# Critical: Way too much Bot fighters from nest

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Anonymous

Sparrow wrote in a BB at Drewhead:

"A single insectoid nest now give
Insectoid nest builds 1000 new type 1 fighters.
Insectoid nest builds 333 new type 2 fighters.
Insectoid nest builds 20 new type 3 fighters
The value in cash I received is way too much! This is in no relation to my current economy!

I don't know how my fellow Bot feels about it, but you other players should be aware of this. If a rollback and waiting for
another host with less fighters is an option, then I vote for it!

This decision needs to be done quickly, as I already see the first new .trn sent in!"

GFM GToeroe
Anonymous

Calculating:

Type 1s 1000 * 5 = 5000
Type 2s 333 * 30 = 9990
Type 3s 20 * 100 = 2000
---------------------------------------
Total 1353 16990

Yup, that is way too much

Downsize this to [per 100K robots]

Type 1 : 100 * 5 = 500
Type 2 : 10 * 30 = 300
Type 3: 1 * 100 = 100
-------------------------------------
Total 111 900

This is also easier to express:

Insectoid nest builds 1 type 1 fighter per 1000 new robots constructed,
1 type 2 fighter per 10,000 new robots constructed, and 1 type 3
fighter per 100,000 new robots constructed. All fractions dropped.
Anonymous

As a bit more of a wake up call, the above is the minimum a Bot starts
getting from Turn 1.

It should probably be toned down by at least a factor of 20.

50/17/1 ?

250+510+100=860MC

Hmm... At this ratio, the T2s are where almost twice the MC value
comes from.

50/5/1 ? That will make a more even distribution.

250+150+100=500MC.

Additionally, what about keeping the cap per base at 1000 of each type
(including any free fighters + purchased fighters under the same cap).
That may be difficult to smoothly add to the client though.
Anonymous

He beat me to it.

His numbers look neater.
Related ressources
Anonymous

Oh, it should probably be required that the base have a Fighter Plant
Anonymous

I don't think that it will really be neccessary to require a fighter
plant if free production dropped to the level I'm proposing.

Probably 95%+ of the free type 1 fighters, 99%+ of the free type 2
fighters, and virtually all of the free type 3 fighters would be
produced by a major base under the level I'm proposing. (With all
fractions dropped)

Especally considered that bug nest range depends upon # of bugs + # of
bots
Anonymous

As a robot player you should know well that after the T1, those
fighters aint worth the money, even t1 isnt worth 5 but its the best
you have so thats it. Building ships is the only really effective
attack mode the bots have, they are more effective than fighters,
unless the wings are huge. Early game ships is what you got. T3 is
worthless after sand shield ET. It might be worth building a wing or
two of a couple hundred before the ET but after, the build T3 button is
a waste money switch. My suggestion for free fighters is 500ish T1s
and 300 T2 and 50 T3 per hundred thousand bots built. My figure is
still way higher than yours because you cant look at the monetary cost
as a reasonable measuring tool as to what theyre getting. We all know
from previous hosts that numbers win, huge wings beat small wings.
Theres a little wrinckle now though.

Tim just changed a bunch on the Sand protection; It is not completly
effective, so expect bot wings of T1s and T2s to dissapear when engaged
by ships with a couple of sand casters, T3 has just enough range and
accuracy to not be easily wiped. Without the 100% effective sand
shield I confidently suggest that bot fighters are nearly worthless
with their weak armor and large soft spot. So maybe some tuning will
be done later, but it will have to be looked at first. IT may turn out
that free fighters are the only thing that bots can afford.

This comes from experience of watching 3000T1 fighters wiped out by a
single ship armed with SCs (less than 5). For 15 grand I could've
built 2 instrumentalities, or a few cats paws and bought the damn ord
for em.
Anonymous

A couple comments on the fighter battles.

One: behavior of fighters in combat is in big flux. All those battles
and VCRs that took place prior to host 192 don't mean a thing now.

Second: Your fighters should not all be in the same wing against a ship
or base. They'll function much better if split into several smaller
wings. Especally against Sand Castors which damage entire wings at
once, but still applies against normal point defenses. If the oppoent
has Sand Castors equipped on ships with too small an ordance hold,
enough wings could result in his sand castors ceasing to fire along
with every ord based weapon and ord based point defense on his ship in
the middle of combat.

Third: Tim said exotic sand shield. This leads me to belive that the
Robot Type 3 fighter still has a fully effectively sand shield, for
what it's worth. (Not much because of it's low armor)

Fourth: Tim also said the exotic energed sand castor is also going to
sometimes fail. This may reduce the sting.
Anonymous

I don't think that free fighter are neccesary at all.

> I don't think that it will really be neccessary to require a fighter
> plant if free production dropped to the level I'm proposing.
>
> Probably 95%+ of the free type 1 fighters, 99%+ of the free type 2
> fighters, and virtually all of the free type 3 fighters would be
> produced by a major base under the level I'm proposing. (With all
> fractions dropped)
>
> Especally considered that bug nest range depends upon # of bugs + # of
> bots
>

I like those numbers.

<joncnunn@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> Calculating:
>
> Type 1s 1000 * 5 = 5000
> Type 2s 333 * 30 = 9990
> Type 3s 20 * 100 = 2000
> ---------------------------------------
> Total 1353 16990
>
> Yup, that is way too much
>
> Downsize this to [per 100K robots]
>
> Type 1 : 100 * 5 = 500
> Type 2 : 10 * 30 = 300
> Type 3: 1 * 100 = 100
> -------------------------------------
> Total 111 900
>
> This is also easier to express:
>
> Insectoid nest builds 1 type 1 fighter per 1000 new robots constructed,
> 1 type 2 fighter per 10,000 new robots constructed, and 1 type 3
> fighter per 100,000 new robots constructed. All fractions dropped.
>

Actually, on second thought. Why would the insectoid nest need to build
robots in order to also build fighters? I think they should be able to build
fighters regardless of robot produciton so long as the nest is full. Also,
currently the max number of figheters able to be built by a base is 1000 per
type. I don't think that nests should be able to build more than an
additional 1000 fighters of any given type. Perhaps lowering the # of type
1s produced and raising the # of type 2 and 3 but maintaining a similar
value to your numbers below might be best.

eg.
[per 100K insectoids in a functioning nest]

Type 1 : 20 * 5 = 100
Type 2 : 10 * 30 = 300
Type 3: 5 * 100 = 500
-----------------------------------------
Total 35 900

<joncnunn@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> Calculating:
>
> Type 1s 1000 * 5 = 5000
> Type 2s 333 * 30 = 9990
> Type 3s 20 * 100 = 2000
> ---------------------------------------
> Total 1353 16990
>
> Yup, that is way too much
>
> Downsize this to [per 100K robots]
>
> Type 1 : 100 * 5 = 500
> Type 2 : 10 * 30 = 300
> Type 3: 1 * 100 = 100
> -------------------------------------
> Total 111 900
>
> This is also easier to express:
>
> Insectoid nest builds 1 type 1 fighter per 1000 new robots constructed,
> 1 type 2 fighter per 10,000 new robots constructed, and 1 type 3
> fighter per 100,000 new robots constructed. All fractions dropped.
>

I don't see why the boots should get any boost at the moment. I don't
consider them to be that weak.
Beside that I like the idea that the nests produce them for free. I
like all features that makes races more special. The question that
comes to my mind is why can they build Fighters in Insectiod Nests AND
Fighterplants. I mean the insectoid nest is their fighterplant. I would
say take them the Fighter Plant away. They get them free from the nest
and he can build what he wants with the Vltavas. Or he can
groundassault other planets or have to trade with someone for it. Or he
simply lives with the Fighters the Nest produce. This could also be
easy implemented I think.

Just a thought
Anonymous

The Cents are not like the Dracs. Yes, the creator has left, but he
passed on race maintanence to Mutu. He has been examining the race and
has been looking into updating them. If you believe they need an
overhaul, give him some suggestions.

Scytale
Anonymous

The Cents are not like the Dracs. Yes, the creator has left, but he
passed on race maintanence to Mutu. He has been examining the race and
has been looking into updating them. If you believe they need an
overhaul, give him some suggestions.

Scytale

redherring wrote:
>
> The Cents, aren't a good example of a race for fighter cost.

Really - the Sabik is rather cheap - and much better than about all
other cheap fighter.

> The Cents
> were made back in the day when you could golory amorphs and sell on a
> base with one guy 10,000 contra.

AFAIk the Raffa was the last ship added to the shiplist of the Cents.
They did have the Ahir with that costs before.

> So the 500cr cost of fighter wasn't
> out of the question.

And then if we just look at the stats and assume that all of these
stats of any fighter have a real meaning and also influence what one
would intuitivly assume it does, would still be worth its money - it
would probably be to cheap if anything.

> Now the Cents are in the same boat as the Dracs,
> the owner/maker of the race is gone and not updating his/her race
with
> the changes in the game. The one thing I can say about the UEA,RCS
and
> soloarians are the maker/makers are still twicking the races with the
> changes in the host. What needs to be done is for the Cents to