PSU and upgrading

[brandondiep]

So currently I have a MSI 785gtm-e45 board, phenom x4 9850 (2.9 oc) , 4gbs ddr2, 460 gtx sc (oc), 500gb 7200 black hdd, 5900 rpm lp 1tb, dvd drive, 4 case fans and a Coolermaster hyper N520 cpu cooler. The corsair VX450 W is powering all of this and everything is running perfectly. But i was wondering if i have enough power to upgrade, such as a more modern CPU/ram/motherboard. I was thinking of getting a new board, 8gbs of ddr3 and a phenom 2 x4. I will not be in sli ever unless i win the lottery and nothing top of the line will ever get into my hands ( student ). Thank you for reading.

 

[Silvune]

Well that CPU has a TDP of 125, which is the same as some of the current Phenom II X4 series, and considering that the 9850 was built on a larger processor than the II X4 (65 vs 45nm) they are at worst going to have similar power consumption, so I would think that the Corsair VX450 would be able to handle your planned upgrade as long as you go for a 125W (at most) CPU again.

Wasn't the VX450 based on a design that was used in a lot of 500W PSUs?

 

[brandondiep]

Yeah alot of people said its as good as cheaper 550-600 watts psu. Yeah the phenom 9850 is a power hog, I had to bump the voltage to like 1.4 just to oc to 2.9, and it can barly go anymore without burning my house down

 

[brandondiep]

was thinking of the phenom 2 x4 955 be, would my psu be able to power it with an oc around 3.8

 

[Silvune]

Don't see why not.

 

[dalauder]

Go here and check if your PSU is adequate for what you want to do: http://extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp
Assume 15-20% capacitor aging since your PSU's not new and you want to build something new with it.

My estimate comes up with 509W Minimum for your system and 559W Recommended. That's assuming 20% aging (conservative) and two USB devices. So I'd say 450W is REALLY pushing it.

 

[brandondiep]

Might go sandy bridge 2500k and save like 30 Watts since its only 95 and ddr3 uses less power also

 

[Silvune]

To get above 500W minimum from that calculator you have to set everything to 100%, which is not going to happen unless you run stress/torture testing programs or folding, and you'd have to do it a lot to be worried.

And to be honest I would question whether the power draw would go that high even if you did load up all the components 100%. My guess would be 300 watts.

 

[dalauder]

I got it with everything at 90%, 20% Aging, two USB (spearkers & external HDD or webcam?), and an OC'd Phenom II (204W itself at 4.2GHz 1.5V). I don't know where you're getting your numbers Silvune, but you're giving this guy TERRIBLE advice.

The reference GTX 460 is rated for 160W and OC'd ones can use up 225W theoretically. Then we're at about 6W per HDD and a DVD. That's a bare minimum of 411W (90% usage such as video encoding and 20% capacitor aging). That's assuming the motherboard & RAM use ZERO power and ignoring 5W USB devices. No--a GTX 460 should use more than 300W whenever you game.

 

[Silvune]

And you are overestimating power consumption, which is very common.

A survey of reviews only shows one system where the power consumption of the whole system went above 300W and that was by a massive 7W.
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/graphics/2010/07/12/nvidia-geforce-gtx-460-graphics-card-review/11 With an i7-965 3.2GHz, system peak power consumption was shown on the 1GB to be 270W.
http://www.guru3d.com/article/geforce-gtx-460-review/13 With an i7-965 3.7GHz, energy saving functions disabled. Peak was shown to be 307W.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-gtx-460-gf104-fermi,2684-13.html i7-980X 3.33GHz, power savings enabled. Also only got 270W out of it.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/3809/nvidias-geforce-gtx-460-the-200-king/17 i7-920 3.33GHz. 330W under furmark, 290 gaming. This one actually shows that you have to SLI GTX 460s to get power consumption over 400 watts for the system.

I will take your theoretical maximum of 225W seriously if you can actually find a GTX 460 with a 8pin connector, or otherwise prove that they can consume that much. You do realise why it has two 6pin connectors? It's because one is not enough, not because it is likely to draw 225watts.

Also, how do you explain how his power supply is handling his current processor, which is known for being overly power hungry, more so than the second generation Phenoms? Have a look at the two charts on this page for some evidence of that:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/phenom-ii-940,2114-8.html
A Phenom X4 9850 vs a Phenom II X4 940. 135W/93W & 250W/204W. If his power supply can handle what it's doing now, then it will be able to handle the upgrade.

 

[brandondiep]

Yeah my cpu is at 1.4 Volts just to OC to 2.9, its a joke but thats what i get for paying 60 bucks. It also bottlenecks my 460 since min fps is supposed to be 68 (http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1465/3/) while i get low 40s with the same settings. Just wanted to get a cpu that did not bottle neck the gpu. I'll just save up and get a 2500k, that should fix my fps drop

 

[dalauder]

I understand that 225W was only a theoretical maximum--that's why I used 160W in my addition of wattage.

According to the Anandtech you linked, a single GTX 460 768MB system draws 384W when OC'd under Furmark Loads. Keep in mind an overclocked Phenom II draws 200W instead of the 125W from a stock i7--so add 70W to the 384W and 6 Watts for his extra hard drive, 5 watts for each of two potential USB devices, and we're at 470W to be expected (not overestimated) from an overclocked Phenom II x4 955 setup.

Now if you factor in 20% capacitor aging, you'll need over 550W. Keep in mind that Prime95 or some multitasking while video encoding can use more than Furmark.

And I NEVER said his PSU could handle his current setup. That's why I have a Corsair TX850--so I can overclock and use GTX470's in SLI (which according to your links requires more than 750W).

 

[brandondiep]

Psu is new, so i could return it and use the 60 bucks to upgrade to a 700+ with another 10-20 bucks

 

[brandondiep]

http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3276573&CatId=1483 sounds good?

 

[dalauder]

I wouldn't get a PSU outside of Corsair, Antec, Seasonic, Silverstone, & XFX unless it specifically had a shiny johnnyguru review. Some more expensive brands like FSP and PC Power & Cooling are great too--but outside my price range.

Maybe this one: http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371026&cm_re=antec_750-_-17-371-026-_-Product

But a similar 650W would get the job done for you actually. Silvune's right that I like big power supplies, but he was underestimating requirements.

 

[Silvune]

According to the Anandtech you linked, a single GTX 460 768MB system draws 384W when OC'd under Furmark Loads. Keep in mind an overclocked Phenom II draws 200W instead of the 125W from a stock i7--so add 70W to the 384W and 6 Watts for his extra hard drive, 5 watts for each of two potential USB devices, and we're at 470W to be expected (not overestimated) from an overclocked Phenom II x4 955 setup.

And I NEVER said his PSU could handle his current setup. That's why I have a Corsair TX850--so I can overclock and use GTX470's in SLI (which according to your links requires more than 750W).

I've rechecked my links and I cannot see 384W.

I can see where you are getting 470 watts from, but that's dependant on the 955 drawing 200 watts, which I think is unrealistic. And even if it was realistic it would only happen under the most extreme load which doesn't happen very often in most systems. So I stand by the Corsair VX450 as adequate for the hypothetical system.

Btw, I was checking some reviews of the x4 955, and I don't remember one of those systems showing power consumption over 300 watts either, and some of those systems were using a GTX 280.

I know you never said that, but the VX450 does handle his system, so I'm wondering how that can be possible if your thoughts are correct.

You are also right to have a large power supply for GTX 470 SLI as those are power monsters, unlike the GTX 460.

Anyway, brandondiep, if you are going to return a perfectly good power supply and don't want to change power supplies for a seriously long time, then here is a nice option:
Thermaltake Toughpower XT-775 80Plus Bronze Modular $90
http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=6624663&CatId=106

This one is also decent if you can stand the rebate to make it closer to your price range:
Antec Truepower New TPN-650 80Plus Bronze Modular $100 ($30 rebate, $10 shipping)
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371021

 

[dalauder]

Yeah...I dunno about that 204W for the Phenom II x4, suggested by the Power Calculator. And the 450W can handle his setup if he doesn't max everything out. The 384W was on the overclocked page of the Anandtech review, btw.

My HDD's are raided, so they get maxed out regularly. I encode DVDs, so that taxes the CPU, HDD, & DVD (if I'm burning another at the same time). And I'll play games or watch movies on my computer while doing it. That'll get me pretty high in the usage and IF he did that, he should use more than a 450W.

I used to use a 285W for a GTS 250 w/ my Athlon x2 5000+. It didn't crash--at least not often. But it wasn't a smart idea. I've had PSU's blow out and break components and my friends have too.

What's wrong with the Antec Earthwatts I listed? I haven't really looked it up, but is the Earthwatts series worse than other Antecs? It's 750W for the same price as the 650 you listed. It's 80+, not 80+ Bronze, but I don't think that's worth getting one 100W smaller. Although that's really only useful if he switches to Sandy Bridge/Ivy Bridge and can SLI that GTX 460.

Btw, when you do upgrade Brandoindiep, look at the New Intels or AMD's Bulldozer. It'll be substantially better in almost every way than a Phenom II x2 and, in some ways, cost competitive. Some of them will be out by early March.

 

[brandondiep]

Yeah i have about 250 bucks saved up and my school is ending in april, gonna get a summer job and upgrade with my first paycheck. So i say june-ish and yeah a 2600k or 2500k is really looking good, idk how intel uses less power and better performance lol. The 2500k isnt even that much more than the top phenom 2 x4

 

[Silvune]

Nothing wrong with it, but it is an older design, it has 4 25A 12V rails, but I believe the stated cap for the combined use of all those rails is less than 750W (670 watts), so you could say that it is not really a 750W PSU, but a really good 650W PSU. Also it is soon going to be replaced by an Antec Earthwatts Green EA-750, which probably will be 80Plus Bronze. Altho the jonnyguru review shows that the efficiency isn't that bad and only short of Bronze certification by a small amount at 100% load. The review also shows high ripple and noise.

Mainly I was just pointing out other options, which are based on more modern designs and it turns out have much better ripple and noise results.

The power consumption on Sandy Bridge processors is class leading because they are produced on the 32nm process.