centaurs race guide?

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Hello,

I'm pretty new to VGAplanets. Only played around a bit with some
friends, trying things out and stuff.
For some reason I really like the centaur race. Unfortunately I couldn't
find any 'newbie guide' that explains the basics and maybe has some
tricks (as there is for most other races).
I realize, the centaurs are proly not the best race to start the game
with, but they seem fun. :)

Also, where would I go to find people for a game? Being the newbie I am
I don't expect to get into any of the 'big' games (as I would proly be
wiped from the map by turn 15).
Ideally I would love to take part in a game with someone 'mentoring' me,
hehe. Explaining stuff, helping out etc. But that's alot to ask for I guess.

Oh well, any answer is most appreciated!
Best regards,
Robert
 
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Hallo Robert,
I am a beginner to VGA Planets, been playing since late last year.

I don't have info on the Centaurs for you, but I can answer you other
questions.

I had trouble finding games at first, but the following two sites have
hosted games
http://www.rcworld.de/
http://vgap.drewhead.org/

I find Drewhead is more active with v4 and is more popular. There are often
beginner games. Don't worry to much about being wiped out straight away,
often the players are timid and make mistakes too. And if you are wiped
out, you can start a new game all the sooner with what you have learnt!

You can always setup a private game with your friends at Drewhead's.
Planets is much more fun playing against people you know!

For mentoring, I would go to
http://www.vgap4-info.org.uk/VGAP4-Int/english/index.htm

Here they have a step by step guide to the first ten turns of so of a game
of VGAP that you can setup and play along with.

Good luck
Malcolm Snelgrove


Robert Camsky <camsky@arcor.de> wrote:

>Hello,
>
>I'm pretty new to VGAplanets. Only played around a bit with some
>friends, trying things out and stuff.
>For some reason I really like the centaur race. Unfortunately I couldn't
>find any 'newbie guide' that explains the basics and maybe has some
>tricks (as there is for most other races).
>I realize, the centaurs are proly not the best race to start the game
>with, but they seem fun. :)
>
>Also, where would I go to find people for a game? Being the newbie I am
>I don't expect to get into any of the 'big' games (as I would proly be
>wiped from the map by turn 15).
>Ideally I would love to take part in a game with someone 'mentoring' me,
>hehe. Explaining stuff, helping out etc. But that's alot to ask for I guess.
>
>Oh well, any answer is most appreciated!
>Best regards,
>Robert
 
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Robert Camsky wrote:
> Also, where would I go to find people for a game? Being the newbie I am
> I don't expect to get into any of the 'big' games (as I would proly be
> wiped from the map by turn 15).
> Ideally I would love to take part in a game with someone 'mentoring' me,
> hehe. Explaining stuff, helping out etc. But that's alot to ask for I
> guess.

Well for you as being german (as I
suspect) try out pbemzone dot de. It's
complete german and there are some
newbies around either.

cu
Ilja
 
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Robert Camsky wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I'm pretty new to VGAplanets. Only played around a bit with some
> friends, trying things out and stuff.
> For some reason I really like the centaur race. Unfortunately I couldn't
> find any 'newbie guide' that explains the basics and maybe has some
> tricks (as there is for most other races).
> I realize, the centaurs are proly not the best race to start the game
> with, but they seem fun. :)
>
> Also, where would I go to find people for a game? Being the newbie I am
> I don't expect to get into any of the 'big' games (as I would proly be
> wiped from the map by turn 15).
> Ideally I would love to take part in a game with someone 'mentoring' me,
> hehe. Explaining stuff, helping out etc. But that's alot to ask for I
> guess.
>
> Oh well, any answer is most appreciated!
> Best regards,
> Robert

Best is to read much, but be carefull, often the docs are wrong (means
not updated since some time or it is not so working as described).
Never played the Centaurs so don't know a raceguide for them.

Other host are "spacecraft-portal point de" (or look at the host which
are member of the "webring" or often are other interesting links at the
link list of the sites).

Bye-Bye JoSch.
 

nameless

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Oh, only one Centaur raceguide does exist, you can reach it from Tims
site through clicking on the left handed side (under v4 HP) 3rd party
races and then by clicking in the main frame the link to the Centaurs
HP (and I for one thing do not agree with all tips and tricks therein).
I am afraid that is all you will find about them (in form of a race
guide)- for some reason there still does not exist any other race guide
(not even on furfur - eventhough there are already links race guides to
not even released races). I also remember a discussion on this
newsgroup from summer 2003 in which also the question about a Cent
raceguide did arise, but so far no one has ever written a new one.
To get ideas how to play them you might have better luck checking the
hall of fame of ie. drewhead for games in which the Centaur did not do
too bad and look at their final rsts. You will at least get an idea as
what stuff he uses and for what - with much experience you could also
deduce much more from those (but that is a different story).
You might also want to ah heck players like Mutu (the player who is now
taking care of the Centaur race), or Hammer for help.
Or search this newsgroup for information on the Centaurs and especially
also about fighters and fighter combat along with some threads about
amorphs,glory devices and lerchin spice.
And in any case do not ask me.

Many bigger sites which are hosting planets4 games are also hosting
occasionaly beginner games (for a more or less complete list of planets
sites look at the links on the planets4 homepage) - like rcworld or
drewhead - and usually also have boards where to ask any (stupid)
questions.
 
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The key to playing the Centuri is huge swarms of ships + all shield
exotics + all small weapon exotics + all attack bonus / evasic bonsuses
+ high tech small weapons.

They don't have much need for Large weapon tech or exotics with their
own ship list.

They do have ships and buildings that are good for getting extra cash
(and they will need it), and are a race that likes to share planets
with other players. (Robots and Privateers excluded.)

They fare better in games with preset alliances than in normal games.
In a team game, a popular Centuri stategy is to donate a good portion
of their cash to their allies for them to build their monster ships.
 
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"Nameless" wrote in message

> You might also want to ah heck players like Mutu (the player who is now
> taking care of the Centaur race), or Hammer for help.

Hi!
Erm. "An advisory" note on the use of English? 8)
Just in case this was a typographical or language error (rather than a
direct suggestion of "anal intercourse")?
Did you actually mean
"...bug players like..."
or what you actually wrote?
I'm not trying to be critical of you - if you wish to follow in THRAWN's
footsteps with potentially rude language, that's your choice. I have no
problem with that. I'm assuming that it was a genuine error, as your
language is usually more polite than this?

FYI
http://www.hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/ah heck
"ah heck" is not generally considered as a rude word when used in certain
context, only this one isn't generally one of them.

Terms like "ah heck off" or "ah heck me!!" or "I'll be buggered!" are
generally considered as mild expletives. A suggestion that you might want to
ah heck someone else is a slightly odd usage and in written text - well - I
wouldn't recommend it? 8)

English is "a ah heck of a language"! Your written English is *very* good.

Excellent reply otherwise - I was about to suggest the same thing.

Cheers!
--
Olly
PS. If you wish to discuss this or the English language popular slang in
general - please feel free to e-mail me direct!
 

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Of course I did not mean anal intercourse (eventhough I must admit that

I was aware of that meaning of the word ah heck).
With that sentence I did mean that he should ask them for help (well
while being annoying).
I probably should have phrased it a little bit differently
(but I did not want to use the word ask).
At the time I did write that sentence I had thought about phrases like
"go ah heck someone else"- meaning that he should go and annoy someone
else (by asking questions) (not me).
 

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joncnunn@yahoo.com wrote:
>The key to playing the Centuri is huge swarms of ships + all shield
>exotics + all small weapon exotics + all attack bonus / evasic
bonsuses
>+ high tech small weapons.

Hmm, why did I never had a huge swarm of ships with the Centaurs?
Eventhough at one point it was mainly me playing the Cents
which did give them such a high rating?

I had seldom an attack force with more than 10 - 20 Centaur ships in
one place,
of course at the same location were usually also a few thousand
fighters.


>They don't have much need for Large weapon tech or exotics with their
>own ship list.

Do you mean large weapon exotics or in general exotics like immunity to
base Ion Cannons,
Sandcaster Immunity, pod speed exotics, sensor and fuel exotics,
fighter immunity
against nemesis torpedos, Shokazul Pulse etc. ?

>They do have ships and buildings that are good for getting extra cash
>(and they will need it),

Please tell me which of their ships are useful
to make extra cash without amorphous worms?
Or why the marketplace is so important for the Cents, as you said
buildings and
not building?

> and are a race that likes to share planets
>with other players. (Robots and Privateers excluded.)

Please tell me why the Privs and Robots are always excluded,
their are conditions in which it is not unfavorable for both sides to
share a planet
(and without any negative side effects for the Cents or privs or bots).

>They fare better in games with preset alliances than in normal games.

Do they?
 
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That's alot of awesome replies! Could almost make a race guide out of them.
Thanks a ton to you guys! I can see community is not what this game
lacks. :)

Cheers!
Robert
 
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In my book 10-20 ships in the same place IS a huge swarm. Especally
with fighters present.

I meant large weapon tech and large weapon exotics.

immunity to base Ion Cannons : probably not needed considering ICs seem
more dangerous to large mass ships provided there's no base shield.

Sandcaster immunity : Probably very handy

Pod speed exotics : depends upon how much you use pods under their own
power and over what distances.

Sensor exotics : The first one is a bargin for everyone including the
Centaurs.

Fuel exotics : Actually they might need them more than most races.

Fighter immunity against nemisious torp : Depends upon how many ships
with NT there are in that particular game. (And why didn't you kill
that race before they could get NTs?)

SP : Not a particularly good idea since it tends to get many players
mad at you.

Using more than 1 Raffa sometime during the game is much prefered to
using only one.
Building more than 1 Marketplace somewhere in your empire is much
prefered to only buiding one.
As I recall, the Centauri also have Race Tracks.

Robots: Ring of Death from Bug Hives! feeds your colonists to bug
larve. Even their allies! The Eye on their Instrumenaltiy. Kills
Amorphs at a distance and transports the supplies to their ship. The
Eye also spoils your food on nearby ships and bases. Even their allies!

Privateers: Have the worst BO in the known galazy. Causes unhappiness
at range of 200 LY.

And in team games: In a team game you start with some player(s) that
you can start sharing bases with right away.
 

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joncnunn@yahoo.com wrote:
>In my book 10-20 ships in the same place IS a huge swarm. Especally
>with fighters present.

Maybe you should have said so, for me twenty ships are
not a large or even huge swarm.
And most people are not thinking about fighters when they are thinking
about
swarms of ships (as you said yourself - if you would have just
said swarms and not swarms of ships...).

>I meant large weapon tech and large weapon exotics.

Good answer.

>immunity to base Ion Cannons : probably not needed considering ICs
seem
>more dangerous to large mass ships provided there's no base shield.

Not the correct answer. You see no longer needed, because nowadays
ships
can keep a distance to the base Ion Cannons.
Otherwise not to unimportant - you do not want to loose fuel
because some of your exploding ships did not end up as wreckage,
which did only blow up because of the Base Ion Cannons.

>Sandcaster immunity : Probably very handy

One of the first you should enable.

>Pod speed exotics : depends upon how much you use pods under their own
>power and over what distances.

Actually over 50 percent of the objects (I do not count fighters - only
fighter wings)
I did create/build with the Centaurs were pods.

In any case the pod boosts are usually easily affordable,
and therefore since speed is the key for the Cents to win games (on
their
own) having some stuff reach their destination a little bit earlier is
important.
And it is also important to safe fuel, besides the metals will
usually be needed somewhere else. And then pod flying around
on their own are usually less micromanagement then having ie.
Pod Bugs do that job.
In any case pod it is either pods moving on their own or Shantahs and
Raffas doing the job,
allother methods should only be considered to keep the pods safe,
from ie. enemy minefields. In some cases a ShaiShan
towing a pod bug is also an option, but mostly only necessary in areas
where enemy
hyp races do operate.

And then of course there are situations in which having the pod speeds
ets enabled is just a waste of money.


>Sensor exotics : The first one is a bargin for everyone including the
>Centaurs.

Yep, there is not much better than a few hundred ships with a scan
range of over 1000 lys.
You will see about everything which you can possible see (Sensor Image
> 0) within
your scan range.
Moreover if you are near the two connecting points of WHs/JGs and
something
travels that route you will still have an actual scan on it.

>Fuel exotics : Actually they might need them more than most races.

Oh yes, that is true. In Abundant Standard I did burn much more than
100 k kt of fuel - and the game did only run 30 turns - and that
eventhough I did very often use unstable WHs
to safe fuel.
Without the unvoluntary fuel donation of the privs (over 20 k kt) and
Com (probably also over 20 k kt)
the game might have run longer - and I would have had a fuel problem.

>Fighter immunity against nemisious torp : Depends upon how many ships
>with NT there are in that particular game. (And why didn't you kill
>that race before they could get NTs?)

(Because other races had a higher priority.
A high priority have ie. privs, rebels and lizards.
I would assign the Stormers (unless near many amorphs) a rather low
priority - they will be seldom
able (if you have the space) to catch you. And there population centers
are easy prey.
A very low one have the peeps(unless near a stockpile of amorphs),
EE,Scavs - you did get the idea (they like lerchin spice - and are
therefore your customers)).
And of course you do only need it when such a race is in the game -
and then it is cheap (after the initial costs).

>SP : Not a particularly good idea since it tends to get many players
>mad at you.

Actually if you have the money early on and you can forsee that
it will take some time to have finished all enemies off - it is a must.
And then I see absolutly no reason to not have everyone else
(except maybe your allies) getting mad at you, especially not if you
are already waging war on all of them. And then the opinion of races
which can not wage war
effectively on you, because of the distance to you or your speed,
really do not matter.

>Using more than 1 Raffa sometime during the game is much prefered to
>using only one.

You did misunderstand my objection. You see the Raffa alone does not
generate any money alone, without amorphs (and they are only doing you
any good when you explode the Raffa via Glory Device near a base of
yours
having the aforementioned amorphs).

>Building more than 1 Marketplace somewhere in your empire is much
>prefered to only buiding one.
>As I recall, the Centauri also have Race Tracks.

(Very good).
And then you are well aware that I did, as you did mean initially,
the number of building types. And therefore another Marketplace (or
Race Track - actualy
the real useful special race building) does not qualify.
I do not doubt the use of the RaceTrack, I probably did use them more
then many others. The Marketplace is actualy a totally different matter
-
in most cases it is just a waste of supplies and money.


>Robots: Ring of Death from Bug Hives! feeds your colonists to bug
>larve. Even their allies! The Eye on their Instrumenaltiy. Kills
>Amorphs at a distance and transports the supplies to their ship. The
>Eye also spoils your food on nearby ships and bases. Even their
allies!

Well that would mean that they do need an operating bug hive near you.
And in case they have that you have Colonists on the base, afaik it
does not take Crew, Troops and HG.
And the Instrumentalities do need their Eye of Madagon enabled for the
described things to work.

>Privateers: Have the worst BO in the known galazy. Causes unhappiness
>at range of 200 LY.

Well there was a host change that only with a certain amount of
Colonists
these unhappiness is caused - if none or too few are there nothing will
happen.
Seeing my point?

And then I wonder why you did not name the rebels - as a Centaur I do
find
them more annoying.


>And in team games: In a team game you start with some player(s) that
>you can start sharing bases with right away.

Why share a base if you can have the planet for yourself alone?
As it is all races are better when in preset team games.
And then the Cents, with a high enough galactic amorph population and a
not
too low lerchin spice price,
are better able to finish (or better to win) a game fast than any other
of the so far
released races - large maps will not take much longer than normal
map sizes.
 
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A small enough Priv base to not have BO isn't large enough to support a
city. Besides which city is a forbidden structure for Privs so all they
have are captured ones.

It's standard Robot practice to put Bug Hives up on the boarders.
(Athough cut down now that there needs to be some bugs or colonists
there to have more than a 30 LY range.)

The Market Place also gets cash if on a planet your ally [or just
player in which you both have attack off for each other] also has
cities. And since it's not taking away cash from your ally, most
players are happy to share them. The main disadvantage though is how
long it takes to recover from the inital investment.

Plus it's extremely convient to donate cash to an ally when you have
minor bases on the same planet as their ship yard and they have minor
bases on the same planet as your ship yards.
 
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"Nameless" <unknown_ai@web.de> wrote:

>Of course I did not mean anal intercourse (eventhough I must admit that
Good to hear! ;-)

>I was aware of that meaning of the word ah heck).
>With that sentence I did mean that he should ask them for help (well
>while being annoying).
>I probably should have phrased it a little bit differently
>(but I did not want to use the word ask).
>At the time I did write that sentence I had thought about phrases like
>"go ah heck someone else"- meaning that he should go and annoy someone
>else (by asking questions) (not me).
"go ah heck someone else" is still the wrong usage though, "go and bug
someone else" is correct. "bug" means annoy in this context.
The word "ah heck" is not related to "bug" and has a different origin.

Anyway, I think readers got the drift of your meaning.

Regards,
Malcolm.
 

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The Centaurs main population after the beginning of a game,
and a little contra gathering etc., are best kept as far away from
everybody else
as possible, best with a whole lot of small Centaur bases in the
vicinity.
There are exceptions, aside from the obvious one - when you have no
choice...
There is seldom much to gain from a Centaur sharing the base with a big
part of their population with any other race - and there are always
risks.
Ie. Ground Combat happens directly - enemy (or former ally) do not need
one
turn to set up a base - all the time you would need to transfer the
important stuff to
another base. In most cases the enemy would want to capture the base
and not blast it into oblivion (in many case for the same reasons the
Cents would want
to capture the rebel HW and not destroy it). In most cases I would
consider just having a
foreign ship (even unarmed ones with no special device/weapons, but
with just pod bays) without doing anything else -
a declaration of war - heck depending where some of the other objects
of them are just haveing any ship
in orbit would be enough. Unless he/she is an ally (for the game) or
allow commands is switched on,
so that I can ascertain that the ship and the whole situation is indeed
harmless.
I am moreover willing to make exceptions, in case my empire is
widespread and one of these
bases is not that important or he/she knows that the only way
for her/him to win is to stay on my side (not necessarily the other way
round) or that there is no
way that any dangerous situation can arise from the mere presence of
the ship in orbit of my big base.

joncnunn@yahoo.com wrote:
>A small enough Priv base to not have BO isn't large enough to support
a
>city. Besides which city is a forbidden structure for Privs so all
they
>have are captured ones.

Or cities the Cents did build for them. Also if you only have a
Marketplace,
Pod Launcher, Gov Center and a few troops on a base - the happiness of
your base does not matter.


>It's standard Robot practice to put Bug Hives up on the boarders.
>(Athough cut down now that there needs to be some bugs or colonists
>there to have more than a 30 LY range.)

Sometime back it was also standard practice of the bots, to build at
least one bug hive on
each planet with natives (only the ones feedable to the bugs) on the
surface.
And again the Cents only need to have small bases like they would need
for the privs.


In both cases having an alliance work and sharing bases might need a
little
bit more care, but in such alliances there is much to gain especially
for the
bots and privs (ie. the mobility and the ability to clean heavy mined
areas fast and not having these
things against them). Really difficult is it only if the Cents have
to share their whole territory with the bots or privs.



>The Market Place also gets cash if on a planet your ally [or just
>player in which you both have attack off for each other] also has
>cities. And since it's not taking away cash from your ally, most
>players are happy to share them. The main disadvantage though is how
>long it takes to recover from the inital investment.


There is one major problem with the marketplace, aside from the
investment costs.
You need to share that planet and in most cases such bases (the base
from the non-Cent race),
since they will tend to have a large population, will
not be to unimportant for them. Therefore sharing the planet is a big
liability - not
for the Cent, since a clever Cent will not put his main population
(voluntarily)
on such a planet,but for the other race.


And I can tell you that in most cases if you only build the Marketplace
for your own population,
the Marketplaces will most likely just be a waste of money -
I seldom had more than 1 Million Colonists on one base, because of the
RPs and
the not reduced taxes of the natives on that base - and mostly the
bases
did only reach 1 million because of public spaceports or the Autonomy -
population over 1 million Colonists
were usually podded away to neighbouring bases the very same turn.
In Wandering Tribes I only had the highest population, because
over half of my Colonists did come to me because of Public Spaceports.
In 3rd party races also the Recruitment Center of the peeps (my ally in
that game)
did give me such a high population. In Abundant Standard my population
was lower than
even the population of a few deceased races - and the Cents did only
earn 3 VPs (no native
votes, 1 million Colonist on a base did give 1 VP and starting
population of 1 million Colonists)
in 30 turns (end of game).

Also concerning the investment costs, and as I might have already
mentioned,
the money and supplies will in the beginning be needed for other things
-
Public Spaceports, RaceTracks, Shantahs (to transport the natives
gathered by PSPs and
which joined from a planet surface) to relative safety etc..
And no that part of the strategy is in on most cases a must for the
Centaurs,
regardless if you will in the course of the game realize that you can
seize the game
fast or realize that fast round up of the game with or without ally
will not be possible.


>Plus it's extremely convient to donate cash to an ally when you have
>minor bases on the same planet as their ship yard and they have minor
>bases on the same planet as your ship yards.

It still eludes me why my ally would need a small base on one
of my shipyard bases, which does not produce ships for him - in case I
would as a Cent build ships for
my ally he would also need to not only donate the money but also about
everything else.
 
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Right now playing the Centaurs is a waste of time and effort.
My advice do not even try it.
The vcr is broke.
Their is know way for you to win a combat against someone
who knows the pitfalls of the vcr. I.E. a skiled player
will always destroy everything you do and will never loose a ship
while destroying you.
That is how broke the vcr is at this time.
It just so happens that the Cents are the absolute worst
hit by the broke combat vcr.

Tim is suposed to fix it.
But I doubt he has a clue what the real problems are.
And therefore his fix will most likely make things far worse.
If you are playing the Cents good luck you will need it!


Robert Camsky wrote:
> That's alot of awesome replies! Could almost make a race guide out of
them.
> Thanks a ton to you guys! I can see community is not what this game
> lacks. :)
>
> Cheers!
> Robert
 
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minime-hammer wrote:
> Tim is suposed to fix it.
> But I doubt he has a clue what the real problems are.
> And therefore his fix will most likely make things far worse.
> If you are playing the Cents good luck you will need it!

Now that's making me feel comfortable. :)
I did choose the centaurs for my first game. Turn 2 now. We'll see how
long I can stay alive, hehe.
Oh well, can only learn from the experience I guess.
Thanks for the heads up tho!