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Laptop hard drive reliability -- the bigger the poorer?

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Anonymous
a b D Laptop
March 19, 2005 3:23:12 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

Are large laptop HDs, say, 60 to 100 GB, inherently more likely to fail
than smaller ones, say, 30 GB? I wonder about this because they pack
information more densely, with more platters and more complexity, if
I'm not mistaken.

I'm going to buy one abroad and it probably will have only a very
limited local warranty, that's why I ask. Thanks for your thoughts.
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
March 19, 2005 3:46:26 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

Arvo wrote:
> Are large laptop HDs, say, 60 to 100 GB, inherently more likely to fail
> than smaller ones, say, 30 GB? I wonder about this because they pack
> information more densely, with more platters and more complexity, if
> I'm not mistaken.
>
> I'm going to buy one abroad and it probably will have only a very
> limited local warranty, that's why I ask. Thanks for your thoughts.
>
I am not sure what you mean when you say abroad since I don't know where
you live but I have been using an 80G for nearly two years without any
problem. I cannot say anything about 100G, may be someone has some
experience but they are fairly new anyway.

--
John Doue
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
March 19, 2005 3:46:27 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

John Doue wrote:
>
> Arvo wrote:
> > Are large laptop HDs, say, 60 to 100 GB, inherently more likely to fail
> > than smaller ones, say, 30 GB? I wonder about this because they pack
> > information more densely, with more platters and more complexity, if
> > I'm not mistaken.
> >
> > I'm going to buy one abroad and it probably will have only a very
> > limited local warranty, that's why I ask. Thanks for your thoughts.
> >
> I am not sure what you mean when you say abroad since I don't know where
> you live but I have been using an 80G for nearly two years without any
> problem. I cannot say anything about 100G, may be someone has some
> experience but they are fairly new anyway.

100 GB, new? Not even close.

Terabyte drives are now entering the consumer market.

Notan
Related resources
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
March 19, 2005 4:14:40 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

Notan wrote:

> John Doue wrote:
>>
>> Arvo wrote:
>> > Are large laptop HDs, say, 60 to 100 GB, inherently more likely to fail
>> > than smaller ones, say, 30 GB? I wonder about this because they pack
>> > information more densely, with more platters and more complexity, if
>> > I'm not mistaken.
>> >
>> > I'm going to buy one abroad and it probably will have only a very
>> > limited local warranty, that's why I ask. Thanks for your thoughts.
>> >
>> I am not sure what you mean when you say abroad since I don't know where
>> you live but I have been using an 80G for nearly two years without any
>> problem. I cannot say anything about 100G, may be someone has some
>> experience but they are fairly new anyway.
>
> 100 GB, new? Not even close.
>
> Terabyte drives are now entering the consumer market.

Nope. (a) for laptops 100 gig is the largest available drive, and (b) the
largest available drive of any kind is 400 gig. There are some 500s
announced but not yet available in stores. The terabyte external drives
that you see advertised are not single drives in a box, they are arrays of
various kinds. Since they are necessarily implemented using at least 3
drives I do hope that they are RAID5 or better.

> Notan

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
March 19, 2005 4:14:41 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

"J. Clarke" wrote:
>
> Notan wrote:
>
> > John Doue wrote:
> >>
> >> Arvo wrote:
> >> > Are large laptop HDs, say, 60 to 100 GB, inherently more likely to fail
> >> > than smaller ones, say, 30 GB? I wonder about this because they pack
> >> > information more densely, with more platters and more complexity, if
> >> > I'm not mistaken.
> >> >
> >> > I'm going to buy one abroad and it probably will have only a very
> >> > limited local warranty, that's why I ask. Thanks for your thoughts.
> >> >
> >> I am not sure what you mean when you say abroad since I don't know where
> >> you live but I have been using an 80G for nearly two years without any
> >> problem. I cannot say anything about 100G, may be someone has some
> >> experience but they are fairly new anyway.
> >
> > 100 GB, new? Not even close.
> >
> > Terabyte drives are now entering the consumer market.
>
> Nope. (a) for laptops 100 gig is the largest available drive, and (b) the
> largest available drive of any kind is 400 gig. There are some 500s
> announced but not yet available in stores. The terabyte external drives
> that you see advertised are not single drives in a box, they are arrays of
> various kinds. Since they are necessarily implemented using at least 3
> drives I do hope that they are RAID5 or better.

While John Doue was kind enough to wake me up, and remind me that we're
in a laptop newsgroup, terabyte drives *are,* in fact, available in
"single boxes."

For example, have a look at http://www.provantage.com/scripts/search.dll/x/0.

Notan
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
March 19, 2005 4:14:42 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

Notan <notan@ddress.com> writes:
> While John Doue was kind enough to wake me up, and remind me that we're
> in a laptop newsgroup, terabyte drives *are,* in fact, available in
> "single boxes."
>
> For example, have a look at http://www.provantage.com/scripts/search.dll/x/0.

I don't see any terabyte drives there. As J. Clarke says, there are
some boxes containing >= a terabyte of storage, but those boxes have
multiple drives inside.
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
March 19, 2005 4:53:34 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

Paul Rubin wrote:
>
> Notan <notan@ddress.com> writes:
> > While John Doue was kind enough to wake me up, and remind me that we're
> > in a laptop newsgroup, terabyte drives *are,* in fact, available in
> > "single boxes."
> >
> > For example, have a look at http://www.provantage.com/scripts/search.dll/x/0.
>
> I don't see any terabyte drives there. As J. Clarke says, there are
> some boxes containing >= a terabyte of storage, but those boxes have
> multiple drives inside.

Multiple drives or multiple platters?

Notan
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
March 19, 2005 5:12:31 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

Paul Rubin wrote:
>
> Notan <notan@ddress.com> writes:
> > While John Doue was kind enough to wake me up, and remind me that we're
> > in a laptop newsgroup, terabyte drives *are,* in fact, available in
> > "single boxes."
> >
> > For example, have a look at http://www.provantage.com/scripts/search.dll/x/0.
>
> I don't see any terabyte drives there. As J. Clarke says, there are
> some boxes containing >= a terabyte of storage, but those boxes have
> multiple drives inside.

It's possible the URL, that I provided, didn't go to where I intended...

How about http://www.provantage.com/pr_86988.htm?

Notan
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
March 19, 2005 7:32:09 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

Notan wrote:
> John Doue wrote:
>
>>Arvo wrote:
>>
>>>Are large laptop HDs, say, 60 to 100 GB, inherently more likely to fail
>>>than smaller ones, say, 30 GB? I wonder about this because they pack
>>>information more densely, with more platters and more complexity, if
>>>I'm not mistaken.
>>>
>>>I'm going to buy one abroad and it probably will have only a very
>>>limited local warranty, that's why I ask. Thanks for your thoughts.
>>>
>>
>>I am not sure what you mean when you say abroad since I don't know where
>>you live but I have been using an 80G for nearly two years without any
>>problem. I cannot say anything about 100G, may be someone has some
>>experience but they are fairly new anyway.
>
>
> 100 GB, new? Not even close.
>
> Terabyte drives are now entering the consumer market.
>
> Notan
Notan, wake up, this is a laptop group!

--
John Doue
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
March 19, 2005 7:32:10 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

John Doue wrote:
>
> Notan wrote:
> > John Doue wrote:
> >
> >>Arvo wrote:
> >>
> >>>Are large laptop HDs, say, 60 to 100 GB, inherently more likely to fail
> >>>than smaller ones, say, 30 GB? I wonder about this because they pack
> >>>information more densely, with more platters and more complexity, if
> >>>I'm not mistaken.
> >>>
> >>>I'm going to buy one abroad and it probably will have only a very
> >>>limited local warranty, that's why I ask. Thanks for your thoughts.
> >>>
> >>
> >>I am not sure what you mean when you say abroad since I don't know where
> >>you live but I have been using an 80G for nearly two years without any
> >>problem. I cannot say anything about 100G, may be someone has some
> >>experience but they are fairly new anyway.
> >
> >
> > 100 GB, new? Not even close.
> >
> > Terabyte drives are now entering the consumer market.
> >
> > Notan
> Notan, wake up, this is a laptop group!

Sorry. I posted before my first cup of coffee.

Notan
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
March 19, 2005 8:26:13 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

Notan wrote:

> Paul Rubin wrote:
>>
>> Notan <notan@ddress.com> writes:
>> > While John Doue was kind enough to wake me up, and remind me that we're
>> > in a laptop newsgroup, terabyte drives *are,* in fact, available in
>> > "single boxes."
>> >
>> > For example, have a look at
>> > http://www.provantage.com/scripts/search.dll/x/0.
>>
>> I don't see any terabyte drives there. As J. Clarke says, there are
>> some boxes containing >= a terabyte of storage, but those boxes have
>> multiple drives inside.
>
> It's possible the URL, that I provided, didn't go to where I intended...
>
> How about http://www.provantage.com/pr_86988.htm?

Yeah, that's a Lacie drive array. Four drives in a box. See
<http://www.biosmagazine.co.uk/article.php?id=1067&gt;.
>
> Notan

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
March 19, 2005 8:26:14 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

"J. Clarke" wrote:
>
> Notan wrote:
>
> > Paul Rubin wrote:
> >>
> >> Notan <notan@ddress.com> writes:
> >> > While John Doue was kind enough to wake me up, and remind me that we're
> >> > in a laptop newsgroup, terabyte drives *are,* in fact, available in
> >> > "single boxes."
> >> >
> >> > For example, have a look at
> >> > http://www.provantage.com/scripts/search.dll/x/0.
> >>
> >> I don't see any terabyte drives there. As J. Clarke says, there are
> >> some boxes containing >= a terabyte of storage, but those boxes have
> >> multiple drives inside.
> >
> > It's possible the URL, that I provided, didn't go to where I intended...
> >
> > How about http://www.provantage.com/pr_86988.htm?
>
> Yeah, that's a Lacie drive array. Four drives in a box. See
> <http://www.biosmagazine.co.uk/article.php?id=1067&gt;.

Got it.

Thanks for the education!

Notan
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
March 19, 2005 8:29:18 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

Notan wrote:

> Paul Rubin wrote:
>>
>> Notan <notan@ddress.com> writes:
>> > While John Doue was kind enough to wake me up, and remind me that we're
>> > in a laptop newsgroup, terabyte drives *are,* in fact, available in
>> > "single boxes."
>> >
>> > For example, have a look at
>> > http://www.provantage.com/scripts/search.dll/x/0.
>>
>> I don't see any terabyte drives there. As J. Clarke says, there are
>> some boxes containing >= a terabyte of storage, but those boxes have
>> multiple drives inside.
>
> Multiple drives or multiple platters?

Multiple drives. Lacie does not make drives. They buy drives from Seagate
or Maxtor or Hitachi or Western Digital or one of the other companies that
does, and puts them in a box with a power supply and a bridge board.

> Notan

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
March 20, 2005 1:05:28 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

Notan <notan@ddress.com> wrote:
> Paul Rubin wrote:
>>
>> Notan <notan@ddress.com> writes:
>> > While John Doue was kind enough to wake me up, and remind me that we're
>> > in a laptop newsgroup, terabyte drives *are,* in fact, available in
>> > "single boxes."
>> >
>> > For example, have a look at http://www.provantage.com/scripts/search.dll/x/0.
>>
>> I don't see any terabyte drives there. As J. Clarke says, there are
>> some boxes containing >= a terabyte of storage, but those boxes have
>> multiple drives inside.
>
> It's possible the URL, that I provided, didn't go to where I intended...
>
> How about http://www.provantage.com/pr_86988.htm?
>
> Notan

As previously speculated, that "drive" actually contains 4 normal 3.5"
250GB ATA/133 "drives" inside of it:

http://www.macworld.com/2004/05/reviews/lacoebiggerdisk...

By that same standard, Apple sells a 5.6TB "drive" for $13k.

To clear up the terminology.... rather than "boxes" or "drives" the term
"spindle" is what you're looking for. A TB on a single spindle is not
available right now.
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
March 20, 2005 2:29:27 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

> Are large laptop HDs, say, 60 to 100 GB, inherently more likely to fail
> than smaller ones, say, 30 GB? I wonder about this because they pack
> information more densely, with more platters and more complexity, if
> I'm not mistaken.

HD data capacity depends on 2 factors:
o Areal density -- and importantly the head technology to read it
---- areal density uses fewer crystals to retain the 0 or 1 bit
---- however head technology, ECC & media has improved
o Number of platters -- laptops are thickness limited
---- increases in Areal density has allowed a reduction in platters
---- more platters means more heat in the FDB bearing, motor etc

Recently HD makers moved to glass platters from aluminium:
o Glass platters can be made "flatter" - allowing more uniform coatings
---- important since latest areal density uses multi-layer coatings
o Glass introduces a new potential risk - microscope slide thickness
---- bashed drive with alloy platters -- remove them for data recovery
---- based drive with glass platters -- hire the NSA

For practical purposes, it's the usual story - backup :-)

An argument is 4200rpm 2.5" HD is more established than 7200rpm:
o Cost difference between 4200rpm & 7200rpm is likely to be marginal
---- incremental difference in FDB-Motor, chipset, head etc
o Price difference between them is likely to be considerable
---- 4200rpm = less pricing power, less margin, more competition = cash-dog
-------- invites QC step removal (production line cycle time) & outsourcing
---- 7200rpm = high pricing power, more margin, fewer competitors = cash-cow
-------- risk is largely that of new technology re early adoption & design failure
o Latest drives benefit from very different concept-design-build process
---- Physics of Failure (PoF), Eng & QC will be superior on a later drive
---- known unknowns in terms of product risk are smaller, better understood

Hence CDR quality went variable once priced dropped below a certain level,
since it was no longer a sufficient cash-cow for the company. Big companies
hit the law of big numbers - if you sell 50B$ then a new product that makes
you 0.5B$ is still 500M, but it doesn't impact on the bottom line much. There
is as much a portfolio of costs re "make or buy, do or dump". There comes
a point when the latter product can be "safer" than the older technologies.

So packing data more densely, more complexity is not likely to be a big
issue - cooling may be for some drives (eg, 7200rpm over 4200rpm).

Thermal dissipation is the likely sole risk:
o ID where you are now
---- ID the dissipation (W) of the drive supplied with your laptop
---- ID the present operating temp - HDDTemp using S.M.A.R.T. s/w
o ID where you want to go
---- ID the dissipation (W) of the drive you wish to fit

If the proposed HD dissipates > watts than your existing HD, then you
ideally want your existing HD to operate comparatively below max spec.

Generally the only risk re bigger HDs is in battery life due to current draw.
o Yes a 7200rpm or 5400rpm drive transfers data quicker re SDTR than 4200rpm
---- whilst more current is drawn, it is drawn for a shorter time
o However if the application is all I/O seeking, there may be shorter battery life
---- seeking time is slow electromechanical latency, current draw for longer
o So the actual impact on battery life depends on application-set & data-set

Sad that more makers don't put the drive in a shock-mounted caddy.
There is a small space impact, but it need only be about 3mm around the drive
if the recent Poron shock absorbing materials are used. Peanuts too in quantity.

Drive life still comes down to temperature pretty much as primary failure mode.
--
Dorothy Bradbury
www.dorothybradbury.co.uk for quiet Panaflo fans, free delivery
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
March 20, 2005 4:42:44 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

Dorothy, so I gather that you feel that temperature is the key issue.
Well, then, is an older slower drive going to heat up less than a newer
faster one?

Actually, I have an older laptop and it sits on my desk most of the
time with the top cover removed so that the HD is exposed to the open
air. My current HD is 30 GB and I want to get another one to back it
up. I plan to put the second hard drive in one of those external USB
boxes. Now, those are pretty small and I don't know how well ventilated
they are.

I am looking to go for the most storage for least dollars, and don't
care about speed so much, as I never have the latest equipment.

How do you feel about the external boxes? Are they reliable? Are they
more likely to cause drive failure due to poor ventilation? I have seen
full size hard drive external boxes with fans, but the boxes for the
laptop hard drives are much smaller and never seem to have fans.
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
March 20, 2005 9:29:36 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

On Sat, 19 Mar 2005 23:29:27 GMT, "Dorothy Bradbury"
<dorothy.bradbury@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>Sad that more makers don't put the drive in a shock-mounted caddy.
>There is a small space impact, but it need only be about 3mm around the drive
>if the recent Poron shock absorbing materials are used. Peanuts too in quantity.

Just curious: which manufacturers are doing this? Are you referring to
what IBM calls "HDD Shock Absorber" (available on some Thinkpads)?

Thanks, Dominique
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
March 20, 2005 7:37:43 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

> Just curious: which manufacturers are doing this? Are you referring to
> what IBM calls "HDD Shock Absorber" (available on some Thinkpads)?

There are 2 approaches to shock absorbing, and can be combined:
o Drive sits in a shock-absorber
---- Toughbook -- new use Poron, older use Sorbothane gel
-------- I think Poron gives same cushioning from less thickness
---- Dell -- old Dells had the drive in a gel bag, now I think just some Latitudes
---- IBM -- some IBMs use a thin shock absorbing membrane (Poron I guess)
o Drive detects G acceleration & parks heads
---- IBM developed this to stop heads smacking into platters
---- basically it gouges the platter as it spins like a bouncing bomb

I suspect the IBM Thinkpads use both the G-detect & membrane.

Remember a drive has 2 shock limits, and a vibration limit:
o Operating shock is *much* lower than non-operating shock
---- solution is a) sway space & cushioning -- poor in a laptop
---- alternatively b) detect the G & park the heads -- ideal in a laptop
o Vibration limit which is very low for operating shock
---- solution is a visco-elastic cushioning material
---- basically a) absorbs 80-97% of the energy, b) slow rebound so doesn't double-G
---- additionally c) be as thin as possible -- re laptop packaging

Laptop packaging is really quite ugly:
o PCBs can withstand 1,000G for short-duration -- risk is heatinks = copper = mass
o Casing needs to be unbelievably stiff -- solution is mag-alloy or carbon-fibre
o Hard-drives are the risk factor -- laptop can be replaced/insured, HD can't

The Toughbooks sound a good idea - but are very expensive:
o It is not expensive to shock mount just the HD -- and insure the rest
---- in terms of TCO it is actually far more economic than a Toughbook
o Toughbooks are about usability in such environments
---- not just shock, but water - and ability to keep operating

All laptop makers could introduce a 3mm pad around the HD:
o E-A-R ConFor foam -- downside is hardness at low temps, less of a risk for laptops
o Sorbothane gel -- proven on the early P1 & P2 Toughbooks
o Poron material -- proven to give benefit in less than 3mm & used in medicine

Poron is well proven in the medical area, as is ConFor foam.

The simplest would be to stick a 2.5" drive in an external case and fit some corner
pads of Sorbothane. That drive is then both portable, external (offline + elsewhere),
and also offers a degree of ruggedness to protect what matters - the data.
Even simpler is to backup to a remote server somewhere, for some that can be too
difficult re bandwidth & data-set size, but for others it's a useful option. Many ISPs
give free web/ftp-space, WinZIP supports AES encryption etc.
--
Dorothy Bradbury
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
March 20, 2005 7:37:45 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

> Dorothy, so I gather that you feel that temperature is the key issue.
> Well, then, is an older slower drive going to heat up less than a newer
> faster one?

It comes down to the drive :-)
o Very old drives had low areal density, so more platters - 12.5-19mm
o Recent drives fit far more density per platter - so thinner

Most laptops are ok on drive cooling:
o The only time it may become marginal is re multi-hour continuous I/O
o That is near enough uniquely limited to a) server blade or b) virus scan

> Actually, I have an older laptop and it sits on my desk most of the
> time with the top cover removed so that the HD is exposed to the open
> air. My current HD is 30 GB and I want to get another one to back it
> up. I plan to put the second hard drive in one of those external USB
> boxes. Now, those are pretty small and I don't know how well ventilated
> they are.

Those external enclosures mainly cool by conduction & convection.
Again, they are largely ok - drives to not dissipate many watts, the only
critical area on laptop cooling is when doing a virus scan of 40GB+.

Generally a drive spends life at near idle - low temps:
o During winter say 37oC, during spring say 40oC, summer 45oC

However the max op temp is typically 50, 52, 55oC
o You can exceed that temperature, just life is shortened progressively
o You can undercut that temperature, so life is lengthened progressively

So it comes down to the "on balance figure"
o Which for most laptops is well within spec even if 7200rpm or 100GB

The only time when this isn't true is where it isn't in a normal laptop:
o Blade servers increasingly use 2.5" drives
----- as such they are used 24/7 in continuous I/O operation
o Hence Hitachi make EK7, extended 24/7 continuous use, rated drives

So on balance it is simple prudence.
If the existing design is marginal - eg, at idle HDDTemp reports 55oC
when it should be more like 40-42oC for a 4200rpm drive - then I would
suggest a 5400rpm HD over a 7200rpm HD.

> I am looking to go for the most storage for least dollars, and don't
> care about speed so much, as I never have the latest equipment.

Wise, since it will obsolete just the same despite the price premium.
I would look at 5400rpm drives over 7200rpm - eg, Seagate Momentus,
since they tend to provide higher capacity at a better price point.

> How do you feel about the external boxes? Are they reliable? Are they
> more likely to cause drive failure due to poor ventilation? I have seen
> full size hard drive external boxes with fans, but the boxes for the
> laptop hard drives are much smaller and never seem to have fans.

Yes the external boxes are reliable - simple right-angle PCB mounted USB
micro-connector for outside, drive mini-IDE connector, surface mount bits.

Remember USB ports are limited to 500ma per port, so...
o Ideally the external USB enclosure should plug into 2 USB ports
---- one is for data-transfer, the two combined are to share the power draw
o So avoiding the laptop pico-fuse cutout/reset problem
---- generally that is unlikely, the ports are simply limited on power

It just means you can't plug multiple USB-powered items into a laptop.
--
Dorothy Bradbury
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
March 21, 2005 9:18:40 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

>It just means you can't >plug multiple USB-powered >items into a
laptop.

Thanks for the advice, Dorothy. But are you saying that I can only have
one USB powered item at a time? I've already got three -- an optical
mouse and two USB pen drives--connected to a 4 port USB hub, which is
in turn connected to my one and only USB port on this old laptop! So
the external HD will not work with this setup???
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
March 21, 2005 8:06:27 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

Arvo <arvo@goggo.com.au> wrote:
>>It just means you can't >plug multiple USB-powered >items into a
> laptop.
>
> Thanks for the advice, Dorothy. But are you saying that I can only have
> one USB powered item at a time? I've already got three -- an optical
> mouse and two USB pen drives--connected to a 4 port USB hub, which is
> in turn connected to my one and only USB port on this old laptop! So
> the external HD will not work with this setup???
>

While optical mice and pen drives aren't particularly energy-hungry
when compared to hard drives and the like, it is possible that you'll
experience a problem if you have everything hooked up at once. I'd
recommend getting a powered USB hub, or getting a power brick for your
current hub if it'll take one. A powered hub will provide power to all
the devices, rather than doling out the power coming from your laptop's
USB port.
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
March 22, 2005 10:42:55 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

Wbw--

I am very portable and like to keep things light, and also don't want
to buy expensive stuff for this obsolete, moribund laptop if I don't
have to. Do you think I would have a problem running the external HD if
I removed all the other devices so the HD was the only thing drawing
power from the hub?

I'm even wondering if some of these external boxes come with optional
external power supplies.

Thanks.
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
March 22, 2005 7:58:30 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

Arvo <arvo@goggo.com.au> wrote:
> Wbw--
>
> I am very portable and like to keep things light, and also don't want
> to buy expensive stuff for this obsolete, moribund laptop if I don't
> have to. Do you think I would have a problem running the external HD if
> I removed all the other devices so the HD was the only thing drawing
> power from the hub?
>
> I'm even wondering if some of these external boxes come with optional
> external power supplies.
>
> Thanks.

Well, it's hard to say really, without testing your particular laptop.
Some people have commented on NewEgg that they were unable to get some
enclosures working even on desktop machines, which presumably have
appropriate juice to their USB connectors. It probably depends just
as much on the hard drive as the enclosure.

Some of these enclosures even require two USB connectors, or one USB
connector and one PS/2 connector for power. I haven't been able to
find a 2.5" enclosure on NewEgg that explicitly states that it will
accept an external power source. All 3.5" enclosures will require an
external power supply, so you're safe if you go that route, although
you'll be facing a larger/heavier enclosure.

Really, though, a power supply for a USB hub will be no bigger than
one for a hard drive.
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
March 22, 2005 7:58:31 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

wbw <wbwither@y-a-h-double-o.com> writes:
> Some of these enclosures even require two USB connectors, or one USB
> connector and one PS/2 connector for power. I haven't been able to
> find a 2.5" enclosure on NewEgg that explicitly states that it will
> accept an external power source.

The one I got from zipzoomfly can accept external power.

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?Product...
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
March 22, 2005 8:56:01 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

wbw wrote:

> Arvo <arvo@goggo.com.au> wrote:
>
>>Wbw--
>>
>>I am very portable and like to keep things light, and also don't want
>>to buy expensive stuff for this obsolete, moribund laptop if I don't
>>have to. Do you think I would have a problem running the external HD if
>>I removed all the other devices so the HD was the only thing drawing
>>power from the hub?
>>
>>I'm even wondering if some of these external boxes come with optional
>>external power supplies.
>>
>>Thanks.
>
>
> Well, it's hard to say really, without testing your particular laptop.
> Some people have commented on NewEgg that they were unable to get some
> enclosures working even on desktop machines, which presumably have
> appropriate juice to their USB connectors. It probably depends just
> as much on the hard drive as the enclosure.
>
> Some of these enclosures even require two USB connectors, or one USB
> connector and one PS/2 connector for power. I haven't been able to
> find a 2.5" enclosure on NewEgg that explicitly states that it will
> accept an external power source. All 3.5" enclosures will require an
> external power supply, so you're safe if you go that route, although
> you'll be facing a larger/heavier enclosure.
>
> Really, though, a power supply for a USB hub will be no bigger than
> one for a hard drive.
I have refrained so far to intervene but I feel that Firewire should
always be kept in mind in such cases. I have never attempted NOT to use
an external power supply: once you accept the fact you need one,
everything becomes simple. I personally use an Avermedia Firewire
enclosure to my complete satisfaction, essentially for back up purposes.

As far as I am concerned, I prefer to have a small power brick (the type
that has recessing prongs sold by Radio Shack) than those clumsy
arrangements with two cables you never know an unknown machine will be
able to accomodate. So USB or Firewire, get the small power supply for a
few dollars and get back to work.

--
John Doue
!