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V.card change - Is my 450W enough?

Last response: in Components
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May 28, 2011 3:57:58 PM



prices are in NIS so dont get freaky about it. :) 

this is a 3yold computer.

8800GT is damaged and its been dying slowly for over few months.
this might be his last few weeks and i need to replace it with a new v.card.

i was thinking about GTX 460.
Gigabyte GeForce GTX 460 1GB GDDR5 PCI-e OC Model N460OC1GI

but, before buying it i need to verify i will not have a bottleneck.

manufacture site says 500W recommanded.
http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=...

while, Bit-Tech says 450W recommanded.
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/graphics/2010/07/12/nv...

Take a look in the picture i attached and you'll see that i have 450W ups.
In addition to what u can see on the picture i will remind you that Chakra case has a big fan 800rpm 25cm on the side.
A small front fan size 80.
A normal back fan size 120.
and i would like to add another front 120 fan.
my E8400 is oc'ed from 3.0 ghz to 3.5 ghz.

one last thing, the version of 8800GT that i have is Innovision which is OC'ed by factory, so it might take more then the normal Watt of a 8800GT.

you may recommand me on getting another v.card im not "locked" on the gtx460.
Thank you in advanced for you time to read, and replay.

More about : card change 450w

a b ) Power supply
May 28, 2011 4:50:55 PM

I think you'll be all right. I like my 460: it's the EVGA base model, and I've overclocked it to the level of the EVGA Superclocked with excellent results.
By "bottleneck," I assume you're referring to power. Normally, it would mean slow components bogging the system down.
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a b ) Power supply
May 28, 2011 5:31:05 PM

No it wouldnt be enough with a quite old psu.I consider going for a less power hungry gpu.If not you can of course upgrade the psu.
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Related resources
May 28, 2011 8:33:08 PM

can you recommand me on a less hungry gpu card that still has good results?

and... 1 saying yes other say no. what do i do about it? :) 
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a c 275 ) Power supply
May 28, 2011 8:36:51 PM

I'd be suspicious of a Thermaltake TR2 even supplying the rated 470W output.
I'll base that on the many reviews i've read on TR2 series psu's.
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a b ) Power supply
May 28, 2011 8:41:25 PM

i would only recommend the 5670.I cant even recommend the 5770
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May 28, 2011 9:03:23 PM

davcon said:
I'd be suspicious of a Thermaltake TR2 even supplying the rated 470W output.
I'll base that on the many reviews i've read on TR2 series psu's.

I don't fully understand, can u please explain it again?
Are you saying my PSU is too weak?
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a c 275 ) Power supply
May 28, 2011 9:11:17 PM

kobikobi said:
I don't fully understand, can u please explain it again?
Are you saying my PSU is too weak?

Depends on what gpu you choose.
Thermaltake TR2 psu's are notorious for mislabelling the units actual wattage.
Case in point.
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Thermaltake-TR2-...
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a c 1203 ) Power supply
May 28, 2011 10:01:24 PM

For a single card GeForce GTX 460 system a power supply with 450 Watts or greater with a minimum of 24 Amps or greater on the combined +12 volt rails and at least two 6-pin PCI Express Supplementary Power Connectors is recommended.

I highly doubt that the Thermaltake PurePower TR2 Series 470W (W0089) meets the minimum of 24 Amps or greater on the combined +12 volt rails requirement. My guess is that it is less than 22 Amps. It doesn't have two 6-pin PCI Express Supplementary Power Connectors so that tells me that the +12 Volt rail is weak. This power supply's design is based on an obsolete design whose output is heavily biased towards the +3.3 Volt and +5 Volt rails. It was adequate when the original Pentium 4 was introduced but is totally inadequate for any modern system with a decent discrete graphics card.

If you're intent on sticking with an nVIDIA GPU your power supply may be able to handle a GeForce GTX 550 Ti or a GeForce GTS 450.
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a c 275 ) Power supply
May 29, 2011 1:39:34 AM

Yep dump the psu! it's indeed a very old inefficient design(ATX 12V 2.0 ) = no Active PFC ,under 80% efficiency,470W Peak Power.=NOT continuous power.
12V rail is 15A.
http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/Product.aspx?S=1172&ID=15...
It's really quite unsuitable for a modern rig with a decent gpu.
You'll be limited to low power gpu's.
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a c 1203 ) Power supply
May 29, 2011 7:31:13 AM

kobikobi said:
http://www.antec.outervision.com/PSUEngine
According to this calculator my system should be fine.. unless i filled in some incorrect info and please do tell me if i did.

Have a look please.
]http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/2876/calcr.th.png

Thank you, once again.

That is an Antec power supply calculator you used.

If you would have used that calculator to purchase an Antec power supply unit you wouldn't be having the problem you're having now. Instead you used the Antec calculator's value to purchase an obsolete Thermaltake power supply unit.

Antec power supply units are of modern design and have the DC outputs properly biased towards the +12 Volt rails as required for modern systems.
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May 29, 2011 9:45:24 AM

Ok my bad :)  Sorry.

Gigabyte GeForce GTX 460 1GB GDDR5 PCI-e OC Model N460OC1GI
Gigabyte Radeon HD 6850 1GB GDDR5 PCI-e OC Model R685OC1GD
Gigabyte Radeon HD 5850 1GB GDDR5 PCI-e OC Model R585OC1GD

Which one do you think is the best and why?
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a b ) Power supply
May 29, 2011 10:10:11 AM

Again, buy a decent 550w - 600w (Antec, Corsair, XFX) PSU first, then consider what GPU to buy. A decnet PSU must always take priority, thats of course assuming you wish to take care of your components.
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a c 243 ) Power supply
May 29, 2011 11:06:25 AM

ko888 said:
That is an Antec power supply calculator you used.

If you would have used that calculator to purchase an Antec power supply unit you wouldn't be having the problem you're having now. Instead you used the Antec calculator's value to purchase an obsolete Thermaltake power supply unit.

Antec power supply units are of modern design and have the DC outputs properly biased towards the +12 Volt rails as required for modern systems.

:lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol: 
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a c 1203 ) Power supply
May 29, 2011 6:07:31 PM

kobikobi said:
Ok my bad :)  Sorry.

Gigabyte GeForce GTX 460 1GB GDDR5 PCI-e OC Model N460OC1GI
Gigabyte Radeon HD 6850 1GB GDDR5 PCI-e OC Model R685OC1GD
Gigabyte Radeon HD 5850 1GB GDDR5 PCI-e OC Model R585OC1GD

Which one do you think is the best and why?

Your Thermaltake PurePower TR2 Series 470W (W0089) can't properly power a system with any of those three graphics cards.

The Radeon HD 6850, which draws the least maximum power (127 Watts) of the three cards, requires at least 25 Amps on the combined +12 Volt rails. Your Thermaltake power supply isn't able to produce the 25 Amps of output current on its +12 Volt rail.
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a b ) Power supply
May 30, 2011 3:11:09 AM

^ utter bullcrap. Im currently using that exact psu for the past 4 years with a highly overclocked 8800gts which draws more power than a 6850. I plan on getting a 6850 possibly in the near future with this psu. A gtx460 or 5850 is another story, they would be approaching the limits of the PSU. Also despite particular reviews of the tr2's you all have to realise that not all TR2's are built on the same design or even made by the same manufacturer. Im not trying to suggest in any way that it is the best PSU ever, but I know first hand that particular PSU in question is ok. Your also failing to see that it has 2 x 12v rails, one 14A one 15A, thats 348w combined.
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a c 1203 ) Power supply
May 30, 2011 3:51:17 AM

iam2thecrowe said:
Your also failing to see that it has 2 x 12v rails, one 14A one 15A, thats 348w combined.

You're making the classic noob mistake assuming that you can just add the two current limit values together to arrive at the actual combined output current rating of the +12 Volt rails.

Do you have proof that the Thermaltake PurePower TR2 (W0089) combined +12 Volt rails are actually able to provide up to 29 Amps as you claim? Is it actually shown on the label affixed to the power supply unit? Thermaltake doesn't even show the combined +12 Volt rails output current rating or wattage in the manual for the Thermaltake PurePower TR2 (W0089).
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a b ) Power supply
May 30, 2011 11:26:36 AM

it doesnt need to. it shows a max combined rating for the 3.3 and 5v which is 220w. If it doesnt say max combined for the 12v rails I would assume its just the 348w, which makes sense. Either way I know first hand it will handle a 6850, as I said before Im currently running a GPU that consumes more power than a 6850 and its overclocked to add to that. oh, and i have just looked at MY PSU label and its actually a w0090, which does have the same specs > here http://www.thermaltake.com.au/Products/PowerSupply/W009... It does show a graph at the bottom with fan speed vs load, assuming they actually tested that they must have tested it at 100% load.
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May 31, 2011 2:41:45 PM

so... ill just get the 460gtx and see what happens..... lots of people told me that shouldn't be any problem.
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a b ) Power supply
June 1, 2011 2:44:00 AM

kobikobi said:
so... ill just get the 460gtx and see what happens..... lots of people told me that shouldn't be any problem.

just get the 6850, it uses less power, the gtx460 would be pushing borderline for that psu.
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June 2, 2011 6:12:03 AM

iam2thecrowe said:
^ utter bullcrap. Im currently using that exact psu for the past 4 years with a highly overclocked 8800gts which draws more power than a 6850. I plan on getting a 6850 possibly in the near future with this psu. A gtx460 or 5850 is another story, they would be approaching the limits of the PSU. Also despite particular reviews of the tr2's you all have to realise that not all TR2's are built on the same design or even made by the same manufacturer. Im not trying to suggest in any way that it is the best PSU ever, but I know first hand that particular PSU in question is ok. Your also failing to see that it has 2 x 12v rails, one 14A one 15A, thats 348w combined.



CRAP!! tt tr2 470W are you nuts?
tr2 470w will NOT power any of those card when the graphics card starts rendering 100% load clown!
the power supply will only be stable when the gpu is or under 50% load!!
yes it has 15amp and 14amp on 12v1 and 12v2 but a total of 29amp? thats not the way it is, adding it up its not that simple,
it has 70% efficiency very low and a 30% wasted energy! so how can you say it has a total 29amp and true 470watts??LOL
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June 2, 2011 12:52:29 PM

i will update. once i install the 460GTX . a week or two.
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June 3, 2011 8:51:54 PM

oby20 said:
CRAP!! tt tr2 470W are you nuts?
tr2 470w will NOT power any of those card when the graphics card starts rendering 100% load clown!
the power supply will only be stable when the gpu is or under 50% load!!
yes it has 15amp and 14amp on 12v1 and 12v2 but a total of 29amp? thats not the way it is, adding it up its not that simple,
it has 70% efficiency very low and a 30% wasted energy! so how can you say it has a total 29amp and true 470watts??LOL



ok.. new card recommendations 350W .
have a look.........
it says on the BOX itself.

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a c 1203 ) Power supply
June 3, 2011 9:03:32 PM

kobikobi said:
ok.. new card recommendations 350W .
have a look.........
it says on the BOX itself.

Which card is that? Is it the Calibre GeForce GTX460 (X460G)?

If it is, that 350W power supply better have a minimum +12V current rating of 24A (288W) or greater and have at least two 6-pin PCI Express Supplementary Power Connectors.
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June 4, 2011 2:43:38 AM

ko888 said:
Which card is that? Is it the Calibre GeForce GTX460 (X460G)?

If it is, that 350W power supply better have a minimum +12V current rating of 24A (288W) or greater and have at least two 6-pin PCI Express Supplementary Power Connectors.

say hi to tech.



i just connected 2 of the 4-pin and i could have total of 2 6-pin pci to connect the card.

and ofcurse....
it says in the picture.. "Calibre" while i stated i bought the 460GTX .. there are no more options.
includes my older posts links...

http://www.pakgamers.com/forums/f111/sparkle-calibre-ge...
http://www.calibrestyle.com.tw/productDetail.asp?id=39
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a c 1203 ) Power supply
June 4, 2011 3:03:51 AM

From reading a test review of the Sparkle Calibre GeForce GTX460 (X460G) I saw that it consumes up to 20 Watts more than a reference design GeForce GTX460 because of its factory overclock.

Molex to 6-pin PCIe adapter cables have been around for a few years and are usually included with some graphics cards. Leaving them out of the package on cards that require PCIe supplementary power is just a cost cutting/profit margin increasing measure.

When a 470 Watt power supply like yours has only one 6-pin PCI Express power connector that tells me that they were trying to increase their profit margin by excluding an extra PCI Express power connector or they were thinking that their power supply has +12 Volt rail(s) that are too weak to support the second connector.
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June 4, 2011 3:29:02 AM

ko888 said:
From reading a test review of the Sparkle Calibre GeForce GTX460 (X460G) I saw that it consumes up to 20 Watts more than a reference design GeForce GTX460 because of its factory overclock.

Molex to 6-pin PCIe adapter cables have been around for a few years and are usually included with some graphics cards. Leaving them out of the package on cards that require PCIe supplementary power is just a cost cutting/profit margin increasing measure.

When a 470 Watt power supply like yours has only one 6-pin PCI Express power connector that tells me that they were trying to increase their profit margin by excluding an extra PCI Express power connector or they were thinking that their power supply has +12 Volt rail(s) that are too weak to support the second connector.


http://www.pakgamers.com/forums/f111/sparkle-calibre-ge...

from this review u can see that with the card there are 2 connectors of PCI-e. just incase.. that u dont have any.
even old 350W psu could run this card.

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June 5, 2011 9:11:48 AM

Quote:
^ i dont understand, your telling me that it cant handle my current setup?.....when obviously its been working fine for over 4 years????? Why would I lie about that? and the card im recommending, the 6850, uses less power than my current card. http://www.guru3d.com/article/radeon-hd-6850-6870-revie... < based on that its 278w at full load, from the wall socket which is no where near the limitations of the psu. I dont believe your "buddy" has exactly the same psu as I do, unless its faulty, because i know from first hand experience that the PSU I am using is runnign 1000% fine


yes he has the same psu! he consulted me few months ago, we checked his setup from memory to main board to psu, from what keeps his pc restarting, he has thermaltake tr2 470w, it was a newly built setup, his setup was fine for a month, until he change his video card to nvidia gts 450, before he was using the old videocard from his old pentium dualcore, it was an nvidia 9800gt, then he bought a new vcard the gts450 then it kept restarting 2-3times in 3hours. we thought it was the new video card, we tested his new videocard to my setup and work fine. then we checked the memory modules and it was fine, until we decided it might be the psu, he gambled buying a new one even though he arent sure if its psu, i cant remember what he bought but it was also a thermaltake and its 600watts, then it went fine, thats my experience and that was my reason i am telling that this psu cannot work fine with the vcards that was mentioned, i am not telling the psu is not good. it was a very decent psu but i dont agree that it can handle those vcards that was mentioned, based on my experience..

his setup

intel core2 extreme qx9775
asus mobo
4gig ram
nvidia gts 450
seagate barracuda sata
thermaltake tr2 470w-(changed to some thermaltake 600w)
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June 5, 2011 9:35:36 AM

Dont get ur head busted......
its quite simple that ur current psu is not enuf for gtx 460
i would recommend atleast a cooler master silent pro gold 600W or
a XFX core edition pro 650W
or u can shift to ati 6850 or ati 6870 thats gonna meet ur requirements pretty enuf :D  :D 
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June 5, 2011 8:30:20 PM

rko_gmr said:
Dont get ur head busted......
its quite simple that ur current psu is not enuf for gtx 460
i would recommend atleast a cooler master silent pro gold 600W or
a XFX core edition pro 650W
or u can shift to ati 6850 or ati 6870 thats gonna meet ur requirements pretty enuf :D  :D 


u say what? did u even read?



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Best solution

a b ) Power supply
June 6, 2011 1:10:11 AM

so it works. good to hear. Pick a best answer so we can close the thread and people that still dont belive the power supply is not good enough to run a gtx460 can now stop posting incorrect information with no backup as to how they came to that conclusion (with the exception of oby20 who had reason to believe the PSU is no good from experience, but it may have just been a faulty PSU as its an isolated case)
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June 6, 2011 12:17:57 PM

Best answer selected by kobikobi.
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June 6, 2011 12:18:49 PM

done bud. i can't select my own.. and since you already summed it all up.. You'r the winner.
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