New Build Replacing P67 with AMD

[loukur]

Approximate Purchase Date: ASAP
Budget Range: $5k
System Usage from Most to Least Important: computer aided software engineering, gaming,
Parts Not Required: keyboard, mouse, speakers, OS (Windows 7)
Preferred Website(s) for Parts: newegg.com
Country of Origin: US
Parts Preferences: by brand or type:
Power Supply Corsair Professional Series™ Gold AX1200 $279.99 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139014
Cabinet Thermaltake Element V Black Edition $154.99 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811133178&Tpk=VL200K1W2Z
Motherboard ASUS Crosshair IV Formula $229.99 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131644&cm_re=Crosshair_IV_Formula-_-13-131-644-_-Product
CPU AMD Phenom II X6 1100T Thuban, Six-Core CPU $239.99 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103913&Tpk=HDE00ZFBR
CPU Cooling Noctua NH-C14 $89.99 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835608020&Tpk=NH-C14
Memory Corsair Dominator® GT with fan $234.99 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145330
Memory Corsair Dominator® GT with fan $234.99 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145330
Video Card 1 ATI Radeon HD 6970 $379.99 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102915&Tpk=100311SR
SSD 1 Corsair Performance 3 Series™ 128GB SSD $319.99 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233154&Tpk=CSSD-P3128GB2-BRKT
SSD 2 Corsair Performance 3 Series™ 128GB SSD $319.99 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233154&Tpk=CSSD-P3128GB2-BRKT
SSD 3 Corsair Performance 3 Series™ 128GB SSD $319.99 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233154&Tpk=CSSD-P3128GB2-BRKT
HDD 1 WD Caviar Black 1TB, 7200 RPM, 64MB Cache $89.99 http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.aspx?id=100
HDD 2 WD Caviar Black 1TB, 7200 RPM, 64MB Cache $89.99 http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.aspx?id=100
BD RW LG Blu-ray Burner $99.99 http://www.lgsolutions.com/products/digital-storage/optical-disc-drives/blu-ray-drives-internal/wh10ls30-blu-ray-disc-rewriter-internal-sata-10x-supermulti-blue-lightscribe
BD R LG Blu-ray Reader $79.99 http://www.lgsolutions.com/products/digital-storage/optical-disc-drives/blu-ray-drives-internal/uh10ls20-blu-ray-disc-combo-internal-sata-10x-supermulti-blue-lightscribe
Monitor ASUS VW246H Glossy Black 24" 2ms HDMI $199.99 http://usa.asus.com/product.aspx?P_ID=zMRyN4KB5o5rSqKr
Misc VANTEC Black PCI/RAM Slot Protector Kit $4.49

SLI or Crossfire: No
Monitor Resolution: 1920x1080
Additional Comments:
Was planning a P67 build and just redid for AMD. I have not had nearly the time to read up on AMD.
Can't decide between ASUS and GIGABYTE motherboards. (GA-890FXA-UD5 (rev. 2.1) vs. Crosshair IV Formula)
I can't find any 4GB memory at 2,000MHz on QVL for either motherboard

Questions:
Has anyone used 2,000MHz 4GB memory strips with either GA-890FXA-UD5 or Crosshair IV Formula? If so, which ones?
What are preferences between ASUS and GIGABYTE for motherboards started?
How many AMD mistakes did I make?

 

[sandybridge]

This link is all you need to know about the P67/H67 situation:

http://www.intel.com/support/chipsets/sb/CS-032263.htm

Don't worry about the QVL. I never read it. I buy whatever is the best bang for the buck. Then again, I'm not a n00b at computing. Worst case, your ram will run at lower timings. You might have to use one stick to power on and set up ram in bios.

FYI, all you have to do is to switch out the cpu & mobo when or if you replace 'em with P67 + 2600k in April. However, I seriously doubt the 6 cores will be beaten by 4 cores in CAD. Maybe with 8 threads & Turboboast. The Thuban also has Turbo at 3.7Ghz. Most reviews favor 6 cores in core-intensive benchmarks. Video encoding/decoding is also what it excels at.

I don't know how you're gonna set up the ssd/hdd's. I would recommend RAID 5 for the 3 SSD's & RAID 1 for the 2 HDDs. Just so you know, the Crosshair supports RAID 0/1/5/10. Press CTRL I/H or something at the 2nd POST before OS loads to set up RAID.

I haven't rma'ed a ASUS board in the last few years, but a few Gigabyte boards. GB did a good job at rma, in their defence. Quick turn-around. Personally, I'd get ASUS if money is no object.

 

[WR2]

Hello loukur;
You do know that SSDs in raid don't have TRIM support?
Also... don't you think a 128GB SDD is plenty for an OS boot and program disk?
What kinds of programs do have that could fill up 128GB?

 

[WR2]

Also, have you checked the AMD Phenom II X6 1100T BE vs Intel Core i7 950 benchmark comparisons?

 

[loukur]

Hello loukur;
You do know that SSDs in raid don't have TRIM support?
Also... don't you think a 128GB SDD is plenty for an OS boot and program disk?
What kinds of programs do have that could fill up 128GB?

Thanks, readin up on SSD right now.

 

[loukur]

Also, have you checked the AMD Phenom II X6 1100T BE vs Intel Core i7 950 benchmark comparisons?

I would far prefer and Intel chip amd chipset. Unfortunately none of the currently available motherboards have enough SATA 3 or USB 3, not even the X58 boards.

 

[WR2]

What are your SATA 6 and USB 3 requirements? Have you thought about using an expansion card?

For your computer aided software engineering you really want to think about a dual monitor setup. Code on one screen and see the results in the other.

 

[mortonww]

I'm sure you've checked this out, but be sure that the professional modeling and simulation softwares you'll be using can't benefit from NVIDIA CUDA before committing to a Radeon. A GTX 570 might be more suited to your tasks.

I understand this is an ASAP build, so you probably can't wait for sandy bridge to recover, but like WR2 said, I'd sell off the cpu and mobo in april for one of these:

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/203?vs=287

i7 2600k anihilates the x6.

I feel like 3 SSDs is a bad idea right now, too. They will be cheaper and faster later this year. Even right now we're on the cusp of new Sandforce controllers being introduced. A single, 128 GB SSD might be the most judicious route.

 

[loukur]

What are your SATA 6 and USB 3 requirements? Have you thought about using an expansion card?

For your computer aided software engineering you really want to think about a dual monitor setup. Code on one screen and see the results in the other.

Yes, I went down that road with the X58 boards. The X58 cards are more expensive, the high-end chip is $1,000 vs $350 on the P67 boards, and you have to add a raid card for raid once you use the PCIe. Conclusion was lots of money because the older cards are set up for SATA 3gb and USB 2.0. On the other hand, the AMD motherboards have lots of SATA 6GB capacity and USB 3.0 for less money that the P67 motherboards, let alone the older X58 motherboards.

 

[WR2]

So your primary concern is budgetary over performance?
Sounds strange for a build with 3 SSD in it.

What is your priority? Price or performance?

 

[loukur]

This link is all you need to know about the P67/H67 situation:

http://www.intel.com/support/chipsets/sb/CS-032263.htm

Don't worry about the QVL. I never read it. I buy whatever is the best bang for the buck. Then again, I'm not a n00b at computing. Worst case, your ram will run at lower timings. You might have to use one stick to power on and set up ram in bios.

FYI, all you have to do is to switch out the cpu & mobo when or if you replace 'em with P67 + 2600k in April. However, I seriously doubt the 6 cores will be beaten by 4 cores in CAD. Maybe with 8 threads & Turboboast. The Thuban also has Turbo at 3.7Ghz. Most reviews favor 6 cores in core-intensive benchmarks. Video encoding/decoding is also what it excels at.

I don't know how you're gonna set up the ssd/hdd's. I would recommend RAID 5 for the 3 SSD's & RAID 1 for the 2 HDDs. Just so you know, the Crosshair supports RAID 0/1/5/10. Press CTRL I/H or something at the 2nd POST before OS loads to set up RAID.

I haven't rma'ed a ASUS board in the last few years, but a few Gigabyte boards. GB did a good job at rma, in their defence. Quick turn-around. Personally, I'd get ASUS if money is no object.

~ ~ ~

Interesting responses. Thank you very much.

I had that feeling about the QVL. Looks like it was lawyer induced document, not something an engineer would care about.

I had the same thoughts about the 6-core AMD versus the 4-core Intel, that would overcome the performance difference. I wish the thing had tripple-channel memory and six slots, and I could load them with 6x2GB sticks. With four slots, I am forced to choose between 4x2GB and 4x4GB. The 16gb is too much. The 8GB is just too little. I really need 10GB now, and would prefer 12GB for future needs.

I was going to do RAID 0 with both. I've been running RAID 5 for 6 years, and it has never saved me. Norton Ghost has always saved me. I've decided to quit giving up the space and the speed and switch over to RAID 0 for raw speed improvement. Have you tried difference RAID schemes with the SSD? If yes, what did you experience?

My planned set up is:
3 SSDs in RAID 0 Set A
2 HDDs in RAID 0 Set B

I will be backing virtual machines from A to B. I've tried using external for that, and it takes too long. The USB 3 external drive is my long-term backup of virtual machines. (VMs grow rapidly and need to be managed as very large objects. You have to have a lot of very high-speed space when you work with those.)

I like your characterization of GIGABYTE vs ASUS. Funny, my reading made me think the opposite until I saw the prices. It's nice to have some personal experience from someone.

 

[loukur]

So your primary concern is budgetary over performance?
Sounds strange for a build with 3 SSD in it.

What is your priority? Price or performance?

Performance.

 

[loukur]

I'm sure you've checked this out, but be sure that the professional modeling and simulation softwares you'll be using can't benefit from NVIDIA CUDA before committing to a Radeon. A GTX 570 might be more suited to your tasks.

I understand this is an ASAP build, so you probably can't wait for sandy bridge to recover, but like WR2 said, I'd sell off the cpu and mobo in april for one of these:

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/203?vs=287

i7 2600k anihilates the x6.

I feel like 3 SSDs is a bad idea right now, too. They will be cheaper and faster later this year. Even right now we're on the cusp of new Sandforce controllers being introduced. A single, 128 GB SSD might be the most judicious route.

The i7 2600k only anihilates the x6 if you can buy one.

Can't RAID one SSD. Yes, over time all technology becomes cheaper and faster.

 

[WR2]

i7-950 & X-58 and a performance enhancing overclock to match the top $1000 CPU performance.
You'd get better overall performance even if the X58 had zero Sata 6GB/s ports.

 

[WR2]

An X-58 board with SATA 6GB/s boot/program SSD and a 1TB SATA 6GB/s primary data HDD drive and you're set. All the rest of your storage can be SATA 3GB/s and power saving 5400RPM drives.

 

[loukur]

What are your SATA 6 and USB 3 requirements? Have you thought about using an expansion card?

For your computer aided software engineering you really want to think about a dual monitor setup. Code on one screen and see the results in the other.

Hmmm, never thought of that. Guess I'll have a use for the old monitor after all. Of course I'll also have to figure out how to set up blankety-blank Windows to do that...

 

[loukur]

An X-58 board with SATA 6GB/s boot/program SSD and a 1TB SATA 6GB/s primary data HDD drive and you're set. All the rest of your storage can be SATA 3GB/s and power saving 5400RPM drives.

Yes, reading up on SSD. Got to figure that out first, then look over this config in respect to that. I started off thinking they were just faster that hard drives. Obviously a lot of other differences.

 

[loukur]

Hello loukur;
You do know that SSDs in raid don't have TRIM support?
Also... don't you think a 128GB SDD is plenty for an OS boot and program disk?
What kinds of programs do have that could fill up 128GB?

I will be using RAID and virtual machines, which both defeat TRIM. I will make sure I get an SSD with background garbase collection capabilities.

 

[someone19]

Instead of your SSD's in raid you should get a revodrive.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227600

Its already raid'd internally and has garbage collection.

 

[mortonww]

The i7 2600k only anihilates the x6 if you can buy one.

Yes, which is why I said "in April".

Can't RAID one SSD. Yes, over time all technology becomes cheaper and faster.

Yes, but in the case of SSDs, we're still in "early adopter" territory, where the change is much much faster than it will be once things settle a bit. But I don't know your specific needs, so maybe 3 SSDs in RAID 0 makes sense and is the only way for you to do what you need to do and must be done before the new Sandforce controllers arrive.

 

[loukur]

Instead of your SSD's in raid you should get a revodrive.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227600

Its already raid'd internally and has garbage collection.

Very cool. Problem is, it is still NAND. I've been reading up on that. I don't like the failure rates or the life expectency. I also don't like the idea of trying to separate read from write. I did see a RAID card that did the separation and would RAID HDDs and SDDs together, moving the writes to HDD and reads to SSD. I just don't think that is possible. Some very exotic statistical analysis would lead to splitting reads and writes, but only in a very non-changing environment.

 

[loukur]

Hello loukur;
You do know that SSDs in raid don't have TRIM support?
Also... don't you think a 128GB SDD is plenty for an OS boot and program disk?
What kinds of programs do have that could fill up 128GB?

After readin up on the extreme shortcomings of SSD, I think I will not become an early adopter. I think I will try to find the fastest HDDs I can and RAID them for performance.

Thanks for the "heads up" on the SSDs.

 

[loukur]

Best answer selected by loukur.