Loki, the best anti fighter ship in the universe ???

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

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VGAP4
International

"Cheap ships, good at boarding (with any ship) and highly resistant against
boarding. No hyperdrive ships.
Nice Tech 1 fighter against ships and other fighters. Have the Loki, the
best anti fighter ship in the universe.
-- Lordfire"

Could you tell me what small weapon and point defense you put on a loki ?

and explain how come it's the best ?

Large weapon sand caster is the thing I found to deal with fighters.

and for point defense Micro missile luncher seem very good.

and also turbo laser, witch are much cheaper and do not need ord.

But I dont see any small weapon, doing any good vs fighters.

Thanks

Lord Lancelot
14 answers Last reply
More about loki anti fighter ship universe
  1. Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

    You do not need the small weapons against fighters. The large amount of
    PD slots will do their job against fighters. The Loki is dirt cheap,
    which makes it a good allrounder, and has a high evasive bonus so
    fighters have a hard time hitting it.


    >
    > "Cheap ships, good at boarding (with any ship) and highly resistant
    against
    > boarding. No hyperdrive ships.
    > Nice Tech 1 fighter against ships and other fighters. Have the Loki,
    the
    > best anti fighter ship in the universe.
    > -- Lordfire"
    >
    > Could you tell me what small weapon and point defense you put on a
    loki ?
    >
    > and explain how come it's the best ?
    >
    > Large weapon sand caster is the thing I found to deal with fighters.
    >
    > and for point defense Micro missile luncher seem very good.
    >
    > and also turbo laser, witch are much cheaper and do not need ord.
    >
    > But I dont see any small weapon, doing any good vs fighters.
    >
    > Thanks
    >
    > Lord Lancelot
  2. Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

    After the changes in PD power depending on hull mass and the no 100%
    sand shield protection, there have been a big change in the usefulness
    of some antifigther ships. The Loki is still a beautiful antifigther
    ship but some ships are better. Now sand casters are a strong weapon
    against figthers; so what you need is a ship with high attack bonus,
    ord capacity, high hull mass with several point defence. If you have a
    ship like this, you can be sure you are going to kill a lot of
    figthers. If you are looking for a efficent ship which will have to
    deal with a lot of figthers, several turns and MUST survive, what you
    need is a ship with great evasive bonus. For example: the nebula class
    cruiser is a better antifigther ship than the loki (to much better).
    If I were playing rebels, I would use the tranquillity. Several sand
    casters and turbo laser. Really hard. And for the Evil Empire, maybe
    there is nothing better than figther type 1.
    Greetings
  3. Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

    A few things to clarify concerning host 193:
    Attack bonus for ships does not matter to hit fighters with the PD
    systems.
    The same is true for the accuracy of the pd systems. It is always a
    hit.
    The attack bonus and accuracy of the fighters do also not matter to hit
    the ship with their weapons, but yes evasive of the ship does count,
    with the result that if the ship has an evasive rating of 100 (or
    above) the hitting probability of the fighter weapons are around 1%.
    And while the Sand shield protection is no longer 100%, so have been
    the Sand Casters been reduced in power.
    And Sand Casters are only good weapons against big wings, against small
    wings they have a much worse performance than any PD allowed to shot at
    fighters - ie. it is not very efficent if you shot about 50 to 60 shots
    on a fighter wing with just 10 fighters to kill it.
    The Movement algorithms of the fighters are somehow improved, with the
    result that wings with weapons with incredible range can manage to kill
    ships from afar, in fact with the right settings (Quick Strike) it will
    seldom travel into PD range (even the range of MMLs)- good example are
    the Stormer fighter (and the bird type 3).
    For The Sand Casters attack rating of the ship does matter (not yet
    tested whether evasive rating of the fighter has an effect on this, but
    I guess it has).


    BTW Their is a bug in the ord usage of the PD systems - interestingly
    216 shots (fired according to the combat report) of the MML did only
    use 208 ord (wrong had to be 216 - probably the ord usage of the last
    MML volley was not taken into consideration).
  4. Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

    Nameless said: "For The Sand Casters attack rating of the ship does
    matter (not yet tested whether evasive rating of the fighter has an
    effect on this, but
    I guess it has). "
    Yes it has.
  5. Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

    > Could you tell me what small weapon and point defense you put on a loki ?

    Depends. Without having ET I would use PL with ET I would use Mesons (if I
    have the money Phasors cause they get +40% accrucay). When I expect then to
    have mayor ship/ship battle or fighting Aczanny Tachions or Streak missles
    or as fed Phasors.

    When going against fighters all slots Flakes or when you have the money TL
    (or have lot of ET). When against ships and fighters I personally would put
    2 Micro sand caster in the first 2 slots. Some say still use only flakes.

    TL is better cause it can hit 3 fighters in one shot. Flake is better cause
    it is much cheaper.
    The Loki is so good, cause it is cheap has good attack/evasive modifiers.
    Fighters will have hard times hitting it and the Loki will have goot times
    hitting the fighters with PD weapons.

    Why are masses of PD good against fighters?
    AFAIK if blast power of PD > fighter armor -> fighter die
    if PD blast power < fighter armor -> 40% chance that the fitgher will die

    So more hits with bad PD will do the same as few hits with good PD. But it
    is cheaper to build lot of ships with bad PD than some with good PD. And
    attack ET is cheap and fighters have not +evasive ET.


    > Large weapon sand caster is the thing I found to deal with fighters.

    Could this be cause the SC is the only weapon that can target fighters? No,
    must be something else :D

    > and for point defense Micro missile luncher seem very good.

    If you have to go against masses of cheap fighters they are not so good.
    They are too expensive and this you will not have enough to kill the
    fighters in time.

    Greetings
    Sebastian

    > and also turbo laser, witch are much cheaper and do not need ord.


    > But I dont see any small weapon, doing any good vs fighters.

    Small Weapon cannot target fighters.
  6. Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

    ok thanks

    in resume High Evasive bonus on ship + high amount of PD
    own fighters

    The cheaper the ship, the better.

    Their must be other good cheap ship vs fighters, for other race than Fed /
    Lizard.

    Any suggestion for Empire / Rebel ships vs fighters.

    I know they should use their own fighter as defense, but if I want to have
    good anti fighter ships ?


    "Sebastian" <Sebastian@nospam.nospam> a écrit dans le message de news:
    3dh41oF6qsls3U1@news.dfncis.de...
    >> Could you tell me what small weapon and point defense you put on a loki ?
    >
    > Depends. Without having ET I would use PL with ET I would use Mesons (if I
    > have the money Phasors cause they get +40% accrucay). When I expect then
    > to have mayor ship/ship battle or fighting Aczanny Tachions or Streak
    > missles or as fed Phasors.
    >
    > When going against fighters all slots Flakes or when you have the money TL
    > (or have lot of ET). When against ships and fighters I personally would
    > put 2 Micro sand caster in the first 2 slots. Some say still use only
    > flakes.
    >
    > TL is better cause it can hit 3 fighters in one shot. Flake is better
    > cause it is much cheaper.
    > The Loki is so good, cause it is cheap has good attack/evasive modifiers.
    > Fighters will have hard times hitting it and the Loki will have goot times
    > hitting the fighters with PD weapons.
    >
    > Why are masses of PD good against fighters?
    > AFAIK if blast power of PD > fighter armor -> fighter die
    > if PD blast power < fighter armor -> 40% chance that the fitgher will die
    >
    > So more hits with bad PD will do the same as few hits with good PD. But it
    > is cheaper to build lot of ships with bad PD than some with good PD. And
    > attack ET is cheap and fighters have not +evasive ET.
    >
    >
    >> Large weapon sand caster is the thing I found to deal with fighters.
    >
    > Could this be cause the SC is the only weapon that can target fighters?
    > No, must be something else :D
    >
    >> and for point defense Micro missile luncher seem very good.
    >
    > If you have to go against masses of cheap fighters they are not so good.
    > They are too expensive and this you will not have enough to kill the
    > fighters in time.
    >
    > Greetings
    > Sebastian
    >
    >> and also turbo laser, witch are much cheaper and do not need ord.
    >
    >
    >
    >> But I dont see any small weapon, doing any good vs fighters.
    >
    > Small Weapon cannot target fighters.
    >
    >
    >
  7. Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

    I've always disagreed that the Loki was the best anti-fighter ship
    around. Sure the thing costs bugger all, but you need plenty to take on
    large wings, all of which soaks up Rp's. The best ship that I have
    succeeded with is the Rebel Tranquillity. IT is a fighter destroyer.

    To prove it run a diplomat and see. As fighters use Com type 1's and
    make the wing 1000 strong. Build one tranquillty and arm it with all
    SC's and TL's. Run the battle. The Tran gets down to just under 100
    hull and the fighters are wiped out. Build 6 Loki's (the same cost as
    the tran) and sim them against the same wing. In my sim 4 of the Loki's
    are dead and the other two damaged. There is STill over 600 fighters
    left over!

    I did not play with any ET or any other attack options besides
    selecting SC's attack fighters.

    Anyway, just my opinion.
    Robert.

    Lord Lancelot wrote:
    > ok thanks
    >
    > in resume High Evasive bonus on ship + high amount of PD
    > own fighters
    >
    > The cheaper the ship, the better.
    >
    > Their must be other good cheap ship vs fighters, for other race than
    Fed /
    > Lizard.
    >
    > Any suggestion for Empire / Rebel ships vs fighters.
    >
    > I know they should use their own fighter as defense, but if I want to
    have
    > good anti fighter ships ?
    >
    >
    > "Sebastian" <Sebastian@nospam.nospam> a écrit dans le message de
    news:
    > 3dh41oF6qsls3U1@news.dfncis.de...
    > >> Could you tell me what small weapon and point defense you put on a
    loki ?
    > >
    > > Depends. Without having ET I would use PL with ET I would use
    Mesons (if I
    > > have the money Phasors cause they get +40% accrucay). When I expect
    then
    > > to have mayor ship/ship battle or fighting Aczanny Tachions or
    Streak
    > > missles or as fed Phasors.
    > >
    > > When going against fighters all slots Flakes or when you have the
    money TL
    > > (or have lot of ET). When against ships and fighters I personally
    would
    > > put 2 Micro sand caster in the first 2 slots. Some say still use
    only
    > > flakes.
    > >
    > > TL is better cause it can hit 3 fighters in one shot. Flake is
    better
    > > cause it is much cheaper.
    > > The Loki is so good, cause it is cheap has good attack/evasive
    modifiers.
    > > Fighters will have hard times hitting it and the Loki will have
    goot times
    > > hitting the fighters with PD weapons.
    > >
    > > Why are masses of PD good against fighters?
    > > AFAIK if blast power of PD > fighter armor -> fighter die
    > > if PD blast power < fighter armor -> 40% chance that the fitgher
    will die
    > >
    > > So more hits with bad PD will do the same as few hits with good PD.
    But it
    > > is cheaper to build lot of ships with bad PD than some with good
    PD. And
    > > attack ET is cheap and fighters have not +evasive ET.
    > >
    > >
    > >> Large weapon sand caster is the thing I found to deal with
    fighters.
    > >
    > > Could this be cause the SC is the only weapon that can target
    fighters?
    > > No, must be something else :D
    > >
    > >> and for point defense Micro missile luncher seem very good.
    > >
    > > If you have to go against masses of cheap fighters they are not so
    good.
    > > They are too expensive and this you will not have enough to kill
    the
    > > fighters in time.
    > >
    > > Greetings
    > > Sebastian
    > >
    > >> and also turbo laser, witch are much cheaper and do not need ord.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >> But I dont see any small weapon, doing any good vs fighters.
    > >
    > > Small Weapon cannot target fighters.
    > >
    > >
    > >
  8. Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

    Thanks.

    "Nameless" <unknown_ai@web.de> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:1114884124.315693.320640@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
    > A few things to clarify concerning host 193:
    > Attack bonus for ships does not matter to hit fighters with the PD
    > systems.
    > The same is true for the accuracy of the pd systems. It is always a
    > hit.
    > The attack bonus and accuracy of the fighters do also not matter to hit
    > the ship with their weapons, but yes evasive of the ship does count,
    > with the result that if the ship has an evasive rating of 100 (or
    > above) the hitting probability of the fighter weapons are around 1%.
    > And while the Sand shield protection is no longer 100%, so have been
    > the Sand Casters been reduced in power.
    > And Sand Casters are only good weapons against big wings, against small
    > wings they have a much worse performance than any PD allowed to shot at
    > fighters - ie. it is not very efficent if you shot about 50 to 60 shots
    > on a fighter wing with just 10 fighters to kill it.
    > The Movement algorithms of the fighters are somehow improved, with the
    > result that wings with weapons with incredible range can manage to kill
    > ships from afar, in fact with the right settings (Quick Strike) it will
    > seldom travel into PD range (even the range of MMLs)- good example are
    > the Stormer fighter (and the bird type 3).
    > For The Sand Casters attack rating of the ship does matter (not yet
    > tested whether evasive rating of the fighter has an effect on this, but
    > I guess it has).
    >
    >
    > BTW Their is a bug in the ord usage of the PD systems - interestingly
    > 216 shots (fired according to the combat report) of the MML did only
    > use 208 ord (wrong had to be 216 - probably the ord usage of the last
    > MML volley was not taken into consideration).
    >
  9. Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

    Sebastian wrote:
    >>A few things to clarify concerning host 193:
    >> Attack bonus for ships does not matter to hit fighters with the PD
    >> systems.
    >> The same is true for the accuracy of the pd systems. It is always a
    >> hit.
    >> The attack bonus and accuracy of the fighters do also not matter to
    hit
    >> the ship with their weapons, but yes evasive of the ship does count,
    >> with the result that if the ship has an evasive rating of 100 (or
    >> above) the hitting probability of the fighter weapons are around 1%.

    >This seems to be wrong. Simmed a battle 10 Aczanny owned Sparrow
    scouts with
    >TL and a fed T3 3000 wing. The fed wing hit the Sparrows about 10 to
    12% of
    >the time (but have not calculated the exact numbers).

    Do you really think that I recall everything correctly from memory, but
    there is a
    difference in hitting probability (eventhough we might think of
    renaming probability)
    with different evasive ratings. And yes the 1 % was an exaggeration,
    the former posts concerning
    this were just not noticed.

    >> And while the Sand shield protection is no longer 100%, so have been
    >> the Sand Casters been reduced in power.

    >Nice to know. Haven´t read that in Host changes. But its true:)

    Oh but the SC is the only weapon able to shot down higher type fighters
    while the lower types are still
    in the wing.

    >> And Sand Casters are only good weapons against big wings, against
    small
    >> wings they have a much worse performance than any PD allowed to shot
    at
    >> fighters - ie. it is not very efficent if you shot about 50 to 60
    shots
    >> on a fighter wing with just 10 fighters to kill it.
    >> The Movement algorithms of the fighters are somehow improved, with
    the
    >> result that wings with weapons with incredible range can manage to
    kill
    >> ships from afar, in fact with the right settings (Quick Strike) it
    will
    >> seldom travel into PD range (even the range of MMLs)- good example
    are
    >> the Stormer fighter (and the bird type 3).

    >Not always true.

    Well now we could discuss the meaning of can and seldom...


    > A single Aczanny owned Phaeton (10 TL + 4 SC) with +100
    >Shield ET will kill a Stomer T3 wing with 500 fighters with sand
    shilds.

    Have you also tried the type-2 and used different secondary attack
    settings.
    And with some attack settings you can get better results without HG on
    board.
    And maybe you care to turn of the Sand Shield exotics - oh and then
    somethings depend on
    the starting position of the wing and ship.
    (In my small test with a Pheaton and + 10 Shield ET and TLs and SCs
    against a Stormer type-3 wing with 500 fighter around a planet and with
    quick strike enabled did not loose a single fighter).

    >But interesting is (without any exotics): In my sims a Phaeton without
    TL
    >but with SC will get destroyed before it fires a shot. Same with a
    Phaeton
    >without SC but with TL. But a Phaeton with SC and TL will destroy the
    wing.
    >Different only with sand shields. Phaeton will only fire SC not TL
    (both
    >present on the ship). Without TL or without SC the Phaeton will not
    fire a
    >shot befre it is destroyed.

    Now we should again consider the attack settings of the wing.
    And it has nothing to do with the SCs and TLs, but with some other
    weird behaviour of
    the wings, in some cases it will follow its orders perfectly and does
    not venture into the range of
    the enemy ship, in that cases the ship would never have the chance to
    fire on the wing with anything,
    since the range of the wings weapons are longer. And the orders of the
    wings seem to sometimes
    improve with more enemy ships available. It might have something to do
    with Tim
    giving ships against wings with a too big weapon range the chance to
    get shot down - eventhough it would be better to review all fighter
    stats and make a few changes to some of them.
    And you should try the fight with more Pheatons.

    >Has anyone a key to this?

    > Combat logic should be the same?

    Nope.But we can discuss whether the Pheaton should have (and has) any
    influence
    on the behaviour of the wing. The sand shield et probably has (and not
    necessarily for the better).


    > Or is this a
    >mistace or getting always the same battle with same input?

    Oh for many things you will get exactly the same output with the same
    input,
    no randomness at all in many cases (regardless of amount of objects, I
    had vcrs with over one hundred wings present
    all doing time and time again the same)).
    In vcrs where nothing gets shoot down or the number of fighters of a
    wing does not get significantly reduced, the
    follow up vcrs of the same turn will also give the same results.


    >Can anyone
    >confirm these results?

    >> For The Sand Casters attack rating of the ship does matter (not yet
    >> tested whether evasive rating of the fighter has an effect on this,
    but
    >> I guess it has).

    >I do not see any increase of hit chances of this when using Attack
    exotics.

    Well there is a difference between attack exotics and attack rating,
    test with different ships (with different attack ratings) and against
    different type of wings
    and you should also consider that their might be a max hitting
    percentage which is below
    100% for SCs regardless of any boni.
    And also use more than one wing,but many small wings and look how the
    statistics looked.


    >When I haven´t viewed the same battle over and over again (which
    should not
    >be the thing cause there was a Diplomat fix to prevent this). I use
    diplomat
    >3.07.

    This has nothing to do with Diplomat.
  10. Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

    >A few things to clarify concerning host 193:
    > Attack bonus for ships does not matter to hit fighters with the PD
    > systems.
    > The same is true for the accuracy of the pd systems. It is always a
    > hit.
    > The attack bonus and accuracy of the fighters do also not matter to hit
    > the ship with their weapons, but yes evasive of the ship does count,
    > with the result that if the ship has an evasive rating of 100 (or
    > above) the hitting probability of the fighter weapons are around 1%.

    This seems to be wrong. Simmed a battle 10 Aczanny owned Sparrow scouts with
    TL and a fed T3 3000 wing. The fed wing hit the Sparrows about 10 to 12% of
    the time (but have not calculated the exact numbers). The Sparrow has a
    evasive rating of about 175. Roughly the same for Aczanny owned Phaeton.
    A fight Stormer T3 against Aczanny owned Phaeton shows only little increased
    hit chances of the wing.

    Used all shield exotics and sand immunety.

    > And while the Sand shield protection is no longer 100%, so have been
    > the Sand Casters been reduced in power.

    Nice to know. Haven´t read that in Host changes. But its true:)

    > And Sand Casters are only good weapons against big wings, against small
    > wings they have a much worse performance than any PD allowed to shot at
    > fighters - ie. it is not very efficent if you shot about 50 to 60 shots
    > on a fighter wing with just 10 fighters to kill it.
    > The Movement algorithms of the fighters are somehow improved, with the
    > result that wings with weapons with incredible range can manage to kill
    > ships from afar, in fact with the right settings (Quick Strike) it will
    > seldom travel into PD range (even the range of MMLs)- good example are
    > the Stormer fighter (and the bird type 3).

    Not always true. A single Aczanny owned Phaeton (10 TL + 4 SC) with +100
    Shield ET will kill a Stomer T3 wing with 500 fighters with sand shilds.
    But interesting is (without any exotics): In my sims a Phaeton without TL
    but with SC will get destroyed before it fires a shot. Same with a Phaeton
    without SC but with TL. But a Phaeton with SC and TL will destroy the wing.
    Different only with sand shields. Phaeton will only fire SC not TL (both
    present on the ship). Without TL or without SC the Phaeton will not fire a
    shot befre it is destroyed.

    Has anyone a key to this? Combat logic should be the same? Or is this a
    mistace or getting always the same battle with same input? Can anyone
    confirm these results?

    > For The Sand Casters attack rating of the ship does matter (not yet
    > tested whether evasive rating of the fighter has an effect on this, but
    > I guess it has).

    I do not see any increase of hit chances of this when using Attack exotics.

    When I haven´t viewed the same battle over and over again (which should not
    be the thing cause there was a Diplomat fix to prevent this). I use diplomat
    3.07.

    As it seems to me the Phaeton is a extreme good fighter killer. Attack bonus
    seems not to play a great role (Sc has already a high accuracy). Quite good
    should be a Gerfalcon, too, but it´s much more expensive.

    Greetings
    Sebastian
  11. Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

    Well for one thing Tim has removed either the randomize method,
    or he has done something similiar, as it is in one short test I had all
    fighter beams of one volley hit the enemy target (29 to zero misses)...
    And then you can see variation in combat even with about the same
    setup.

    Otherwise make sure that the wings have really the attack settings you
    are giving them. Somehow I doubt that this is the case, if you are
    using diplomat.
    Why because if the Stormer wings have quick strike (the type-3s) they
    are not flying to the enemy in fact very often they are only moving a
    little or away from the enemy ship (while nearly keeping the same
    distance).

    BTW your conclusion is wrong, especially considering that one beam hit
    of the Ahir will damage the hull even with +100 shield ET on (which
    also seems wrong because the one hit did do too much damage 180 shields
    + 80 armor + 24 % hull damage). Or considering that one ship can only
    shoot at one wing at a time.

    And then there is an issue with fighter wings returning fire when they
    are shot at, even with full batteries (after 100 ticks about all
    batteries are full, for Cent wings with only type1 and type 3 that are
    hardly 10 ticks) - the battery power seems to getting reduced to zero,
    without the wing even firing a shoot (and if the wing is in range of
    the TLs the ship is in range for the beam weapons and missles of the
    Ahir).

    Moreover the combat code is still a complete mess and I will not look
    further into it- in fact I will wait 'till another promising host is
    out. The only think that improved is the combat movement of the wings
    (and ships to some extend). But to get the combat really improved
    without any over the top wings or ships, a review of the stats of ships
    and fighters (and some weapons) is necessary.
  12. Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

    Oh, it is same input same output. But nevertheless it is very interesting
    that you can defeat with a 3600MC worth Phaeton a 175 000 MC worth wing. It
    might help seeting the map ID to RANDOM and the Wing ID to RANDOM too to get
    different results. Perhaps try the script at the bottom of this email. Take
    several runs. You will see the Phaeton winning. More than in one situation.

    Problem is: This scripted fights will say nothing about real game dehavoir
    (at least it says nothing about how ofter that specific situation will
    occour). As combat logic seems to be very deterministic it lives from
    different input. That is not given in diplomat fights but in real games.

    BTW: I would be good to set the ID of the planets and wings also to RANDOM.
    And please update the diplomat version in the script. It is shown wrong. I
    use 3.07

    Conclusion to me is: I will not attack a Phaeton nor another high evasion
    ship with fighters. Very bad thing can happen.

    The thing with attack ET not the same as ship attack bonus I´ll try later.

    Greetings
    Sebastian


    '08 (Format)
    'This script file was generated by Diplomat, version 2.5.8 (August 2002)
    Begin Map
    id = RANDOM
    file = "echo.map"
    End

    Begin Races
    Playercount = 4
    'Fed = 101, Stormer = 104, Borg = 106, Peeps = 801 etc:
    Player(1) = 808
    Player(2) = 101
    Player(3) = 802
    Player(4) = 104
    Player(5) = 101
    Player(6) = 102
    Player(7) = 103
    Player(8) = 104
    Player(9) = 105
    Player(10) = 106
    Player(11) = 107
    Player(12) = 108
    Player(13) = 109
    Player(14) = 110
    Player(15) = 111
    Player(16) = 101
    Player(17) = 113
    Player(18) = 801
    Player(19) = 802
    Player(20) = 803
    Player(21) = 804
    Player(22) = 805
    Player(23) = 806
    Player(24) = 807
    Player(25) = 808
    Player(26) = 809
    Player(27) = 810
    Player(28) = 811
    Player(29) = 812
    Player(30) = 813
    End

    Begin Ship
    Hull = 620 'Phaeton Class Destroyer
    ID = RANDOM
    name = "Phaeton Class Destroyer "
    pNum = 1
    x = 2002
    y = 1969
    Eng = 20 'Transwarp Drive
    HypEng = 0 'hyperdrive (0 = none)
    eleN = 500
    eleOrd = 5000
    AttackEnemy = 1
    Armor = 80
    ShieldFlavor = 3 'Crane X80
    HugeWeapon = 0 '0,1,2,3,4,5 = None,SuperLaser,Nemesis,WC,AntiMatterMaul,PMC
    HighGuard = 1
    STANDOFFRANGE = 0
    ATTACKPLAN = 1
    SWITCHWEAPONS = 7
    CREW = 225
    FCODE = ""
    Experience = 1
    LWeapon(1) = 4 ' Sand Caster
    LWeapon(2) = 4 ' Sand Caster
    LWeapon(3) = 4 ' Sand Caster
    LWeapon(4) = 4 ' Sand Caster
    PDWeapon(1) = 7 ' Turbo Laser
    PDWeapon(2) = 7 ' Turbo Laser
    PDWeapon(3) = 7 ' Turbo Laser
    PDWeapon(4) = 7 ' Turbo Laser
    PDWeapon(5) = 7 ' Turbo Laser
    PDWeapon(6) = 7 ' Turbo Laser
    PDWeapon(7) = 7 ' Turbo Laser
    PDWeapon(8) = 7 ' Turbo Laser
    PDWeapon(9) = 7 ' Turbo Laser
    PDWeapon(10) = 7 ' Turbo Laser
    End


    BEGIN WING
    NAME = "Aczanny Wing 0/0/500"
    ID = "RANDOM"
    X = 2002
    Y = 1969
    pNum = 4
    WINGRACE = 4 'it is possible to own another racial type's fighters
    Count(1) = 0
    Count(2) = 0
    Count(3) = 500
    HighGuard = 1
    Fuel = 800
    Ord = 30000
    XHOME = 2000
    YHOME = 2000
    SPEED = 90
    MISSION = 0
    PATROLRANGE = 50
    ATTACKMODE = 1
    FCODE = ""
    End
  13. Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

    Sebastian wrote:
    >> Well for one thing Tim has removed either the randomize method,
    >> or he has done something similiar, as it is in one short test I had
    all
    >> fighter beams of one volley hit the enemy target (29 to zero
    misses)...
    >> And then you can see variation in combat even with about the same
    >> setup.

    >The variation depends on how the script and thus the game is set up.
    You
    >surly remember the diplomat got a fix that changed the scripting of
    IDs of
    >ships.

    Maybe you want to consider who might have posted into the thread which
    resulted in
    the fix (of course I might err on this but then again...).

    >Before it was NOTRANDOM and after it is RANDOM. When Setting the ID
    >in a fixed (means Notrandom) order the result of the combat will be
    the same
    >if you set the same input (mean same order of ships in script file,
    same
    >attack orders for ships etc.)

    Yawn.

    > Because in real game such a very identical
    >situation will not occour it is not a problem in real game.

    Wrong a nearly identical situation can occur in the very same turn with
    the very same
    objects (with maybe one wing having a few less fighter). I had already
    that (and I am sure that I already said that somewhere in this ng).
    And any NOTRANDOM or RANDOM setting will not change anything about
    that.
    It is probably funny to see the same combat 5 times with 5 different
    vcr numbers, but
    with the same objects and results (in fact if you would run a bit to
    bit comparison
    you will only find difference at the positions where the actual numbers
    of ie. one wing
    come into play) and all of them in the very same turn.

    >But you will
    >have problems when scripting this. You can easily test this: script a
    combat
    >and then edit the script to set the ships ID to NOTRANDOM. Then you
    will get
    >the very same combat every time you run host. Then script another ship
    at a
    >different location. Combat behaviour will change, but will be the same
    till
    >the next change of input settings.

    Maybe you have overread that I am not going to make any further tests
    with this host.

    >> Otherwise make sure that the wings have really the attack settings
    you
    >> are giving them. Somehow I doubt that this is the case, if you are
    >> using diplomat.
    >> Why because if the Stormer wings have quick strike (the type-3s)
    they
    >> are not flying to the enemy in fact very often they are only moving
    a
    >> little or away from the enemy ship (while nearly keeping the same
    >> distance).

    >So the script reader in master.exe is buggy.

    Well make acertain by making a rst file, with diplomat, with scripted
    objects (s.t. the right
    objects (wings) survive) and check if all attack settings are correct.

    >Would be a good explanation.
    >Same like a Super Grobi is not attacked when the enemy ship have
    "attack
    >dangerous" on. But only in scripted combat. These things need a fix.
    It is
    >hard to search for bugs in the game when you first have to search if
    the
    >scripting is wrong.

    Oh only one comment, I did script the startup (not the fights),
    so only the objects were scripted, the vcrs were not available before
    turn 2.
    In fact sometimes I did generate the combats in even later turns.

    So strictly spoken I did not script a combat but a whole game.

    >> BTW your conclusion is wrong, especially considering that one beam
    hit
    >> of the Ahir will damage the hull even with +100 shield ET on (which
    >> also seems wrong because the one hit did do too much damage 180
    shields
    >> + 80 armor + 24 % hull damage). Or considering that one ship can
    only
    >> shoot at one wing at a time.

    >You´re right.

    Of course I am.

    > A single Phaeton will not destroy 500 Ahir. But 10 Phaetons
    >will do it. Even with Sand Shields (at least I scripted sand shields).

    Well against them try ie. 50 wings a 10 type-3 stormer fighter (and
    make ascertain that quick strike is enabled for the fighter) -
    to come back to the stormer fighter (and I would not use pure ahir
    wings).
    And again I would not script Sand Shields.
  14. Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

    > Well for one thing Tim has removed either the randomize method,
    > or he has done something similiar, as it is in one short test I had all
    > fighter beams of one volley hit the enemy target (29 to zero misses)...
    > And then you can see variation in combat even with about the same
    > setup.

    The variation depends on how the script and thus the game is set up. You
    surly remember the diplomat got a fix that changed the scripting of IDs of
    ships. Before it was NOTRANDOM and after it is RANDOM. When Setting the ID
    in a fixed (means Notrandom) order the result of the combat will be the same
    if you set the same input (mean same order of ships in script file, same
    attack orders for ships etc.) Because in real game such a very identical
    situation will not occour it is not a problem in real game. But you will
    have problems when scripting this. You can easily test this: script a combat
    and then edit the script to set the ships ID to NOTRANDOM. Then you will get
    the very same combat every time you run host. Then script another ship at a
    different location. Combat behaviour will change, but will be the same till
    the next change of input settings.


    >
    > Otherwise make sure that the wings have really the attack settings you
    > are giving them. Somehow I doubt that this is the case, if you are
    > using diplomat.
    > Why because if the Stormer wings have quick strike (the type-3s) they
    > are not flying to the enemy in fact very often they are only moving a
    > little or away from the enemy ship (while nearly keeping the same
    > distance).

    So the script reader in master.exe is buggy. Would be a good explanation.
    Same like a Super Grobi is not attacked when the enemy ship have "attack
    dangerous" on. But only in scripted combat. These things need a fix. It is
    hard to search for bugs in the game when you first have to search if the
    scripting is wrong.

    >
    > BTW your conclusion is wrong, especially considering that one beam hit
    > of the Ahir will damage the hull even with +100 shield ET on (which
    > also seems wrong because the one hit did do too much damage 180 shields
    > + 80 armor + 24 % hull damage). Or considering that one ship can only
    > shoot at one wing at a time.

    You´re right. A single Phaeton will not destroy 500 Ahir. But 10 Phaetons
    will do it. Even with Sand Shields (at least I scripted sand shields).
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