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Loki, the best anti fighter ship in the universe ???

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Anonymous
April 30, 2005 6:29:40 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

From

VGAP4
International

"Cheap ships, good at boarding (with any ship) and highly resistant against
boarding. No hyperdrive ships.
Nice Tech 1 fighter against ships and other fighters. Have the Loki, the
best anti fighter ship in the universe.
-- Lordfire"

Could you tell me what small weapon and point defense you put on a loki ?

and explain how come it's the best ?

Large weapon sand caster is the thing I found to deal with fighters.

and for point defense Micro missile luncher seem very good.

and also turbo laser, witch are much cheaper and do not need ord.

But I dont see any small weapon, doing any good vs fighters.

Thanks

Lord Lancelot
Anonymous
April 30, 2005 6:29:41 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

You do not need the small weapons against fighters. The large amount of
PD slots will do their job against fighters. The Loki is dirt cheap,
which makes it a good allrounder, and has a high evasive bonus so
fighters have a hard time hitting it.




>
> "Cheap ships, good at boarding (with any ship) and highly resistant
against
> boarding. No hyperdrive ships.
> Nice Tech 1 fighter against ships and other fighters. Have the Loki,
the
> best anti fighter ship in the universe.
> -- Lordfire"
>
> Could you tell me what small weapon and point defense you put on a
loki ?
>
> and explain how come it's the best ?
>
> Large weapon sand caster is the thing I found to deal with fighters.
>
> and for point defense Micro missile luncher seem very good.
>
> and also turbo laser, witch are much cheaper and do not need ord.
>
> But I dont see any small weapon, doing any good vs fighters.
>
> Thanks
>
> Lord Lancelot
April 30, 2005 1:13:23 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

After the changes in PD power depending on hull mass and the no 100%
sand shield protection, there have been a big change in the usefulness
of some antifigther ships. The Loki is still a beautiful antifigther
ship but some ships are better. Now sand casters are a strong weapon
against figthers; so what you need is a ship with high attack bonus,
ord capacity, high hull mass with several point defence. If you have a
ship like this, you can be sure you are going to kill a lot of
figthers. If you are looking for a efficent ship which will have to
deal with a lot of figthers, several turns and MUST survive, what you
need is a ship with great evasive bonus. For example: the nebula class
cruiser is a better antifigther ship than the loki (to much better).
If I were playing rebels, I would use the tranquillity. Several sand
casters and turbo laser. Really hard. And for the Evil Empire, maybe
there is nothing better than figther type 1.
Greetings
April 30, 2005 3:02:04 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

A few things to clarify concerning host 193:
Attack bonus for ships does not matter to hit fighters with the PD
systems.
The same is true for the accuracy of the pd systems. It is always a
hit.
The attack bonus and accuracy of the fighters do also not matter to hit
the ship with their weapons, but yes evasive of the ship does count,
with the result that if the ship has an evasive rating of 100 (or
above) the hitting probability of the fighter weapons are around 1%.
And while the Sand shield protection is no longer 100%, so have been
the Sand Casters been reduced in power.
And Sand Casters are only good weapons against big wings, against small
wings they have a much worse performance than any PD allowed to shot at
fighters - ie. it is not very efficent if you shot about 50 to 60 shots
on a fighter wing with just 10 fighters to kill it.
The Movement algorithms of the fighters are somehow improved, with the
result that wings with weapons with incredible range can manage to kill
ships from afar, in fact with the right settings (Quick Strike) it will
seldom travel into PD range (even the range of MMLs)- good example are
the Stormer fighter (and the bird type 3).
For The Sand Casters attack rating of the ship does matter (not yet
tested whether evasive rating of the fighter has an effect on this, but
I guess it has).


BTW Their is a bug in the ord usage of the PD systems - interestingly
216 shots (fired according to the combat report) of the MML did only
use 208 ord (wrong had to be 216 - probably the ord usage of the last
MML volley was not taken into consideration).
April 30, 2005 3:36:34 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Nameless said: "For The Sand Casters attack rating of the ship does
matter (not yet tested whether evasive rating of the fighter has an
effect on this, but
I guess it has). "
Yes it has.
Anonymous
April 30, 2005 4:12:53 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

> Could you tell me what small weapon and point defense you put on a loki ?

Depends. Without having ET I would use PL with ET I would use Mesons (if I
have the money Phasors cause they get +40% accrucay). When I expect then to
have mayor ship/ship battle or fighting Aczanny Tachions or Streak missles
or as fed Phasors.

When going against fighters all slots Flakes or when you have the money TL
(or have lot of ET). When against ships and fighters I personally would put
2 Micro sand caster in the first 2 slots. Some say still use only flakes.

TL is better cause it can hit 3 fighters in one shot. Flake is better cause
it is much cheaper.
The Loki is so good, cause it is cheap has good attack/evasive modifiers.
Fighters will have hard times hitting it and the Loki will have goot times
hitting the fighters with PD weapons.

Why are masses of PD good against fighters?
AFAIK if blast power of PD > fighter armor -> fighter die
if PD blast power < fighter armor -> 40% chance that the fitgher will die

So more hits with bad PD will do the same as few hits with good PD. But it
is cheaper to build lot of ships with bad PD than some with good PD. And
attack ET is cheap and fighters have not +evasive ET.


> Large weapon sand caster is the thing I found to deal with fighters.

Could this be cause the SC is the only weapon that can target fighters? No,
must be something else :D 

> and for point defense Micro missile luncher seem very good.

If you have to go against masses of cheap fighters they are not so good.
They are too expensive and this you will not have enough to kill the
fighters in time.

Greetings
Sebastian

> and also turbo laser, witch are much cheaper and do not need ord.



> But I dont see any small weapon, doing any good vs fighters.

Small Weapon cannot target fighters.
Anonymous
April 30, 2005 4:12:54 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

ok thanks

in resume High Evasive bonus on ship + high amount of PD
own fighters

The cheaper the ship, the better.

Their must be other good cheap ship vs fighters, for other race than Fed /
Lizard.

Any suggestion for Empire / Rebel ships vs fighters.

I know they should use their own fighter as defense, but if I want to have
good anti fighter ships ?


"Sebastian" <Sebastian@nospam.nospam> a écrit dans le message de news:
3dh41oF6qsls3U1@news.dfncis.de...
>> Could you tell me what small weapon and point defense you put on a loki ?
>
> Depends. Without having ET I would use PL with ET I would use Mesons (if I
> have the money Phasors cause they get +40% accrucay). When I expect then
> to have mayor ship/ship battle or fighting Aczanny Tachions or Streak
> missles or as fed Phasors.
>
> When going against fighters all slots Flakes or when you have the money TL
> (or have lot of ET). When against ships and fighters I personally would
> put 2 Micro sand caster in the first 2 slots. Some say still use only
> flakes.
>
> TL is better cause it can hit 3 fighters in one shot. Flake is better
> cause it is much cheaper.
> The Loki is so good, cause it is cheap has good attack/evasive modifiers.
> Fighters will have hard times hitting it and the Loki will have goot times
> hitting the fighters with PD weapons.
>
> Why are masses of PD good against fighters?
> AFAIK if blast power of PD > fighter armor -> fighter die
> if PD blast power < fighter armor -> 40% chance that the fitgher will die
>
> So more hits with bad PD will do the same as few hits with good PD. But it
> is cheaper to build lot of ships with bad PD than some with good PD. And
> attack ET is cheap and fighters have not +evasive ET.
>
>
>> Large weapon sand caster is the thing I found to deal with fighters.
>
> Could this be cause the SC is the only weapon that can target fighters?
> No, must be something else :D 
>
>> and for point defense Micro missile luncher seem very good.
>
> If you have to go against masses of cheap fighters they are not so good.
> They are too expensive and this you will not have enough to kill the
> fighters in time.
>
> Greetings
> Sebastian
>
>> and also turbo laser, witch are much cheaper and do not need ord.
>
>
>
>> But I dont see any small weapon, doing any good vs fighters.
>
> Small Weapon cannot target fighters.
>
>
>
Anonymous
April 30, 2005 7:51:45 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

I've always disagreed that the Loki was the best anti-fighter ship
around. Sure the thing costs bugger all, but you need plenty to take on
large wings, all of which soaks up Rp's. The best ship that I have
succeeded with is the Rebel Tranquillity. IT is a fighter destroyer.

To prove it run a diplomat and see. As fighters use Com type 1's and
make the wing 1000 strong. Build one tranquillty and arm it with all
SC's and TL's. Run the battle. The Tran gets down to just under 100
hull and the fighters are wiped out. Build 6 Loki's (the same cost as
the tran) and sim them against the same wing. In my sim 4 of the Loki's
are dead and the other two damaged. There is STill over 600 fighters
left over!

I did not play with any ET or any other attack options besides
selecting SC's attack fighters.

Anyway, just my opinion.
Robert.

Lord Lancelot wrote:
> ok thanks
>
> in resume High Evasive bonus on ship + high amount of PD
> own fighters
>
> The cheaper the ship, the better.
>
> Their must be other good cheap ship vs fighters, for other race than
Fed /
> Lizard.
>
> Any suggestion for Empire / Rebel ships vs fighters.
>
> I know they should use their own fighter as defense, but if I want to
have
> good anti fighter ships ?
>
>
> "Sebastian" <Sebastian@nospam.nospam> a écrit dans le message de
news:
> 3dh41oF6qsls3U1@news.dfncis.de...
> >> Could you tell me what small weapon and point defense you put on a
loki ?
> >
> > Depends. Without having ET I would use PL with ET I would use
Mesons (if I
> > have the money Phasors cause they get +40% accrucay). When I expect
then
> > to have mayor ship/ship battle or fighting Aczanny Tachions or
Streak
> > missles or as fed Phasors.
> >
> > When going against fighters all slots Flakes or when you have the
money TL
> > (or have lot of ET). When against ships and fighters I personally
would
> > put 2 Micro sand caster in the first 2 slots. Some say still use
only
> > flakes.
> >
> > TL is better cause it can hit 3 fighters in one shot. Flake is
better
> > cause it is much cheaper.
> > The Loki is so good, cause it is cheap has good attack/evasive
modifiers.
> > Fighters will have hard times hitting it and the Loki will have
goot times
> > hitting the fighters with PD weapons.
> >
> > Why are masses of PD good against fighters?
> > AFAIK if blast power of PD > fighter armor -> fighter die
> > if PD blast power < fighter armor -> 40% chance that the fitgher
will die
> >
> > So more hits with bad PD will do the same as few hits with good PD.
But it
> > is cheaper to build lot of ships with bad PD than some with good
PD. And
> > attack ET is cheap and fighters have not +evasive ET.
> >
> >
> >> Large weapon sand caster is the thing I found to deal with
fighters.
> >
> > Could this be cause the SC is the only weapon that can target
fighters?
> > No, must be something else :D 
> >
> >> and for point defense Micro missile luncher seem very good.
> >
> > If you have to go against masses of cheap fighters they are not so
good.
> > They are too expensive and this you will not have enough to kill
the
> > fighters in time.
> >
> > Greetings
> > Sebastian
> >
> >> and also turbo laser, witch are much cheaper and do not need ord.
> >
> >
> >
> >> But I dont see any small weapon, doing any good vs fighters.
> >
> > Small Weapon cannot target fighters.
> >
> >
> >
Anonymous
May 1, 2005 1:51:40 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Thanks.

"Nameless" <unknown_ai@web.de> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:1114884124.315693.320640@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> A few things to clarify concerning host 193:
> Attack bonus for ships does not matter to hit fighters with the PD
> systems.
> The same is true for the accuracy of the pd systems. It is always a
> hit.
> The attack bonus and accuracy of the fighters do also not matter to hit
> the ship with their weapons, but yes evasive of the ship does count,
> with the result that if the ship has an evasive rating of 100 (or
> above) the hitting probability of the fighter weapons are around 1%.
> And while the Sand shield protection is no longer 100%, so have been
> the Sand Casters been reduced in power.
> And Sand Casters are only good weapons against big wings, against small
> wings they have a much worse performance than any PD allowed to shot at
> fighters - ie. it is not very efficent if you shot about 50 to 60 shots
> on a fighter wing with just 10 fighters to kill it.
> The Movement algorithms of the fighters are somehow improved, with the
> result that wings with weapons with incredible range can manage to kill
> ships from afar, in fact with the right settings (Quick Strike) it will
> seldom travel into PD range (even the range of MMLs)- good example are
> the Stormer fighter (and the bird type 3).
> For The Sand Casters attack rating of the ship does matter (not yet
> tested whether evasive rating of the fighter has an effect on this, but
> I guess it has).
>
>
> BTW Their is a bug in the ord usage of the PD systems - interestingly
> 216 shots (fired according to the combat report) of the MML did only
> use 208 ord (wrong had to be 216 - probably the ord usage of the last
> MML volley was not taken into consideration).
>
May 1, 2005 6:54:00 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Sebastian wrote:
>>A few things to clarify concerning host 193:
>> Attack bonus for ships does not matter to hit fighters with the PD
>> systems.
>> The same is true for the accuracy of the pd systems. It is always a
>> hit.
>> The attack bonus and accuracy of the fighters do also not matter to
hit
>> the ship with their weapons, but yes evasive of the ship does count,
>> with the result that if the ship has an evasive rating of 100 (or
>> above) the hitting probability of the fighter weapons are around 1%.

>This seems to be wrong. Simmed a battle 10 Aczanny owned Sparrow
scouts with
>TL and a fed T3 3000 wing. The fed wing hit the Sparrows about 10 to
12% of
>the time (but have not calculated the exact numbers).

Do you really think that I recall everything correctly from memory, but
there is a
difference in hitting probability (eventhough we might think of
renaming probability)
with different evasive ratings. And yes the 1 % was an exaggeration,
the former posts concerning
this were just not noticed.

>> And while the Sand shield protection is no longer 100%, so have been
>> the Sand Casters been reduced in power.

>Nice to know. Haven´t read that in Host changes. But its true:) 

Oh but the SC is the only weapon able to shot down higher type fighters
while the lower types are still
in the wing.

>> And Sand Casters are only good weapons against big wings, against
small
>> wings they have a much worse performance than any PD allowed to shot
at
>> fighters - ie. it is not very efficent if you shot about 50 to 60
shots
>> on a fighter wing with just 10 fighters to kill it.
>> The Movement algorithms of the fighters are somehow improved, with
the
>> result that wings with weapons with incredible range can manage to
kill
>> ships from afar, in fact with the right settings (Quick Strike) it
will
>> seldom travel into PD range (even the range of MMLs)- good example
are
>> the Stormer fighter (and the bird type 3).

>Not always true.

Well now we could discuss the meaning of can and seldom...


> A single Aczanny owned Phaeton (10 TL + 4 SC) with +100
>Shield ET will kill a Stomer T3 wing with 500 fighters with sand
shilds.

Have you also tried the type-2 and used different secondary attack
settings.
And with some attack settings you can get better results without HG on
board.
And maybe you care to turn of the Sand Shield exotics - oh and then
somethings depend on
the starting position of the wing and ship.
(In my small test with a Pheaton and + 10 Shield ET and TLs and SCs
against a Stormer type-3 wing with 500 fighter around a planet and with
quick strike enabled did not loose a single fighter).

>But interesting is (without any exotics): In my sims a Phaeton without
TL
>but with SC will get destroyed before it fires a shot. Same with a
Phaeton
>without SC but with TL. But a Phaeton with SC and TL will destroy the
wing.
>Different only with sand shields. Phaeton will only fire SC not TL
(both
>present on the ship). Without TL or without SC the Phaeton will not
fire a
>shot befre it is destroyed.

Now we should again consider the attack settings of the wing.
And it has nothing to do with the SCs and TLs, but with some other
weird behaviour of
the wings, in some cases it will follow its orders perfectly and does
not venture into the range of
the enemy ship, in that cases the ship would never have the chance to
fire on the wing with anything,
since the range of the wings weapons are longer. And the orders of the
wings seem to sometimes
improve with more enemy ships available. It might have something to do
with Tim
giving ships against wings with a too big weapon range the chance to
get shot down - eventhough it would be better to review all fighter
stats and make a few changes to some of them.
And you should try the fight with more Pheatons.

>Has anyone a key to this?

> Combat logic should be the same?

Nope.But we can discuss whether the Pheaton should have (and has) any
influence
on the behaviour of the wing. The sand shield et probably has (and not
necessarily for the better).


> Or is this a
>mistace or getting always the same battle with same input?

Oh for many things you will get exactly the same output with the same
input,
no randomness at all in many cases (regardless of amount of objects, I
had vcrs with over one hundred wings present
all doing time and time again the same)).
In vcrs where nothing gets shoot down or the number of fighters of a
wing does not get significantly reduced, the
follow up vcrs of the same turn will also give the same results.


>Can anyone
>confirm these results?

>> For The Sand Casters attack rating of the ship does matter (not yet
>> tested whether evasive rating of the fighter has an effect on this,
but
>> I guess it has).

>I do not see any increase of hit chances of this when using Attack
exotics.

Well there is a difference between attack exotics and attack rating,
test with different ships (with different attack ratings) and against
different type of wings
and you should also consider that their might be a max hitting
percentage which is below
100% for SCs regardless of any boni.
And also use more than one wing,but many small wings and look how the
statistics looked.


>When I haven´t viewed the same battle over and over again (which
should not
>be the thing cause there was a Diplomat fix to prevent this). I use
diplomat
>3.07.

This has nothing to do with Diplomat.
Anonymous
May 2, 2005 1:43:13 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

>A few things to clarify concerning host 193:
> Attack bonus for ships does not matter to hit fighters with the PD
> systems.
> The same is true for the accuracy of the pd systems. It is always a
> hit.
> The attack bonus and accuracy of the fighters do also not matter to hit
> the ship with their weapons, but yes evasive of the ship does count,
> with the result that if the ship has an evasive rating of 100 (or
> above) the hitting probability of the fighter weapons are around 1%.

This seems to be wrong. Simmed a battle 10 Aczanny owned Sparrow scouts with
TL and a fed T3 3000 wing. The fed wing hit the Sparrows about 10 to 12% of
the time (but have not calculated the exact numbers). The Sparrow has a
evasive rating of about 175. Roughly the same for Aczanny owned Phaeton.
A fight Stormer T3 against Aczanny owned Phaeton shows only little increased
hit chances of the wing.

Used all shield exotics and sand immunety.

> And while the Sand shield protection is no longer 100%, so have been
> the Sand Casters been reduced in power.

Nice to know. Haven´t read that in Host changes. But its true:) 

> And Sand Casters are only good weapons against big wings, against small
> wings they have a much worse performance than any PD allowed to shot at
> fighters - ie. it is not very efficent if you shot about 50 to 60 shots
> on a fighter wing with just 10 fighters to kill it.
> The Movement algorithms of the fighters are somehow improved, with the
> result that wings with weapons with incredible range can manage to kill
> ships from afar, in fact with the right settings (Quick Strike) it will
> seldom travel into PD range (even the range of MMLs)- good example are
> the Stormer fighter (and the bird type 3).

Not always true. A single Aczanny owned Phaeton (10 TL + 4 SC) with +100
Shield ET will kill a Stomer T3 wing with 500 fighters with sand shilds.
But interesting is (without any exotics): In my sims a Phaeton without TL
but with SC will get destroyed before it fires a shot. Same with a Phaeton
without SC but with TL. But a Phaeton with SC and TL will destroy the wing.
Different only with sand shields. Phaeton will only fire SC not TL (both
present on the ship). Without TL or without SC the Phaeton will not fire a
shot befre it is destroyed.

Has anyone a key to this? Combat logic should be the same? Or is this a
mistace or getting always the same battle with same input? Can anyone
confirm these results?

> For The Sand Casters attack rating of the ship does matter (not yet
> tested whether evasive rating of the fighter has an effect on this, but
> I guess it has).

I do not see any increase of hit chances of this when using Attack exotics.

When I haven´t viewed the same battle over and over again (which should not
be the thing cause there was a Diplomat fix to prevent this). I use diplomat
3.07.

As it seems to me the Phaeton is a extreme good fighter killer. Attack bonus
seems not to play a great role (Sc has already a high accuracy). Quite good
should be a Gerfalcon, too, but it´s much more expensive.

Greetings
Sebastian
May 3, 2005 11:31:10 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Well for one thing Tim has removed either the randomize method,
or he has done something similiar, as it is in one short test I had all
fighter beams of one volley hit the enemy target (29 to zero misses)...
And then you can see variation in combat even with about the same
setup.

Otherwise make sure that the wings have really the attack settings you
are giving them. Somehow I doubt that this is the case, if you are
using diplomat.
Why because if the Stormer wings have quick strike (the type-3s) they
are not flying to the enemy in fact very often they are only moving a
little or away from the enemy ship (while nearly keeping the same
distance).

BTW your conclusion is wrong, especially considering that one beam hit
of the Ahir will damage the hull even with +100 shield ET on (which
also seems wrong because the one hit did do too much damage 180 shields
+ 80 armor + 24 % hull damage). Or considering that one ship can only
shoot at one wing at a time.

And then there is an issue with fighter wings returning fire when they
are shot at, even with full batteries (after 100 ticks about all
batteries are full, for Cent wings with only type1 and type 3 that are
hardly 10 ticks) - the battery power seems to getting reduced to zero,
without the wing even firing a shoot (and if the wing is in range of
the TLs the ship is in range for the beam weapons and missles of the
Ahir).

Moreover the combat code is still a complete mess and I will not look
further into it- in fact I will wait 'till another promising host is
out. The only think that improved is the combat movement of the wings
(and ships to some extend). But to get the combat really improved
without any over the top wings or ships, a review of the stats of ships
and fighters (and some weapons) is necessary.
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 4:29:54 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Oh, it is same input same output. But nevertheless it is very interesting
that you can defeat with a 3600MC worth Phaeton a 175 000 MC worth wing. It
might help seeting the map ID to RANDOM and the Wing ID to RANDOM too to get
different results. Perhaps try the script at the bottom of this email. Take
several runs. You will see the Phaeton winning. More than in one situation.

Problem is: This scripted fights will say nothing about real game dehavoir
(at least it says nothing about how ofter that specific situation will
occour). As combat logic seems to be very deterministic it lives from
different input. That is not given in diplomat fights but in real games.

BTW: I would be good to set the ID of the planets and wings also to RANDOM.
And please update the diplomat version in the script. It is shown wrong. I
use 3.07

Conclusion to me is: I will not attack a Phaeton nor another high evasion
ship with fighters. Very bad thing can happen.

The thing with attack ET not the same as ship attack bonus I´ll try later.

Greetings
Sebastian


'08 (Format)
'This script file was generated by Diplomat, version 2.5.8 (August 2002)
Begin Map
id = RANDOM
file = "echo.map"
End

Begin Races
Playercount = 4
'Fed = 101, Stormer = 104, Borg = 106, Peeps = 801 etc:
Player(1) = 808
Player(2) = 101
Player(3) = 802
Player(4) = 104
Player(5) = 101
Player(6) = 102
Player(7) = 103
Player(8) = 104
Player(9) = 105
Player(10) = 106
Player(11) = 107
Player(12) = 108
Player(13) = 109
Player(14) = 110
Player(15) = 111
Player(16) = 101
Player(17) = 113
Player(18) = 801
Player(19) = 802
Player(20) = 803
Player(21) = 804
Player(22) = 805
Player(23) = 806
Player(24) = 807
Player(25) = 808
Player(26) = 809
Player(27) = 810
Player(28) = 811
Player(29) = 812
Player(30) = 813
End

Begin Ship
Hull = 620 'Phaeton Class Destroyer
ID = RANDOM
name = "Phaeton Class Destroyer "
pNum = 1
x = 2002
y = 1969
Eng = 20 'Transwarp Drive
HypEng = 0 'hyperdrive (0 = none)
eleN = 500
eleOrd = 5000
AttackEnemy = 1
Armor = 80
ShieldFlavor = 3 'Crane X80
HugeWeapon = 0 '0,1,2,3,4,5 = None,SuperLaser,Nemesis,WC,AntiMatterMaul,PMC
HighGuard = 1
STANDOFFRANGE = 0
ATTACKPLAN = 1
SWITCHWEAPONS = 7
CREW = 225
FCODE = ""
Experience = 1
LWeapon(1) = 4 ' Sand Caster
LWeapon(2) = 4 ' Sand Caster
LWeapon(3) = 4 ' Sand Caster
LWeapon(4) = 4 ' Sand Caster
PDWeapon(1) = 7 ' Turbo Laser
PDWeapon(2) = 7 ' Turbo Laser
PDWeapon(3) = 7 ' Turbo Laser
PDWeapon(4) = 7 ' Turbo Laser
PDWeapon(5) = 7 ' Turbo Laser
PDWeapon(6) = 7 ' Turbo Laser
PDWeapon(7) = 7 ' Turbo Laser
PDWeapon(8) = 7 ' Turbo Laser
PDWeapon(9) = 7 ' Turbo Laser
PDWeapon(10) = 7 ' Turbo Laser
End


BEGIN WING
NAME = "Aczanny Wing 0/0/500"
ID = "RANDOM"
X = 2002
Y = 1969
pNum = 4
WINGRACE = 4 'it is possible to own another racial type's fighters
Count(1) = 0
Count(2) = 0
Count(3) = 500
HighGuard = 1
Fuel = 800
Ord = 30000
XHOME = 2000
YHOME = 2000
SPEED = 90
MISSION = 0
PATROLRANGE = 50
ATTACKMODE = 1
FCODE = ""
End
May 3, 2005 9:50:43 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Sebastian wrote:
>> Well for one thing Tim has removed either the randomize method,
>> or he has done something similiar, as it is in one short test I had
all
>> fighter beams of one volley hit the enemy target (29 to zero
misses)...
>> And then you can see variation in combat even with about the same
>> setup.

>The variation depends on how the script and thus the game is set up.
You
>surly remember the diplomat got a fix that changed the scripting of
IDs of
>ships.

Maybe you want to consider who might have posted into the thread which
resulted in
the fix (of course I might err on this but then again...).

>Before it was NOTRANDOM and after it is RANDOM. When Setting the ID
>in a fixed (means Notrandom) order the result of the combat will be
the same
>if you set the same input (mean same order of ships in script file,
same
>attack orders for ships etc.)

Yawn.

> Because in real game such a very identical
>situation will not occour it is not a problem in real game.

Wrong a nearly identical situation can occur in the very same turn with
the very same
objects (with maybe one wing having a few less fighter). I had already
that (and I am sure that I already said that somewhere in this ng).
And any NOTRANDOM or RANDOM setting will not change anything about
that.
It is probably funny to see the same combat 5 times with 5 different
vcr numbers, but
with the same objects and results (in fact if you would run a bit to
bit comparison
you will only find difference at the positions where the actual numbers
of ie. one wing
come into play) and all of them in the very same turn.

>But you will
>have problems when scripting this. You can easily test this: script a
combat
>and then edit the script to set the ships ID to NOTRANDOM. Then you
will get
>the very same combat every time you run host. Then script another ship
at a
>different location. Combat behaviour will change, but will be the same
till
>the next change of input settings.

Maybe you have overread that I am not going to make any further tests
with this host.

>> Otherwise make sure that the wings have really the attack settings
you
>> are giving them. Somehow I doubt that this is the case, if you are
>> using diplomat.
>> Why because if the Stormer wings have quick strike (the type-3s)
they
>> are not flying to the enemy in fact very often they are only moving
a
>> little or away from the enemy ship (while nearly keeping the same
>> distance).

>So the script reader in master.exe is buggy.

Well make acertain by making a rst file, with diplomat, with scripted
objects (s.t. the right
objects (wings) survive) and check if all attack settings are correct.

>Would be a good explanation.
>Same like a Super Grobi is not attacked when the enemy ship have
"attack
>dangerous" on. But only in scripted combat. These things need a fix.
It is
>hard to search for bugs in the game when you first have to search if
the
>scripting is wrong.

Oh only one comment, I did script the startup (not the fights),
so only the objects were scripted, the vcrs were not available before
turn 2.
In fact sometimes I did generate the combats in even later turns.

So strictly spoken I did not script a combat but a whole game.

>> BTW your conclusion is wrong, especially considering that one beam
hit
>> of the Ahir will damage the hull even with +100 shield ET on (which
>> also seems wrong because the one hit did do too much damage 180
shields
>> + 80 armor + 24 % hull damage). Or considering that one ship can
only
>> shoot at one wing at a time.

>You´re right.

Of course I am.

> A single Phaeton will not destroy 500 Ahir. But 10 Phaetons
>will do it. Even with Sand Shields (at least I scripted sand shields).

Well against them try ie. 50 wings a 10 type-3 stormer fighter (and
make ascertain that quick strike is enabled for the fighter) -
to come back to the stormer fighter (and I would not use pure ahir
wings).
And again I would not script Sand Shields.
Anonymous
May 4, 2005 2:03:07 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

> Well for one thing Tim has removed either the randomize method,
> or he has done something similiar, as it is in one short test I had all
> fighter beams of one volley hit the enemy target (29 to zero misses)...
> And then you can see variation in combat even with about the same
> setup.

The variation depends on how the script and thus the game is set up. You
surly remember the diplomat got a fix that changed the scripting of IDs of
ships. Before it was NOTRANDOM and after it is RANDOM. When Setting the ID
in a fixed (means Notrandom) order the result of the combat will be the same
if you set the same input (mean same order of ships in script file, same
attack orders for ships etc.) Because in real game such a very identical
situation will not occour it is not a problem in real game. But you will
have problems when scripting this. You can easily test this: script a combat
and then edit the script to set the ships ID to NOTRANDOM. Then you will get
the very same combat every time you run host. Then script another ship at a
different location. Combat behaviour will change, but will be the same till
the next change of input settings.


>
> Otherwise make sure that the wings have really the attack settings you
> are giving them. Somehow I doubt that this is the case, if you are
> using diplomat.
> Why because if the Stormer wings have quick strike (the type-3s) they
> are not flying to the enemy in fact very often they are only moving a
> little or away from the enemy ship (while nearly keeping the same
> distance).

So the script reader in master.exe is buggy. Would be a good explanation.
Same like a Super Grobi is not attacked when the enemy ship have "attack
dangerous" on. But only in scripted combat. These things need a fix. It is
hard to search for bugs in the game when you first have to search if the
scripting is wrong.

>
> BTW your conclusion is wrong, especially considering that one beam hit
> of the Ahir will damage the hull even with +100 shield ET on (which
> also seems wrong because the one hit did do too much damage 180 shields
> + 80 armor + 24 % hull damage). Or considering that one ship can only
> shoot at one wing at a time.

You´re right. A single Phaeton will not destroy 500 Ahir. But 10 Phaetons
will do it. Even with Sand Shields (at least I scripted sand shields).
!