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PSU surge help

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May 1, 2011 12:27:09 PM

Hello,

I'm currently experiencing an unexplainable surge in which my PSU's 12V amperage seems to be exceeding its 'limit'. I mentioned 'limit' because according to the PSU's manual, the max it can take is 15.5V and my PC reboots when it exceed 13.8V.

I tried plugging my PC to a surge protector and a voltage regulator and the problem still persist.

I basically ran out of ideas on what to do to fix this problem. Can somebody help me on this?


My PC's system are:

ASUS P8P67LE motherboard
Intel Core i7-2600, 3.4GHz
ATi Radeon HD6850
Silverstone SE ST60F-ES (600W)
Kingmax 2GB RAM 1,600MHz DDR3
CoolerMaster Hyper TX3 fan

More about : psu surge

a c 243 ) Power supply
May 1, 2011 12:43:33 PM

sky87 said:
Hello,

I'm currently experiencing an unexplainable surge in which my PSU's 12V amperage seems to be exceeding its 'limit'. I mentioned 'limit' because according to the PSU's manual, the max it can take is 15.5V and my PC reboots when it exceed 13.8V.

I tried plugging my PC to a surge protector and a voltage regulator and the problem still persist.

I basically ran out of ideas on what to do to fix this problem. Can somebody help me on this?

My PC's system are:

ASUS P8P67LE motherboard
Intel Core i7-2600, 3.4GHz
ATi Radeon HD6850
Silverstone SE ST60F-ES (600W)
Kingmax 2GB RAM 1,600MHz DDR3
CoolerMaster Hyper TX3 fan

If the psu is still under warranty Silverstone should help.
If not, help yourself by getting a new psu, quickly
May 1, 2011 3:01:47 PM

sky87 said:
I'm currently experiencing an unexplainable surge in which my PSU's 12V amperage seems to be exceeding its 'limit'. I mentioned 'limit' because according to the PSU's manual, the max it can take is 15.5V and my PC reboots when it exceed 13.8V.

First, the voltage regulator and surge protector are inferior versions of what already exists inside every power supply. Are sold at obscene profits because those profits are its only purpose.

Second, how do you measure amperage? You reported voltages. And did not even say where those numbers come from. 12 volts must output 12 volts no matter what. A multimeter is how to know such numbers. What color wire did you touch with a meter probe to obtain that number?

Related resources
May 2, 2011 7:51:34 AM

westom said:
Second, how do you measure amperage? You reported voltages. And did not even say where those numbers come from. 12 volts must output 12 volts no matter what. A multimeter is how to know such numbers. What color wire did you touch with a meter probe to obtain that number?


I got the info when, upon starting up my PC, I got a notice stating the unusual power surge and that the motherboard's anti-surge mechanism has kicked in, whether it was starting up or while in Windows (the latter resulted from a reboot).

From the stats shown by the motherboard, it stated that the 12V reading bar has gone over the safe level (> 13.8V and highlighted in red) and as long as it remains above that level I can't enter Windows or even shut down properly. It's very annoying as this can last for minutes and not seconds.

As for the amperage, I may have mistaken that for the total amperage available term. Sorry, I'm not all that familiar with some of the electrical terms. :??: 


Quote:
If the psu is still under warranty Silverstone should help.
If not, help yourself by getting a new psu, quickly


I did thought about replacing a new PSU, but I'll leave that as a last resort if all else fails. :ouch: 

For now, I'll leave my desktop vacant.
a c 144 ) Power supply
May 2, 2011 11:59:34 AM

You do not have a "surge" problem. You have a poor regulation problem. Replace the PSU before you fry something really expensive.

By the way, motherboards do not have an "anti-surge mechanism".
May 2, 2011 2:26:58 PM

sky87 said:
I got the info when, upon starting up my PC, I got a notice stating the unusual power surge and that the motherboard's anti-surge mechanism has kicked in, whether it was starting up or while in Windows (the latter resulted from a reboot).

Well there is not anti-surge mechanism. The USB can detect a surge - that has no relationship to AC power or the PSU.

If measuring voltage via a volt meter built into the motherboard, well, these are notoriously inaccurate until you have first calibrated it with a multimeter. No software will change or fix that onboard meter.

To have a useful answer, take greater care to quote the noun as it was displayed or reported. There is no anti-surge function on a motherboard. An overvoltage protection exists. Hardware designed so that no power supply can damage any other computer component. But overvoltage protection means your system immediately powers off without warning.

A problem or incorrectly reported symptoms can be due to many power supply 'system' components. More than just a PSU. To 'know' something before fixing anything means buying or borrowing a multimeter. A tool so ridiculously simple as to be sold in Kmart. And used by any 13 year old science student. Sold for less than $18 in Wal-Mart. And available in most stores that also sell hammers.

To know of any problem means 3 digit numbers from that meter. Identifying a problem before fixing anything is good diagnostic procedure. Currently I have no idea what the problem may be (if it even exists) that you are so concerned about. Are you confusing a USB excessive load (also called a surge) with a high voltage on AC mains?

a c 243 ) Power supply
May 2, 2011 3:42:37 PM

sky87 said:
I got the info when, upon starting up my PC, I got a notice stating the unusual power surge and that the motherboard's anti-surge mechanism has kicked in, whether it was starting up or while in Windows (the latter resulted from a reboot).

From the stats shown by the motherboard, it stated that the 12V reading bar has gone over the safe level (> 13.8V and highlighted in red) and as long as it remains above that level I can't enter Windows or even shut down properly. It's very annoying as this can last for minutes and not seconds.

As for the amperage, I may have mistaken that for the total amperage available term. Sorry, I'm not all that familiar with some of the electrical terms. :??: 

I did thought about replacing a new PSU, but I'll leave that as a last resort if all else fails. :ouch: 

For now, I'll leave my desktop vacant.


Maybe the Anti-Surge doesn't like the psu, disable it and see if that lets you boot. And get a multimeter.

http://review-images.clunk.org.uk/motherboards/asus/p8p...
May 3, 2011 1:15:57 PM

westom said:
Well there is not anti-surge mechanism. The USB can detect a surge - that has no relationship to AC power or the PSU.

If measuring voltage via a volt meter built into the motherboard, well, these are notoriously inaccurate until you have first calibrated it with a multimeter. No software will change or fix that onboard meter.

To have a useful answer, take greater care to quote the noun as it was displayed or reported. There is no anti-surge function on a motherboard. An overvoltage protection exists. Hardware designed so that no power supply can damage any other computer component. But overvoltage protection means your system immediately powers off without warning.

A problem or incorrectly reported symptoms can be due to many power supply 'system' components. More than just a PSU. To 'know' something before fixing anything means buying or borrowing a multimeter. A tool so ridiculously simple as to be sold in Kmart. And used by any 13 year old science student. Sold for less than $18 in Wal-Mart. And available in most stores that also sell hammers.

To know of any problem means 3 digit numbers from that meter. Identifying a problem before fixing anything is good diagnostic procedure. Currently I have no idea what the problem may be (if it even exists) that you are so concerned about. Are you confusing a USB excessive load (also called a surge) with a high voltage on AC mains?



The only USB port (if that's what you're referring to?) that was used was for my wireless mouse, and that's about it. I had four in total.

Hmm, perhaps an image can help explain the issue?

http://review-images.clunk.org.uk/motherboards/asus/p8p...

Okay, if you're looking at the image, you see the '12V voltage' at the bottom? That reading turned red when it passed 13.8V, that's the surge I'm referring to and that's the problem I'm facing now. :ouch: 

I hope that can help explain for you.


Quote:
Maybe the Anti-Surge doesn't like the psu, disable it and see if that lets you boot. And get a multimeter.

http://review-images.clunk.org.uk/ [...] G_9930.png


Thanks for the image. That's the exact one that I had! ;) 
May 3, 2011 1:44:39 PM

sky87 said:
Okay, if you're looking at the image, you see the '12V voltage' at the bottom? That reading turned red when it passed 13.8V, that's the surge I'm referring to and that's the problem I'm facing now.

Again, that is a voltmeter built on the board. Can be upset even if ceramic capacitors are missing at key locations on the motherboard. Must be calibrated by using a multimeter.

The board must lock out and shut down if the 12 v exceeds a fixed value between 13.4 and 15.6. Your system is not exceeding those numbers if this 13.8 number can be read by software.

However, do you have a serious problem? Nobody can say without numbers from a reliable source - ie the multimeter. A multimeter also needed to calibrate the onboard voltmeter. Only with multimeter numbers can anyone provide a better answer.

You do not have a surge. You are worried about a possible overvoltage.
a b ) Power supply
May 3, 2011 2:55:37 PM

The correct term is Voltage spike
Specs for the +12 V are 11.4 -> 12.6 Volts (I normally use 11.6 for min value)

The use of a DVM (Digital Voltmeter): I highly recommend for verifing Computer displayed voltage. Only needs to be done once to verify computer sisplayed values are correct (with in +/- 0.1 V for +12V). DVM are cheap (considering the cost of Processor/MBs and GPUs) around $20 at an auto parts store (Walmart may even have). DVMs are very easy to use and Great for around the house and the car, not just for computers.
To check +12 and +5 V - Just insert the Black meter lead into the Black wire on a Molex connector. The red lead to the molex red wire for +5 V and the red meter lead to the Yellow (or orange) wire on the molexl connector for the +12 V.
NOTE: the DVM probably will not display a voltage spike, it depends on duration (How long it lasts). Input to a DVM use a capacitor for input to block AC, which also tends to block/limit voltage spikes.

If the Software displayed reading is correct, then two things (1) It's real and coming from the PSU. Most PSUs have both over current protection and overvoltage protection on their outputs. An output of 15V should trip the PSU and cause it to shut down. (2) Have you verified that your memory is stable, no errors when running Prime95. If have memory errors it could transpose a 0 to a 1 (or vsaversa) which could result in an incorrect reading.

Prime95 coupled with HWMonitor (or similar monitoring software) should always be used to verify stability of memory, stability of PSU under LOAD, and that your CPU is not overheating.

Added:
Continuous use of a PSU that is 13 V or higher may give you a good reason to upgrade your CPU to a I5-2500K and a new Z68 MB as they could be destroyed. NEDD to verify that PSU, or just buy a quality PSU such as corsair.
May 4, 2011 2:16:46 PM

RetiredChief said:
The correct term is Voltage spike
Specs for the +12 V are 11.4 -> 12.6 Volts (I normally use 11.6 for min value)


Ah, I see. Is there anyway to lower the voltage use of my PSU?


Quote:
If the Software displayed reading is correct, then two things (1) It's real and coming from the PSU. Most PSUs have both over current protection and overvoltage protection on their outputs. An output of 15V should trip the PSU and cause it to shut down. (2) Have you verified that your memory is stable, no errors when running Prime95. If have memory errors it could transpose a 0 to a 1 (or vsaversa) which could result in an incorrect reading.

Prime95 coupled with HWMonitor (or similar monitoring software) should always be used to verify stability of memory, stability of PSU under LOAD, and that your CPU is not overheating.

Added:
Continuous use of a PSU that is 13 V or higher may give you a good reason to upgrade your CPU to a I5-2500K and a new Z68 MB as they could be destroyed. NEDD to verify that PSU, or just buy a quality PSU such as corsair.


For (1), that's what happened. My PC would just trip and go off without warning, and upon turning on the PC, that's when the reading I got pop up (often > 13.8V and coloured red).

For (2), I don't remember experiencing much issue on the memory. Any symptoms that you can point out?

As for the upgrade part, my PC is on I7-2600K with ASUS M/B. If I do change PSU, will upgrading it to 700W work?


Quote:
Your system is not exceeding those numbers if this 13.8 number can be read by software.

However, do you have a serious problem? Nobody can say without numbers from a reliable source - ie the multimeter. A multimeter also needed to calibrate the onboard voltmeter. Only with multimeter numbers can anyone provide a better answer.


Besides the annoying tripping and shutting down, nothing else. I'll check if my uncle got a multimeter, otherwise I'll just go get one.

But on a separate note, will changing a new PSU be recommended?
a b ) Power supply
May 4, 2011 2:36:08 PM

(1) Can You Adjust PSU output E. - No Very very few Computer PSUs allow for adjusting the Output Voltages.
(2) for memory. Download CPUIZ HWMonitor for monitoring temps and Voltages. Download Prime95 to test memory. Install and run HWMonitor. Install and run Prime 95 (Run in Blend mode which is the default mode. Leave running for two hours min, Monitor your core temperatures for the first 15 Minutes, if ok then just check every 15 Min.
(3) My recommendation for a PSU - Corsair TX650 (Currently $75 after MIA) - An Oustanding choice, higher price, BUT worth evey penny.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
If too high I will look for other. Your system could get by on a GOOD 500 -> 550 Watt PSU

Added
HWMonitor
http://www.cpuid.com/softwares/hwmonitor.html
Prime 95
http://www.mersenne.org/freesoft/
!