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PC vs. Mac...The end all discussion

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February 18, 2011 4:13:13 AM

So I have been noticing this sudden up rising in apple products and the ignorance of their users and I just cant keep my mouth shut anymore. (feel free to do that same, thats why I started this thread : ) All i hear and see everywhere I go is massive amounts of marketing on behalf of Apple stating that macs are for Hip/trendy socialites and PC's are for Lame, acne ridden Anti-Social losers along with the product image that macs are vastly superior machines. All though this couldn't be any farther from the actual truth of it I still have had many conversations with the A-Typical mac user and they always go the same way. Full of statements like "they just work" or "macs dont crash" or even the infamous "macs dont get virus's" all of which are statements that have been directly adopted from the elitest womb of the apple marketing campaign and none of which can ever provide any factual basis to actually back up their claims. So all I can think to do is break it down as black and white as I possibly can and ask for all opinions ( mac users please only comment if you have something to say that actually has factual basis and I havnt heard it a million times before or isnt a direct quote from a mac commercial.thanks)

1-COST. For this segment I will compare a top end custom built PC Vs. a Mac of equal specs from the official Apple website.

Mac Pro
CPU-3.33Ghz 6 Core Intel Xeon (haha i still laugh about macs using intel CPU's, well i guess they never really made their own anyways (Power PC was made by IBM)
RAM-12GB of DDR3 ECC SDRAM
HDD- 2TB
GPU- 2X Radeon 5770

Sorry for the lack of info, the great overlord Steve Jobs doesn't really disclose alot about the hardware he uses...(go figure)

Total $6071.00

Custom Built
MOBO-EVGA Classified SR-2 270-WS-W555-A2 LGA 1366 Intel 5520 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 (mac does not offer either sata 6GB/s or USB 3.0, this board has both)
CPU-3.33Ghz 6 Core Intel Xeon
RAM-12 GB (4X3) Corsair Dominator DDR3 2000 (PC 16000) (much better performing/higher quality than the conventional 1600Mhz ddr3 used in the mac system)
GPU- 2X MSI R5770 Hawk Radeon HD 5770 1GB 128-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.1 x16 HDCP Ready CFX (better quality and HDMI, which mac refuses to support)
HDD- Western Digital Caviar Black WD1002FAEX 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive
PSU- ABS Majesty series MJ1100-M Continuous 1100W@50°C ATX12V/EPS12V 80 PLUS GOLD Certified, Single 12V Rail (much better quality and higher output than mac)
AUD- ASUS Xonar Essence STX Virtual 7.1 Channels PCI Express x1 Interface 124 dB SNR / Headphone( much higher performance and quality than integrated mac sound)
BLU-LG Black 10X Blu-ray Burner - Bulk SATA WH10LS30 LightScribe Support (another mainstream technology apple refuses to acknowledge and does not offer)
CDR-ASUS DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS Black SATA 24X DVD Burner
CASE-Corsair Obsidian Series 800D CC800DW Black Aluminum / Steel ATX Full Tower Computer Case (just as aesthetic as the mac case, if not more)
OS-Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate Full

Total $4,182.87
Price difference $1,888.13

I think this is simple enough for even the most ignorant mac user to realize that the custom build is comprised of higher quality/better performing components while offering many very use-full mainstream technologies that Apple refuses to acknowledge even exist( marketing, they want you to buy their own proprietary dead end technologies) while somehow still managing to offer a $1,888.13 savings over the under performing mac pro. The extra must be for the shiny case and social status.

2-OPERATING SYSTEM.
*I'll give it to the mac that that their OS (not even totally theirs, based off UNIX) is very good looking and simple to use but this is also part of the problem as the mac OS is designed towards the computer illiterate and is actually quite limiting and very pointlessly laid out to anybody who has half a clue as to how to actually run windows.( no right click, goofy dock that doesnt differentiate between running programs and icons, programs dont actually close when i press x, no real full screen, drag and drop doesn't actually copy files just creates shortcuts and buckets full of other stupid little quirks that annoy the hell out of me)

* It's better?? I think not, this pre conception comes from the masses of brainless mac users who hopped on OSX with a hand full off retard proof built in software and managed to make a movie, not necessarily better just easier ( in the opinion of the mac user easier = better)

*Compatibility...HA, good luck interfacing with anything that doesn't have an " i " in front of the name. This is part of apples marketing scheme aswell, yes they will eventually do what you want (most of the time) but only if you buy the i-this and i-that from the apple store (which will cost twice as much, starting to see the trend??)

*Crashing. The difference between a pc based on Windows crashing and a Mac is that on the pc the crash is in 99% of the cases caused by badly coded third party software, when the Mac just has a faulty operating system. Why else would Apple themselves run their india website on Linux RedHat?
There is another fun part about crashes on the mac, it's almost always impossible to trace the source of the crash. When your mac crashes you simply reinstall the system. Sounds like a fun thing to do in your spare time, well buy a Mac then!

*Charging for service packs. Rediculous especially when you consider what the differences are between one and the other (not much)

3-Virus's. This one is very simple, macs do get virus's just not as many as PC's because there are not as many macs as PC's. If you were a virus writer why would you write code for a machine no one has ?? If anything mac's are actually more subceptible to virus's due to the fact mac openly advertises the fact you do not need anti-virus software and actually does little to nothing as far as built in securities... they even ship with their firewall turned off!!!!

4-Upgrading and customizing. Non Existent, with a mac what you buy is what you get. Yeah you can upgrade(slightly) but the prices are so astronomical that you might as well just get a new machine.

5-Software. The amount of software titles for mac platform are very limited and generally cost alot more than their windows based counterparts. Yes macs can now run windows in boot camp which allows macs to run windows software but isn't installing your most hated badly talked about competitors software kind-of like admitting defeat ??

6- Repair. Yes applecare is great, I wont argue with that. How ever after your 1 (or 3 years if you paid the extra $400) is up you are S.O.L. $1,100 to replace a burnt out GPU...yeah not for me.

7-Gaming. Yeah it's the number 1 talked about reason although it may not be the most important to some people which is why I put it last. All the same mac's have a major game deficiency. There are next to no major labels directly for the mac platform, yes you can run windows games in boot camp. Still whats even mac about running windows games in windows on the X86/X64 hardware mac's stole from the PC world because they couldn't hack it with their own hardware. Again shiny cover, social status and astronomical price tag come to mind.

Well folks that really about all I have to say on this matter. If i missed anything please feel free to continue where I left off.

More about : mac end discussion

February 18, 2011 5:10:33 AM

^+900 Can you have a sticky for an anti-Mac rant, hmmmmm....

I was talking to a girl at school yesterday

Girl: Do you use a mac?
Me: No, macs have compatibility issues, they don't play games and I prefer 7s interface.
Girl: Have you tried a mac?
Me: yes, I prefer a PC
Girl: macs don't crash
Me: (realizes girls ignorance, quickly sidesteps the conversation away from subject)
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February 18, 2011 6:57:25 AM

Hmm. Are you guys the mac haters fan club or something?

I guess the fair thing to say is branding. Mac users are paying for the brand. Its like a BMW/Mercs Vs a random china car company, you can put the same engine under the hood, but the china car can never command as high a price point as the european's. Why? Branding, looks, marketing. What I'm saying is, people are just buying for the novelty of owning a mac.

I own a desktop PC for gaming(in my sig), a gaming laptop AND a Macbook pro and air for work and travel. I build my PC for 1.4k, while my macbook pro cost me damn near 2k.

Compared to Vista, OSX feels like a speeding train versus a bicycle. Win7 is so much better, but its still slower than OSX(trust me I know). So for the 50% of the people out there who aren't gamers, enthusiasts, any computers is good enough. What comes up is the price point.

Macs are for people who just need a computer for work, basic stuff and has the money to throw around. While you can claim its stupid, then ask any Mercs/BMW owners why pay a ridiculous premium.

@CMI86
1. Its not true you cant right click on a Mac, YOU CAN.
2. while 99% of viruses attack PC, and 1% mac, what is the ratio of PCs to Mac out there? Definitely more than 99:1. Hence the made-up invincibility of the OSX.

What I am saying is that both PCs and Macs are made for different markets.
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February 18, 2011 1:59:41 PM

This is an amazing well put together article and very true in any sense. I'm a graphic designer and contrary to popular belief most designer prefer PC to apple. The majority of reason you see companies have apple is because as a company they get a good discount for ordering a bundle of them for their department. But today that's really no longer the case since now PC companies now offer the same discounts but with a more versatile product.

I own both and I enjoy them, yes the Apple boot a little faster but not by much. At the end of the day though I find myself using my PC much more than my Apple. I really use my Apple as a center piece in my bedroom because it looks nice.
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February 18, 2011 4:24:18 PM

rvd89 said:
Hmm. Are you guys the mac haters fan club or something?

I guess the fair thing to say is branding. Mac users are paying for the brand. Its like a BMW/Mercs Vs a random china car company, you can put the same engine under the hood, but the china car can never command as high a price point as the european's. Why? Branding, looks, marketing. What I'm saying is, people are just buying for the novelty of owning a mac.

I own a desktop PC for gaming(in my sig), a gaming laptop AND a Macbook pro and air for work and travel. I build my PC for 1.4k, while my macbook pro cost me damn near 2k.

Compared to Vista, OSX feels like a speeding train versus a bicycle. Win7 is so much better, but its still slower than OSX(trust me I know). So for the 50% of the people out there who aren't gamers, enthusiasts, any computers is good enough. What comes up is the price point.

Macs are for people who just need a computer for work, basic stuff and has the money to throw around. While you can claim its stupid, then ask any Mercs/BMW owners why pay a ridiculous premium.

@CMI86
1. Its not true you cant right click on a Mac, YOU CAN.
2. while 99% of viruses attack PC, and 1% mac, what is the ratio of PCs to Mac out there? Definitely more than 99:1. Hence the made-up invincibility of the OSX.

What I am saying is that both PCs and Macs are made for different markets.


Thanks for your input, thats pretty much the whole point I am trying to make is that through clever marketing apple has somehow branded macs as deserving that higher price point and I cannot find 1 single reason why they actually do. Buying a mac is like buying a pair of nike's, yes there are certainly better shoes out there but people buy the nike's becasue the commercial said Nike's are for hardcore athletes and real hardcore athlete's only buy nike. It's that elitest marketing that says buying this will make you better than everyone else, apple is making billions of the fact the consuming public is generally too stupid to look past their witty commercials and coffee shop social status to see that they are falling victim to EXTREME over inflation by apple. For what? Thats what I want to know.
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February 18, 2011 4:26:40 PM

I think it's just hip. Just like Nikes.

PCs and Sauconys all the way!!!!
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February 18, 2011 4:27:54 PM

joelmartinez said:
^+900 Can you have a sticky for an anti-Mac rant, hmmmmm....

I was talking to a girl at school yesterday

Girl: Do you use a mac?
Me: No, macs have compatibility issues, they don't play games and I prefer 7s interface.
Girl: Have you tried a mac?
Me: yes, I prefer a PC
Girl: macs don't crash
Me: (realizes girls ignorance, quickly sidesteps the conversation away from subject)


Hopefully the moderator isn't a macboy lol
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February 18, 2011 4:29:51 PM

Nahhhh I'm pretty sure almost every high-ranked member on Tom's realizes the benefits of pcs
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February 18, 2011 5:50:56 PM

Apple -- Last Year's Technology at Next Year's prices!
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February 18, 2011 6:29:12 PM

I bet if everybody who didn't think macs were a good deal posted a message in this thread it would be the longest yet!

bring it on!!!!
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February 18, 2011 6:33:58 PM

Here is a perfect example of mac BS at its finest. So one of my buddy's call me up today and asks if I can take a look at his G5 (1.6Ghz Power PC) I tell him I'm not a big mac guy but I'll take a look, I diagnosed a bad GPU (ATi Radeon 9800 XT/ 8X AGP) In searching for a replacement the least expensive new part I found was listed at $449.95!!!!! ARE YOU EFFING KIDDING ME !?!? $450 for a 6 year old GPU just because it's got that stupid little apple on the back of it, this made me sick...seriously. For that amount of money I could get 2 HD5870's and have like 1000 times the graphics performance ...LITERALLY
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February 18, 2011 6:38:09 PM

Have you converted him or does he insist on buying a replacement GPU?
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February 18, 2011 6:48:35 PM

I'm going to that's for sure, He's finally starting to see how it really is in the i-life lol
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February 18, 2011 6:52:19 PM

I'm the only one in my immediate family that uses PCs, everyone else on old, slow macs
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February 20, 2011 5:42:01 PM

I guess no one wants to have a sip of the hater-ade lol
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February 20, 2011 7:43:33 PM

I think you gotta change the comparison system, the custom pc.

While I think the idea of trying to compare apples to apples by choosing the same xeon CPU and same graphics muscle, how about putting more graphical muscle while changing the CPU down to the i7 990x, it overclocks much more easily and the accompanying mobo will be significantly cheaper.

My idea:
i7 990x ($1050)
Asus rampage iii extreme ($380)
same as you ($350)
gtx 580 ($500)
need a 2tb like mac samsung spinpoint f4 ($80)
ssd is essential ocz vertex 2 120gb 3.5'' ($230)
ST1000-P ($185)
onboard should be enough unless audio intensive then get a $100 card (not included in total)
same blu ($80) pretty sure this can do dvds as well
rv02b-ew ($190) great aesthetics
windows 7 pro 64-bit oem ($140) get 3rd party encryption

Total: $3185
this has a much better upgrade path than the mac and the custom pc you chose and will last for 6+ years with upgrades every 6 months
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February 20, 2011 7:45:08 PM

later get cpu cooler, extra fans, 2nd and 3rd gtx 580, overclock CPU and get sound card
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February 20, 2011 10:32:36 PM

Nice build, I fully understand that I could have sourced something alot less expensive while better performing and a little more future proof aswell. Although this was not really my objective as my point was to build something spec'd equally (with a couple small add on's to sweeten the pot) to the Mac Pro with all top end parts to illustrate just how much apple jacks up the prices on their computers not necessarily how much of a better computer can be built. I figured this would be easier for mac users to understand since most of them know nothing about hardware configs anyways lol

PS, I forgot to put 2X in front of the HDD listing. The build is priced for the second drive
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February 20, 2011 11:22:44 PM

I understand, how about putting similiar specced pc (then your build), then say more balanced than the mac pc with better upgrade path and put my build
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February 24, 2011 11:46:32 AM

ScrewySqrl said:
Apple -- Last Year's Technology at Next Year's prices!

LOL!! I like that ;-))
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February 25, 2011 5:11:54 AM

@CMI86: Your absolutely right: the average consumer isn't unfortunately intelligent enough to make their own intelligent decisions. Nope nope. Thats why Apple is so successful to begin with. Heck, that's why BMW is more successful to begin with. They feed on other's lack of computer knowledge. BMW feeds on people's lack of car knowledge. How many people that repair their own cars, or better yet, makes upgrades to their cars, buy BMW's? Very few.

Mac's are not for people who know their way with computers to the extent that most posters at Tom's Hardware do. They look at the hardware prices and simply laugh. Gee the Mac OS certainly doesn't get as many viruses as a PC, but I'd rather deal with that when the time comes then pay premium prices for old hardware. I'd rather not have issues with software compatibility with games, certain hardware, etc. I'd rather not give up my freedom to assemble practically whatever hardware I want in a custom build. And lets face it, if your justification for buying a Mac is the OS, well, guess what, you can dual boot Mac and Windows in a custom build. Albeit, probably not in a way Apple would want you to, but you can. Also, not to sound like a jerk, but the reason people get viruses, and admittingly twice when I got one, its because we click on or do something that we know we shouldn't do to begin with.

People also brag that Macs are the industry standard for graphical print design. Well, that's only because Mac has the larger footprint in the industry. But if you look at it, any Mac program that they use will still either work on a PC, or there's a version for PC. Adobe suite's being the main standard, which works easily on PC's.

I'm sorry, when I see someone buy a Mac where I work, what more can I do but rub their egos and encourage them. If I see a customer on the fence about it, I do my best to frankly pull them back to sanity, but when someone has crossed that fence and has a very narrow view of computer tech, what more can I do but encourage the blind purchase. Once someone buys a BMW, they typically do the same exact thing. Its sad really. And well lets not get into Applecare. Paying as much as an accidental plan at some retail stores, yet doesn't cover accidental damages.
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February 25, 2011 4:13:24 PM

i have to say i agree and disagree with this thread. While i am an apple fanboy (just the laptops) i was seriously thinking about building my own pc. A really close friend of mine is a vp at apple right now and he fought valiently for me just buying a MacPro. i used the whole "i can build a better pc for less" talk and he used the "your not buying just hardware, your buying an experience" talk. I decided just to hold out until the sandy bridges come out to make a decision :D  . What ponders my brain is that Apple sales are up for 20 quarters in a rowcompared to pc sales, and apple stock is still rising. I said to my friend, people just buy Mac's because they dont understand how to REALLY use a computer, and he retorted with the fact that more and more buisnesses are switching over to macs from pcs. Why?

side note- i like the new apple monitors :) 
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February 25, 2011 10:03:03 PM

Apple is popular because they are easy to use that is why sales are increasing.

side note- the u3011 is better
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February 25, 2011 10:43:51 PM

rvd89 said:
Hmm. Are you guys the mac haters fan club or something?

I guess the fair thing to say is branding. Mac users are paying for the brand. Its like a BMW/Mercs Vs a random china car company, you can put the same engine under the hood, but the china car can never command as high a price point as the european's. Why? Branding, looks, marketing. What I'm saying is, people are just buying for the novelty of owning a mac.

I own a desktop PC for gaming(in my sig), a gaming laptop AND a Macbook pro and air for work and travel. I build my PC for 1.4k, while my macbook pro cost me damn near 2k.

Compared to Vista, OSX feels like a speeding train versus a bicycle. Win7 is so much better, but its still slower than OSX(trust me I know). So for the 50% of the people out there who aren't gamers, enthusiasts, any computers is good enough. What comes up is the price point.

Macs are for people who just need a computer for work, basic stuff and has the money to throw around. While you can claim its stupid, then ask any Mercs/BMW owners why pay a ridiculous premium.

@CMI86
1. Its not true you cant right click on a Mac, YOU CAN.
2. while 99% of viruses attack PC, and 1% mac, what is the ratio of PCs to Mac out there? Definitely more than 99:1. Hence the made-up invincibility of the OSX.

What I am saying is that both PCs and Macs are made for different markets.


This is a response to the OP and this specific post:

I definetily agree that Mac aren't everything they say. Infact I agree with everything said in the OP. The thing is, when it comes down the core, OSX/Macs are easier to use for computer illiterate people. Yeah its expensive, but for somebody like my grandpa is doesn't have a damn clue what a computer is and still thinks he's in the 2nd centery, a Mac is easier to use, simply because you can't really mess with it or customize it which makes it stable. In windows, its extremely customizable, but with customizability comes lots of *** 3rd party software that can cause crashes and lots of options which do provide much increased functionality but when messed with by somebody who doesn't know what they are doing, it can turn into problems.

Simply Put:
Mac=For computer illiterate
PC=Computer literate
Linux=Computer professionals

^Its as simple as that

Now
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To respond to the post I Quoted:
-I am a owner, A PROUD owner of a BMW. Unlike paying for a brand name when you buy a mac, when you buy a BMW (Not sure about mercedes, never had one), but when you buy a BMW, you get your money's worth...performance, handling, and general quality are absolutley untouched. Yes BMW's are more expensive but you pay for the Name AND QUALITY. I can garentee you no japanese, chinese, american...etc car or any of those cars can even touch my BMW in terms of handling and performance...some of those asian or american made cars might have a more powerful engine then my BMW but in race, i'd smoke them, turning, balance, steering..etc is 10x better. You can insult mercedes all you want, but I love my BMW and there aint nothing changing that.
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February 26, 2011 4:34:50 PM

Ajrslg said:
i have to say i agree and disagree with this thread. While i am an apple fanboy (just the laptops) i was seriously thinking about building my own pc. A really close friend of mine is a vp at apple right now and he fought valiently for me just buying a MacPro. i used the whole "i can build a better pc for less" talk and he used the "your not buying just hardware, your buying an experience" talk. I decided just to hold out until the sandy bridges come out to make a decision :D  . What ponders my brain is that Apple sales are up for 20 quarters in a rowcompared to pc sales, and apple stock is still rising. I said to my friend, people just buy Mac's because they dont understand how to REALLY use a computer, and he retorted with the fact that more and more buisnesses are switching over to macs from pcs. Why?

side note- i like the new apple monitors :) 


Because the IT departments are getting sick and tired of fixing all the PC's that the uneducated workforce manages to F**C up in a day. So they figure it's simpler to put them all on an idiot proof OS the wont let you tough anything, plus apple gives them a huge discount just to get their numbers up.
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February 26, 2011 4:49:22 PM

blackhawk1928 said:
This is a response to the OP and this specific post:

I definetily agree that Mac aren't everything they say. Infact I agree with everything said in the OP. The thing is, when it comes down the core, OSX/Macs are easier to use for computer illiterate people. Yeah its expensive, but for somebody like my grandpa is doesn't have a damn clue what a computer is and still thinks he's in the 2nd centery, a Mac is easier to use, simply because you can't really mess with it or customize it which makes it stable. In windows, its extremely customizable, but with customizability comes lots of *** 3rd party software that can cause crashes and lots of options which do provide much increased functionality but when messed with by somebody who doesn't know what they are doing, it can turn into problems.

Simply Put:
Mac=For computer illiterate
PC=Computer literate
Linux=Computer professionals

^Its as simple as that

Now
--------------------------------------------------------------------
To respond to the post I Quoted:
-I am a owner, A PROUD owner of a BMW. Unlike paying for a brand name when you buy a mac, when you buy a BMW (Not sure about mercedes, never had one), but when you buy a BMW, you get your money's worth...performance, handling, and general quality are absolutley untouched. Yes BMW's are more expensive but you pay for the Name AND QUALITY. I can garentee you no japanese, chinese, american...etc car or any of those cars can even touch my BMW in terms of handling and performance...some of those asian or american made cars might have a more powerful engine then my BMW but in race, i'd smoke them, turning, balance, steering..etc is 10x better. You can insult mercedes all you want, but I love my BMW and there aint nothing changing that.


thanks for your input, I am a big fan of beamers as well, they have always offered great performance and reliability, especially now since they are becoming more competitivly priced. They once held the crown in performance luxury market but that crown now rests firmly atop the Cadillac CTS-V. Its faster stops shorter and handles better than a BMW M5, the exterior styling is up to personal taste ( i like it better, looks more aggressive) and the interiors are pretty much on par with one another as far as materials used. Not tryin to hate, im just sayin.
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February 26, 2011 5:34:12 PM

^Buddy, the Cadillac CTS-V is a great car, don't get me wrong, the cadillac CTS-V sedan/coupe has a monster 556hp engine and provides solid torque, but sadley, a powerful engine is the only thing that it has...compared to BMW, its got no stability and handling at high speeds. Not just that, but its a supercharged engine...crummy and has lag...not only can't it do well at high speed, it can't do well at low speed due to lag of producing torque. My two best friends who are much older then me, they're actually my dads friends, one has an M3 with 414hp and one has a 551hp CTS-V, they went to a track to race and after reaching high speeds, the CTS-V couldn't not only keep up but became unstable and the driver couldn't handle turns :) . So no...BMW has the crown :) . Especially an M5 w/ 500hp, it can smoke the CTS-V, and they new M5 w/ almost 600hp will smoke it harder.

Not trying to hate, just saying :) .

But either way PC>Mac
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February 26, 2011 6:28:40 PM

blackhawk1928 said:
^Buddy, the Cadillac CTS-V is a great car, don't get me wrong, the cadillac CTS-V sedan/coupe has a monster 556hp engine and provides solid torque, but sadley, a powerful engine is the only thing that it has...compared to BMW, its got no stability and handling at high speeds. Not just that, but its a supercharged engine...crummy and has lag...not only can't it do well at high speed, it can't do well at low speed due to lag of producing torque. My two best friends who are much older then me, they're actually my dads friends, one has an M3 with 414hp and one has a 551hp CTS-V, they went to a track to race and after reaching high speeds, the CTS-V couldn't not only keep up but became unstable and the driver couldn't handle turns :) . So no...BMW has the crown :) . Especially an M5 w/ 500hp, it can smoke the CTS-V, and they new M5 w/ almost 600hp will smoke it harder.

Not trying to hate, just saying :) .

But either way PC>Mac


Nurburgring Lap Records

7:59.32 Cadillac CTS-V

8:28 --- BMW E49 M5

8:13 --- BMW M5

8:07.7 - BMW M6

If you can find me a better test of overall vehicle performance and stability than the standard the entire planet has relied upon for many years, than be my guest but from what i see the cadillac looks to be a much faster car, maybe ur buddy just needs to learn how to control his ride a little better.
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February 26, 2011 11:41:34 PM

^You're probably right :) . Usually its professional drivers that test them.
Wait until the new M5 though...
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February 27, 2011 1:50:57 AM

joelmartinez said:
I think she also said the virus thing, mac users piss the h*ll out of me

I've got a Macbook Pro 15 w/ a Core i7. I love it incredibly. It's super fast and performs very well - I especially love the super fast boot up times compared to any PC. I do, however, have several PC computers including my own custom PC build. I'm looking to build a new PC soon too. I love the Windows 7 and XP interfaces. Personally though, I would say that my Mac is my favorite computer. The rumor about Mac's not getting viruses is completely untrue. Without going to any risky sites EVER on my Macbook Pro 15, I somehow managed to have my iTunes account hacked. Luckily for me, it was only $10 and iTunes restored the money for me, but still. How did someone get my iTunes password? That I'm unsure of, but I have only logged into that account from my Macbook. Either it was an inside job at iTunes or I was hacked. I'm still unsure as to which it was, but either way I don't believe that whole Mac's are more secure rumor.
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February 27, 2011 2:49:52 AM

keylogger, get security for that laptop eset just started making some, don't know how well it works
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August 17, 2011 2:56:20 PM

Well I have a Pc and a Mac, I just like Mac software better, especially for video editing. Macs are a bit expensive though, but windows sucks, if I can run OS X on a PC I would probably go for a PC (cheaper), but then again Macs looks just so much sexier.
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August 17, 2011 7:10:29 PM

I haven't found a laptop with a trackpad as good as the mac book pro in the windows world. I don't mind paying a little more for the industrial design of the mac book pro, since it is a portable item that you carry around. But I wish it was more customizable and more powerful.

The mac desktop options are insanely overpriced. PCs seem much better in this department.

I hate OSX and Windows 7 equally. But I do like real unix prompt on mac vs using cygwing or whatever on windows.
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September 23, 2011 4:21:53 AM

OK I know I'm entering this conversation (er, uh, hater sesh) way late, but I just came across this and feel compelled to add my two cents on the slim chance anyone else ever has the misfortune of ending up here. Let me start by stating two incontrovertible facts: 1. I'm a long-time Apple user; 2. My fundamental attitude towards Apple is that Cupertino can kiss my azz. In other words, I'm no fanboy. Frankly I'd like to see their entire marketing dept get cluster bombed. That said, there are too many glaring flaws in your argument (er, rant). So I proceed as follows:

1. COST:
You are correct (savor it, it doesn't last). No contesting this, when you buy an Apple you might as well just give them your bank card and bend over. The comparison specs you use are more or less valid. I'm building a 64bit Win 7 PC next week (just ordered up the parts today-- excited!) w/ an unlocked quad core i5 and a bunch of sick components and it's costing peanuts-- PEANUTS, I tell you! Mac is a rip, it's true. Oh, BTW PPC chips were made by Motorola, not IBM… what kind of geek are you, anyway, that's some basic nerd knowledge right there son.

2. OS:
You've capably demonstrated your non-existent knowledge of the Mac OS. All the things you say aren't possible, totally are. And really 'quirks' come down to habituation. If you're used to Mac OS, you will find Windows very annoying, and vice-versa. But there's really nothing you can do in one, that you can't do in the other. And of course I can - and do - also work from the command line on my Apple-- the fact OSX is "based off UNIX" is a *good* thing. And since we're talking about the OS being 'based off' of things, what's Win 7 based off? Oh yeah, clearly, transparently-- Mac OS! XP was sad, Vista was an utter train wreck and now they finally have the first decent Windows OS since NT and gee, wow, it sure looks and acts like OSX doesn't it? Ever see that old '90s nerd T-shirt that said "Windows 95 = Mac '89"? Some things never change…

Compatibility is no prob. I use my Mac for work and creative 'play' (like making music), not to play games (Playstation for that) and not to jerk off (sexy GF takes care of me). Everything I need - I mean *everything* - is available, functional, and the same price as the PC version, whether hardware (like my audio interface, tablet, etc.) or software. Lower price for the Adobe Master Collection for PC? Guess again mate.

Crashing: yep, my PPC Macs used to crash for sure. My Intel Mac Pro, never. Only badly written third-party software crashes, and it never takes the OS down w/ it. And even on the PPC, I never, ever had a crash that required me to do a reinstall. That's just crazy.

OS performance: I've used both extensively. Mac OS is faster. Honestly the only Windows OS I've ever seen perform even remotely impressively was NT, and that was way back in the day.

There's no charge for service packs. Ever. Speaking of charges-- Mac OSX: $30. Busted MS Windows OS: just shy of $300 (OK I actually bought the OEM disc for $140, but how many Windows users do that?). Also, all Macs ship w/ a full version of the software on a disc. PCs have that? Didn't think so.

Viruses: Macs are poorly protected; and yet somehow, I've never had one. Not one.

Upgrading and customizing: do it all the time. ALL the time.

Software: we covered this. You are wrong.

Repair: "Applecare is great"? For real? And YOU complain about the "retards"? It's a frackin scam. It's for the 'retards' you take every Mac user to be. Some of us are more than capable of handling this ourselves.

Gaming: Like I give a toss. If I did, I'd build a gaming PC. The Playstation suffices in those rare moments when I feel like letting myself degenerate. But mostly I prefer real pursuits in the real world. For example: you wanna blow something up? Then do it for real. That's what guns are for. That's why I own them.

Now for the fun part: As for your "aesthetic" PC case (what, it has a personality or something? Or did you mean 'aesthetically appealing'): this makes me laugh so hard the tears are coming. I love listening to PC fanatics talk about the great aesthetics of their cases and, oh dear God, their Windows OS. I can just see them after they've finished waxing eloquent on such matters, getting into their 'aesthetic' yellow Pontiac Aztec to go pick up some NFL posters and Budweiser mirrors to decorate their living rooms. These are the guys (and they are ALL guys) who think that trashy slag from the Transformers movie is hot, who put neon lights in their PC cases, who dream of one day living in a 'beautiful' McMansion; who completely fail to see the beauty in the graphics of games like Tempest, Rez, and Jet Grind Radio and think the latest 3D bore-gore shoot 'em up looks "awesome!"… I could go on. Do you think I'm a snob? Damn right. And I think those sorry fools are tasteless pigs. No, actually, I don't 'think' it, they truly are. A man who puts LEDs in his computer case is a man who would shag a sheep. And probably one w/o many other (free) options as far as that goes. I can talk a lot of trash on Apple (and believe me I do) but on this point, credit where credit is due. They have been setting the bar on industrial design of computers and operating systems for a long time, and the only other company / system that has ever come close was Commodore with the Amiga (now THAT was a sick system, but that's another story entirely). For true aesthetes, Microsoft's offerings - and the cases that house them - are and always have been nothing less than completely nauseating.

Don't try to fool yourself w/ the false consolation that I'm obviously some hipster / trendoid sucker. Not even close. Screw those tools. I'm a man of taste, experience, and ability. And a total nerd.

Anyway. Thanks for the fun! I was in a feisty mood and that fit the bill perfectly. Cheers mate.

p.s. My *customized* Mac Pro is SICK.

p.p.s. RE: "I'm a graphic designer and contrary to popular belief most designer prefer PC to apple." Really? Maybe it's no accident that you wrote "most designer", singular. I'ver worked in ad agencies from Amsterdam to NYC and the only PC people I ever saw or met at any of them were the IT staff who were kept quarantined in some nameless, windowless dungeon…
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September 24, 2011 3:06:17 AM

umm, for the Mac? Never really added it up... I guess I have over 4K in it already, not including any of the peripherals of course. A chunk more than an 'equivalent' PC would have cost, there's no denying it. But it's crazy fast, totally silent, and easy on the eyes. I dig it... for now. I have to admit I have a funny feeling that unless Apple changes course, it might be the last Mac I ever buy.

I can't believe nobody called me out on posting such a D-bag-ish reply to the OP. Guess everyone here really does know it's all in good fun. Cool.
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September 27, 2011 10:51:10 PM

Built a hackintosh :) 
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September 29, 2011 4:29:28 AM

COOL!

Is it fully functional? I heard there were insurmountable issues getting audio to work.

If yes: A. You are my hero ;)  and B. Any hardware specifics / caveats?

A hackintosh would be the ultimate for me. I built a 64bit Win 7 machine today. Actually got pretty upset about my (new!) Mac Pro hardware in the process-- no BluRay, no 6G SATA, PSU not nearly as powerful and etc. Then I installed Windows, and suddenly felt WAY better about my Mac. Windows still blows...
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September 29, 2011 8:41:51 AM

blackhawk1928 said:
^Buddy, the Cadillac CTS-V is a great car, don't get me wrong, the cadillac CTS-V sedan/coupe has a monster 556hp engine and provides solid torque, but sadley, a powerful engine is the only thing that it has...compared to BMW, its got no stability and handling at high speeds. Not just that, but its a supercharged engine...crummy and has lag...not only can't it do well at high speed, it can't do well at low speed due to lag of producing torque. My two best friends who are much older then me, they're actually my dads friends, one has an M3 with 414hp and one has a 551hp CTS-V, they went to a track to race and after reaching high speeds, the CTS-V couldn't not only keep up but became unstable and the driver couldn't handle turns :) . So no...BMW has the crown :) . Especially an M5 w/ 500hp, it can smoke the CTS-V, and they new M5 w/ almost 600hp will smoke it harder.

Not trying to hate, just saying :) .

But either way PC>Mac


Off topic:
Ok I know this is a computer forum, and the topic is Mac vs. PC, and this is going to be my first post on here, but I'm pretty big on cars and I just wanted to say that the statement about a supercharged engine having lag is false. It's turbochargers that cause engine lag. Superchargers and turbochargers increase power output by forced induction, with turbines. The difference is turbochargers spool up their turbines with the exhaust gases from the engine, so it takes time for the turbine to start spinning and compress more air into the engine, and the result is engine lag. Superchargers, however, spool up their turbines with belts hooked up the engine's crankshaft, so the turbine spools up instantly and power is more evenly distributed, unlike turbochargers where all the power is at the high-end RPMs.

On topic:
I don't dislike Macs. I think they're very good computers, (albeit a little overpriced) both the Macbooks and the all-in-ones. (Not the Mac Pro) Macbooks may not have the best hardware, but they have awesome build quality and battery life compared to other notebooks. So it's a trade-off. The thing I can't stand about Macs is the majority of it's users. Go into any coffee shop you'll agree that at least 5 people in there are using macbooks, and 2 of those users looks exactly like the kind of person who would try to tell you why Macs are better. Macs are better than PCs in certain aspects, but a majority of it's users don't exactly know why, and they think they do. Like really, they're convinced that they're computer savvy, which they only discovered since they bought a Mac. Once you start talking about the difference between the i7 and the Core 2 Duo, they just give you a blank stare and agree reluctantly, and then they continue on about some BS about OSX interfaces and whatnot, not really continuing on your topic at all. (If you couldn't tell, this is from personal experience) There are intelligent people out there with Macs and I like talking to them, but I can't stand a lot of Mac users. They just don't know what they're talking about.

btw, I will only mess with PC's. Built a PC a year and a half ago and now I'm hooked. Already upgrading :) 
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February 16, 2012 10:42:04 PM

meatwagon said:
OK I know I'm entering this conversation (er, uh, hater sesh) way late, but I just came across this and feel compelled to add my two cents on the slim chance anyone else ever has the misfortune of ending up here. Let me start by stating two incontrovertible facts: 1. I'm a long-time Apple user; 2. My fundamental attitude towards Apple is that Cupertino can kiss my azz. In other words, I'm no fanboy. Frankly I'd like to see their entire marketing dept get cluster bombed. That said, there are too many glaring flaws in your argument (er, rant). So I proceed as follows:

1. COST:
You are correct (savor it, it doesn't last). No contesting this, when you buy an Apple you might as well just give them your bank card and bend over. The comparison specs you use are more or less valid. I'm building a 64bit Win 7 PC next week (just ordered up the parts today-- excited!) w/ an unlocked quad core i5 and a bunch of sick components and it's costing peanuts-- PEANUTS, I tell you! Mac is a rip, it's true. Oh, BTW PPC chips were made by Motorola, not IBM… what kind of geek are you, anyway, that's some basic nerd knowledge right there son.

2. OS:
You've capably demonstrated your non-existent knowledge of the Mac OS. All the things you say aren't possible, totally are. And really 'quirks' come down to habituation. If you're used to Mac OS, you will find Windows very annoying, and vice-versa. But there's really nothing you can do in one, that you can't do in the other. And of course I can - and do - also work from the command line on my Apple-- the fact OSX is "based off UNIX" is a *good* thing. And since we're talking about the OS being 'based off' of things, what's Win 7 based off? Oh yeah, clearly, transparently-- Mac OS! XP was sad, Vista was an utter train wreck and now they finally have the first decent Windows OS since NT and gee, wow, it sure looks and acts like OSX doesn't it? Ever see that old '90s nerd T-shirt that said "Windows 95 = Mac '89"? Some things never change…

Compatibility is no prob. I use my Mac for work and creative 'play' (like making music), not to play games (Playstation for that) and not to jerk off (sexy GF takes care of me). Everything I need - I mean *everything* - is available, functional, and the same price as the PC version, whether hardware (like my audio interface, tablet, etc.) or software. Lower price for the Adobe Master Collection for PC? Guess again mate.

Crashing: yep, my PPC Macs used to crash for sure. My Intel Mac Pro, never. Only badly written third-party software crashes, and it never takes the OS down w/ it. And even on the PPC, I never, ever had a crash that required me to do a reinstall. That's just crazy.

OS performance: I've used both extensively. Mac OS is faster. Honestly the only Windows OS I've ever seen perform even remotely impressively was NT, and that was way back in the day.

There's no charge for service packs. Ever. Speaking of charges-- Mac OSX: $30. Busted MS Windows OS: just shy of $300 (OK I actually bought the OEM disc for $140, but how many Windows users do that?). Also, all Macs ship w/ a full version of the software on a disc. PCs have that? Didn't think so.

Viruses: Macs are poorly protected; and yet somehow, I've never had one. Not one.

Upgrading and customizing: do it all the time. ALL the time.

Software: we covered this. You are wrong.

Repair: "Applecare is great"? For real? And YOU complain about the "retards"? It's a frackin scam. It's for the 'retards' you take every Mac user to be. Some of us are more than capable of handling this ourselves.

Gaming: Like I give a toss. If I did, I'd build a gaming PC. The Playstation suffices in those rare moments when I feel like letting myself degenerate. But mostly I prefer real pursuits in the real world. For example: you wanna blow something up? Then do it for real. That's what guns are for. That's why I own them.

Now for the fun part: As for your "aesthetic" PC case (what, it has a personality or something? Or did you mean 'aesthetically appealing'): this makes me laugh so hard the tears are coming. I love listening to PC fanatics talk about the great aesthetics of their cases and, oh dear God, their Windows OS. I can just see them after they've finished waxing eloquent on such matters, getting into their 'aesthetic' yellow Pontiac Aztec to go pick up some NFL posters and Budweiser mirrors to decorate their living rooms. These are the guys (and they are ALL guys) who think that trashy slag from the Transformers movie is hot, who put neon lights in their PC cases, who dream of one day living in a 'beautiful' McMansion; who completely fail to see the beauty in the graphics of games like Tempest, Rez, and Jet Grind Radio and think the latest 3D bore-gore shoot 'em up looks "awesome!"… I could go on. Do you think I'm a snob? Damn right. And I think those sorry fools are tasteless pigs. No, actually, I don't 'think' it, they truly are. A man who puts LEDs in his computer case is a man who would shag a sheep. And probably one w/o many other (free) options as far as that goes. I can talk a lot of trash on Apple (and believe me I do) but on this point, credit where credit is due. They have been setting the bar on industrial design of computers and operating systems for a long time, and the only other company / system that has ever come close was Commodore with the Amiga (now THAT was a sick system, but that's another story entirely). For true aesthetes, Microsoft's offerings - and the cases that house them - are and always have been nothing less than completely nauseating.

Don't try to fool yourself w/ the false consolation that I'm obviously some hipster / trendoid sucker. Not even close. Screw those tools. I'm a man of taste, experience, and ability. And a total nerd.

Anyway. Thanks for the fun! I was in a feisty mood and that fit the bill perfectly. Cheers mate.

p.s. My *customized* Mac Pro is SICK.

p.p.s. RE: "I'm a graphic designer and contrary to popular belief most designer prefer PC to apple." Really? Maybe it's no accident that you wrote "most designer", singular. I'ver worked in ad agencies from Amsterdam to NYC and the only PC people I ever saw or met at any of them were the IT staff who were kept quarantined in some nameless, windowless dungeon…


LOL This is the first Mac vs. PC flamewar I have been in, for reference I have a MAC mini and a PC.

In my view,

Cost VS. Performance, PC win's hands down.. I have a £350.00 PC (AMD phenom 980 BE, which is a hexacore @ 4.6GHZ w/ WD raptors and 16GB DDR). I may not of bought all the parts new, but hell I can get away with it on a PC and mod the crap out of it as I see fit. Compare that to a mac of the same cost, oh wait you can't, there isn't one and even the basic model @ £500+ comes with a 5400 RPM HD.. Seriously?

I work with music hardware and app's a fair bit, everything is NOT available for MAC.. You can't use any expansion cards in MAC MINI / IMAC so if you ever wanted a studio class PCI card your screwed, if you work with music, you have to buy a UAD satellite so you get screwed again . Plus with limited amounts of USB which you can't expand so your equally as screwed (Especially devices using Phantom power). I won't even talk about MAC Pro's because I believe for my applications (Studio work / design work) is completely pointless waste of money.

In terms of OS use and reliability, I recorded a band in logic the other night. The MAC froze up and I lost my work without any reasons why, if it does it one more time it's off in the bin. My PC hasn't crashed once in over a year. I have to admit, I'm from a Windows background as you said I find the OS annoying.

I'm still not sure where this user friendly thing has come from? I find them no less user friendly than a PC, in fact in some cases I find the PC easier to work with. Not sure why it cost $300.00 for windows 7, I ran up to PC WORLD (Well known for being pricey) and I picked up a copy for £50.00.

Viruses, I have a firewall and never get them on my PC.. But then again I don't spend my time on dodgy sites and opening e-mail attachments with viruses.

Aesthetics, Flashy car.. Go for it, nice big house, why not? Hot GF with a nice ass, defo! Having an all in one MAC? Urr not on my list of priorities, it doesn't make me jump for joy like having a porsche parked out side. It's there to do a job, not to be a desirable so I couldn't really care.

Whilst I may look like I'm hating, everyone can buy whatever the hell they want.

But personally I don't see the point in Mac's, they offer nothing more than what my PC is capable of and my PC can do it at a fraction of the cost so I'm free to buy things I actually want... Instead of bending over and taking an apple.





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February 17, 2012 2:01:52 PM

PC users only get viruses when they do something stupid.

Admittedly, if you are on a Mac it is hard to get a virus even if you do something stupid.

Ok, I get it, if you want to spend all your days surfing porn and downloading crap off BitTorrent sites, then yes you should probably get a Mac, because otherwise you will probably new get viruses on a daily basis.

How likely is that? I get the feeling that these days that is what the average person actually really does with their computers most of the time. Illegal downloading of things in BitTorrent sites is one of the biggest crime areas in the last 5 years.

I really hate to say it, but if you are going to do stupid illegal things, then you should probably do it on a Mac.

Otherwise, PCs just plain get you more for less.

Windows 7 costs $180 for a legal retail copy of home premium? The OSX from the Mac in the original post costs you about $2000.

Anything you can get with an Apple logo on it you can get something better and cheaper with a non-Apple logo on it.

Marketing - Apple did a good job of branding itself lately, that is true. I have to give them that.

MacOS not crashing - Ever tried Ubuntu Linux? My Ubuntu doesn't crash and I haven't heard of anyone else's crashing either. It is much easier to use than Windows. Completely stable in my experience. For the machine in the original post, it would cost about $2000 less than MacOS.

Again - Anything with an Apple logo on it you can get somewhere else cheaper.

You can dual boot Windows on your MacOS? I can dual boot Windows/Ubuntu too.

Admittedly, I haven't touched a Mac in a very long time (thx god), but I highly doubt that they have anything approaching the usefulness of Ubuntu's Software Center.

Tell me, on a Mac, can you just type in say "dvd" and get a huge list of programs with that keyword that are pretty much guaranteed to work, for free, with a 1 click install?

Admittedly, games work about as good on Ubuntu as they do on MacOS, but if you want games you want Windows anyway.

As near as I can tell, there is zero downside to running a dual boot Windows 7/Ubuntu install on a computer as compared to running just straight MacOS.

Such a computer could boot into Ubuntu for anyone with no sophistication who is looking for utter simplicity and reliability, and it could boot into Windows for anyone that wants games, more/better programs, and more control over their environment.

All you get when you pay 50% more for an Apple is the logo and you get to feel like you are somehow better than other people who don't have that logo on things. That is all.

Anyone with a Mac can feel free to tell me anything they can do, and I bet I can do it either better or easier on one of my installed environments.

BTW, I do find it ironic that so many Mac users out there are running Windows on their stupidly overpriced hardware.

Actually, I lied, there is one more thing that is of a benefit to you if you have a Mac. If you have one, it means you have tons of money to just flush down the drain, that makes you appealing to women. Kinda like how women get all interested in you if you tell them you are a doctor or how they get interested in you if you pull up in a Bugatti Veyron.

Women like it if you visibly show that you have so much spare cash laying around that you don't know what to do with it all, and you can do that by owning Apple hardware.

I wish that last part were not the case, that women would prefer a man who knows how to spend money wisely rather than one that just plain doesn't need to, but its not. I can't even argue that, it just isn't the case. More money to flush down the drain is always rated higher.
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February 18, 2012 1:18:00 PM

That isn't necessarily conflicting. You should read the boo, "Why Beautiful People Have More Daughters".

Many women would only want to do such things if they intended it to be a one night stand. They would drag it out more if they respected themselves and wanted you to respect them, which could be important in a long term relationship.

There are other darker ways that poll could be interpreted too.

Anyway, I am not trying to get into that stuff. I just wanted to point it out without much discussion on that topic. This is a hardware forum, after all, not a dating forum.
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February 20, 2012 10:13:50 PM

if you want to game buy the custom built. if you dont wannat to game buy a mac.
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February 21, 2012 12:41:34 PM

Buying a mac is the wrong decision even if you don't want to game, unless you like to pay 50% more to have a cute little logo added to your product.
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May 7, 2012 5:59:43 PM

I'm a graphic designer / web designer. What kills me is how everyone in the industry swears by mac, but as previously stated they're modern clean nice looking cases, with a rich dog poop creamy center. I really don't get why we have to use MAC's. I love how they look I love the OS it runs smoothly for me. However the price is ridiculous and I don't really see how it improves a designer or whatever promise they've made. I have 6 years of experience in design, I'm in a class of beginners and let me tell you squiggly lines don't look better, just because they're on a mac.
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June 14, 2012 4:19:57 AM

I just don't like how Apple disables things that would make their products much better, in an attempt to get us to buy more of their products. For example:

You can buy books through iTunes on your computer but can only read them through an iOS device

iOS devices can't display flash, so you'll need a Mac laptop or desktop to do that. (yes everyone knows this one)

The files on iOS devices are hidden when connected to a desktop, while other smart phones and tablets can drag and drop files for simple file storage or organizing the way you want to

You can't add e-mail attachments when inside the iOS e-mail (but you can e-mail a photo or pdf file from the file at least)

The iPad is missing simple apps like the calculator and stock market

You can't delete the Newsstand app or hide it in a folder. Do we really need the apple store, app store, itunes, newsstand, ibooks, iUniversity, on our phone ?

AirPlay can only display certain apps. HBO Go is just a blank screen with your $50 iphone/ipad to tv connector.

iPad is retina display but many apps are standard definition only like Netflix and HBO Go. What's the point in a million pixels to watch a movie in 300p?

No sim card slot, no hdmi slot, no usb slot on iOS devices, only their funny looking connector or special apple connectors that are expensive

oh and my iPhone 4S has frozen while opening e-mails and other random times

they keep excluding older models of iOS devices in the iOS updates. I'm sure the iPhone 4 can hardware wise handle Siri and other updates they are leaving out from it. They're forcing people to buy new expensive phones just to get small software features added.

my friend has an iMac and to play diablo 3 he has a fan permanently blowing air against the back of it where the video card is. I know a few other mac gamer's whos hard drive or video card have fried and they try to blame it on stupid things like only pressing X to quit out of programs and not fully quitting out by shift click exit .. kind of sad to listen to

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June 14, 2012 7:45:37 AM

I just want to say macs are good computers no denying it although they are over priced and can only play minecraft. They are very good for video and music production but the hardware does not mach the price but they are very nice looking computers with a great operating system and that is why i like to game on a pc and do my normal tasks on a mac and if you say a mac is better you stupid and if you say a pc is better you are a idiot they are both great for different tasks and in a way you cant compare them.
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June 14, 2012 7:48:38 AM

And by the way if you look at the original mac software microsoft copied mac especially with desktop icons and the paint utility.
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July 12, 2012 10:41:20 PM

The discussion here starts off broken.

On the price point, this thread compares the price of a fully built ready to go apple with the parts cost of a top end PC.

I suppose many folks here would not put any value on their own time (which is a bit sad), but since the discussion is meant to show how the common dolt is being duped, you have to consider the package price.

Of course, that also means that everyone who has said "all of this is sooooo true" has never bought furniture because the component price for wood, stain an lacquer is so much less than what you buy finished furniture for, you would have to be a stupid status fixated hipster to spend that kind of cash.... Everyone has the knowledge and skill to build their own furniture and finish it properly.

The common dolt would have to spend a tremedous amount of time learning enough about PC's, parts, (just how much time would you spend comparing Intel vs AMD and all the processor variations, and then a video card, etc.) and looking around for the least expensive vendors. For the "average person" who really knows nothing about computers, that is an insane amount of time. That alone likely covers the difference between the two options.

If you don't believe it, consider the least competent person you have helped out with their computer (often a relative would be a good example for this, perhaps your parents). Assume they *needed* a computer. You give them two options: 1) a mac ready to go, or 2) a cardboard box with all of the PC component parts and a couple of discs with windows and some basic apps and $1000. $1000 being half the cost difference originally quoted because half the effort is getting all the parts together. We will be generous and say that in the box are all the manuals and errata sheets for the PC parts. All of them, not just the useful pages. The catch is that if they take the box of PC parts, they have to put it together entirely by themselves and have to get it completely done and working before they get the cash. If you found out a month later that they had a working computer, which one do you think they would have gone with?

You are going to be picking up a box of parts and your $1000. They would not have gotten past the first few pages of the first manual and decided that $1000 didn't look all that appealing if they actually *needed* a computer.

So, if you want to make a real comparison, you have to compare the Apple to the equivalent Dell/Alienware, HP, Lenovo even Acer. The gap does begin to shrink. Quite a bit. Good luck finding ANY vendors that would deliver an equivalent to the custom top of the line bundle offered before (or the current equivalent).

For lower end hardware, you can't beat a PC. It's basic economics. Apple, the sole provider of apple products, has no competition in the field, sets their own bar and delivers, at what some consider a premium. There are many PC vendors, and their core product is often reduced to who sells it for the lowest cost. So your off the shelf PCs tend to have cheaper components, or less than optimal memory, or tons of bloatwae... everything that would make the end user unhappy with the PC "experience."

I'm a PC guy. I have never owned a Mac. And my few forays into finishing furniture have told me, that I would rather pay for finished furniture. I don't do my own auto oil changes anymore either. Why, because the value of the time and effort involved was much higher to do it myself than to pay someone else to do it. I will say that I do have an iphone and I love it. Mainly because I only want my phone to do a few things, and I want it to be simple, and when I have to use my phone for something other than talking, I want it to be quick and intuitive. I'm not using it to make graphics in GIMP/Inkscape. I'm probably just looking up something simple on a webpage. I will leave complicated for my home or work PC.

To try to make comparisons between a Mac and a parted custom machine is just logically flawed. There is a value to time and a value to knowledge Likely that is how a lot of people earn their living. The common dolt does not always have the time or knowlege to make a PC work as well for them as a Mac would. I know lots of people who when faced with a BSOD, stuck their computer in a closet and eventually just bought another PC because they didn't know what to do with it.

Apples and PCs both have their place and uses, and both have pros and cons to particular people. Macs do appear to be more intuitive and easier to use. PCs appear to be able to do a lot more, but require a lot more know-how to setup and keep them going. I guess it all depends on what you need your computer to do, and where you place the value of ease vs. flexibility.
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July 13, 2012 4:11:37 AM

jerryperk said:
The discussion here starts off broken.

On the price point, this thread compares the price of a fully built ready to go apple with the parts cost of a top end PC.

I suppose many folks here would not put any value on their own time (which is a bit sad), but since the discussion is meant to show how the common dolt is being duped, you have to consider the package price.

Of course, that also means that everyone who has said "all of this is sooooo true" has never bought furniture because the component price for wood, stain an lacquer is so much less than what you buy finished furniture for, you would have to be a stupid status fixated hipster to spend that kind of cash.... Everyone has the knowledge and skill to build their own furniture and finish it properly.

The common dolt would have to spend a tremedous amount of time learning enough about PC's, parts, (just how much time would you spend comparing Intel vs AMD and all the processor variations, and then a video card, etc.) and looking around for the least expensive vendors. For the "average person" who really knows nothing about computers, that is an insane amount of time. That alone likely covers the difference between the two options.

If you don't believe it, consider the least competent person you have helped out with their computer (often a relative would be a good example for this, perhaps your parents). Assume they *needed* a computer. You give them two options: 1) a mac ready to go, or 2) a cardboard box with all of the PC component parts and a couple of discs with windows and some basic apps and $1000. $1000 being half the cost difference originally quoted because half the effort is getting all the parts together. We will be generous and say that in the box are all the manuals and errata sheets for the PC parts. All of them, not just the useful pages. The catch is that if they take the box of PC parts, they have to put it together entirely by themselves and have to get it completely done and working before they get the cash. If you found out a month later that they had a working computer, which one do you think they would have gone with?

You are going to be picking up a box of parts and your $1000. They would not have gotten past the first few pages of the first manual and decided that $1000 didn't look all that appealing if they actually *needed* a computer.

So, if you want to make a real comparison, you have to compare the Apple to the equivalent Dell/Alienware, HP, Lenovo even Acer. The gap does begin to shrink. Quite a bit. Good luck finding ANY vendors that would deliver an equivalent to the custom top of the line bundle offered before (or the current equivalent).

For lower end hardware, you can't beat a PC. It's basic economics. Apple, the sole provider of apple products, has no competition in the field, sets their own bar and delivers, at what some consider a premium. There are many PC vendors, and their core product is often reduced to who sells it for the lowest cost. So your off the shelf PCs tend to have cheaper components, or less than optimal memory, or tons of bloatwae... everything that would make the end user unhappy with the PC "experience."

I'm a PC guy. I have never owned a Mac. And my few forays into finishing furniture have told me, that I would rather pay for finished furniture. I don't do my own auto oil changes anymore either. Why, because the value of the time and effort involved was much higher to do it myself than to pay someone else to do it. I will say that I do have an iphone and I love it. Mainly because I only want my phone to do a few things, and I want it to be simple, and when I have to use my phone for something other than talking, I want it to be quick and intuitive. I'm not using it to make graphics in GIMP/Inkscape. I'm probably just looking up something simple on a webpage. I will leave complicated for my home or work PC.

To try to make comparisons between a Mac and a parted custom machine is just logically flawed. There is a value to time and a value to knowledge Likely that is how a lot of people earn their living. The common dolt does not always have the time or knowlege to make a PC work as well for them as a Mac would. I know lots of people who when faced with a BSOD, stuck their computer in a closet and eventually just bought another PC because they didn't know what to do with it.

Apples and PCs both have their place and uses, and both have pros and cons to particular people. Macs do appear to be more intuitive and easier to use. PCs appear to be able to do a lot more, but require a lot more know-how to setup and keep them going. I guess it all depends on what you need your computer to do, and where you place the value of ease vs. flexibility.


Great Points! I can't believe someone said that more designers us PC than Mac... you must work at microsoft or something. I only know 2 designers that prefer windows and I've been doing design for 7+ years.

You want to talk about build vs buying a mac? Then talk build vs buying a pc... you get the same outcome.

Check out this video. http://youtu.be/hkzUiqJQIIk
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July 14, 2012 1:13:13 PM

Eh, I don't hate macs. I hate their users. Okay, not all their users. Just the ones who are arrogant and try to talk down/belittle you for using a PC.

Them: "Oh, you use a PC?"
Me: "Yeah"
Them: "Oh you poor, deprived soul."

Yeah, I'm a poor, deprived soul... with my poor, deprived foot up your cocky ass.

If you use a Mac, good for you. There are reasons some prefer the Mac. My girlfriend has a Mac and she loves it. I don't mind using it, though I do prefer Windows OS over OS X. And hey, look at that, I have my reasons for using a Window's based PC... is there anything wrong with that? Nope.

Though, I have to say, if you bash Windows because you aren't used to it, then its only fair that I bash OS X because I'm not used to it either. But I don't, because I know its different to use and the fault lies with me, not the OS or the computer.
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