Second computer as a monitor/GPU (minicluster)

[dragonorb13]

OK, here's my situation: I have this awesome computer, which is actually a server. Come to find out, IBM's policy on testing there hardware only extends to stuff they and their daughter companies make. So, they've not tested any video cards on their server systems. Ever. My choices are as follows:
1) I can continue to search for a PCI card that works with this thing, and pray.
2) I can buy a new riser for about the same price as I paid for the server in the first place, assuming I'm willing to buy it refurbished, that has a PCI-e x8 slot in on it instead of a PCI-x, and, again, search and pray for a vid card that works.
3) Find a way to force the system to accept anything I want by finding a way to either a) use a second computer (laptop I already have, cheap tower from the local seedy computer repair store, etc) as a monitor and graphics engine or b) allocate all of the resources of the server unit to a second computer, including it's ram and processors (8g ram and twin dual-core 3.0 processors).

I'm starting to think that the third option might be the better one of the three, so if anyone has any information on how it can be done, I'd be greatly appreciative. Yes i realize that either one of the options in 3 would require a cluster of some kind more than likely.
The only limitations are as follows: I'm not a good programmer, so I'd need reference to a good walk through, or at least the programs. I don't own Windows Server (if that's even an option) so I'd need referenced to a place that has it cheep/free. I'd much prefer to use either Windows XP or Linux (Linux is the second choice, but more than willing if it's substantially easier) free distribution such as Ubuntu.

Thanks to anyone that comes up with something!
~Zarius

 

[Richard_nixon]

Sell those parts locally or on ebay?
Buy somthing useful?
Even getting somthing put together that works half decent, is it going to be worth it when you could have spent a few hundred dollars and gotten somthing that has twice the framerate?

 

[dragonorb13]

1) No.
2) I did buy something useful, it just isn't useful yet.
3) Even before I bought the server, my budget wasn't 'a few hundred dollars'

 

[suteck]

Are you talking about wanting to put your parts on a new motherboard that has a pcieX16 slot on it, then add a good graphics card to that for high def/quality video? You can probably do that. Or are you searching for a video card that is compatible for PCI slots? If you want to try switching out the motherboard we will need to know what EXACTLY are the processors' brand and model #'s. We can match compatible motherboards to those numbers. We might can even get enough information from IBM if the servers are commercial and have model or serial numbers on them like IBM System x3200 M3 Express and can be traced that way. For instance, lots of the newer servers have the intel Xeon processors in them. Like the Intel® Xeon® 3400 Series. If we have information like that then we can probably match them to a motherboard. Like this

Intel S3420GPRX LGA1156 Server Motherboard, Intel 3420 Chipset, Supports Xeon Processor 3400 Series, DDR3 1066/1333 SDRAM, SATA RAID, Dual Gigabit Ethernet. ds-dh which has - One PCI Express 2.0 x8 slot. Granted, this is just an example.
Which brings us of course to - how much are you willing to spend on it?? What are you going to do with it and/or do you require the higher end graphics cards or will a simple PCI graphics card work. Do you want a board that will take both processors or will this SUPERMICRO X8SIE ATX Server Board -- Intel Xeon 3400 series LGA 1156 Intel 3420 for $179 with a pcie X16 slot on it work for your needs? Again, just an example. But the processor name, model, socket type, motherboard name, serial number stuff like that will help if you want to try this route. I guess this is option 4. And yes, you will need to get a new operation system if you change out the motherboard. Like HERE for $45.
Is this what you might be interested in? Sorry if I'm way off track, just thought I'd give it a try.

 

[suteck]

Sorry for the second post but it won't let me edit my first response to add -
How about something as simple as your first option? This ATI 100-505529 FireMV 2260 Workstation Video Card - 256MB DDR2, PCI, Dual Display Ports, Low Profile for $125.
Or this EVGA 01G-P1-N948-LR GeForce 9400 GT Video Card - 1GB DDR2, PCI (Dual Link) Dual DVI, HDTV, VGA, Low Profile for $90 should work just fine. Any pci interface card should do the trick. Both of these are and they're also from tigerdirect so just in case, they have a return policy. Shouldn't be any need for all that praying, it's a simple hardware match. Isn't it? I would say so. But again, will these suit your purpose? The ati firepro's are made for workstations and servers. Should be a good fit. They have different attributes depending on what you want to do with them. Give them a once over and see which one works better for you.
They won't give you 1080p, just so you know first.

 

[dragonorb13]

As far as option 1/2 go, I bought this thing http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001GENPBK and it's not compatible with my server. Dunno, maybe PNY's just terrible for compatiblilty issues.
Are Workstation vid cards substantially different from a regular PC vid card, or is it just that the output ports are different? If the card itself is substantially different, you might be onto something there. And in the interim, a friend of mine gave me an idea that just might work.
Thanks, Suteck, for the ideas.

To answer the question, what i bought was a server unit I wanted to convert into a gaming machine. The issue is that it's an IBM Xseries 336, 8 gigs ram, and twin dual-core Xeon processors (hard mounted to the motherboard, not in a quick release rig). I was originally hoping to find a PCI (regular like the ones you showed) video card that is know to work with servers in general. Unfortunately, IBM has a list of exactly zero tested card.
My thought was to circumvent the issue of vid cards not working with the server by basically turning a second computer into a dummy terminal for the server, running the CPU and Ram needs through the server while having the terminal run the video.
Friend of mine told me to just host the games on the server unit using Windows Server 200x on the server, and the PC equivalent Windows software on the terminal. Testing that idea now, and I will update as to the viability of that idea after I get a working copy of WinServ 2003.

 

[4745454b]

I can't figure out exactly which Xeons you're running, but at 800MHz FSB, they would be P4 based yes? If so, I agree that you should sell/return. A 1U server will never make a good gaming machine, and the CPUs are seriously bad. Farther, if you wanted it to be a gaming machine, you shouldn't have tried putting an 8400GS in it. Sell the rig, buy a real gaming machine which means you'll be using a PCIe 16x slot. This is the best option.

 

[WR2]

To answer the question, what i bought was a server unit I wanted to convert into a gaming machine.

What games are you looking at?

 

[dragonorb13]

Ok, numbered guy, NO, NOT 800MHz. TWIN DUAL-CORE 3.0 GHZ that means EACH of four cores is operating at 3.0 ghz.
WR2, mid-low level stuff... Mostly XP era stuff right now, just because i haven't seen anything recent for PC that looked like it was worth spending money on. WoW, DDO, that kinda stuff.

 

[dragonorb13]

oh wait.... front bus speed... never mind. but yeah, dude, most stuff sold today is still 800 mhz fbs, AND I CAN'T AFFORD ANYTHING BETTER. get that through the head. <fake speech impediment> I CAN'T BUY ANYTHING BETTER BECAUSE I AM POOR </fake speech impediment> Mentioned that earlier when Nixon suggested buying better stuff.
Now that we've got my budget out of the way, does anyone either know of a video card that's known to work with rack mount servers in general (doesn't matter what brand of them) or have any advice on how to have one computer siphon the ram and CPU resources off another while still using it's own video card?

 

[4745454b]

The point I was trying to make is that you bought the wrong thing. A cheap/low end 2180 C2D with a 9500GT a 2GBs of ram would beat the snot out of that twin P4 with an 8400GS. It seriously wouldn't even be close. You have the $$$, you need to unload that server. I see them online for $600ish, sell yours for $450 and buy the parts for a low end gaming unit. Heck, you could be lowend new parts for $450 and have a better gaming system. Sell the server, even if you could find a straight PCI card to go in there, it will be junk against even the lowest of the low end PCIe cards. You'll never get a good gaming system out of that server.

 

[dragonorb13]

Yeah, well, unfortunately, since this particular server goes for about $200, not $450, I see a problem. Plus, don't have the $150 to make up the difference. Thus the reason for getting the server in the first place. Hence asking about miniaturized clusters and vid cards known to work in server units. So, enough of trying to con me into buying a new )*&$#$% system and stay on topic.

 

[WR2]

As far as I know, no version of windows OS (with the possible exception of Server 2008 R2) has the ability to do what you want.
There are versions of Unix/Linux that might work, but that's a serious limitation to gaming.

 

[4745454b]

Yeah, the delays as it goes from machine to machine won't allow gaming. Crunching numbers is one thing, trying to hit someone's head while its in your scope is another.

Sorry, I can't stay on the topic you want, so I'm out. I hope you get your gaming rig at some point.

 

[englandr753]

Apologize to 4745454b and I will make my suggestion. He was only being helpful if you would only have listened.

You can come here for help and most of these fine folks here will help you IF you show some respect. Apologize to him and not only will I give my suggestion, others here will do the same and end your confusion...

 

[4745454b]

Two CPUs or two cores, its the same to the game/OS. What isn't possible is using the CPUs in one machine and the video from another. At least as far as I've seen.

 

[dragonorb13]

OK, as it turns out, I found one distinct possibility, though I haven't finished playing around with it yet. I hate trying to work with Server OSes. But, apparently, according to two network techs I know, using the server as an actual server (specifically as an application server) should do what I'm trying to get done.

 

[someone19]

No it won't. I've done what your looking to do using linux. Its slow, and barely able to work a webbrowser, let alone a game.

not possible.

Now, if you want to use the server to be the host for a lan party, you've got possibilities, but not to actually play the game

You bought yerself a boat anchor.

 

[dragonorb13]

Possible you're right, but since I'm too lazy to give up until my brain explodes of it's own accord out of my ears... At least be nice enough to tell me HOW you did it, rather than just saying 'you can't do it'. I appreciate the head's up that YOU couldn't get it to work, but if you did it... HOW DID YOU DO IT?!?!?!

 

[suteck]

It could be an IRQ conflict. If you still have it put your PNY GeForce 8400 GS and try some of these - The best way to get new irq's assigned to hardware is to move the cards from one slot to another. To prevent your video card from sharing an irq you should leave the slot immediatly after another slot open.

Do you use USB devices? If not you can often tell your BIOS not to assign an IRQ to USB.

Does your system have a VIA chipset? Insure you have the latest 4in1 patch, (TRY THESE), if so. One of the patches there takes care of irq routing issues and yet another addresses AGP functionality.

One other thing I have found that helps with irq routing problems is to change where windows gets the route table from. In the device manager under PCI bus properties there is a table to specify where windows gets the routing information from. Try unchecking MS specification table and check direct from hardware. I do not believe you can change this in XP. Probably not win2k either.

 

[someone19]

Possible you're right, but since I'm too lazy to give up until my brain explodes of it's own accord out of my ears... At least be nice enough to tell me HOW you did it, rather than just saying 'you can't do it'. I appreciate the head's up that YOU couldn't get it to work, but if you did it... HOW DID YOU DO IT?!?!?!

I used Xserver and configured an old laptop as a thin client. The bottleneck you'll find is network latency, the time it takes to take the graphics, convert them to bitmap, send them through the network to the client pc, then display them. Yes, _I_ couldn't get it to work because its not possible and not designed to do it. I'm not the only one saying it either. Keep working at it, I'm sure eventually your forehead will make a hole in that wall.

 

[dragonorb13]

I used Xserver and configured an old laptop as a thin client. The bottleneck you'll find is network latency, the time it takes to take the graphics, convert them to bitmap, send them through the network to the client pc, then display them. Yes, _I_ couldn't get it to work because its not possible and not designed to do it. I'm not the only one saying it either. Keep working at it, I'm sure eventually your forehead will make a hole in that wall.

Alright, then. Now that I know how you were doing it, let me ask you a couple questions, if you happen to have the answers:
1) What were the specs on the server you used?
2) What were the specs on the laptop you used?
3) what was your network connection speed?

 

[someone19]

P4 3.2ghz 3gb ram for the server, never above 15% CPU when using non-cpu intensive applications.
Laptop is a 2ghz centrino 4ghz running win7 and nomachine's client to connect via XDMC.
I'm running gigabit ethernet wired lan.

The best performance I got was using the nomachine server and client, but that still wasn't enough to even surf webpages. I've been clustering machines for 10 years, I had a Beowuf cluster of 10 386's running RH linux 4 back in 1995.

If you could use PC's in the way you propose, why build a new computer? Just hook it up with another cheaper unit and now you have your next great gaming computer! The network protocols and subsystems don't support 3d, or opengl, directx, etc. I say again, for your purpose, sell the boat anchor and get a gaming computer.

 

[WR2]

The nice thing about being new to the concept is that I have no bloody clue what's possible and what's not.

You might have a clue or two already. Otherwise you'd have been off gaming a week ago.
You've been given straight answers.
But as you pointed out it doesn't hurt for you to keep trying.

 

[dragonorb13]

You're right, WR2, he did give me a clue. He specifically stated that his attempt to use a laptop as a thin-client (no explanation on how, precisely, he did that) with a server failed miserably. So that gives the hint at an attempt at a really dumbed down version of a client-server system. I do see one issue with the whole thing, and that's that, if he used the same type of thin-client protocols that Walmart's thin clients use, then it's only even programed to allow the absolute basic data flow, has no real capacity for utilizing video drivers, and is basically the Pong of Windows XP... no brains. If he means that he was simply using it as a workstation, then who knows? I only know about the thin clients at Walmart because because I used to work on remodels as a network tech, and I had to know at least enough to diagnose what the store employees broke while I was on site.

The only 'straight answers' I got were about the hardware specs on the server and the laptop he used. As to a straight answer about the original topic (that of clustering) he provided nothing on it, despite his claim he's been using a small scale Beowulf cluster for about a decade; (also, that of using it as some type of client-server system) he provided no information beyond a skim-over of what he tried, and failed, to do.

As to the 'impossibility' of it, here's several issues with it: 1) I've seen precisely what I'm trying to do done. The host of a lan party I attended had a system set up with a server (tower style, but I wouldn't think that shape of the server would make a difference) was where I got the original idea, and before anyone says 'well, call him up'... I have no means of contacting him. 2) Several online games are designed to do EXACTLY this, such as Dungeons and Dragons online and World of Warcraft. Guild Wars, everything but character data is operated client side. So that right there blows the 'impossible' factor to smithereens. 3) Nothing is impossible. It might be impractical for anyone with a budget to do (hence, by the way, the reason most people don't ever bother with it and just buy a new system). It might be an unattractive prospect that will take me days to set up correctly. Heck, it might even be mildly insane to even bother with it. But seeing as I'm poor, mildly insane, moderately patient, and extremely impractical I don't see a problem with any of those issues.

I'm not asking if it's possible or not. I know for a fact that it IS possible, if you set it up right. I'm asking HOW to do it. If you think it's impossible, great... I don't mind a little warning 'hey, I couldn't get it to work, but here's what I did." But just saying "It's impossible" is asinine. Please? Can someone actually give me an answer? Client-server system, acceptable. Don't know how to do it, but it's a possibility. Cluster was the first thought, but as I said, might be a bit of a pain in the rear and might be impractical. Great, I love impractical ideas. Just need to know at least the basics of *how to do it*. Some other weird, random and bizarre idea that even only might work? Awsomesauce. I love weird, random and bizarre.

The only thing I ask is no idiocy about it NOT being possible. I'm GOING to make this work. Period. Don't try to dissuade me, dissuasion only makes me annoyed and more determined.