Question about a battle i had this turn

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Hello everybody!


I invaded an enemy homeworld together with my ally (solorian + rebel against
another solorian)! The battle starts funny and ended WEIRD!

So could anyone explain it?

Here we go: Me (Solorians) send in 2x Nexus (LTLAs, LTLs, Ionic Gun Arrays,
Anti Matter Maul), 15x Pulsars (12xPTTs/Blaster/Sandcaster,
3xPPCs/Blaster/Sandcaster), each Pulsar has 6 fully Fighterwings docked
(4500 Fighters overall), Rebels send in 4x Tranquility, 1x Patriot, 2x
Guardians, 4 Fighterwings different equipped!

Enemy Solorians has about 26 Mio Colonists, 1,2 Mio troops, about 15 small
wings (9/0/1) in orbit and about 4 wings starting from base (about 1100
mostly T2), 1x Eclipse, 1x Solar Array, 1x M2 Flare, 1x Solar Wind, 1x
Corona!

Our ships came in second wave! Fighters were set to Ground Attack OFF!

Battle started: Massivly Fighting! About tick 250, all enemy ships/wings
have been destroyed!
Tick 300: Fleet arrives (Attack Vector 2 for all ships)
Tick 330-350 Both Nexus Fired their Anti Matter Maul into base (on has set
Kill to base other Kill to Eclipse)
Afterwards the Fleet moved slowly into the middle, Fighterwings moved out
forming a ring far away! Soon after Ships came into base range and start
fireing! They moved over the base and moved on the other side out of range!
At about tick 1000 fleet was out of range!
Next ticks no more fighting!
Tick 1400 - 1430: Both Nexus fired Anti Matter Maul second time into base
Tick 1500 - 1800: Most solorians/rebel ships leaves the battle!
Tick 2000 - 4700: 2 Pulsars, 4 Tranquilitys and 1 Patriot left, All
Tranquilites moved in to start a second firering round, Patriots leaves
short after, Pulsars stay but didn't fight (was set to Avoid Ground base as
of mostly Sandcasters to kill FighterWings)
Tick 4740: Battle ends!
Enemy Solorian has still 19 Mio Colonists, 270 Cities, some AAA Guns, some
farms, some factories, 20 public Spaceports

So could PLEASE anyone explain what happend?

Why did my ships leaved the battle so early (they have had at least 2000
Ordnance left, Both Nexus has mostly energy weapons, all my ships have had
enough energy power (engines+generators) to fire weapons each second!

And additional question:

If these HUGE fleet with Superweapons couldn't destroy a lonely base in ONE
turn, what will i need to kill the enemy solorian bases a little bit faster?
I mean he has over 150 Bases, at least about 30 with over 1 Mio Colonists!

Anyone an idea what have happened?

Thx in advance!

Mydgard
23 answers Last reply
More about question battle turn
  1. Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

    Precise description. Since most of your ships seem to have been set to
    'avoid base - off' and 'attack ground targets - on' (recheck that),
    there's only one answer: sent the rst to Tim with an explanation. He
    needs to see such battles to recalibrate the VCR. If he expresses an
    interest, ask host (or the site admin) to send the yig and trn files,
    too.
  2. Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

    I would consider it a bug (under current vcr rules) if close to point
    blank would have been enabled - it was not.
  3. Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

    Is it possible that ground chunnel still worked after the corona was
    destroyed, and he chunneled that base in on top of the other one?
  4. Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

    I can not explain.
    But I had a similar situation.
    With a UEA drednaught loaded with blaster cannon.
    It bombarded the base below for 5 turns.
    Then I ground assaulted and captured the base on the 6th turn.
    My ship had and still has plenty of ord.

    Each turn I did only about 5% damage to the base.
    By turn 6 the base was reduced about 50% below
    where it started on turn 1.

    With this current preformance the only way to kill
    bases in a timely manner is with a super laser.
    Use it to kill the planet. Oh but that does not work on the
    Solorian or Privs. So good luck.
  5. Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

    Ok,

    good point, will send my rst to Tim Wissman ...

    And yes all ships has set avoid base off and attack ground targets on (the
    two left pulsars at the end of battle has avoid base yes and attack ground
    base no)

    Mydgard

    "Lord Owl" <lord.owl@gmx.de> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
    news:1115383045.323461.295130@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
    > Precise description. Since most of your ships seem to have been set to
    > 'avoid base - off' and 'attack ground targets - on' (recheck that),
    > there's only one answer: sent the rst to Tim with an explanation. He
    > needs to see such battles to recalibrate the VCR. If he expresses an
    > interest, ask host (or the site admin) to send the yig and trn files,
    > too.
    >
  6. Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

    There is no close to point blank for ships, only for fighterwings!?

    Mydgard

    "Nameless" <unknown_ai@web.de> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
    news:1115385128.217144.268600@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
    >I would consider it a bug (under current vcr rules) if close to point
    > blank would have been enabled - it was not.
    >
  7. Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

    Nameless schrieb:
    > I would consider it a bug (under current vcr rules) if close to point
    > blank would have been enabled - it was not.

    What do you mean with close tp point blank mean ?? Ships have not such a
    switch only wings.

    I have similar problems. I attack the small undefended Outposts of a
    race (most around 1 K colos) and my battles end between combat tick 500
    and 800 only after my ship have shoot 1 round of weapons against the
    Bases and if the come out of range of the Base the combats ends and Base
    are not destroyed only made some damage. (But have only small LWs in my
    ships Disruptors or FBs as I use my small ships for it.)

    Bye-Bye JoSch.
  8. Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

    Normally: No, as ground chunnel is very late, after movement and battle


    <jasonnorthrup@yahoo.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
    news:1115394012.883061.322440@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
    >
    > Is it possible that ground chunnel still worked after the corona was
    > destroyed, and he chunneled that base in on top of the other one?
    >
  9. Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

    Additional question:

    Can anybody plz confirm: AAA Guns needs ordnance to fire?? Because Solorians
    homeworld has still 79 AAA Guns left, but no Ordnance in base and no
    ordnance plant left ... so if they can't shoot i will try to fire with wings
    also!?

    Mydgard
  10. Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

    Mydgard schrieb:
    > Additional question:
    >
    > Can anybody plz confirm: AAA Guns needs ordnance to fire?? Because Solorians
    > homeworld has still 79 AAA Guns left, but no Ordnance in base and no
    > ordnance plant left ... so if they can't shoot i will try to fire with wings
    > also!?
    >
    > Mydgard

    AAs don't use up Ord if there was no change in the last few hosts. But
    it maybe (but not think so) that they need some initial ord on the Base.

    And think Gabor means PTTs and the PPTs are a typo in his post.
    But in the past as I tried PTTs they are not good against Bases and as
    they need Ord (=money) I have not tried it often. From my expierence
    PPC, TLAs and LTAs make more damage but for this they mst make more then
    one attack run against the Base and not like now only one and then stay
    out of range.

    Bye-Bye JoSch.
  11. Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

    I dont see a problem here with the fleet performance in the described
    battle.
    Just how many of the ships you sent in had AVOID BASE set to ON.

    If you wish to blow up a base, you should have this set to off.

    Having avoid base set to on and attack ground, you'd want to have long
    distance weapons mounted and be understanding that the current VCR had
    your ships head into the planet and then sowly circle away. To maximise
    base damage you'd better have all ships AVOID BASE off and attack
    ground on as they dont hang around for that long.

    I just bombarded a solorian base with just under 10 million colonists
    with a lonely Moscow armed with disruptors....it did just fine. Battle
    ended around 4500 time. Leaving 3 million colonists left and 7 cities
    and not much else.
    It did move away to cicle the outside after innitial attack on base but
    at 2000 time moved back to attack the base again. Avoid base was off,
    Attack ground was on.

    Cheers.
  12. Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

    Actually additionally, u might want to sim that battle as the solorian
    gets a free base shiled at the 10 million colonist population so
    without your fighters atacking the base...only weapon to attack with is
    your super weapon...all else will leave???
  13. Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

    nospam wrote:
    > Nameless schrieb:
    > > I would consider it a bug (under current vcr rules) if close to
    point
    > > blank would have been enabled - it was not.
    >
    > What do you mean with close tp point blank mean ?? Ships have not
    such a
    > switch only wings.

    Yep, they do not have, but what switches would you use (without me
    telling you which to use) to simulate the switch close to point
    blank...


    > I have similar problems. I attack the small undefended Outposts of a
    > race (most around 1 K colos) and my battles end between combat tick
    500
    > and 800 only after my ship have shoot 1 round of weapons against the
    > Bases and if the come out of range of the Base the combats ends and
    Base
    > are not destroyed only made some damage.

    I can assure you that the early ending battles have nothing to do with
    a base being involved, this things can happen with all objects, more or
    less regardless of settings - and are features of the new 'improved'
    vcr combat logic.

    > (But have only small LWs in my
    > ships Disruptors or FBs as I use my small ships for it.)
  14. Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

    LeeSMaz wrote:
    > I dont see a problem here with the fleet performance in the described
    > battle.
    > Just how many of the ships you sent in had AVOID BASE set to ON.
    >
    > If you wish to blow up a base, you should have this set to off.
    >
    > Having avoid base set to on and attack ground, you'd want to have
    long
    > distance weapons mounted and be understanding that the current VCR
    had
    > your ships head into the planet and then sowly circle away. To
    maximise
    > base damage you'd better have all ships AVOID BASE off and attack
    > ground on as they dont hang around for that long.
    >

    This is good advice and correct thinking but does not help Mygard
    situation at all. Nor does it help me.

    > I just bombarded a solorian base with just under 10 million colonists
    > with a lonely Moscow armed with disruptors....it did just fine.

    Yes I know it did. But not at all for the reasons you think.
    If the base you attacked had different buildings inside the base,
    Buildings that Mygard and I had to face then your battle result
    would have been far different for you even with the same combat
    settings you listed. Just wait til the Solorian player in your game
    figures this out. Then you will not be able to bombard those bases
    from space any longer. Or I should say you will need 20 times
    the fire power that you are using now to get the same effect.
    The damage done to the base is scalable by the number of special
    buildings and the correct combinations.
    In extreme cases (which are possible) a base can become nearly
    totaly immune to orbit bombardment. But this requires expensive
    building costs by the owner of the base for defense.
    Controling the damage done by orbit bombardment lies with the
    owner of the base, not at all with the player attacking the base.
    Not sure if this is a bug or a loophole. But the defender has
    total control of the outcome of an orbit bombardment.
    Just most of you do not realize that yet.

    Battle
    > ended around 4500 time. Leaving 3 million colonists left and 7 cities
    > and not much else.
    > It did move away to cicle the outside after innitial attack on base
    but
    > at 2000 time moved back to attack the base again. Avoid base was off,
    > Attack ground was on.
    >
    > Cheers.
  15. Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

    Are u indicating that if we build our special race buildings...that
    they get damage from orbit first in preference to population.??
  16. Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

    I do think there is something seriously wrong with the combat versus
    bases. Few turns ago I attacked a CoM base with almost every colonist
    of that race precent (about 6 mio).

    I am playing Enforcers and had a massive fleet armed with weapons which
    should have bonus on base balsting ( anti-matter guns, 500 mm guns and
    balster cannons) and of course several Ranger stations with bunch of
    ionic gun arrays to capture all his ships.

    My ships just attacked once and then circled far from the base and
    battle ended fas too soon. I would have liked to destroy the base
    completely to make lose all his crew so I could nicely jump away with
    his entire fleet. Of course this did not happen and now I'm facing his
    allyes lizards and Aczanny coming to help with big fleets. I think this
    is a little bit frustrating atleast.

    If there is some reason for this behavior please tell. I did not have
    any ships on avoid ground base and all the ships had attack ground
    targets "ON". Also all my ships had do not fire on disabled ON of
    course so does that have something to do with this behavior
  17. Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

    LeeSMaz schrieb:
    > I dont see a problem here with the fleet performance in the described
    > battle.
    > Just how many of the ships you sent in had AVOID BASE set to ON.
    >
    > If you wish to blow up a base, you should have this set to off.
    >
    > Having avoid base set to on and attack ground, you'd want to have long
    > distance weapons mounted and be understanding that the current VCR had
    > your ships head into the planet and then sowly circle away. To maximise
    > base damage you'd better have all ships AVOID BASE off and attack
    > ground on as they dont hang around for that long.
    >
    > I just bombarded a solorian base with just under 10 million colonists
    > with a lonely Moscow armed with disruptors....it did just fine. Battle
    > ended around 4500 time. Leaving 3 million colonists left and 7 cities
    > and not much else.
    > It did move away to cicle the outside after innitial attack on base but
    > at 2000 time moved back to attack the base again. Avoid base was off,
    > Attack ground was on.
    >
    > Cheers.

    Sorry, my ships have this settings (but don't fire on disabled is ON
    too) and some of my ships have Disruptors mounted. All combats ends
    latest around tick 800 and if the quickly end around tick 450. I tried
    it with RCS Everygreens and Willows.

    Bye-Bye JoSch.
  18. Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

    Well, ok, with out a doubt there is something strange in ship combat
    these days.


    But on the other side I just took a ACB with 20 PTTs against a 1M base
    with undercities, raid shelters, 110 anti air guns and 20
    ion cannons. The Cube only had the order attack ground targets and
    destroyed the base at tick 474 between the 5th and 6th circle
    of after passing the center.


    The whole combat ended at tick 800.


    GFM GToeroe

    I like this thread so many people trying to convince
    others that everything is ok.
    Well I agree. No problem at all Tim.
    The longer this lasts the better off I am.
  19. Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

    Well, ok, with out a doubt there is something strange in ship combat these days.

    But on the other side I just took a ACB with 20 PTTs against a 1M base with undercities, raid shelters, 110 anti air guns and 20
    ion cannons. The Cube only had the order attack ground targets and destroyed the base at tick 474 between the 5th and 6th circle
    of after passing the center.

    The whole combat ended at tick 800.

    GFM GToeroe


    "Nosferatu" <tomi.ristimaki@netikka.fi> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:1115645972.536351.235410@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
    > I do think there is something seriously wrong with the combat versus
    > bases. Few turns ago I attacked a CoM base with almost every colonist
    > of that race precent (about 6 mio).
    >
    > I am playing Enforcers and had a massive fleet armed with weapons which
    > should have bonus on base balsting ( anti-matter guns, 500 mm guns and
    > balster cannons) and of course several Ranger stations with bunch of
    > ionic gun arrays to capture all his ships.
    >
    > My ships just attacked once and then circled far from the base and
    > battle ended fas too soon. I would have liked to destroy the base
    > completely to make lose all his crew so I could nicely jump away with
    > his entire fleet. Of course this did not happen and now I'm facing his
    > allyes lizards and Aczanny coming to help with big fleets. I think this
    > is a little bit frustrating atleast.
    >
    > If there is some reason for this behavior please tell. I did not have
    > any ships on avoid ground base and all the ships had attack ground
    > targets "ON". Also all my ships had do not fire on disabled ON of
    > course so does that have something to do with this behavior
    >
  20. Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

    No,no,no

    The current behavior is a "whole mess". I tried to simulate the former battle with Diplomat (while leaving the Rebel ships).
    Result: The battle ended before even the second wave ships entered!

    GFM GToeroe

    "minime-hammer" <Dctr__Evil@hotmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:1115680995.547714.268800@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
    > Well, ok, with out a doubt there is something strange in ship combat
    > these days.
    >
    >
    > But on the other side I just took a ACB with 20 PTTs against a 1M base
    > with undercities, raid shelters, 110 anti air guns and 20
    > ion cannons. The Cube only had the order attack ground targets and
    > destroyed the base at tick 474 between the 5th and 6th circle
    > of after passing the center.
    >
    >
    > The whole combat ended at tick 800.
    >
    >
    > GFM GToeroe
    >
    > I like this thread so many people trying to convince
    > others that everything is ok.
    > Well I agree. No problem at all Tim.
    > The longer this lasts the better off I am.
    >
  21. Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

    I believe we have 2 different problems in this thread.

    I think Mydgard's original complaint in the first post
    was that his ships did not stay in the fight long enough
    to kill the Solorian base. He thinks and rightly so, that
    if the vcr behavior was changed so that his ships would
    have stayed in combat range of the base long enough
    to empty their ord on the base then the base would have
    been destroyed.
    But this assumption of "that would result in the destruction of the
    base" is in error. Even if that vcr code changed the result would not.
    The base would still survive.

    What I am saying is even if the vcr behavior changed to
    allow those ships to drop their entire ord load on the enemy base
    it still would survive if it was designed properly.
    A proper designed base will nullify up to 99% of the incoming
    damage done to the base. This I am beginning to think was
    an intentional design change to the game done by Tim.
    This is part 2 of this thread. In Mydgard situation the base he
    faced nullified about 15% of the incoming damage.
    Did the owner do that by design or by accident and did he realize
    how that happened? Those are questions to ask them.
    Did either Mydgard or his opponent realize what really happened and
    why? Can either capitolize from it? Maybe!!!!
    Time will tell how many people discover Tim's unannounced game
    change. This change might have been done quite a while ago,
    I just found it now, so it might not have been done with host 193.

    It does allow some interesting strategy decissions.
    Like why do you need a defensive fleet?
    (huge advantage for those that realize this before
    their opponent) (why?) (Because I do not need a
    20 times normal size fleet to kill an oponent that
    does not have a proper designed base but he does
    need that to kill me and only if he realizes that,
    should he send a fleet too small I kill him and he
    does not kill me )
    After this is well known then...
    Of course this will lead to the cost comparrison
    of building defenses vs ships to do the same job.
    But then if you no longer need a defensive fleet
    then you can go offensive with the fleet you have.
    Special considerations need to be taken for ground
    assault and or ship devices of certain races that do
    not require destruction of a base to effectively eliminate
    it.

    However the opposing player can do the same thing.
    Thereby now you need 20 times the considered normal
    size attack fleet to kill your opponents base.

    So is it cheaper to build the defenses vs a fleet 20
    times the normal size? Lets not forget a time issue
    of how long it takes to achieve these results as in
    how long will it take to acquire the minerals for a fleet
    20 times the size of normal?

    Then add in the stronger Barbitic mines and we delay
    the game some more. Attack fleets in the future will
    have to be much larger than they are now to "win"
    a military victory.

    Military victory vs economic growth victory by point system.

    Hmm in a game decided by growth victory points over a
    set number of turns just went decidedly in favor of high growth
    races as the military ability to reduce these high growth races
    just went decidedly south. But again only for those in the know.

    In a military victory game in which points are not used well now
    we have just prolonged those type of games by boosting base
    defenses so much the aggressor will need a far longer time
    frame to build a fleet large enough to do the job and then go slower to
    do the job because of the increased barbitic mines.
    And that longer time frame will allow the defender to better
    prepare a mine field defense.
    Can you say 1 turn a week games that take 2+ years to complete?

    Just some observations of host 193.

    What do I propose to do about that?
    Nothing I just play the game to have fun...
    According to Tim this game is nearly finished
    so why should I rock the boat...
  22. Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

    Then enlighten us with your knowledge.

    If it is a bug or loophole, then it can be fixed.
  23. Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

    Haha Leesmaz, you should read again! I wrote that only 2 of my pulsars has
    ground attack OFF and avoid Base ON, all the other ships (2x Nexus, 13x
    Pulsars) have had ground attack ON and Avoid Base OFF!

    Mydgard

    "LeeSMaz" <LeeSMaz1@hotmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
    news:1115618026.059754.38380@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
    >
    > I dont see a problem here with the fleet performance in the described
    > battle.
    > Just how many of the ships you sent in had AVOID BASE set to ON.
    >
    > If you wish to blow up a base, you should have this set to off.
    >
    > Having avoid base set to on and attack ground, you'd want to have long
    > distance weapons mounted and be understanding that the current VCR had
    > your ships head into the planet and then sowly circle away. To maximise
    > base damage you'd better have all ships AVOID BASE off and attack
    > ground on as they dont hang around for that long.
    >
    > I just bombarded a solorian base with just under 10 million colonists
    > with a lonely Moscow armed with disruptors....it did just fine. Battle
    > ended around 4500 time. Leaving 3 million colonists left and 7 cities
    > and not much else.
    > It did move away to cicle the outside after innitial attack on base but
    > at 2000 time moved back to attack the base again. Avoid base was off,
    > Attack ground was on.
    >
    > Cheers.
    >
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