New Bird Guide

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I've written a Bird guide which should be up to date and more complete
than existing ones. It can be found from Klingon Kommand

www.furfur.demon.co.uk/geop/birds.doc.

All suggestions and feedback are welcome.

-Jani

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<joncnunn@yahoo.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:1115658890.639037.91970@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> A couple comments: Posting it in doc format instead of converting it to
> html:
> Not URL manging for the Klingon Kommand
>
> On the small weapons for the Deth Spec, at the very least spend a few
> extra bucks for tech 3 ones. Pulsed Lasers are not improved by exotic
> small weapons shield and armor bonus, you need a tech 3+ small weapon.
>
Well, I have never got a real proove for using other SW than PLs. I heard things like tachyons could hit a soft spot from
distance or the unprooved side effects of the SWs on the different opponent's ship systems.

In discussions about this subject my argument is:

Calculate H: The costs of the hull + equippment but without SW
Calculate S: The costs for the one used SW
Calculate E: The mean effect (shield/armor drain & kill/blast as the most important ones) per tick of one SW at point blank with
all given bonuses and maluses (Exotechs, Scav x2 bonus and so on)

An extension to factor in a given range is possible. One then could use a "feeled" mean vcr distance to targets. But this is no
easy thing, I think...

Let N be the number of SW slots and calculate

CE = E / ( H/N + S ) and call it "cash efficiency"

The combination with the best cash efficiency is my favourite, which I try and examine at first. If you look at the formula you
see expensive designs with a few slots could be candidates for using other SWs than PL.

Do you have a proove (with "proove" also a given setup for diplomat is meant) for a given situation where for example tachyons
should be preferred? I suspect one have to search a long time to find good arguments for using other SWs then PLs. At least if
one deals with small to medium sized ships. Maybe I'm blind. Maybe Nameless' Centaurs could enlight me, but I don't think so.

The money spent for a tachyon battery could be used to build some more wings or more small dirty cheep ships with flake cannons
to improve a fighter screen for example.

GFM GToeroe

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Gabor Törö wrote:
>Well, I have never got a real proove for using other SW than PLs. I
heard >things like tachyons could hit a soft spot from
>distance or the unprooved side effects of the SWs on the different
opponent's >ship systems.

For the DS there is usually no real reason to use any other SW than
PLs, unless the range is of the SW is over 900 (preferable without
using ord).
For ship designs with not such a high attack rating it can be
different. And then it matters whom you are fighting.
Of course a setup Stormer DS vs Bird DS needs special attention...

>In discussions about this subject my argument is:
>
>Calculate H: The costs of the hull + equippment but without SW
>Calculate S: The costs for the one used SW
>Calculate E: The mean effect (shield/armor drain & kill/blast as the
most >important ones) per tick of one SW at point blank with
>all given bonuses and maluses (Exotechs, Scav x2 bonus and so on)
>
>An extension to factor in a given range is possible. One then could
use a >"feeled" mean vcr distance to targets. But this is no
>easy thing, I think...
>
>Let N be the number of SW slots and calculate
>
>CE = E / ( H/N + S ) and call it "cash efficiency"

>The combination with the best cash efficiency is my favourite, which I
try and >examine at first. If you look at the formula you
>see expensive designs with a few slots could be candidates for using
other SWs >than PL.

Cute. And an argument that I would not use...
Especially not in your case as you do not even know which 'unproved'
special effects
some small weapons have - maybe you want to look at the small weapons
page in the online help files...
....and try again afterwards.

>Do you have a proove (with "proove" also a given setup for diplomat is
meant) >for a given situation where for example tachyons
>should be preferred?

No proove, but maybe a proof or maybe I can prove it.
And with the messed up vcr it is exceptionally funny to accept a given
diplomat setup (or general combat setup)
as a proof for such things.

> I suspect one have to search a long time to find good arguments for
using >other SWs then PLs.

Nope, did not take long. And then I did not search only recall.

> At least if
>one deals with small to medium sized ships.

>Maybe I'm blind.

Well I will not disagree with that statement...

> Maybe Nameless' Centaurs could enlight me, but I don't think so.

Well that are not MY Centaurs, if they were they would no longer have
the possibility to roast amorphs...
....but of course that does not mean that I could not enlighten you, but
the question would be:
Why should I?
And as a little hint in many cases I would only put pulsed laser on the
Cent ships, when fighting Cents with small weapons
I would use different ones. Of course weapons like the Streak Missles
(only Shah for Cents) and the Tachyon Guns are an option...
But I will stop here before I am going into unnecessary details...

>The money spent for a tachyon battery could be used to build some more
wings or >more small dirty cheep ships with flake cannons
>to improve a fighter screen for example.

What are cheep ships? Did you mean sheep ships or cheap ships.
I know you meant the former.
And I would rarely put flake cannons on a Cent ship which is not a
Shah.
....

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Amaranthine schrieb:
> "Sabotage Ships" targets *all* enemy ships? Or a single random ship?
>
> What is the formula?

All.

Bye-Bye JoSch.

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Amaranthine schrieb:
> What are the odds of each ship being effected?
>
> Damage is equal to a Barbitic minehit?

As the minehit damge should be changed "Changed: Minefield power
increased, they do more damage when you hit them." (how much do it make
now ? ) I don't know the actual compare.

In the past it could destroy a ship up to 100 KT hull mass, but the
damage you made vari much. One factor for the damage seems to be the
dark power.

Not much written about the spy actions and the factors which influence
them. Maybe the old one from Clausimus site
http://www.saarlandoutpost.com/clausimu is up to date. Look there under
Host Chabges + FAQ under Mis../Spying or look at Tims Online help.

I'm interested in a good doc about it too. So please post if you find one.

Bye-Bye JoSch.

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"Nameless" <unknown_ai@web.de> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:1115675781.164346.159460@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

>Cute. And an argument that I would not use...
>Especially not in your case as you do not even know which 'unproved'
>special effects
>some small weapons have - maybe you want to look at the small weapons
>page in the online help files...
>...and try again afterwards.

That's why I stated this here. Do you think that I'm not curious enough to find a way apart from common sense.
All my diplomat sims say that using L to block PL, positron to block SMs, xenon to block PD, meson& plasma guns to block LW is
almost useless.

If you have other experiences then tell me. IMHO, the side effects are too wek for becoming important in standard situations (not
such as trying to overwhelm the evasive bonuses of Centaur ships).

I mean it isn't war deciding if you rely only on PLs or not in general.

>...but of course that does not mean that I could not enlighten you, but
>the question would be:
>Why should I?

Getting a entrance for heaven?

GFM GToeroe

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david_ba...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >...but of course that does not mean that I could not enlighten you,
> but
> >the question would be:
> >Why should I?
>
> You should probably keep your precious secrets... they seemed to do
you
> Sooooo well when you played your 'unstoppable' Cents against skilled
> players.

First of all let us draw a few conclusions from your statement, might
it be that you are actually saying that people like Maximilian Liao are
not skilled players... I have no problem with such a statement, but
maybe...
I really like it if people underestimate me - it makes some things so
much easier.

And just for your info, I did turn down an alliance proposal from the
Lizards very early in the game you are refering to, why well ask
Lordfire (and that was before a certain turn). Also you can search in
this ng for a certain money making ability not used in that game,
eventhough I hinted at it both in emails and on this ng) and the effect
it could have had on that game...
Or that I choose to let me slaughtered and not having no chance but
getting...
Iff (since you probably do not know this means 'if and only if') I had
wanted to the result would have been much different then the actual
outcome of the game.

And last but not least to the term 'unstoppable', well you probably
still do
no understand as to why I did make a few very clear statements before
that game start.

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'Iff (since you probably do not know this means 'if and only if') I had

wanted to the result would have been much different then the actual
outcome of the game.'


I'm sure that's the reason...

Not everyone is as big a fool as you think they are, or you are, as the
case may be.


Your words cannot mask your incompetence, they only prove them.

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david_ba...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> Not everyone is as big a fool as you think they are, or you are, as
the
> case may be.

So what a big fool do I think you are?

>
> Your words cannot mask your incompetence, they only prove them.

Funny, is it not, that you said in another post that I did already
prove something.

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Definitely not. I'll need my enemies to confirm, but if I sent a fleet
of cloaked ships out, he knew where they were.

It didn't help that he was the stormer and apparently had about 20 Cold
Class cruisers covering my space. And the Borg probably added another
10 ships or so covering my space.

Admittedly it was a small map. My entire empire was only about 200ly
by 100 ly, but assuming you can't be seen is wrong.

Also make a note in the cloaking section that if you give order to your
ships to transport, they are 100% visible in the next turn the
opposition sees. So you have to build a ship. Next turn transport up
what you want. Next turn head out cloaked in the direction you want.

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nospam wrote:
> In Tims doc files are written that Transporter make sensor noise, so
> increase the sensor image, so no wonder that the enemy can see you.
>
> But as FAIK the transporter make only sensor noise if you transport
> something to objects where you are not the owner, beaming to own
Bases
> or ships make no sensor noise.
>
> Bye-Bye JoSch.

And as a little addition, there might be a chance (maybe 1%) that
cloaking does fail, at least that was the believe of a few persons on
the newsgroup in ancient times...
Although it got never verified.

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"Nameless" <unknown_ai@web.de> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:1115908274.508316.103080@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...


> And as a little addition, there might be a chance (maybe 1%) that
> cloaking does fail, at least that was the believe of a few persons on
> the newsgroup in ancient times...
> Although it got never verified.

I rember a sim where over ten turns 100 Outrider weren't able to detect 100 Deth Specs at disctance of 7 lj.

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Wow, I assumed you could see 10-20% of my fleet, but I didn't realise
it was that bad.

When the Lizard player was making a lot of complaints earlier in the
game, we just thought he was being melodramatic, but does cloaking
still work?

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Gabor Törö schrieb:
> It was host 193 I used.
> 100 Outriders nearby (7 lj) 100 Deth Specs. Ten turns. None of the Outriders ever detected any Deth Spec.
> Of course theses Deth Specs haven't move. They only stayed at one point and did nothing.
>
> GFM GToeroe

Owner race of the Deth Specs (Birds or Stormer) ?
Owner race of the Outriders ?
Tested with some scanner ET ?

Bye-Bye JoSch.

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The goal is to prepare an experiment in a way that the set family of the events of the condition and decision are small enough to
formulate a probability of transition. This becomes easier the smaller the set family of the sets of the condition is.

And if I understand you right you rely with

"...And as a little addition, there might be a chance (maybe 1%) that
cloaking does fail, at least that was the believe of a few persons on
the newsgroup in ancient times...
Although it got never verified..."

on an inherently built in failure of the cloaking process itself which is independent from all external conditions as sensor
noise, device noise, tachyon emitters, speed, laser minefields, control damage, and so on.

So it is natural to start with the cloaking process itself and proove wether it has a failure rate on its own or not. First if
this is decided one have a chance to decide the influence of other sources because it is very difficult or impossible to resolve
the mixed failure sources in a finite time.

And only this was the goal of my sims. And in addtion I even omit a statement about what the results of my sim proove and what
not.

So I really do not understand why and what your are trying to reproach.

GFM GToeroe

"Nameless" <unknown_ai@web.de> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:1116343863.640669.69330@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Gabor Törö wrote:
> It was host 193 I used.
> 100 Outriders nearby (7 lj) 100 Deth Specs. Ten turns. None of the
Outriders
> ever detected any Deth Spec.
> Of course theses Deth Specs haven't move. They only stayed at one
point and
> did nothing.
>
> GFM GToeroe
>

Well since you did study physics, you should probably notice from just
viewing your own post (quoted above) what it does prove and what it
obviously does not prove.

As it is it just proves that under the exact conditions of your tests,
that is under the assumption that nothing has changed concerning it,
the cloaking ships cloak does not fail. Nothing more and nothing less.

A real proof would either need all the source code which is in any way
connected to cloaking and scanning or an extensive test of all possible
settings or a verification that this simple test is enough... As it is
none of it has been done.

And also a perfect test for 'real game' situations where nearly always
all ships are not moving etc. (and you probably recall that you did not
forget to turn on the scanners of the Outriders).

And then while not entirely connected to the above: In former times
when a ship did not have enough fuel to cloak before any transport did
happen was not cloaked that turn.

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Well you are assuming that the code is otherwise correct.
I am not.
And then if there would be a failure rate of cloaking - I would try to
have Tim change that, because...

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There is a known ally-bug involving the sharing of contact information which
allows you to see an unallied race's ships as unknown contacts at any
distance.

In a game i recently hosted, Borg and Scavs allied and could see robotic
ships at a distance of nearly 3000 lys. That game was zipped up and sent to
Tim for debugging.


<ross.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1116210960.090100.75380@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...

Gabor Törö wrote:
> "Nameless" <unknown_ai@web.de> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:1115908274.508316.103080@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> > And as a little addition, there might be a chance (maybe 1%) that
> > cloaking does fail, at least that was the believe of a few persons
on
> > the newsgroup in ancient times...
> > Although it got never verified.
>
> I rember a sim where over ten turns 100 Outrider weren't able to
detect 100 Deth Specs at disctance of 7 lj.

Well, I played the borg against the Manzikert's Bird empire and the
borg and stormer ally could see what ended up being around about 15-75%
of the bird's ships every turn. Manzikert did make a lot of noise at
one point and looked into the formula's of cloaking. He did change the
method, ensuring no transporting etc but it didn't make any difference,
we were able to see where his major fleets were and intercepted them
and killed them. We found about 15 dethspec's easily boarded and took
out each darkwing.