PC vs. Mac...The end all discussion

I think she also said the virus thing, mac users piss the h*ll out of me

This is an amazing well put together article and very true in any sense. I'm a graphic designer and contrary to popular belief most designer prefer PC to apple. The majority of reason you see companies have apple is because as a company they get a good discount for ordering a bundle of them for their department. But today that's really no longer the case since now PC companies now offer the same discounts but with a more versatile product.

I own both and I enjoy them, yes the Apple boot a little faster but not by much. At the end of the day though I find myself using my PC much more than my Apple. I really use my Apple as a center piece in my bedroom because it looks nice.

I think it's just hip. Just like Nikes.

PCs and Sauconys all the way!!!!

Nahhhh I'm pretty sure almost every high-ranked member on Tom's realizes the benefits of pcs

I bet if everybody who didn't think macs were a good deal posted a message in this thread it would be the longest yet!

bring it on!!!!

Have you converted him or does he insist on buying a replacement GPU?

I'm the only one in my immediate family that uses PCs, everyone else on old, slow macs

I think you gotta change the comparison system, the custom pc.

While I think the idea of trying to compare apples to apples by choosing the same xeon CPU and same graphics muscle, how about putting more graphical muscle while changing the CPU down to the i7 990x, it overclocks much more easily and the accompanying mobo will be significantly cheaper.

My idea:
i7 990x ($1050)
Asus rampage iii extreme ($380)
same as you ($350)
gtx 580 ($500)
need a 2tb like mac samsung spinpoint f4 ($80)
ssd is essential ocz vertex 2 120gb 3.5'' ($230)
ST1000-P ($185)
onboard should be enough unless audio intensive then get a $100 card (not included in total)
same blu ($80) pretty sure this can do dvds as well
rv02b-ew ($190) great aesthetics
windows 7 pro 64-bit oem ($140) get 3rd party encryption

Total: $3185
this has a much better upgrade path than the mac and the custom pc you chose and will last for 6+ years with upgrades every 6 months

Nice build, I fully understand that I could have sourced something alot less expensive while better performing and a little more future proof aswell. Although this was not really my objective as my point was to build something spec'd equally (with a couple small add on's to sweeten the pot) to the Mac Pro with all top end parts to illustrate just how much apple jacks up the prices on their computers not necessarily how much of a better computer can be built. I figured this would be easier for mac users to understand since most of them know nothing about hardware configs anyways lol

PS, I forgot to put 2X in front of the HDD listing. The build is priced for the second drive

LOL!! I like that ;-))

i have to say i agree and disagree with this thread. While i am an apple fanboy (just the laptops) i was seriously thinking about building my own pc. A really close friend of mine is a vp at apple right now and he fought valiently for me just buying a MacPro. i used the whole "i can build a better pc for less" talk and he used the "your not buying just hardware, your buying an experience" talk. I decided just to hold out until the sandy bridges come out to make a decision . What ponders my brain is that Apple sales are up for 20 quarters in a rowcompared to pc sales, and apple stock is still rising. I said to my friend, people just buy Mac's because they dont understand how to REALLY use a computer, and he retorted with the fact that more and more buisnesses are switching over to macs from pcs. Why?

side note- i like the new apple monitors

This is a response to the OP and this specific post:

I definetily agree that Mac aren't everything they say. Infact I agree with everything said in the OP. The thing is, when it comes down the core, OSX/Macs are easier to use for computer illiterate people. Yeah its expensive, but for somebody like my grandpa is doesn't have a damn clue what a computer is and still thinks he's in the 2nd centery, a Mac is easier to use, simply because you can't really mess with it or customize it which makes it stable. In windows, its extremely customizable, but with customizability comes lots of *** 3rd party software that can cause crashes and lots of options which do provide much increased functionality but when messed with by somebody who doesn't know what they are doing, it can turn into problems.

Simply Put:
Mac=For computer illiterate
PC=Computer literate
Linux=Computer professionals

^Its as simple as that

Now
--------------------------------------------------------------------
To respond to the post I Quoted:
-I am a owner, A PROUD owner of a BMW. Unlike paying for a brand name when you buy a mac, when you buy a BMW (Not sure about mercedes, never had one), but when you buy a BMW, you get your money's worth...performance, handling, and general quality are absolutley untouched. Yes BMW's are more expensive but you pay for the Name AND QUALITY. I can garentee you no japanese, chinese, american...etc car or any of those cars can even touch my BMW in terms of handling and performance...some of those asian or american made cars might have a more powerful engine then my BMW but in race, i'd smoke them, turning, balance, steering..etc is 10x better. You can insult mercedes all you want, but I love my BMW and there aint nothing changing that.

thanks for your input, I am a big fan of beamers as well, they have always offered great performance and reliability, especially now since they are becoming more competitivly priced. They once held the crown in performance luxury market but that crown now rests firmly atop the Cadillac CTS-V. Its faster stops shorter and handles better than a BMW M5, the exterior styling is up to personal taste ( i like it better, looks more aggressive) and the interiors are pretty much on par with one another as far as materials used. Not tryin to hate, im just sayin.

Nurburgring Lap Records

7:59.32 Cadillac CTS-V

8:28 --- BMW E49 M5

8:13 --- BMW M5

8:07.7 - BMW M6

If you can find me a better test of overall vehicle performance and stability than the standard the entire planet has relied upon for many years, than be my guest but from what i see the cadillac looks to be a much faster car, maybe ur buddy just needs to learn how to control his ride a little better.

I've got a Macbook Pro 15 w/ a Core i7. I love it incredibly. It's super fast and performs very well - I especially love the super fast boot up times compared to any PC. I do, however, have several PC computers including my own custom PC build. I'm looking to build a new PC soon too. I love the Windows 7 and XP interfaces. Personally though, I would say that my Mac is my favorite computer. The rumor about Mac's not getting viruses is completely untrue. Without going to any risky sites EVER on my Macbook Pro 15, I somehow managed to have my iTunes account hacked. Luckily for me, it was only $10 and iTunes restored the money for me, but still. How did someone get my iTunes password? That I'm unsure of, but I have only logged into that account from my Macbook. Either it was an inside job at iTunes or I was hacked. I'm still unsure as to which it was, but either way I don't believe that whole Mac's are more secure rumor.

Well I have a Pc and a Mac, I just like Mac software better, especially for video editing. Macs are a bit expensive though, but windows sucks, if I can run OS X on a PC I would probably go for a PC (cheaper), but then again Macs looks just so much sexier.

OK I know I'm entering this conversation (er, uh, hater sesh) way late, but I just came across this and feel compelled to add my two cents on the slim chance anyone else ever has the misfortune of ending up here. Let me start by stating two incontrovertible facts: 1. I'm a long-time Apple user; 2. My fundamental attitude towards Apple is that Cupertino can kiss my azz. In other words, I'm no fanboy. Frankly I'd like to see their entire marketing dept get cluster bombed. That said, there are too many glaring flaws in your argument (er, rant). So I proceed as follows:

1. COST:
You are correct (savor it, it doesn't last). No contesting this, when you buy an Apple you might as well just give them your bank card and bend over. The comparison specs you use are more or less valid. I'm building a 64bit Win 7 PC next week (just ordered up the parts today-- excited!) w/ an unlocked quad core i5 and a bunch of sick components and it's costing peanuts-- PEANUTS, I tell you! Mac is a rip, it's true. Oh, BTW PPC chips were made by Motorola, not IBM… what kind of geek are you, anyway, that's some basic nerd knowledge right there son.

2. OS:
You've capably demonstrated your non-existent knowledge of the Mac OS. All the things you say aren't possible, totally are. And really 'quirks' come down to habituation. If you're used to Mac OS, you will find Windows very annoying, and vice-versa. But there's really nothing you can do in one, that you can't do in the other. And of course I can - and do - also work from the command line on my Apple-- the fact OSX is "based off UNIX" is a *good* thing. And since we're talking about the OS being 'based off' of things, what's Win 7 based off? Oh yeah, clearly, transparently-- Mac OS! XP was sad, Vista was an utter train wreck and now they finally have the first decent Windows OS since NT and gee, wow, it sure looks and acts like OSX doesn't it? Ever see that old '90s nerd T-shirt that said "Windows 95 = Mac '89"? Some things never change…

Compatibility is no prob. I use my Mac for work and creative 'play' (like making music), not to play games (Playstation for that) and not to jerk off (sexy GF takes care of me). Everything I need - I mean *everything* - is available, functional, and the same price as the PC version, whether hardware (like my audio interface, tablet, etc.) or software. Lower price for the Adobe Master Collection for PC? Guess again mate.

Crashing: yep, my PPC Macs used to crash for sure. My Intel Mac Pro, never. Only badly written third-party software crashes, and it never takes the OS down w/ it. And even on the PPC, I never, ever had a crash that required me to do a reinstall. That's just crazy.

OS performance: I've used both extensively. Mac OS is faster. Honestly the only Windows OS I've ever seen perform even remotely impressively was NT, and that was way back in the day.

There's no charge for service packs. Ever. Speaking of charges-- Mac OSX: $30. Busted MS Windows OS: just shy of $300 (OK I actually bought the OEM disc for $140, but how many Windows users do that?). Also, all Macs ship w/ a full version of the software on a disc. PCs have that? Didn't think so.

Viruses: Macs are poorly protected; and yet somehow, I've never had one. Not one.

Upgrading and customizing: do it all the time. ALL the time.

Software: we covered this. You are wrong.

Repair: "Applecare is great"? For real? And YOU complain about the "retards"? It's a frackin scam. It's for the 'retards' you take every Mac user to be. Some of us are more than capable of handling this ourselves.

Gaming: Like I give a toss. If I did, I'd build a gaming PC. The Playstation suffices in those rare moments when I feel like letting myself degenerate. But mostly I prefer real pursuits in the real world. For example: you wanna blow something up? Then do it for real. That's what guns are for. That's why I own them.

Now for the fun part: As for your "aesthetic" PC case (what, it has a personality or something? Or did you mean 'aesthetically appealing'): this makes me laugh so hard the tears are coming. I love listening to PC fanatics talk about the great aesthetics of their cases and, oh dear God, their Windows OS. I can just see them after they've finished waxing eloquent on such matters, getting into their 'aesthetic' yellow Pontiac Aztec to go pick up some NFL posters and Budweiser mirrors to decorate their living rooms. These are the guys (and they are ALL guys) who think that trashy slag from the Transformers movie is hot, who put neon lights in their PC cases, who dream of one day living in a 'beautiful' McMansion; who completely fail to see the beauty in the graphics of games like Tempest, Rez, and Jet Grind Radio and think the latest 3D bore-gore shoot 'em up looks "awesome!"… I could go on. Do you think I'm a snob? Damn right. And I think those sorry fools are tasteless pigs. No, actually, I don't 'think' it, they truly are. A man who puts LEDs in his computer case is a man who would shag a sheep. And probably one w/o many other (free) options as far as that goes. I can talk a lot of trash on Apple (and believe me I do) but on this point, credit where credit is due. They have been setting the bar on industrial design of computers and operating systems for a long time, and the only other company / system that has ever come close was Commodore with the Amiga (now THAT was a sick system, but that's another story entirely). For true aesthetes, Microsoft's offerings - and the cases that house them - are and always have been nothing less than completely nauseating.

Don't try to fool yourself w/ the false consolation that I'm obviously some hipster / trendoid sucker. Not even close. Screw those tools. I'm a man of taste, experience, and ability. And a total nerd.

Anyway. Thanks for the fun! I was in a feisty mood and that fit the bill perfectly. Cheers mate.

p.s. My *customized* Mac Pro is SICK.

p.p.s. RE: "I'm a graphic designer and contrary to popular belief most designer prefer PC to apple." Really? Maybe it's no accident that you wrote "most designer", singular. I'ver worked in ad agencies from Amsterdam to NYC and the only PC people I ever saw or met at any of them were the IT staff who were kept quarantined in some nameless, windowless dungeon…

Built a hackintosh

Off topic:
Ok I know this is a computer forum, and the topic is Mac vs. PC, and this is going to be my first post on here, but I'm pretty big on cars and I just wanted to say that the statement about a supercharged engine having lag is false. It's turbochargers that cause engine lag. Superchargers and turbochargers increase power output by forced induction, with turbines. The difference is turbochargers spool up their turbines with the exhaust gases from the engine, so it takes time for the turbine to start spinning and compress more air into the engine, and the result is engine lag. Superchargers, however, spool up their turbines with belts hooked up the engine's crankshaft, so the turbine spools up instantly and power is more evenly distributed, unlike turbochargers where all the power is at the high-end RPMs.

On topic:
I don't dislike Macs. I think they're very good computers, (albeit a little overpriced) both the Macbooks and the all-in-ones. (Not the Mac Pro) Macbooks may not have the best hardware, but they have awesome build quality and battery life compared to other notebooks. So it's a trade-off. The thing I can't stand about Macs is the majority of it's users. Go into any coffee shop you'll agree that at least 5 people in there are using macbooks, and 2 of those users looks exactly like the kind of person who would try to tell you why Macs are better. Macs are better than PCs in certain aspects, but a majority of it's users don't exactly know why, and they think they do. Like really, they're convinced that they're computer savvy, which they only discovered since they bought a Mac. Once you start talking about the difference between the i7 and the Core 2 Duo, they just give you a blank stare and agree reluctantly, and then they continue on about some BS about OSX interfaces and whatnot, not really continuing on your topic at all. (If you couldn't tell, this is from personal experience) There are intelligent people out there with Macs and I like talking to them, but I can't stand a lot of Mac users. They just don't know what they're talking about.

btw, I will only mess with PC's. Built a PC a year and a half ago and now I'm hooked. Already upgrading

PC users only get viruses when they do something stupid.

Admittedly, if you are on a Mac it is hard to get a virus even if you do something stupid.

Ok, I get it, if you want to spend all your days surfing porn and downloading crap off BitTorrent sites, then yes you should probably get a Mac, because otherwise you will probably new get viruses on a daily basis.

How likely is that? I get the feeling that these days that is what the average person actually really does with their computers most of the time. Illegal downloading of things in BitTorrent sites is one of the biggest crime areas in the last 5 years.

I really hate to say it, but if you are going to do stupid illegal things, then you should probably do it on a Mac.

Otherwise, PCs just plain get you more for less.

Windows 7 costs $180 for a legal retail copy of home premium? The OSX from the Mac in the original post costs you about $2000.

Anything you can get with an Apple logo on it you can get something better and cheaper with a non-Apple logo on it.

Marketing - Apple did a good job of branding itself lately, that is true. I have to give them that.

MacOS not crashing - Ever tried Ubuntu Linux? My Ubuntu doesn't crash and I haven't heard of anyone else's crashing either. It is much easier to use than Windows. Completely stable in my experience. For the machine in the original post, it would cost about $2000 less than MacOS.

Again - Anything with an Apple logo on it you can get somewhere else cheaper.

You can dual boot Windows on your MacOS? I can dual boot Windows/Ubuntu too.

Admittedly, I haven't touched a Mac in a very long time (thx god), but I highly doubt that they have anything approaching the usefulness of Ubuntu's Software Center.

Tell me, on a Mac, can you just type in say "dvd" and get a huge list of programs with that keyword that are pretty much guaranteed to work, for free, with a 1 click install?

Admittedly, games work about as good on Ubuntu as they do on MacOS, but if you want games you want Windows anyway.

As near as I can tell, there is zero downside to running a dual boot Windows 7/Ubuntu install on a computer as compared to running just straight MacOS.

Such a computer could boot into Ubuntu for anyone with no sophistication who is looking for utter simplicity and reliability, and it could boot into Windows for anyone that wants games, more/better programs, and more control over their environment.

All you get when you pay 50% more for an Apple is the logo and you get to feel like you are somehow better than other people who don't have that logo on things. That is all.

Anyone with a Mac can feel free to tell me anything they can do, and I bet I can do it either better or easier on one of my installed environments.

BTW, I do find it ironic that so many Mac users out there are running Windows on their stupidly overpriced hardware.

Actually, I lied, there is one more thing that is of a benefit to you if you have a Mac. If you have one, it means you have tons of money to just flush down the drain, that makes you appealing to women. Kinda like how women get all interested in you if you tell them you are a doctor or how they get interested in you if you pull up in a Bugatti Veyron.

Women like it if you visibly show that you have so much spare cash laying around that you don't know what to do with it all, and you can do that by owning Apple hardware.

I wish that last part were not the case, that women would prefer a man who knows how to spend money wisely rather than one that just plain doesn't need to, but its not. I can't even argue that, it just isn't the case. More money to flush down the drain is always rated higher.

if you want to game buy the custom built. if you dont wannat to game buy a mac.

I'm a graphic designer / web designer. What kills me is how everyone in the industry swears by mac, but as previously stated they're modern clean nice looking cases, with a rich dog poop creamy center. I really don't get why we have to use MAC's. I love how they look I love the OS it runs smoothly for me. However the price is ridiculous and I don't really see how it improves a designer or whatever promise they've made. I have 6 years of experience in design, I'm in a class of beginners and let me tell you squiggly lines don't look better, just because they're on a mac.