelevant. Most problems involve things that cannot be observed without test equipment such as a meter.

Either keep finxing perfactly good parts and software until something works. Or do as suggested to see a defect before fixing anything. Currently, those who better know computers cannot provide assistance due to insufficient information. Things you already did only rarely explain your symptoms. Useful replies (without speculation) start with numbers; ie from a multimeter.
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May 7, 2011 2:54:25 PM

Quote:
@all plz note:

My mobo is : D845GVSR [intel board]

I mistakenly post wrong model in earlier posts "P89v51RD2" . Actually I was working on Microcontroller, So I confused with this. lol @ me.


Sorry for wrong info.

Ok Today i keep system on in BIOS without HDD, HDD data cable was unconnected. and yes system hangs in BIOS. and also during CHDSK it shows " 0 KB in bad sectors."

I suppose HDD is fine.

@ westom
I will update PSU results tomorrow, after testing PSU with multimeter.

What do you mean by "those who better know computers cannot provide assistance due to insufficient information."

You mean that i do testing is not worth :o  or nothing anyone can predict from such testing ?

Even SMPS wattage prob also one of the reason os sytem shut down and hangs. [ Try to use Dedicated Gfx on your system and use less wattage SMPS you will results :p  ]

thanks,
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May 7, 2011 3:13:13 PM

Lemme post some SS of CPU-Z, If anyone needs info about my system:

Here complete CPU Z info:

1. CPU



2. Cache



3. Mother Board



4. Memory



5. Memory Slot 1



6. Memory Slot 2



7. Graphics



Hope it helps.

-Manan
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May 7, 2011 7:18:38 PM

manan said:
What do you mean by "those who better know computers cannot provide assistance due to insufficient information."

You mean that i do testing is not worth :o  or nothing anyone can predict from such testing ?
Normal is for a good supply to fail in what is otherwise a good system. Normal is for a defective supply to boot and run a computer for months or even a year. Swapping (testing by subjective reasoning) leads to speculative conclusions. Does not provide the hard facts required to have definitive answers.

I cannot say anything useful from tests done by swapping parts. It is too speculative. Will only result in replies from others who only understand a 'yes or no' world. The real world is ternary: 'yes, no, or maybe'.

To provide a useful answer, I need hard facts such as numbers. I cannot add anything from testing that creates doubts.

For example, the power supply could have been defective when installed. Still booted a computer. Then caused failure months later after the warranty expired. But the meter would have seen the defect immediately. Long before the defect causes any failures.

A first thing we must unteach some techs is shotgunning. Diagnostics that only provide 'maybe' answers. We need faster answers - without doubts. In most cases, that always means numbers.
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May 7, 2011 7:55:15 PM

If you don't have a multimeter, you might get some answers in HWMonitor. It depends on what the motherboard can show, but for example HWMonitor has 3.3V, 5V, and 12V actual voltages so I can see if they're way off. Even with my system fully loaded my voltages barely drop, only the 12V hits 11.83 at the absolute lowest I've seen, normally 11.88V. ATX spec is something like +/- 0.4V I think.
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May 7, 2011 7:59:50 PM

@ Wolfram23

I am electronics guy :p  I have Multimeter. and I will post HWmonitor result too if feasible(sensors) :) 

@westom

and yes I already did testing with multimeter 6 months ago that time SMPS was ok, then at that time I try to replace SMPS too, but no use, thats why I am saying in above posts that i already did that and I will do these test again. :) 

If SMPS will ok then whats your next move (for test)?
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May 7, 2011 8:17:19 PM

> If SMPS will ok then whats your next move (for test)?

Posted previously:
> After measuring with a meter and posting those numbers, then start looking for
> available heat sources and comprehensive diagnostics.
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May 7, 2011 9:26:35 PM

Can you plz explain it in easy words/procedure :p  So that everyone can understand what actually you mean, no offencee:) 
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May 7, 2011 9:28:54 PM

you want to test your psu with the multimeter right?
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May 8, 2011 5:55:43 AM

manan said:
Can you plz explain it in easy words/procedure

Use the meter as described to measure those six wires. Post the resulting three digit numbers. A reply may define information from those numbers that you did not even know exists. I don't know how I can make this any easier. Numbers using that posted procedure is necessary for a useful reply.
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May 8, 2011 7:13:02 AM

Testing a psu with a multi meter will only work out if 12 volts is there etc

it will not give you the wattage or the ampage drain..


good grief...
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