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GTX 580 - Heat, and SC2?

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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December 6, 2010 5:55:28 PM

I bought a GTX 580 SC a couple weeks ago, had it ran Fallout: New Vegas on max settings at 1920x1080 no problem.
Recently, I finally have some free time to play Starcraft 2, and this is where the problem happens.
I noticed there was a loud buzz coming from my computer, which turned out to be the GPU fan. I opened up MSI Afterburner to check. The fan was running at 70% and the temp was fiddling around 88-90°C with GPU load at 100%!

Long story short, I immediately drove to the store and got a replacement (that was yesterday)

So I got my replacement card, went home and did a brief testing.
On Idle, the new card is sitting at about 44°C, and the old one was at 47°C.
In SC2, 1920x1080 in Ultra settings, the new card went up to 87°C, the old card was able to shoot up to 90°C
Here are a few bigger review sites and their results for the 580.

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-r...

This one does not include ambient temp I believe.
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/graphics/2010/11/09/nv...

A better comparison
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4008/nvidias-geforce-gtx-...

Another look at the temp in Full Load
http://www.guru3d.com/article/geforce-gtx-580-review/8

Right now, I don’t have that many games to test with, so we’ll stick with Starcraft 2.
If you do a Google search for SC2 and GTX 580, most people will say the temp will be at mid 70’s running at the exact same ultra settings
SC2 is not exactly a graphic heavy game, and will certainly not exceed what is needed from Crysis (results in the anandtech link)
However, even though my new card is slightly better in thermo performance, both cards were running at exceptionally high heats, considering this is only SC2, and the fan was running at close to 70%, which is quite (actually very) loud due to the heat.

The entire picture doesn’t make sense… So I decided to turn on VSYNC in SC2 and see how it goes; Temperature stabilized at 76°C… ****.
Turns out that with VSYNC off, the cards were running at 100% load (for god knows whatever reason), and the frame rates were high. (150 +- FPS)
With SYNC on, the new card was able to run at 35% load, and FPS was capped at 60 of course. (During tense battles, FPS will drop to 30/15)

This also doesn’t make sense. I know there are a lot of people that don’t have VSYNC on with the GTX 580 in SC2, but their GPU won’t be running at 100% load the entire time.

I heard about SC2 frying cards before, but I thought it was fixed.

I tried it on 8800 GT, 8800 GT SLI, HD 6850, and GTX 470 (before I returned it for the 580) and none of them had the issues mentioned above.

Oh, one more thing, when you start up Starcraft 2 for the first time, it automatically detects your hardware and chooses the "most optimized" settings for Graphics. The GTX 580 was defaulted as "Medium", when the GTX 470 and HD 6850 was able to get all "Ultra" default settings.

Any input would be greatly appreciated!

More about : gtx 580 heat sc2

a b U Graphics card
December 6, 2010 6:02:03 PM

You returned your other card for no reason. There is bug with SC2, as you have discovered. Its aking to running furmark in certain menu screens or area's.
It acts like a virus.
Blizzard Confirms StarCraft II Overheating Bug
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2010/07/28/b...
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December 6, 2010 6:05:50 PM

Thanks for the quick reply.

Yeah, I am aware of the overheating bug as mentioned.

I'm just more concerned about the fact that all the other cards I've tried did NOT have this issue at all, and with the GTX 580 being defaulted with medium graphic settings also raises and eyebrow. I combined all the issues together, and thought it was an issue with the card.

This still doesn't look right.
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a c 595 U Graphics card
December 6, 2010 6:23:28 PM

I never trust when games detect my video hardware and automatically adjusts the settings. Maybe the GTX 580 is just so new, the game doesn't recognize it, so it just goes with Medium settings to be safe. I would treat it as a bug in the game software, and not an indication of anything wrong with the card. In general, a game will detect the video card type, not it's current performance state (normal, overclocked, or defective).
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a b U Graphics card
December 6, 2010 6:30:39 PM

Yea, FEAR 2 defaults my 5850 to 640x480 low settings, even though I get 100+ fps all maxed. Don't worry about it.
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a b U Graphics card
December 6, 2010 6:32:34 PM

Gravien said:

I noticed there was a loud buzz coming from my computer, which turned out to be the CPU fan. I opened up MSI Afterburner to check. The fan was running at 70% and the temp was fiddling around 88-90°C with GPU load at 100%!


I'm guessing "CPU" was a typo.

As for your GPU, those temperatures are nothing alarming quite honestly. The Fermi based Graphics Cards (GTX 400 series and new 500 series) are known to run at fairly high temperatures. So the minor temperature difference from your first card to your second card is nothing to worry about either. Ultimately, as Notty pointed out, SC2 is bugged. Even so, the Fermi cards are known to get fairly warm. :) 

As for defaulting to "medium" graphic settings, I always ignore the game's suggested settings anyhow. The GTX 580 should destroy SC2. Raise your graphic settings and have some fun.

As for VSync: If you have VSync turned on, the graphics card is limited to a number of Frames Per Second equal to your monitor's max refresh rate. So if your monitor is set to "60hz" then it will max your FPS @ 60FPS. So, with VSync off, your card might be able to push 117 FPS, but once you turn VSync on, suddenly the video card's demand is cut nearly in half. This means it doesn't work nearly as hard. Therefore, your temperature and fan speeds reduce.

What you're seeing is exactly what you're supposed to be seeing.

Moral to the story: Your video card (past and present) is working perfectly fine. My GTX 470 has hit a max of 95C with Furmark running several minutes. That's in a very large case with lots of cool air intake.
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December 6, 2010 6:48:20 PM

jerreece said:
I'm guessing "CPU" was a typo.

As for your GPU, those temperatures are nothing alarming quite honestly. The Fermi based Graphics Cards (GTX 400 series and new 500 series) are known to run at fairly high temperatures. So the minor temperature difference from your first card to your second card is nothing to worry about either. Ultimately, as Notty pointed out, SC2 is bugged. Even so, the Fermi cards are known to get fairly warm. :) 

As for defaulting to "medium" graphic settings, I always ignore the game's suggested settings anyhow. The GTX 580 should destroy SC2. Raise your graphic settings and have some fun.

As for VSync: If you have VSync turned on, the graphics card is limited to a number of Frames Per Second equal to your monitor's max refresh rate. So if your monitor is set to "60hz" then it will max your FPS @ 60FPS. So, with VSync off, your card might be able to push 117 FPS, but once you turn VSync on, suddenly the video card's demand is cut nearly in half. This means it doesn't work nearly as hard. Therefore, your temperature and fan speeds reduce.

What you're seeing is exactly what you're supposed to be seeing.

Moral to the story: Your video card (past and present) is working perfectly fine. My GTX 470 has hit a max of 95C with Furmark running several minutes. That's in a very large case with lots of cool air intake.


Yes, the CPU was a typo :p 

What I'm trying to say is, there are many people with the GTX 580 running SC2without vysnc, under ultra settings @ 1920x1080, are able to get very high frame rates and the card's temperature kept at a constant 76°C and the GPU load at 35-40%.

I cannot do that, unless I turn vsync on. My card runs at 87°C+ and at 100% load without vsync. But even so, I have to take a hit on FPS during tense action.

Right now I'm trying to find out what the "problem" is.
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a b U Graphics card
December 6, 2010 6:52:48 PM

Me thinks you keep looking for this 'problem'
You thought that about your other card, cards and
Quote:
I immediately drove to the store and got a replacement (that was yesterday)

What exactly are you expecting ? To get similar temps to someone else not knowing their case, room temperature, tech level ?

A game may auto-detect, when the gpu has lowered its clock speed in a power saving mode. One time, you might have entered the game when this happened and another not.

I notice that very often, especially with SLI. One gpu stays at 50mhz, the other or both then only raise to 425mhz. For those games, I go in to the individual profile and check 'prefer maximum performance' instead of any power saving mode.
And yes then the games give higher fps.

Can I recommend you installing and running a couple benchmarks and report your results.
May prove whether you just have the game configured wrong, or have your drivers screwed up.

http://www.techpowerup.com/downloads/1805/AVP_Aliens_vs...
http://www.techpowerup.com/downloads/1799/Unigine_Heave...
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a b U Graphics card
December 6, 2010 6:54:02 PM

That all depends on the ambient temps and case cooling, I don't think your card is bad
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December 6, 2010 6:57:29 PM

wiinippongamer said:
That all depends on the ambient temps and case cooling, I don't think your card is bad


My ambient temp is 20°C, and the case is pretty much open right now since I'm fiddling with the card.

This does not explain all the other issues though. Heat is related to my question, but not directly as an issue.
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a b U Graphics card
December 6, 2010 7:11:22 PM

Honestly Gravien, I don't think there's actually any problem. Everything you're saying sounds like your card is operating as I would expect it to.

And comparing your card temps versus someone else, even with the exact same card, is difficult. Room temperatures, graphic settings, case model, number of intake fans, cable routing, all have affect on your GPU temps.

And, again, you're testing all this with SC2 which is known to create this kind of bug. That doesn't mean it ALWAYS does it. So some folks with the GTX 580 may play it fine, while others see what you're seeing.
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December 6, 2010 7:18:29 PM

jerreece said:
Honestly Gravien, I don't think there's actually any problem. Everything you're saying sounds like your card is operating as I would expect it to.

And comparing your card temps versus someone else, even with the exact same card, is difficult. Room temperatures, graphic settings, case model, number of intake fans, cable routing, all have affect on your GPU temps.

And, again, you're testing all this with SC2 which is known to create this kind of bug. That doesn't mean it ALWAYS does it. So some folks with the GTX 580 may play it fine, while others see what you're seeing.


I appreciate the thoughts, but this is definitely not right.
I tried it with 2 separate GTX 580 cards, did a fresh windows 7 and SC2 install after formatting the entire computer, fresh drivers etc. Problem ensues.

I know 2 people in person that has the same card and have no such problem. The bug was supposedly fixed patches ago, and it doesn't make sense that this bug would randomly pop up (or more like every time in my case) while others never had it.

I'm interested to see if any other 580 users that have SC2, have this issue or not. If no one else have this problem but me, either my cards are bad (they are from the same batch from the same store), or something else is terribly wrong, which is not likely.
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a b U Graphics card
December 6, 2010 7:20:47 PM

Have you tried different nVidia driver versions? Uninstall your drivers, use Driver Sweeper or something to fully remove. Reinstall.
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a c 595 U Graphics card
December 6, 2010 7:31:35 PM

jerreece said:
Have you tried different ATI driver versions? Uninstall your drivers, use Driver Sweeper or something to fully remove. Reinstall.

I think we all know you meant to write "Nvidia".

I believe that the graphics card will still run at near 100% load even on a relatively non-demanding game. Whether its TFC or Metro 2033 (or SC2) you will still reach the same load temps and GPU usage numbers. I think.
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December 6, 2010 8:05:29 PM

17seconds said:
I think we all know you meant to write "Nvidia".

I believe that the graphics card will still run at near 100% load even on a relatively non-demanding game. Whether its TFC or Metro 2033 (or SC2) you will still reach the same load temps and GPU usage numbers. I think.


For drivers, it is currently running 263.09 for Windos 7 64bit.
I forgot the exact name for the previous version, but there are only 2 versions so far I believe.

I actually reformatted my entire computer, fresh Windows 7 and Starcraft 2 install, etc.. I'm sure everything is a "clean" install.

I can't comment on TFC or Metro 2033 since I don't own them, but I'm pretty sure the GPU running close to 100% load shouldn't be the case. Just take a look at all those reviews in the OP, and the benchmarks they've gotten in these games. As mentioned, my SC2 without vysnc is drawing more GPU load than Crysis on enthusiast settigns. That's not right.
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a b U Graphics card
December 6, 2010 8:09:48 PM

17seconds said:
I think we all know you meant to write "Nvidia".


LOL Yes, thank you. I've corrected the typo. Was also responding to another thread with someone having issues with their ATI 5870. Crossing wavelengths.

Gravien,

Ever heard of the term hypochondriac? I don't mean to be insulting, but sometimes folks just convince themselves that something is gravely wrong when nothing is actually amiss. I think most folks in this thread have tried to show you that your video card isn't working abnormally. Could you have better cooling? Sure. Could SC2 be better written? Yes. Ultimately though, the Fermi cards tend to run hot. And SC2 is known to have issues that cause the type of thing you're seeing.

Having tried two video cards already, and formatting your PC, I think we've fairly well ruled out anything else causing problems. So short of buying a different brand GTX 580 with an aftermarket cooler, I doubt you're going to find any lower temps.

The fact that Crysis uses less GPU than SC2 does, reinforces the fact that this is an SC2 problem, and not a GPU problem. LOL

You could also try posting in the Support forums for SC2 over at Blizzard. You might find help specific to SC2 on this topic, as it sounds like it's a game problem.
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December 6, 2010 8:25:28 PM

jerreece said:
LOL Yes, thank you. I've corrected the typo. Was also responding to another thread with someone having issues with their ATI 5870. Crossing wavelengths.

Gravien,

Ever heard of the term hypochondriac? I don't mean to be insulting, but sometimes folks just convince themselves that something is gravely wrong when nothing is actually amiss. I think most folks in this thread have tried to show you that your video card isn't working abnormally. Could you have better cooling? Sure. Could SC2 be better written? Yes. Ultimately though, the Fermi cards tend to run hot. And SC2 is known to have issues that cause the type of thing you're seeing.

Having tried two video cards already, and formatting your PC, I think we've fairly well ruled out anything else causing problems. So short of buying a different brand GTX 580 with an aftermarket cooler, I doubt you're going to find any lower temps.

The fact that Crysis uses less GPU than SC2 does, reinforces the fact that this is an SC2 problem, and not a GPU problem. LOL

You could also try posting in the Support forums for SC2 over at Blizzard. You might find help specific to SC2 on this topic, as it sounds like it's a game problem.


No insults taken :p 

No, I don't have Crysis, I only have this god damned SC2. I'm only comparing my result to all the other benchmarks available on the net.

Temp is not exactly the issue anymore, or at all, since it is very normal for the card at 100% load to be at 87°C. It's more so why SC2, a graphic "inferior" game would draw 100% load, even after the bug was patched, while just staring at grass in game.

Like discussed, I did a clean install of everything, yet the problem is still there. I haven't heard of this problem from other any other 580 users (yet), which I'm actually hoping at least someone else out there has the same problem.
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a b U Graphics card
December 6, 2010 11:04:37 PM

This is a dumb answer but even though you know of the bug did you fix it?(As in going to your "Documents" folder and adding the Framerate Cap?
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a b U Graphics card
December 6, 2010 11:21:12 PM

I would say adjust your fan profile if it bothers you. If you don't want the card hitting 87 then have the fan hit 100% at 87°
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a c 595 U Graphics card
December 7, 2010 1:14:50 AM

benski said:
I would say adjust your fan profile if it bothers you. If you don't want the card hitting 87 then have the fan hit 100% at 87°

I read in one of the reviews that the fan limit is set to not go above 80% or something like that.
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a b U Graphics card
December 7, 2010 3:39:21 AM

17seconds said:
I read in one of the reviews that the fan limit is set to not go above 80% or something like that.


I recall reading that nVidia did some tweaking to the Thermal Management within the GTX 580 GPU. So it's supposed to manage power and thermal use/output better than earlier Fermi cards. This was supposedly how they were able to fully enable all the Fermi cores while keeping temperatures at or lower than GTX 480 levels. Plus they changed the way their cooler works.

Tom's 580 review touches on this a bit:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-gtx-580-gf1...
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December 7, 2010 3:51:04 PM

plznote said:
This is a dumb answer but even though you know of the bug did you fix it?(As in going to your "Documents" folder and adding the Framerate Cap?


The bug was already patched months ago. It was a bug that caused cards to fry since there was no frame cap at the menu screen.

benski said:
I would say adjust your fan profile if it bothers you. If you don't want the card hitting 87 then have the fan hit 100% at 87°


Like mentioned, it's not exactly the heat and noise that is bothering me. If something is legitimately drawing 100% load from the GPU, heating up to 87°C is totally normal and I won't have any problems with that. However, this is not the case here.
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a c 595 U Graphics card
December 7, 2010 3:56:09 PM

There is a setting in the Nvidia Control Panel for something like Power Management (not sure exactly what it's called). It can be set to "Prefer Maximum Performance" or "Balanced". Maybe you could look at that setting and move it from maximum performance to balanced. (Sorry, I'm on a laptop, and not my home PC with the Nvidia Control Panel to refer to.)
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