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Searching for Gaming/Budget System

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February 24, 2011 9:37:00 PM

Hi everyone,

I used the template for this thread, if additional infos are needed, just ask ;-)

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Approximate Purchase Date: next 3 to 6 weeks


Budget Range: about 600 to 800 Euros (here in Germany there are no real rebates)


System Usage from Most to Least Important: gaming, surfing the internet, watching movies, listening/watching webstreams


Parts Not Required: keyboard, mouse, monitor, speakers, OS, DVD-burner, HDD, case, fans


Preferred Website(s) for Parts: http://www.hoh.de/PC-Komponenten_c1.htm (sorry, german only)


Country of Origin: Germany ;-)


Parts Preferences: my mobos mostly came from ASUS, GPU is from MSI, as was my last one, LCD is Samsung, they rock!


Overclocking: No (parts should work stable and with good performance without tweaking)


SLI or Crossfire: No


Monitor Resolution: 1920x1200


Additional Comments: I would like a quiet PC


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Here are the parts I would like to use, if they are any good:

CPU:
Intel Core i5 2400 4x3.10 GHz So 1155 BOX
http://www.hoh.de/PC-Komponenten/CPU-/-Prozessor/Intel/...

OR

Intel Core i5 2500 4x3.30 GHz So 1155 BOX
http://www.hoh.de/PC-Komponenten/CPU-/-Prozessor/Bestse...

GPU:
Gainward GTX 560 Ti Phantom 1024MB GDDR5
http://www.hoh.de/PC-Komponenten/Grafikkarten/NVIDIA/PC...
(the reviews say, it is a very silent card, a little bit over middle-class, so should be fine for the next 2 to 3 years)

Power:
be quiet Straight Power E8 580W CM 80 silber ATX
http://www.hoh.de/PC-Komponenten/Netzteile/500-700-Watt...
(already have a bequiet, as the name suggests, they are very quiet and powerfull)

MoBO:
Asus P8P67 P67 Sockel 1155 ATX DDR3
http://www.hoh.de/PC-Komponenten/Mainboards/Intel/Socke...
(as mentioned, I already used ASUS for years, good quality, I don't need the deluxe edition of the board, the normal one is enough for my daily usage and for future upgrades [I think])

RAM:
Just an example:
Kingston 4GB Kit PC3-10667 DDR3-1333 CL7 XMP HyperX
http://www.hoh.de/PC-Komponenten/Arbeitsspeicher/Deskto...


Yeah, so, that's it.
Is this build any good? Is the PSU strong enough? I would like to use the system for the next 3 to 4 years without major changes (maybe a new GPU, but not much more).

Thanks for your help in advance!

Cheers,

djbuzzdee
February 24, 2011 9:51:58 PM

That's about $1,100 to me ... Sorry for the US links but I am too unfamiliar w/ German sites to be of any use.


Case - $60 - Antec 300 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
PSU - $65 - XFX 650 W PSU http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
MoBo - $395 - ASUS P8P67 Pro http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?Ite...
CPU - incl above - Intel Core i5-2500K http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
Cooler - $40 - Scythe SCMG 2100 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
TIM - $5 - Shin Etsu http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
RAM - $100 - (2 x 4GB) Corsair CAS 9 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
GFX - $250 - Asus GTX 560 Ti http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
GFX - Later - Same
HD - $65 - Spinpoint F3 1TB 7200 rpm http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
DVD Writer - $22 - Asus 24X DRW-24B3L w/ LS http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
OS - $100 - Win 7-64 Home Pre http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
Related resources
February 24, 2011 11:03:41 PM

You can save $100 by using an i5-750/60 CPU instead of the one you chose.

My i7-860 is about the SAME as the i5-750 when I disable hyperthreading (which I only benefit from for video transcoding). I don't have a single game that used 50% of my CPU. Not only would most games use under 30% of the i5-750 but it can also be overclocked by at least 30% if need be.

You can also save a little money by going 4GB instead of 8GB. The benefits of 8GB are very, very minimal. It also adds heat. 2GB vs 4GB vs 8GB has been EXTENSIVELY tested recently and no benefit was noted except for Photoshop in certain conditions and some slight reduction of loading time (10% at most).

Summary:
- get an i5-750
- get a $150 1156 motherboard
- I AGREE with the GTX 560 Ti
- consider 4GB of RAM only
- I AGREE with the Antec 300 case (bought my dad one.)
February 24, 2011 11:10:56 PM

At 800 euros, you can do MUCH better than a 5770. Stick with the GTX 560 Ti or better (I'd go for better). Skimp where you can to get good graphics and a solid PSU.
February 24, 2011 11:15:23 PM

photonboy said:
You can save $100 by using an i5-750/60 CPU instead of the one you chose.

My i7-860 is about the SAME as the i5-750 when I disable hyperthreading (which I only benefit from for video transcoding). I don't have a single game that used 50% of my CPU. Not only would most games use under 30% of the i5-750 but it can also be overclocked by at least 30% if need be.

You can also save a little money by going 4GB instead of 8GB. The benefits of 8GB are very, very minimal. It also adds heat. 2GB vs 4GB vs 8GB has been EXTENSIVELY tested recently and no benefit was noted except for Photoshop in certain conditions and some slight reduction of loading time (10% at most).

Summary:
- get an i5-750
- get a $150 1156 motherboard
- I AGREE with the GTX 560 Ti
- consider 4GB of RAM only
- I AGREE with the Antec 300 case (bought my dad one.)

The Sandy Bridge i5 destroys the i5-760 and will add two years the the lifespan for only a $30 or so difference on Newegg.

Get a $150 1155 motherboard. Get 8GB of RAM if and only if it does not cause you to get a worse CPU, graphics, or PSU. Because running 8GB will be handy in two years and you won't want to have to use 4 sticks to do it.

I'd get a bigger case with better airflow, but I live in the tropics. The Antec 300 is great.
February 24, 2011 11:15:52 PM

"They just lowered the price on a 1GB GDDR5 5770 to $99 USD. Take a look... "

You always design a gaming system around the GRAPHICS. It makes no sense to buy a $300 CPU and a $100 Graphics card. It's about BALANCE.

The best bang for $400 would be a $250 graphics card and $150 CPU. I currently recommend the combo of i5-750/60 and GTX 560 Ti.

It's amazing how much $100 difference makes when you compare a $100 to $200 graphics card in a system.
February 24, 2011 11:28:46 PM

Okay, I spent some time decoding the German site. I normally recommend budget gaming builds under $400, so this gives me some flexibility.

Firstly, start with a good motherboard. You can upgrade other components easily, but the motherboard makes all the difference, especially if you want to overclock. With this motherboard, overclocking is easy and I've used one to get these cpu's to over 4.1Ghz.
http://www.hoh.de/PC-Komponenten/Mainboards/AMD/Sockel-...

Secondly, this cpu will give you 4 cores and an unlocked multiplier so all you have to do is increase the multiplier to 20x and bump the voltage a little and you got 4.0Ghz. Later, you can just pop in a 6 core.
http://www.hoh.de/PC-Komponenten/CPU-/-Prozessor/AMD/So...

Ram is essential if you want to get stable performance and fast response. Kingston is still king when it comes to reliability. I normally recommend OCZ for AMD systems, but Kingston Hyper X ram works well.
http://www.hoh.de/PC-Komponenten/Arbeitsspeicher/Deskto...

For gaming, you must have good graphics card. XFX and Sapphire make great cards. This card is 50% faster than mine and mine still runs most every game in full HD 1920x1080 at max settings. You can upgrade later, but this card will do about everything you need.
http://www.hoh.de/PC-Komponenten/Grafikkarten/ATI/PCIe/...

Choose whatever DVD burner you like. If you have the extra cash get an SSD as this will make this system crazy fast. The greatest bottleneck in any good system is the hard drive. With the above components plus drives, you're still under 500 euros.

Then, choose whatever case or psu you prefer. You can always purchase a nicer case later, but for now go for the best performance you can afford. If in your shoes, I'd buy this one as it comes with multiple fans for a great price.
http://www.hoh.de/PC-Komponenten/Gehaeuse/Computergehae...

Name brand PSU's are highly overrated in my opinion. Of the 20+ systems I've build in the last few years, even the least expensive psu has never failed. However, if you're bent on a "name brand" psu stick with Antec or Corsair. This is fine for what anyone needs unless you plan on running multiple GPUs.
http://www.hoh.de/PC-Komponenten/Netzteile/400-500-Watt...
February 25, 2011 1:48:16 AM

Don't get the i5-760 because the i5-2500K is only $30 more. Get the i5-2300 for the same price as the 760 if the $30 matters. They both use $150 motherboards.

That is---unless you guys can give me a reason that the i5-760 is better.

Getting the 5770 would be the worst mistake you could make. You should get a Phenom II x2 or Athlon II x3 before a 5770. Either i5 can handle dual GTX 570's. The Sandy Bridge can handle GTX 580's in SLI. I think you should get the best graphics you can afford in this order. 5870< GTX 560 Ti < 6950 2GB < GTX 570 ~ 6970.

If you were in the U.S., there's a Newegg deal for the 5870 for $179 right now. Otherwise, the 6950 2GB can be a great deal because it unlocks to a 6970.
February 25, 2011 7:42:00 AM

You do not plan on over clocking, you want a single card set up ja ? Then this down below is what you want. 1155 mother boards like low voltage RAM like this 1.5v G.Skill down below. That psu will push that card with no problem, and that mother board allows you to add more RAM later on if you so choose.

There you go... :) 

http://www.hoh.de/PC-Komponenten/Netzteile/500-700-Watt... 59,90 €
Antec High Current Gamer HCG-520 520W 80+ Bronze

http://www.hoh.de/PC-Komponenten/Mainboards/Intel/Socke... 84,90 €
ASRock H67M-GE H67 Sockel 1155 mATX DDR3

http://www.hoh.de/PC-Komponenten/CPU-/-Prozessor/Bestse... 181,75 €
Intel Core i5 2500 4x3.30 GHz So 1155 BOX

http://www.hoh.de/PC-Komponenten/Arbeitsspeicher/Deskto... 41,90 €
G.Skill 4GB KIT RipJaws PC3-10667 DDR3-1333 CL9 RL

http://www.hoh.de/PC-Komponenten/Grafikkarten/NVIDIA/PC... 214,90 € i
Gigabyte GTX 560 Ti OC 1024MB GDDR5

February 25, 2011 7:47:47 AM

Hello everyone,

thanks for the quick answers, they are much appreciated!

To clear things up:
The system is planned to last at least 2 to 4 years without major changes.
That's why I wanted to invest a little bit more.
But on the other hand I don't want to build a high-end-system (I simply don't need one).

What I get out of this thread is, that an i5 Sandy Bridge is a good choice, I will propably stick to the 2500 version, not the 2500k, because I don't want to overclock anything (not the cpu and definitely not the GPU).
I will choose Intel because my old c2d is 4 years old and still does most of the needed tasks reasonably fast. I hope the new CPU will do the same.

PSU is a little unclear to me. Most people tell me, my old PSU (450Watt bequiet) will be too weak for a new system. That's why I chose a 580 watt PSU. Will this be enough for the planned system?

And at last, the GPU: I understand you guys, when you say, that one needs a good graphicscard if one wants to play games for the next 2 years or so. But I always want a relatively quiet computer. And for that I would be ready to sacrifice a little bit of graphics power. The last thing I want is a helicopter starting in my case, any time I start a game.
And as I said, it is clear to me, that maybe I will have to get a new GPU in 2 years, but until then, is the GTX 560 Ti good enough?

Oh, and by the way, what is wrong with the choice of my mobo? Isn't Asus any good? Or are they simply not as known in the US? ;) 

Thanks again for your help, it would be nice, if you could answer my questions.

Cheers,

djbuzzdee
February 25, 2011 7:58:43 AM

djbuzzdee said:
Hello everyone,

thanks for the quick answers, they are much appreciated!

To clear things up:
The system is planned to last at least 2 to 4 years without major changes.
That's why I wanted to invest a little bit more.
But on the other hand I don't want to build a high-end-system (I simply don't need one).

What I get out of this thread is, that an i5 Sandy Bridge is a good choice, I will propably stick to the 2500 version, not the 2500k, because I don't want to overclock anything (not the cpu and definitely not the GPU).
I will choose Intel because my old c2d is 4 years old and still does most of the needed tasks reasonably fast. I hope the new CPU will do the same.

PSU is a little unclear to me. Most people tell me, my old PSU (450Watt bequiet) will be too weak for a new system. That's why I chose a 580 watt PSU. Will this be enough for the planned system?

And at last, the GPU: I understand you guys, when you say, that one needs a good graphicscard if one wants to play games for the next 2 years or so. But I always want a relatively quiet computer. And for that I would be ready to sacrifice a little bit of graphics power. The last thing I want is a helicopter starting in my case, any time I start a game.
And as I said, it is clear to me, that maybe I will have to get a new GPU in 2 years, but until then, is the GTX 560 Ti good enough?

Oh, and by the way, what is wrong with the choice of my mobo? Isn't Asus any good? Or are they simply not as known in the US? ;) 

Thanks again for your help, it would be nice, if you could answer my questions.

Cheers,

djbuzzdee

P67 mother boards are for over clocking (2600K, 2500K), the H57 boards are not, and they cost less :) 

Here is the Asus version of that H57 mobo...I just posted the Asrock but the Asus is as good as gold :) 

http://www.hoh.de/PC-Komponenten/Mainboards/Intel/Socke... 89,90 €
Asus P8H67-M H67 Sockel 1155 mATX DDR3

This psu down below will allow you to add any card you choose in the future and it's better quality than that "be quite" psu you had up above.

http://www.hoh.de/PC-Komponenten/Netzteile/500-700-Watt... 82,90 €
SilverStone Strider Plus ST60F-P 600W 80+ Bronze

Also that Gigabyte 560 ti I posted is factory over clocked and has gotten great reviews. It's a good card.
February 25, 2011 8:14:23 AM

Hey Why_Me,

Quote:
You do not plan on over clocking, you want a single card set up ja ?


That's exactly what I wanted to do, yes!

Quote:
ASRock H67M-GE H67 Sockel 1155 mATX DDR3


Never used an ASRock-Board before, they are significantly cheaper than ASUS. Why is that? I mean, of course I don't want to pay too much for hardware, but I am always a little bit suspicious, if something is much cheaper than another thing but offers the same features or even more. The ASRock has onboard external VGA-connectors which my ASUS board doesn't have.
I just don't want to save at the wrong place and then regret it in the future.

Other than that, thank your for your advice, your build is even a little bit cheaper than mine, which is not a bad thing ;) 

Cheers,

djbuzzdee
February 25, 2011 8:20:13 AM

djbuzzdee said:
Hey Why_Me,

Quote:
You do not plan on over clocking, you want a single card set up ja ?


That's exactly what I wanted to do, yes!

Quote:
ASRock H67M-GE H67 Sockel 1155 mATX DDR3


Never used an ASRock-Board before, they are significantly cheaper than ASUS. Why is that? I mean, of course I don't want to pay too much for hardware, but I am always a little bit suspicious, if something is much cheaper than another thing but offers the same features or even more. The ASRock has onboard external VGA-connectors which my ASUS board doesn't have.
I just don't want to save at the wrong place and then regret it in the future.

Other than that, thank your for your advice, your build is even a little bit cheaper than mine, which is not a bad thing ;) 

Cheers,

djbuzzdee

Asrock is a subsidary of Asustek... Asus owns 40% stock in Asrock. But that Asus mobo I posted right up above is a good one. I would go to that site and look at all the Asus H57 motherboards and get the one that you like. I believe Asus makes 3 - 4 H57 mother boards.
February 25, 2011 8:20:31 AM

I vote for P67 and ASRock.

ASRock is an excellent brand, and a subsidiary or something more complicated, of ASUS, which adds to its credibility.
February 25, 2011 8:22:22 AM

Hey Why_Me,

Quote:
This psu down below will allow you to add any card you choose in the future and it's better quality than that "be quite" psu you had up above.

Really? Then I didn't understand the certificate-system for PSUs. I thought a "80+ Silver"-PSU (the bequiet) is better in quality than a "80+ Bronze"-PSU in terms of stable power supply and so on. I read a test about the bequiet PSU where they wrote that it was nearly as good as a "80+ Gold"-PSU, that's why I have chosen it.

Quote:
P67 mother boards are for over clocking (2600K, 2500K), the H57 boards are not, and they cost less :) 

Ah, then H67 it is. Thanks!

Quote:
Also that Gigabyte 560 ti I posted is factory over clocked and has gotten great reviews. It's a good card.

Then I will study the reviews I guess ;) 

Thanks again for your help, it is much appreciated!

Cheers,

djbuzzdee
February 25, 2011 8:26:08 AM

H67--not H57, right? I just don't want to confuse anyone.
February 25, 2011 8:43:51 AM

dalauder said:
H67--not H57, right? I just don't want to confuse anyone.

I had a 1156 flashback :pt1cable: 
February 25, 2011 11:01:26 AM

Better get rid of amnesia then :) 
February 25, 2011 11:11:05 AM

In a year or two you'll wish you picked the P67 and i5-2500K because you'll get an extra 35% (or more likely over 50%) performance out of an OC'd version.

The 80+ rating only refers to efficiency (1000W in, greater than 800W out). The issue here is the brand. Bequiet is not a known brand and good brands have gained reputations by having much lower failure rates, ALWAYS meeting specs on output rating, voltage & current fluctuation, & efficiency at or beyond required temps.

So you'll always get a Corsair, Antec, Seasonic, Silverstone, or XFX PSU recommendation from these forums. There's a couple other great brands out there (like PC Power & Cooling or FSP Group), but they tend to cost more. Other brands that are decent tend to have hit or miss products where some are great and others are crap (OCZ, Thermaltake).
February 25, 2011 8:32:06 PM

Maybe someone here can help me out:

Why is it, that only the H67 boards have external monitor connectors (HDMI, VGA etc.).
The more expensive P67-boards don't have it. I mean, I understand, that there will always be an external GPU on those boards, but even so, when this GPU breaks, you could at least use your PC with the build in graphicschip of the sandy bridge CPU.

That would be a selling point to me, but it seems it is no option with the P67 boards.

But how do you use the build in "graphics card" of the i5 if you don't have an external connector?

Thanks again for your help!

Quote:
In a year or two you'll wish you picked the P67 and i5-2500K because you'll get an extra 35% (or more likely over 50%) performance out of an OC'd version.

In all my years that I build and use PCs I never used any OC-features. I know, today it is easier than ever to oc with software provided by the manufacturers. But it was never an option for me.
And as far as I understand, the H67 boards support the 2500K processors, so they should at least support the change of the multiplier, so that would at least leave me the option of OC. As far as I can see, this would be a good compromise (2500K plus H67 board).
Please correct me, if I understood something wrong here

Thanks again and have a nice evening!

Cheers,

djbuzzdee
February 28, 2011 4:50:19 AM

Internal graphics are for cheap lousy computers. Any decent computer has a decent graphics card (they only cost $40 to beat integrated by a longshot). So any decent motherboard doesn't have video out. That's the thinking behind P67.

CORRECTION: Internal graphics are for computers that won't use discrete graphics. Discrete graphics are necessary for gaming, certain video manipulation, CAD work, 3D modeling, orarchitecture or similar design work.
February 28, 2011 7:43:51 AM

dalauder said:
Internal graphics are for cheap lousy computers. Any decent computer has a decent graphics card (they only cost $40 to beat integrated by a longshot). So any decent motherboard doesn't have video out. That's the thinking behind P67.

CORRECTION: Internal graphics are for computers that won't use discrete graphics. Discrete graphics are necessary for gaming, certain video manipulation, CAD work, 3D modeling, orarchitecture or similar design work.


Hey dalauder,

don't get me wrong, it was never my intention of using the onboard graphics solution for regular usage. But in case of a GPU failure an external connector is a "nice to have". I just don't see, why the manufacturer is banning this feature completely from the P-series even so they are more expensive. But I guess, in the end, it doesn't matter, other features are more important.

And of course you are right that my planned computer will almost always use discrete graphics.

Thanks anyways for your insights!

Cheers,

djbuzzdee
February 28, 2011 1:07:33 PM

djbuzzdee said:
Hey dalauder,

don't get me wrong, it was never my intention of using the onboard graphics solution for regular usage. But in case of a GPU failure an external connector is a "nice to have". I just don't see, why the manufacturer is banning this feature completely from the P-series even so they are more expensive. But I guess, in the end, it doesn't matter, other features are more important.

And of course you are right that my planned computer will almost always use discrete graphics.

Thanks anyways for your insights!

Cheers,

djbuzzdee

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Intel-s-First-Z68-Mother... <----- Z68 Motherboard
March 1, 2011 1:59:50 AM

Thanks for the link. I hadn't realized that P67 boards were incapable of using Sandy Bridge's video transcoding. I assumed they'd be able to use it, but must output video to a discrete card. That seems like a terrible flaw in P67.

I still don't get why they'd waste $3 on parts to include integrated graphics outputs though. It constantly probably wastes 3W too. I guess GPU's do burn out and not everyone has a couple extra on hand to replace them with.
!