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Question about a battle i had this turn

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Anonymous
May 6, 2005 5:28:30 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Hello everybody!


I invaded an enemy homeworld together with my ally (solorian + rebel against
another solorian)! The battle starts funny and ended WEIRD!

So could anyone explain it?

Here we go: Me (Solorians) send in 2x Nexus (LTLAs, LTLs, Ionic Gun Arrays,
Anti Matter Maul), 15x Pulsars (12xPTTs/Blaster/Sandcaster,
3xPPCs/Blaster/Sandcaster), each Pulsar has 6 fully Fighterwings docked
(4500 Fighters overall), Rebels send in 4x Tranquility, 1x Patriot, 2x
Guardians, 4 Fighterwings different equipped!

Enemy Solorians has about 26 Mio Colonists, 1,2 Mio troops, about 15 small
wings (9/0/1) in orbit and about 4 wings starting from base (about 1100
mostly T2), 1x Eclipse, 1x Solar Array, 1x M2 Flare, 1x Solar Wind, 1x
Corona!

Our ships came in second wave! Fighters were set to Ground Attack OFF!

Battle started: Massivly Fighting! About tick 250, all enemy ships/wings
have been destroyed!
Tick 300: Fleet arrives (Attack Vector 2 for all ships)
Tick 330-350 Both Nexus Fired their Anti Matter Maul into base (on has set
Kill to base other Kill to Eclipse)
Afterwards the Fleet moved slowly into the middle, Fighterwings moved out
forming a ring far away! Soon after Ships came into base range and start
fireing! They moved over the base and moved on the other side out of range!
At about tick 1000 fleet was out of range!
Next ticks no more fighting!
Tick 1400 - 1430: Both Nexus fired Anti Matter Maul second time into base
Tick 1500 - 1800: Most solorians/rebel ships leaves the battle!
Tick 2000 - 4700: 2 Pulsars, 4 Tranquilitys and 1 Patriot left, All
Tranquilites moved in to start a second firering round, Patriots leaves
short after, Pulsars stay but didn't fight (was set to Avoid Ground base as
of mostly Sandcasters to kill FighterWings)
Tick 4740: Battle ends!
Enemy Solorian has still 19 Mio Colonists, 270 Cities, some AAA Guns, some
farms, some factories, 20 public Spaceports

So could PLEASE anyone explain what happend?

Why did my ships leaved the battle so early (they have had at least 2000
Ordnance left, Both Nexus has mostly energy weapons, all my ships have had
enough energy power (engines+generators) to fire weapons each second!

And additional question:

If these HUGE fleet with Superweapons couldn't destroy a lonely base in ONE
turn, what will i need to kill the enemy solorian bases a little bit faster?
I mean he has over 150 Bases, at least about 30 with over 1 Mio Colonists!

Anyone an idea what have happened?

Thx in advance!

Mydgard

More about : question battle turn

Anonymous
May 6, 2005 5:28:31 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Precise description. Since most of your ships seem to have been set to
'avoid base - off' and 'attack ground targets - on' (recheck that),
there's only one answer: sent the rst to Tim with an explanation. He
needs to see such battles to recalibrate the VCR. If he expresses an
interest, ask host (or the site admin) to send the yig and trn files,
too.
May 6, 2005 5:28:31 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

I would consider it a bug (under current vcr rules) if close to point
blank would have been enabled - it was not.
Related resources
Anonymous
May 6, 2005 5:28:31 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Is it possible that ground chunnel still worked after the corona was
destroyed, and he chunneled that base in on top of the other one?
Anonymous
May 6, 2005 7:59:17 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

I can not explain.
But I had a similar situation.
With a UEA drednaught loaded with blaster cannon.
It bombarded the base below for 5 turns.
Then I ground assaulted and captured the base on the 6th turn.
My ship had and still has plenty of ord.

Each turn I did only about 5% damage to the base.
By turn 6 the base was reduced about 50% below
where it started on turn 1.

With this current preformance the only way to kill
bases in a timely manner is with a super laser.
Use it to kill the planet. Oh but that does not work on the
Solorian or Privs. So good luck.
Anonymous
May 6, 2005 8:25:13 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Ok,

good point, will send my rst to Tim Wissman ...

And yes all ships has set avoid base off and attack ground targets on (the
two left pulsars at the end of battle has avoid base yes and attack ground
base no)

Mydgard

"Lord Owl" <lord.owl@gmx.de> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:1115383045.323461.295130@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Precise description. Since most of your ships seem to have been set to
> 'avoid base - off' and 'attack ground targets - on' (recheck that),
> there's only one answer: sent the rst to Tim with an explanation. He
> needs to see such battles to recalibrate the VCR. If he expresses an
> interest, ask host (or the site admin) to send the yig and trn files,
> too.
>
Anonymous
May 6, 2005 8:38:39 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

There is no close to point blank for ships, only for fighterwings!?

Mydgard

"Nameless" <unknown_ai@web.de> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:1115385128.217144.268600@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>I would consider it a bug (under current vcr rules) if close to point
> blank would have been enabled - it was not.
>
Anonymous
May 6, 2005 8:52:45 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Nameless schrieb:
> I would consider it a bug (under current vcr rules) if close to point
> blank would have been enabled - it was not.

What do you mean with close tp point blank mean ?? Ships have not such a
switch only wings.

I have similar problems. I attack the small undefended Outposts of a
race (most around 1 K colos) and my battles end between combat tick 500
and 800 only after my ship have shoot 1 round of weapons against the
Bases and if the come out of range of the Base the combats ends and Base
are not destroyed only made some damage. (But have only small LWs in my
ships Disruptors or FBs as I use my small ships for it.)

Bye-Bye JoSch.
Anonymous
May 7, 2005 8:00:04 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Normally: No, as ground chunnel is very late, after movement and battle


<jasonnorthrup@yahoo.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:1115394012.883061.322440@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>
> Is it possible that ground chunnel still worked after the corona was
> destroyed, and he chunneled that base in on top of the other one?
>
Anonymous
May 7, 2005 8:07:01 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Additional question:

Can anybody plz confirm: AAA Guns needs ordnance to fire?? Because Solorians
homeworld has still 79 AAA Guns left, but no Ordnance in base and no
ordnance plant left ... so if they can't shoot i will try to fire with wings
also!?

Mydgard
Anonymous
May 7, 2005 11:13:11 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Mydgard schrieb:
> Additional question:
>
> Can anybody plz confirm: AAA Guns needs ordnance to fire?? Because Solorians
> homeworld has still 79 AAA Guns left, but no Ordnance in base and no
> ordnance plant left ... so if they can't shoot i will try to fire with wings
> also!?
>
> Mydgard

AAs don't use up Ord if there was no change in the last few hosts. But
it maybe (but not think so) that they need some initial ord on the Base.

And think Gabor means PTTs and the PPTs are a typo in his post.
But in the past as I tried PTTs they are not good against Bases and as
they need Ord (=money) I have not tried it often. From my expierence
PPC, TLAs and LTAs make more damage but for this they mst make more then
one attack run against the Base and not like now only one and then stay
out of range.

Bye-Bye JoSch.
Anonymous
May 9, 2005 2:53:46 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

I dont see a problem here with the fleet performance in the described
battle.
Just how many of the ships you sent in had AVOID BASE set to ON.

If you wish to blow up a base, you should have this set to off.

Having avoid base set to on and attack ground, you'd want to have long
distance weapons mounted and be understanding that the current VCR had
your ships head into the planet and then sowly circle away. To maximise
base damage you'd better have all ships AVOID BASE off and attack
ground on as they dont hang around for that long.

I just bombarded a solorian base with just under 10 million colonists
with a lonely Moscow armed with disruptors....it did just fine. Battle
ended around 4500 time. Leaving 3 million colonists left and 7 cities
and not much else.
It did move away to cicle the outside after innitial attack on base but
at 2000 time moved back to attack the base again. Avoid base was off,
Attack ground was on.

Cheers.
Anonymous
May 9, 2005 2:58:35 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Actually additionally, u might want to sim that battle as the solorian
gets a free base shiled at the 10 million colonist population so
without your fighters atacking the base...only weapon to attack with is
your super weapon...all else will leave???
May 9, 2005 5:06:10 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

nospam wrote:
> Nameless schrieb:
> > I would consider it a bug (under current vcr rules) if close to
point
> > blank would have been enabled - it was not.
>
> What do you mean with close tp point blank mean ?? Ships have not
such a
> switch only wings.

Yep, they do not have, but what switches would you use (without me
telling you which to use) to simulate the switch close to point
blank...


> I have similar problems. I attack the small undefended Outposts of a
> race (most around 1 K colos) and my battles end between combat tick
500
> and 800 only after my ship have shoot 1 round of weapons against the
> Bases and if the come out of range of the Base the combats ends and
Base
> are not destroyed only made some damage.

I can assure you that the early ending battles have nothing to do with
a base being involved, this things can happen with all objects, more or
less regardless of settings - and are features of the new 'improved'
vcr combat logic.

> (But have only small LWs in my
> ships Disruptors or FBs as I use my small ships for it.)
Anonymous
May 9, 2005 6:39:32 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

LeeSMaz wrote:
> I dont see a problem here with the fleet performance in the described
> battle.
> Just how many of the ships you sent in had AVOID BASE set to ON.
>
> If you wish to blow up a base, you should have this set to off.
>
> Having avoid base set to on and attack ground, you'd want to have
long
> distance weapons mounted and be understanding that the current VCR
had
> your ships head into the planet and then sowly circle away. To
maximise
> base damage you'd better have all ships AVOID BASE off and attack
> ground on as they dont hang around for that long.
>

This is good advice and correct thinking but does not help Mygard
situation at all. Nor does it help me.

> I just bombarded a solorian base with just under 10 million colonists
> with a lonely Moscow armed with disruptors....it did just fine.

Yes I know it did. But not at all for the reasons you think.
If the base you attacked had different buildings inside the base,
Buildings that Mygard and I had to face then your battle result
would have been far different for you even with the same combat
settings you listed. Just wait til the Solorian player in your game
figures this out. Then you will not be able to bombard those bases
from space any longer. Or I should say you will need 20 times
the fire power that you are using now to get the same effect.
The damage done to the base is scalable by the number of special
buildings and the correct combinations.
In extreme cases (which are possible) a base can become nearly
totaly immune to orbit bombardment. But this requires expensive
building costs by the owner of the base for defense.
Controling the damage done by orbit bombardment lies with the
owner of the base, not at all with the player attacking the base.
Not sure if this is a bug or a loophole. But the defender has
total control of the outcome of an orbit bombardment.
Just most of you do not realize that yet.

Battle
> ended around 4500 time. Leaving 3 million colonists left and 7 cities
> and not much else.
> It did move away to cicle the outside after innitial attack on base
but
> at 2000 time moved back to attack the base again. Avoid base was off,
> Attack ground was on.
>
> Cheers.
Anonymous
May 9, 2005 7:21:50 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Are u indicating that if we build our special race buildings...that
they get damage from orbit first in preference to population.??
May 9, 2005 10:39:32 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

I do think there is something seriously wrong with the combat versus
bases. Few turns ago I attacked a CoM base with almost every colonist
of that race precent (about 6 mio).

I am playing Enforcers and had a massive fleet armed with weapons which
should have bonus on base balsting ( anti-matter guns, 500 mm guns and
balster cannons) and of course several Ranger stations with bunch of
ionic gun arrays to capture all his ships.

My ships just attacked once and then circled far from the base and
battle ended fas too soon. I would have liked to destroy the base
completely to make lose all his crew so I could nicely jump away with
his entire fleet. Of course this did not happen and now I'm facing his
allyes lizards and Aczanny coming to help with big fleets. I think this
is a little bit frustrating atleast.

If there is some reason for this behavior please tell. I did not have
any ships on avoid ground base and all the ships had attack ground
targets "ON". Also all my ships had do not fire on disabled ON of
course so does that have something to do with this behavior
Anonymous
May 9, 2005 2:31:18 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

LeeSMaz schrieb:
> I dont see a problem here with the fleet performance in the described
> battle.
> Just how many of the ships you sent in had AVOID BASE set to ON.
>
> If you wish to blow up a base, you should have this set to off.
>
> Having avoid base set to on and attack ground, you'd want to have long
> distance weapons mounted and be understanding that the current VCR had
> your ships head into the planet and then sowly circle away. To maximise
> base damage you'd better have all ships AVOID BASE off and attack
> ground on as they dont hang around for that long.
>
> I just bombarded a solorian base with just under 10 million colonists
> with a lonely Moscow armed with disruptors....it did just fine. Battle
> ended around 4500 time. Leaving 3 million colonists left and 7 cities
> and not much else.
> It did move away to cicle the outside after innitial attack on base but
> at 2000 time moved back to attack the base again. Avoid base was off,
> Attack ground was on.
>
> Cheers.

Sorry, my ships have this settings (but don't fire on disabled is ON
too) and some of my ships have Disruptors mounted. All combats ends
latest around tick 800 and if the quickly end around tick 450. I tried
it with RCS Everygreens and Willows.

Bye-Bye JoSch.
Anonymous
May 9, 2005 8:23:15 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Well, ok, with out a doubt there is something strange in ship combat
these days.


But on the other side I just took a ACB with 20 PTTs against a 1M base
with undercities, raid shelters, 110 anti air guns and 20
ion cannons. The Cube only had the order attack ground targets and
destroyed the base at tick 474 between the 5th and 6th circle
of after passing the center.


The whole combat ended at tick 800.


GFM GToeroe

I like this thread so many people trying to convince
others that everything is ok.
Well I agree. No problem at all Tim.
The longer this lasts the better off I am.
Anonymous
May 9, 2005 11:06:05 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Well, ok, with out a doubt there is something strange in ship combat these days.

But on the other side I just took a ACB with 20 PTTs against a 1M base with undercities, raid shelters, 110 anti air guns and 20
ion cannons. The Cube only had the order attack ground targets and destroyed the base at tick 474 between the 5th and 6th circle
of after passing the center.

The whole combat ended at tick 800.

GFM GToeroe



"Nosferatu" <tomi.ristimaki@netikka.fi> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:1115645972.536351.235410@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> I do think there is something seriously wrong with the combat versus
> bases. Few turns ago I attacked a CoM base with almost every colonist
> of that race precent (about 6 mio).
>
> I am playing Enforcers and had a massive fleet armed with weapons which
> should have bonus on base balsting ( anti-matter guns, 500 mm guns and
> balster cannons) and of course several Ranger stations with bunch of
> ionic gun arrays to capture all his ships.
>
> My ships just attacked once and then circled far from the base and
> battle ended fas too soon. I would have liked to destroy the base
> completely to make lose all his crew so I could nicely jump away with
> his entire fleet. Of course this did not happen and now I'm facing his
> allyes lizards and Aczanny coming to help with big fleets. I think this
> is a little bit frustrating atleast.
>
> If there is some reason for this behavior please tell. I did not have
> any ships on avoid ground base and all the ships had attack ground
> targets "ON". Also all my ships had do not fire on disabled ON of
> course so does that have something to do with this behavior
>
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 1:00:33 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

No,no,no

The current behavior is a "whole mess". I tried to simulate the former battle with Diplomat (while leaving the Rebel ships).
Result: The battle ended before even the second wave ships entered!

GFM GToeroe

"minime-hammer" <Dctr__Evil@hotmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:1115680995.547714.268800@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> Well, ok, with out a doubt there is something strange in ship combat
> these days.
>
>
> But on the other side I just took a ACB with 20 PTTs against a 1M base
> with undercities, raid shelters, 110 anti air guns and 20
> ion cannons. The Cube only had the order attack ground targets and
> destroyed the base at tick 474 between the 5th and 6th circle
> of after passing the center.
>
>
> The whole combat ended at tick 800.
>
>
> GFM GToeroe
>
> I like this thread so many people trying to convince
> others that everything is ok.
> Well I agree. No problem at all Tim.
> The longer this lasts the better off I am.
>
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 3:49:50 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

I believe we have 2 different problems in this thread.

I think Mydgard's original complaint in the first post
was that his ships did not stay in the fight long enough
to kill the Solorian base. He thinks and rightly so, that
if the vcr behavior was changed so that his ships would
have stayed in combat range of the base long enough
to empty their ord on the base then the base would have
been destroyed.
But this assumption of "that would result in the destruction of the
base" is in error. Even if that vcr code changed the result would not.
The base would still survive.

What I am saying is even if the vcr behavior changed to
allow those ships to drop their entire ord load on the enemy base
it still would survive if it was designed properly.
A proper designed base will nullify up to 99% of the incoming
damage done to the base. This I am beginning to think was
an intentional design change to the game done by Tim.
This is part 2 of this thread. In Mydgard situation the base he
faced nullified about 15% of the incoming damage.
Did the owner do that by design or by accident and did he realize
how that happened? Those are questions to ask them.
Did either Mydgard or his opponent realize what really happened and
why? Can either capitolize from it? Maybe!!!!
Time will tell how many people discover Tim's unannounced game
change. This change might have been done quite a while ago,
I just found it now, so it might not have been done with host 193.

It does allow some interesting strategy decissions.
Like why do you need a defensive fleet?
(huge advantage for those that realize this before
their opponent) (why?) (Because I do not need a
20 times normal size fleet to kill an oponent that
does not have a proper designed base but he does
need that to kill me and only if he realizes that,
should he send a fleet too small I kill him and he
does not kill me )
After this is well known then...
Of course this will lead to the cost comparrison
of building defenses vs ships to do the same job.
But then if you no longer need a defensive fleet
then you can go offensive with the fleet you have.
Special considerations need to be taken for ground
assault and or ship devices of certain races that do
not require destruction of a base to effectively eliminate
it.

However the opposing player can do the same thing.
Thereby now you need 20 times the considered normal
size attack fleet to kill your opponents base.

So is it cheaper to build the defenses vs a fleet 20
times the normal size? Lets not forget a time issue
of how long it takes to achieve these results as in
how long will it take to acquire the minerals for a fleet
20 times the size of normal?

Then add in the stronger Barbitic mines and we delay
the game some more. Attack fleets in the future will
have to be much larger than they are now to "win"
a military victory.

Military victory vs economic growth victory by point system.

Hmm in a game decided by growth victory points over a
set number of turns just went decidedly in favor of high growth
races as the military ability to reduce these high growth races
just went decidedly south. But again only for those in the know.

In a military victory game in which points are not used well now
we have just prolonged those type of games by boosting base
defenses so much the aggressor will need a far longer time
frame to build a fleet large enough to do the job and then go slower to
do the job because of the increased barbitic mines.
And that longer time frame will allow the defender to better
prepare a mine field defense.
Can you say 1 turn a week games that take 2+ years to complete?

Just some observations of host 193.

What do I propose to do about that?
Nothing I just play the game to have fun...
According to Tim this game is nearly finished
so why should I rock the boat...
Anonymous
May 11, 2005 4:57:26 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Then enlighten us with your knowledge.

If it is a bug or loophole, then it can be fixed.
Anonymous
May 11, 2005 10:37:29 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Haha Leesmaz, you should read again! I wrote that only 2 of my pulsars has
ground attack OFF and avoid Base ON, all the other ships (2x Nexus, 13x
Pulsars) have had ground attack ON and Avoid Base OFF!

Mydgard

"LeeSMaz" <LeeSMaz1@hotmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:1115618026.059754.38380@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> I dont see a problem here with the fleet performance in the described
> battle.
> Just how many of the ships you sent in had AVOID BASE set to ON.
>
> If you wish to blow up a base, you should have this set to off.
>
> Having avoid base set to on and attack ground, you'd want to have long
> distance weapons mounted and be understanding that the current VCR had
> your ships head into the planet and then sowly circle away. To maximise
> base damage you'd better have all ships AVOID BASE off and attack
> ground on as they dont hang around for that long.
>
> I just bombarded a solorian base with just under 10 million colonists
> with a lonely Moscow armed with disruptors....it did just fine. Battle
> ended around 4500 time. Leaving 3 million colonists left and 7 cities
> and not much else.
> It did move away to cicle the outside after innitial attack on base but
> at 2000 time moved back to attack the base again. Avoid base was off,
> Attack ground was on.
>
> Cheers.
>
!