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What is the use of ion cannons now?

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Anonymous
April 21, 2005 11:58:29 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

....And a new test host host193 and an ACB and a 100 IC base showed a similar effect:
While the ACB (ANNI) is firing on the base lot's of times and probably inflicting great damage the 100 IC sratching only the
surface of the ACB's shieleds.

500 IC are only to nearly take out the shields. So what is the use of them now? They make so little damage that keeping shields
up is always the better way unless the price is tuned down a lot.

GFM GToeroe

More about : ion cannons

April 22, 2005 7:59:17 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

I believe the last word hasn't been spoken here.

So the ICs are weakened, good to know. That wasn't in the host changes
description!
April 22, 2005 9:11:56 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Gabor Törö wrote:
> ...And a new test host host193 and an ACB and a 100 IC base showed a
similar effect:
> While the ACB (ANNI) is firing on the base lot's of times and
probably inflicting great damage the 100 IC sratching only the
> surface of the ACB's shieleds.
>
> 500 IC are only to nearly take out the shields. So what is the use of
them now? They make so little damage that keeping shields
> up is always the better way unless the price is tuned down a lot.
>
> GFM GToeroe

It is a little bit different. You see Ion Cannons are only able to
remove shields and doing system damage (and for that armor should not
be present on the ship),
which the Ion Cannons only did do because the ship(s) could not have
any armor.
So in your test fewer Ion Cannons, if they are not killed too fast,
would have gotten the same result.
Related resources
April 22, 2005 10:55:27 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Gabor Törö wrote:
> "Nameless" <unknown_ai@web.de> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:1114171916.493452.68020@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> >It is a little bit different. You see Ion Cannons are only able to
> >remove shields and doing system damage (and for that armor should
not
> >be present on the ship),
> >which the Ion Cannons only did do because the ship(s) could not have
> >any armor.
> >So in your test fewer Ion Cannons, if they are not killed too fast,
> >would have gotten the same result.
>
> Do you tried to say that ICs can drain ship shields and inflict
system damage to ships without armor?

Not really. More along the lines, that even 10 k Ion Cannons can not
destroy a single Jump Pod, regardless of Ord stockpile, only removing
shields and doing system damage thereafter. Of course I did not run
that test, but I guess I just have stated the outcome, if no other
objects are present, and the JP does move within range of the Ion
Cannons...
(And then they are named Ion Cannons, right? - And what do the ship Ion
Cannons do?)

> Indeed it is so, but still
> the question still is the use of them in the current version?

I have not commented on that.

> Even 100 ICs on a base with 50M colonists, 500 raid shelters, 500
> undercities, 110 AAguns and 20 LC do not enough damage to an ACB
without any >armor and shields before they all are destroyed by
> the LW shots.
>

Oh I did just a small test with 10 k Ion Cannons and all other
buildings at max and 500 k Ord, they did fire all ord but of course did
not manage to even kill one single Raffa - the 3 100 fighter wings also
on the base (birdmen base) did more damage. I think some of the Raffas
did get hit a few thousand times...

> And if I rebember right 100 ICs would cost 50 kMC and need a kORD
every shot, >right?

I am not always answering questions, whose answers can also be given by
the help files and/or host changes.


> Now the ICs are a weapon the world not really needs.

Do not agree. The use has merely shifted...
Eventhough they are kinda expensive in some cases...
Anonymous
April 22, 2005 11:24:15 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

I agree... I have never bought them... ever, even when they were so
called 'useful'... and I've played alot of VGAP turns.

IMHO, Ion Cannons have always been a waste of money, except for that
brief span of time when ships would charge in and die to them quickly.

Now it seems they are even more useless.
Anonymous
April 22, 2005 2:12:37 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

I like your response Nameless.
I see you are looking at weather or not a bunch of
raffa can jump into orbit and destroy the base below
with glory devices. Nice to know that the Ion cannons
can not destroy these raffa. Are we a bit obsessed with the
Cents? A race will have to defend its bases with ships
to prevent this. No Fighters will not stop a proper raffa
design with some exotics.

Of course the obvious is that the raffas only needs to be within 10
lys to destroy the planet anyway. So it does not matter if Ion
cannons can destroy a raffa or not as far as protecting the
planet from destruction.

Well we are now again at the other extreme end of the Ion
cannon spectrum. Indeed they do have a small value
right now which
can be leveraged better with some races than others.
For many races they are almost useless considering the
cost and ord use.

But then we do have other buildings right now that do make
bases nearly impervious to orbit bombardment.
So why bother with Ion cannons?
Anonymous
April 22, 2005 7:40:51 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

"Nameless" <unknown_ai@web.de> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:1114171916.493452.68020@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...



>It is a little bit different. You see Ion Cannons are only able to
>remove shields and doing system damage (and for that armor should not
>be present on the ship),
>which the Ion Cannons only did do because the ship(s) could not have
>any armor.
>So in your test fewer Ion Cannons, if they are not killed too fast,
>would have gotten the same result.

Do you tried to say that ICs can drain ship shields and inflict system damage to ships without armor? Indeed it is so, but still
the question still is the use of them in the current version? Even 100 ICs on a base with 50M colonists, 500 raid shelters, 500
undercities, 110 AAguns and 20 LC do not enough damage to an ACB without any armor and shields before they all are destroyed by
the LW shots.

And if I rebember right 100 ICs would cost 50 kMC and need a kORD every shot, right?

Now the ICs are a weapon the world not really needs.

GFM GToeroe
Anonymous
April 22, 2005 8:51:26 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

<david_bandy@hotmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:1114179855.583206.165150@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...

> Now it seems they are even more useless.
Well, "shifted", as Nameless said. Maybe you ask him what he knows and you not.

GFM GToeroe
Anonymous
April 22, 2005 8:56:28 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

"Nameless" <unknown_ai@web.de> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:1114178127.305948.246330@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...


>I am not always answering questions, whose answers can also be given by
>the help files and/or host changes.

But I so want to get some of your mustard. Getting short of it?

GFM GToeroe
April 23, 2005 8:08:25 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

minime-hammer wrote:
> I like your response Nameless.

I like mine, too.

> I see you are looking at weather or not a bunch of
> raffa can jump into orbit and destroy the base below
> with glory devices.

That was actualy only a byproduct of the things I tested with just one
scripted game.

> Nice to know that the Ion cannons
> can not destroy these raffa. Are we a bit obsessed with the
> Cents?

Well I must have forgotten to tell that I had also a test with a Krait
(Dracs) and a few Superstar Carriers (EE) attacking ground bases - and
that always 100 fighter of each type where there as homeguard wings.

> A race will have to defend its bases with ships
> to prevent this. No Fighters will not stop a proper raffa
> design with some exotics.

That is not true. Fighter wings are an option.


> Of course the obvious is that the raffas only needs to be within 10
> lys to destroy the planet anyway. So it does not matter if Ion
> cannons can destroy a raffa or not as far as protecting the
> planet from destruction.

Correct. And then I never liked all the properties of the Raffa.

> Well we are now again at the other extreme end of the Ion
> cannon spectrum.

Well we would not have this thread, if Tim would have let them work
this way while the base shield is active. And then a nearly unlimited
armor arc or a littel armor drain (when the shields are gone) would
also help. As would help to reduce the cost of one bullet again to 1
ord.


> Indeed they do have a small value
> right now which
> can be leveraged better with some races than others.
> For many races they are almost useless considering the
> cost and ord use.
>
> But then we do have other buildings right now that do make
> bases nearly impervious to orbit bombardment.
> So why bother with Ion cannons?

You are not to bad to figure a few things out yourself, or are you?
I know for what I would use Base ION CANNONS right now, and with which
races I would build more and with which less.
Anonymous
April 23, 2005 10:29:45 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

>I know for what I would use Base ION CANNONS >right now, and with
which
>races I would build more and with which less.

But that is really the point of this thread.
I believe Tim wants the Ion cannon to be neutral
building that preforms the same for every race.
And while litteraly this is the case, in practice
some races gain and some loose relative strength
advantages
with Tim's new Ion cannon program code.

Intended or not that is the net effect we now have.
Anonymous
April 23, 2005 7:45:16 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

My guess is that Tim wants people to defend worlds with mobile units
like ships, not structures. That is why structures are so weak in
combat, except AA guns. Maybe he will make them weaker soon, too.

Maybe he will change IC's so they help defending ships, without actually
damaging enemy ones. Example: maybe they will help defending ships /
wings recharge their weapons quicker. Or: they will short out enemy PD
weapons. Or: they will break up enemy ship formations. Or: they will
cancel enemy Exotic Techs. Or: they will cancel ALL exotic techs
(including the defender's) around that planet, for as long as they have
Ord. Or: they will destroy enemy minefields within 25LY. Or: they will
blind nearby ships with coruscating displays of holographic
advertisements.
--
Paul Honigmann
April 24, 2005 7:21:14 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

minime-hammer wrote:
> >I know for what I would use Base ION CANNONS >right now, and with
> which
> >races I would build more and with which less.
>
> But that is really the point of this thread.

That has not been mine.

> I believe Tim wants the Ion cannon to be neutral
> building that preforms the same for every race.
> And while litteraly this is the case, in practice
> some races gain and some loose relative strength
> advantages
> with Tim's new Ion cannon program code.

This will about always happen in practice (more or less regardless of
changes).


> Intended or not that is the net effect we now have.
April 24, 2005 10:53:36 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Planetary Ion Cannons still will keep pods from landing. Useful against
pods launched from nearby planets or unarmed ships like a small DSF or a
Watchman Class Scout.

Mike
Anonymous
April 24, 2005 1:45:36 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Mike writes
>Planetary Ion Cannons still will keep pods from landing.

How many do you need for that? Will a single one suffice?
--
Paul Honigmann
Anonymous
April 25, 2005 4:58:25 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

ok this is weird but..

I've had Instrumentality ships destroyed by Ion Cannons (heck ive had a
lot of ships that have been destroyed by ion cannons)
April 25, 2005 2:35:09 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

scumm_gel@yahoo.com wrote:
> ok this is weird but..
>
> I've had Instrumentality ships destroyed by Ion Cannons (heck ive had
a
> lot of ships that have been destroyed by ion cannons)

Probably not so weird when you look at the host version of that rsts,
you will then come to the conclusion that it was not host version 193.
!