New Bird Guide

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I've written a Bird guide which should be up to date and more complete
than existing ones. It can be found from Klingon Kommand

www.furfur.demon.co.uk/geop/birds.doc.

All suggestions and feedback are welcome.

-Jani
 
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A couple comments: Posting it in doc format instead of converting it to
html: :nono:
Not URL manging for the Klingon Kommand :nono:

On the small weapons for the Deth Spec, at the very least spend a few
extra bucks for tech 3 ones. Pulsed Lasers are not improved by exotic
small weapons shield and armor bonus, you need a tech 3+ small weapon.
 
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joncn...@yahoo.com wrote:
> A couple comments: Posting it in doc format instead of converting it
to
> html: :nono:
> Not URL manging for the Klingon Kommand :nono:

The reason it's posted in doc format is my laziness, I do have plans to
publish a html -version too. But it certainly isn't the only guide in
doc format around.

>
> On the small weapons for the Deth Spec, at the very least spend a few
> extra bucks for tech 3 ones. Pulsed Lasers are not improved by exotic
> small weapons shield and armor bonus, you need a tech 3+ small
weapon.

Gabor Törö pretty much summarized the reason to use PLs. Few more
reasons. The problem with DS is not the shield drain but the armor
drain. And in that PLs are best SW unless you are willing to pay 12
000mc per turn to maintain both SW armor exotics. With that money you
could build 6 more DS per turn with PLs. Actually if you sim it you
find out that it's pretty much same has DS any SWs or not, the results
are same. So it's better keep SW as cheap as possible and when PLs
happen to be best in armor drain which is weak point of PTTs, the PLs
are a suberb choice.

-Jani
 

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Gabor Törö wrote:
>Well, I have never got a real proove for using other SW than PLs. I
heard >things like tachyons could hit a soft spot from
>distance or the unprooved side effects of the SWs on the different
opponent's >ship systems.

For the DS there is usually no real reason to use any other SW than
PLs, unless the range is of the SW is over 900 (preferable without
using ord).
For ship designs with not such a high attack rating it can be
different. And then it matters whom you are fighting.
Of course a setup Stormer DS vs Bird DS needs special attention...

>In discussions about this subject my argument is:
>
>Calculate H: The costs of the hull + equippment but without SW
>Calculate S: The costs for the one used SW
>Calculate E: The mean effect (shield/armor drain & kill/blast as the
most >important ones) per tick of one SW at point blank with
>all given bonuses and maluses (Exotechs, Scav x2 bonus and so on)
>
>An extension to factor in a given range is possible. One then could
use a >"feeled" mean vcr distance to targets. But this is no
>easy thing, I think...
>
>Let N be the number of SW slots and calculate
>
>CE = E / ( H/N + S ) and call it "cash efficiency"

>The combination with the best cash efficiency is my favourite, which I
try and >examine at first. If you look at the formula you
>see expensive designs with a few slots could be candidates for using
other SWs >than PL.

Cute. And an argument that I would not use...
Especially not in your case as you do not even know which 'unproved'
special effects
some small weapons have - maybe you want to look at the small weapons
page in the online help files...
....and try again afterwards.

>Do you have a proove (with "proove" also a given setup for diplomat is
meant) >for a given situation where for example tachyons
>should be preferred?

No proove, but maybe a proof or maybe I can prove it.
And with the messed up vcr it is exceptionally funny to accept a given
diplomat setup (or general combat setup)
as a proof for such things.

> I suspect one have to search a long time to find good arguments for
using >other SWs then PLs.

Nope, did not take long. And then I did not search only recall.

> At least if
>one deals with small to medium sized ships.

>Maybe I'm blind.

Well I will not disagree with that statement...

> Maybe Nameless' Centaurs could enlight me, but I don't think so.

Well that are not MY Centaurs, if they were they would no longer have
the possibility to roast amorphs...
....but of course that does not mean that I could not enlighten you, but
the question would be:
Why should I?
And as a little hint in many cases I would only put pulsed laser on the
Cent ships, when fighting Cents with small weapons
I would use different ones. Of course weapons like the Streak Missles
(only Shah for Cents) and the Tachyon Guns are an option...
But I will stop here before I am going into unnecessary details...

>The money spent for a tachyon battery could be used to build some more
wings or >more small dirty cheep ships with flake cannons
>to improve a fighter screen for example.

What are cheep ships? Did you mean sheep ships or cheap ships.
I know you meant the former.
And I would rarely put flake cannons on a Cent ship which is not a
Shah.
....
 
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"Sabotage Ships" targets *all* enemy ships? Or a single random ship?

What is the formula?
 
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What are the odds of each ship being effected?

Damage is equal to a Barbitic minehit?
 
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<joncnunn@yahoo.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:1115658890.639037.91970@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> A couple comments: Posting it in doc format instead of converting it to
> html: :nono:
> Not URL manging for the Klingon Kommand :nono:
>
> On the small weapons for the Deth Spec, at the very least spend a few
> extra bucks for tech 3 ones. Pulsed Lasers are not improved by exotic
> small weapons shield and armor bonus, you need a tech 3+ small weapon.
>
Well, I have never got a real proove for using other SW than PLs. I heard things like tachyons could hit a soft spot from
distance or the unprooved side effects of the SWs on the different opponent's ship systems.

In discussions about this subject my argument is:

Calculate H: The costs of the hull + equippment but without SW
Calculate S: The costs for the one used SW
Calculate E: The mean effect (shield/armor drain & kill/blast as the most important ones) per tick of one SW at point blank with
all given bonuses and maluses (Exotechs, Scav x2 bonus and so on)

An extension to factor in a given range is possible. One then could use a "feeled" mean vcr distance to targets. But this is no
easy thing, I think...

Let N be the number of SW slots and calculate

CE = E / ( H/N + S ) and call it "cash efficiency"

The combination with the best cash efficiency is my favourite, which I try and examine at first. If you look at the formula you
see expensive designs with a few slots could be candidates for using other SWs than PL.

Do you have a proove (with "proove" also a given setup for diplomat is meant) for a given situation where for example tachyons
should be preferred? I suspect one have to search a long time to find good arguments for using other SWs then PLs. At least if
one deals with small to medium sized ships. Maybe I'm blind. Maybe Nameless' Centaurs could enlight me, but I don't think so.

The money spent for a tachyon battery could be used to build some more wings or more small dirty cheep ships with flake cannons
to improve a fighter screen for example.

GFM GToeroe
 
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Amaranthine schrieb:
> "Sabotage Ships" targets *all* enemy ships? Or a single random ship?
>
> What is the formula?

All.

Bye-Bye JoSch.
 
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>...but of course that does not mean that I could not enlighten you,
but
>the question would be:
>Why should I?

You should probably keep your precious secrets... they seemed to do you
Sooooo well when you played your 'unstoppable' Cents against skilled
players.
 

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david_ba...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >...but of course that does not mean that I could not enlighten you,
> but
> >the question would be:
> >Why should I?
>
> You should probably keep your precious secrets... they seemed to do
you
> Sooooo well when you played your 'unstoppable' Cents against skilled
> players.

First of all let us draw a few conclusions from your statement, might
it be that you are actually saying that people like Maximilian Liao are
not skilled players... I have no problem with such a statement, but
maybe...
I really like it if people underestimate me - it makes some things so
much easier.

And just for your info, I did turn down an alliance proposal from the
Lizards very early in the game you are refering to, why well ask
Lordfire (and that was before a certain turn). Also you can search in
this ng for a certain money making ability not used in that game,
eventhough I hinted at it both in emails and on this ng) and the effect
it could have had on that game...
Or that I choose to let me slaughtered and not having no chance but
getting...
Iff (since you probably do not know this means 'if and only if') I had
wanted to the result would have been much different then the actual
outcome of the game.

And last but not least to the term 'unstoppable', well you probably
still do
no understand as to why I did make a few very clear statements before
that game start.
 
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Amaranthine schrieb:
> What are the odds of each ship being effected?
>
> Damage is equal to a Barbitic minehit?

As the minehit damge should be changed "Changed: Minefield power
increased, they do more damage when you hit them." (how much do it make
now ? ) I don't know the actual compare.

In the past it could destroy a ship up to 100 KT hull mass, but the
damage you made vari much. One factor for the damage seems to be the
dark power.

Not much written about the spy actions and the factors which influence
them. Maybe the old one from Clausimus site
http://www.saarlandoutpost.com/clausimu is up to date. Look there under
Host Chabges + FAQ under Mis../Spying or look at Tims Online help.

I'm interested in a good doc about it too. So please post if you find one.

Bye-Bye JoSch.
 
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Two Annis both with plasma bolts and intercepts one with xenons the other with mesons both with attack dangerous and strike
through met each other in the center and decided at tick 390 with almost intact shield to end the fight.

Tim, is that intended to be?!

GFM GToeroe
 
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'Iff (since you probably do not know this means 'if and only if') I had

wanted to the result would have been much different then the actual
outcome of the game.'


I'm sure that's the reason...

Not everyone is as big a fool as you think they are, or you are, as the
case may be.


Your words cannot mask your incompetence, they only prove them.
 
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"Nameless" <unknown_ai@web.de> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:1115675781.164346.159460@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

>Cute. And an argument that I would not use...
>Especially not in your case as you do not even know which 'unproved'
>special effects
>some small weapons have - maybe you want to look at the small weapons
>page in the online help files...
>...and try again afterwards.

That's why I stated this here. Do you think that I'm not curious enough to find a way apart from common sense.
All my diplomat sims say that using L to block PL, positron to block SMs, xenon to block PD, meson& plasma guns to block LW is
almost useless.

If you have other experiences then tell me. IMHO, the side effects are too wek for becoming important in standard situations (not
such as trying to overwhelm the evasive bonuses of Centaur ships).

I mean it isn't war deciding if you rely only on PLs or not in general.

>...but of course that does not mean that I could not enlighten you, but
>the question would be:
>Why should I?

Getting a entrance for heaven?

GFM GToeroe
 
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gray_Z@yahoo.com wrote:
> joncn...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>>A couple comments: Posting it in doc format instead of converting it
>
> to
>
>>html: :nono:
>>Not URL manging for the Klingon Kommand :nono:
>
>
> The reason it's posted in doc format is my laziness, I do have plans to
> publish a html -version too. But it certainly isn't the only guide in
> doc format around.

Well at least you are honest. Lazy but honest.

But look. How about "save as HTML", then run the result through a
cleanup tool. Like de-moronizer. Go on. You know we want you to.
 
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Just to get this back on track.

I've just finished playing the birds. Got into a war against the
Stormers and Borg - although I had allies which were taking on most of
their forces.

I found that cloak was worse than useless because it made me feel like
I was hidden when they could nearly always see me.

I don't know what the likelihood of seeing a ships with zero sensor
noise is, but for this calculation I'm going to assume 1%.

If you have 10 ships in a fleet, and they have 20 ships that have
sensor coverage over that fleet, then that gives them 200 chances to
spot a ship. At 1% hit rate, they will see 2 of your ships (on
average).

Attack and the odds get even worse as then there is planetary scanners
and the home guard ships to increase the shots at seeing you.
Furthermore get into a single battle, and then they can hit you the
next turn.

Cloak has to be used very selectively. Just one or two ships, in out
of the way places. If they can see heaps of your ships, then they
won't worry about the ones they can't see, and that has to be your main
weapon.
 

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david_ba...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> Not everyone is as big a fool as you think they are, or you are, as
the
> case may be.

So what a big fool do I think you are?

>
> Your words cannot mask your incompetence, they only prove them.

Funny, is it not, that you said in another post that I did already
prove something.
 
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I *think* 0 sensor image means 0% visibility. Anything more (the 5
from the Robot Q Tanker) is supposedly much less useful. I'm not
really convinced of that though, as I have a few ships that should have
long since been taken out or captured if they were visible.
 
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Definitely not. I'll need my enemies to confirm, but if I sent a fleet
of cloaked ships out, he knew where they were.

It didn't help that he was the stormer and apparently had about 20 Cold
Class cruisers covering my space. And the Borg probably added another
10 ships or so covering my space.

Admittedly it was a small map. My entire empire was only about 200ly
by 100 ly, but assuming you can't be seen is wrong.

Also make a note in the cloaking section that if you give order to your
ships to transport, they are 100% visible in the next turn the
opposition sees. So you have to build a ship. Next turn transport up
what you want. Next turn head out cloaked in the direction you want.
 
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Mantzikert schrieb:
> Definitely not. I'll need my enemies to confirm, but if I sent a fleet
> of cloaked ships out, he knew where they were.
>
> It didn't help that he was the stormer and apparently had about 20 Cold
> Class cruisers covering my space. And the Borg probably added another
> 10 ships or so covering my space.
>
> Admittedly it was a small map. My entire empire was only about 200ly
> by 100 ly, but assuming you can't be seen is wrong.
>
> Also make a note in the cloaking section that if you give order to your
> ships to transport, they are 100% visible in the next turn the
> opposition sees. So you have to build a ship. Next turn transport up
> what you want. Next turn head out cloaked in the direction you want.

In Tims doc files are written that Transporter make sensor noise, so
increase the sensor image, so no wonder that the enemy can see you.

But as FAIK the transporter make only sensor noise if you transport
something to objects where you are not the owner, beaming to own Bases
or ships make no sensor noise.

Bye-Bye JoSch.
 

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nospam wrote:
> In Tims doc files are written that Transporter make sensor noise, so
> increase the sensor image, so no wonder that the enemy can see you.
>
> But as FAIK the transporter make only sensor noise if you transport
> something to objects where you are not the owner, beaming to own
Bases
> or ships make no sensor noise.
>
> Bye-Bye JoSch.

And as a little addition, there might be a chance (maybe 1%) that
cloaking does fail, at least that was the believe of a few persons on
the newsgroup in ancient times...
Although it got never verified.
 
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david_bandy@hotmail.com wrote:
> >...but of course that does not mean that I could not enlighten you,
> but
> >the question would be:
> >Why should I?
>
> You should probably keep your precious secrets... they seemed to do
you
> Sooooo well when you played your 'unstoppable' Cents against skilled
> players.

That's pretty funny Dave. Haha.

In this game, any of the skilled players (don't worry, I don't put
myself in that ranking) can win in any game.
Some conditions affect things (contra, where starting base is in
relation, natives, etc.). Anyway, sorry to stray away from the
subject.

Thanks for the guide.

Take care,

Mike (febemike)
 
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"Nameless" <unknown_ai@web.de> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:1115908274.508316.103080@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...


> And as a little addition, there might be a chance (maybe 1%) that
> cloaking does fail, at least that was the believe of a few persons on
> the newsgroup in ancient times...
> Although it got never verified.

I rember a sim where over ten turns 100 Outrider weren't able to detect 100 Deth Specs at disctance of 7 lj.
 
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Gabor Törö wrote:
> "Nameless" <unknown_ai@web.de> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:1115908274.508316.103080@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> > And as a little addition, there might be a chance (maybe 1%) that
> > cloaking does fail, at least that was the believe of a few persons
on
> > the newsgroup in ancient times...
> > Although it got never verified.
>
> I rember a sim where over ten turns 100 Outrider weren't able to
detect 100 Deth Specs at disctance of 7 lj.

Well, I played the borg against the Manzikert's Bird empire and the
borg and stormer ally could see what ended up being around about 15-75%
of the bird's ships every turn. Manzikert did make a lot of noise at
one point and looked into the formula's of cloaking. He did change the
method, ensuring no transporting etc but it didn't make any difference,
we were able to see where his major fleets were and intercepted them
and killed them. We found about 15 dethspec's easily boarded and took
out each darkwing.
 
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Wow, I assumed you could see 10-20% of my fleet, but I didn't realise
it was that bad.

When the Lizard player was making a lot of complaints earlier in the
game, we just thought he was being melodramatic, but does cloaking
still work?