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Money from natives

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Anonymous
May 29, 2005 8:21:45 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

I have a planet with 202 211 avian in my base with 80 happiness
I have 667 colonist
I am the Rebel

I am making 21$ from taxes.


I have seen a 1 000 000 humanoid in a fed base making 38$ from base

the fed base had 40 colonist.


Do we need more colonist to make the full $ the natives can pay ? (like in
vgap 3).
if yes how much ?

I read all about the natives on Tim site, I know some pay 25% some 100% some
over 100%.

But what is the formula ?

What is the key level of happiness for natives ? (for taxes)


So far,
I find all the natives useful, but not the ones making only money.

Maybe I'm missing something.

Also On my rebel hw, I will have all the natives next turn (except the
chupanoid).
It hard to say what part of the taxes are from my colonist and what part are
from the natives.

I would like one extra line in the client with Native Taxes. and a tad to
open a new window with all the detail of the taxes for all the natives type
on the base.

Lord Lancelot

More about : money natives

Anonymous
May 29, 2005 4:21:42 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

It is said that one need 1M colonists to collect the full money from the natives.
The rest I'm just simming...please hold the line...

GFM GToeroe

"Lord Lancelot" <lordlancelot@Nospamthankyou.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:p Yeme.6$Ap1.3272@news20.bellglobal.com...
> I have a planet with 202 211 avian in my base with 80 happiness
> I have 667 colonist
> I am the Rebel
>
> I am making 21$ from taxes.
>
>
> I have seen a 1 000 000 humanoid in a fed base making 38$ from base
>
> the fed base had 40 colonist.
>
>
> Do we need more colonist to make the full $ the natives can pay ? (like in
> vgap 3).
> if yes how much ?
>
> I read all about the natives on Tim site, I know some pay 25% some 100% some
> over 100%.
>
> But what is the formula ?
>
> What is the key level of happiness for natives ? (for taxes)
>
>
> So far,
> I find all the natives useful, but not the ones making only money.
>
> Maybe I'm missing something.
>
> Also On my rebel hw, I will have all the natives next turn (except the
> chupanoid).
> It hard to say what part of the taxes are from my colonist and what part are
> from the natives.
>
> I would like one extra line in the client with Native Taxes. and a tad to
> open a new window with all the detail of the taxes for all the natives type
> on the base.
>
> Lord Lancelot
>
>
Anonymous
May 30, 2005 12:07:51 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Saarlandoutpost dot de and there clausimu will tell you the formulas.

OH NO, THIS "COULD" BE OUTDATED.... ups I forgot, sorry. I´ll copy and paste
it for you:

Humanoid 1 x
Bovinoid 2 x
Reptilian 0,25 x
Avian 2 x
Amorphous 0 x
Insectoid 3 x
Amphibian 1 x
Ghipsoldal 0,1 x
Siliconoid 0,08 x
Chupanoid 0 x


Greetings
Sebastian

PS:

> So far,
> I find all the natives useful, but not the ones making only money.
>
> Maybe I'm missing something.

Youd do: Money is always usefull. Eve catched 1M insectoids and earnd money
from them? Or ever send a native pod with 100 000bugs to an enfocer world?
Ever got 100 000 Humans assimilatet by a borg king? Ever got 30 contra per
100 000 Avians as Scavanger?

Everything but far from useless.
Related resources
May 30, 2005 11:33:29 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

As long as players are willing to support his attitude, there is no
chance we will see any change. Therefeore I have stopped answering his
questions!
Anonymous
May 30, 2005 2:19:23 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Well, this is only the half story...

Here is at least a piece of the other half:

I've never payed attention to this as I've never got meaningful tax income until my actual game. So the happiness also is an
deciding key...tax income from natives should therefore also go up with the happiness and it should continue in going up even
after a level of 100. So happiness of bugs for example is a key for Bots and Rebels should know that...

I bet here are enough who could give you the complete formula immediately (me not as I really have to work it out with sims). If
not then wait on the results of my sim if it is again so the I have to discover the cycle again although it is already there...

May the force be with you! Have a nice day and a successful turn! Peace and a prosper live!

GFM GToeroe

"Sebastian" <Sebastian@nospam.nospam> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:3fueocF9p57iU2@news.dfncis.de...
> Saarlandoutpost dot de and there clausimu will tell you the formulas.
>
> OH NO, THIS "COULD" BE OUTDATED.... ups I forgot, sorry. I´ll copy and paste
> it for you:
>
> Humanoid 1 x
> Bovinoid 2 x
> Reptilian 0,25 x
> Avian 2 x
> Amorphous 0 x
> Insectoid 3 x
> Amphibian 1 x
> Ghipsoldal 0,1 x
> Siliconoid 0,08 x
> Chupanoid 0 x
>
>
> Greetings
> Sebastian
>
> PS:
>
> > So far,
> > I find all the natives useful, but not the ones making only money.
> >
> > Maybe I'm missing something.
>
> Youd do: Money is always usefull. Eve catched 1M insectoids and earnd money
> from them? Or ever send a native pod with 100 000bugs to an enfocer world?
> Ever got 100 000 Humans assimilatet by a borg king? Ever got 30 contra per
> 100 000 Avians as Scavanger?
>
> Everything but far from useless.
>
>
Anonymous
May 30, 2005 9:15:31 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

What? I don't understand. Whose attitude stops you answering whose questions?

GFM GToeroe

"Sparrow" <e.kueper@gmx.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:1117463609.737837.228590@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> As long as players are willing to support his attitude, there is no
> chance we will see any change. Therefeore I have stopped answering his
> questions!
>
May 31, 2005 4:34:10 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

The question was I think that why feds get more money from humanoids
than rebels from Avians.

AFAIK the money generated from natives is supposed to be relative to
race income number so for Feds the income is 62% more than Rebs.

This does not of course answer the problem completely, but explains at
least something on this issue.

So if rebs tax is 80 then for Avian it is 160
Feds for humanoids is 130

Of course the taxing policy also affactes these numbers for Feds this
is normally "enslavement" and for rebs normally "Ultra conservative" so
this should then answer your question....
May 31, 2005 4:43:37 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Sorry I was too quick to answer.... and understood your question wrong
:/  .

It would be really nice to have knowledage on the native taxing in the
base
May 31, 2005 7:24:42 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Taxes for natives are generated in the same way as they are generated
for Colonists, and at the same time, so with the same conditions as to
which population counts (as there can be a difference between
population on base and the amount you did get taxes for (on that
base)). With the one exception that different natives did give
different modifiers (as already mentioned in this thread -ie. bugs
3x).Also AFAIR a happiness of greater as 100 does only matter if the
tax setting is complex (as it is for Colonists).
Also one has to take in mind that ie. the RCS has different base income
rating (or better differently modifed) with different special race
building (some give a boni some a mali).
....
Anonymous
May 31, 2005 2:17:59 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Be cool, everything is ok. Have a nice day.

BTW: In my initial sims the tax output increased and increased with the happiness. If this really goes up to 300 then natives
will produce an income I never thought of and the Bugs (x 3 tax + cash for fuel mining) will appear in a new light... Happy and
unhappy making things will have a greater meaning then I thought...

GFM GToeroe

"Nosferatu" <tomi.ristimaki@netikka.fi> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:1117525417.720968.242330@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Sorry I was too quick to answer.... and understood your question wrong
> :/  .
>
> It would be really nice to have knowledage on the native taxing in the
> base
>
Anonymous
May 31, 2005 5:13:21 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Well, Nameless, I set up a base with 1M col and Bugs each with S-Pulse all the time and observed an increasing of the tax income
every turn. What could be the reason other than the increasing happiness?

We always should keep in mind that Tim changes a lot without mentioning (one of the sources of the game fun of planets). I only
remember the decreasing of the growth rate immediately behind of 30M (or was it 32M, don't know). In earlier days this happened
if one was very close to the 50M limit. (And don't mistake it for the shareware limit of 30M as the growth here is zero if you
just have reached 30M)

GFM GToeroe


"Nameless" <unknown_ai@web.de> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:1117535082.507370.30900@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Taxes for natives are generated in the same way as they are generated
> for Colonists, and at the same time, so with the same conditions as to
> which population counts (as there can be a difference between
> population on base and the amount you did get taxes for (on that
> base)). With the one exception that different natives did give
> different modifiers (as already mentioned in this thread -ie. bugs
> 3x).Also AFAIR a happiness of greater as 100 does only matter if the
> tax setting is complex (as it is for Colonists).
> Also one has to take in mind that ie. the RCS has different base income
> rating (or better differently modifed) with different special race
> building (some give a boni some a mali).
> ...
>
June 1, 2005 4:27:43 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

The attitude of "Mylord", who believes by declaring everything outdated
he can have this newsgroup as his private library. Those who dare
telling him that he may should do some research himself receive
immediate verbal punishment by him.
Anonymous
June 1, 2005 8:13:32 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

I posted that:

#1 I look up info on tim web site, in his help file.
#2 I also look for info at Klingon Kommand.

But I don't search old post from this news group, nor read old newspaper, or
tape tv news and watch them a few months or years later...

I'm always polite and kind.

I'm sure many ask questions whitout doing #1 and #2
"Sparrow" <e.kueper@gmx.net> a écrit dans le message de news:
1117610863.099083.265060@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> The attitude of "Mylord", who believes by declaring everything outdated
> he can have this newsgroup as his private library. Those who dare
> telling him that he may should do some research himself receive
> immediate verbal punishment by him.
>
June 1, 2005 2:39:37 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Gabor Törö wrote:
> Well, Nameless, I set up a base with 1M col and Bugs each with S-Pulse all the
> time and observed an increasing of the tax income
> every turn. What could be the reason other than the increasing happiness?

If you did see these results under all tax settings (not only complex,
but also conversative, ultra-conv. and enslavement) and you did not
have any other buildings etc. (natives on the planet surface coming to
my mind) etc., it might just be that happiness of over 100 does matter.


Still I do not think that there are any essential differences in the
native and colonist tax formula.


> We always should keep in mind that Tim changes a lot without mentioning (one of the sources of the game fun of planets). I only
> remember the decreasing of the growth rate immediately behind of 30M (or was it 32M, don't know). In earlier days this happened
> if one was very close to the 50M limit. (And don't mistake it for the shareware limit of 30M as the growth here is zero if you
> just have reached 30M)
>

These paragraphs are unnecessary and will probably only earn you nice
remarks (you are not wondering from whom or are you, JSC).
June 1, 2005 4:58:23 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Well how about ie. as formula for Colonist taxes:
TR: Tax rate
as described in the bugfix history #2
TM: 0 if tax setting is not complex 1 if tax setting is complex
CoR: #Colonists required to make 1 unit of income (units is not
necessarily 1 mc)
IR: Income rating of the race
H: Happiness value of the Colonists, H>20 (well in any case above 0,
since we would otherwise have negative numbers, and then 20 because I
think I remember
something about colonists not paying taxes if happiness is under 20 -
therefore these conditions)
Co: #Colonists on the base at the time of the tax calculation (not
necessarily the number displayed in the client of the turn before or
after tax collection)
IN: income on base in units
mi: race modifiers, building modifiers (ie. RCS) etc. (mi=1 if no
modifiers)

Then
IN= (TR/100)* (CO/CoR) * (IR/100) * (TM * H/100 + (1-TM) * min(100,
H))*0.7 * mi

And for natives:
TR: tax rate
NM: native multiplier
TM: 0 if tax setting is not complex 1 if tax setting is complex
CoR: #natives required to make 1 unit of income (units is not
necessarily 1 mc)
IR: Income rating of the race
H: Happiness value of the natives, H>20 (similiar to the one above)
Co: #natives on the base at the time of the tax calculation
IN: income on base in units
mi: race modifiers, building modifiers (ie. RCS) etc. (mi=1 if no
modifiers)

Then
IN= NM*(TR/100)* (CO/CoR) * (IR/100) * (TM * H/100 + (1-TM) * min(100,
H)) * 0.7 * mi


So the same except for the native multiplier. Of course since I am
still not playing planets (bad timing on your part)
I am not guaranteing that the formulae are correct - not that they
would help too much for most people anyway.

And maybe you are so kind as to tell me which tax setting you had on
(you still neglated to do so).
Was it by chance complex tax setting? And you also did not only look at
the client messages for
taxes, but looked what was actually on the base?

>Gabor Törö wrote:
>>Still I do not think that there are any essential differences in the
>>native and colonist tax formula.

>Bugs which at 300 happiness will give the 9 times income of the colonists at
>100 happiness. Not essential?

Well one factor 3 is the native multiplier of the bugs (and no
essential difference in the formula).
I do not need to tell you what the other one is. So yes no essential
difference.

>>>...
>>These paragraphs are unnecessary and will probably only earn you nice
>>remarks (you are not wondering from whom or are you, JSC).

>Come on, give it to me!

Still not realizing JSC that I will usually do so when I like to do so
and not when someone wants that I do that.
Sometimes one has to wait for the prizes one did earn.
Anonymous
June 2, 2005 12:35:25 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

"Nameless" <unknown_ai@web.de> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:1117647577.194369.21910@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...


Gabor Törö wrote:

>If you did see these results under all tax settings (not only complex,
>but also conversative, ultra-conv. and enslavement) and you did not

different tax settings are not necessary. It would be surprising enough if it is for one setting.

>have any other buildings etc. (natives on the planet surface coming to
my mind) etc., it might just be that happiness of over 100 does matter.

No natives, no structures, just a bit food and the lifeforms.

>Still I do not think that there are any essential differences in the
>native and colonist tax formula.

Bugs which at 300 happiness will give the 9 times income of the colonists at 100 happiness. Not essential?

>These paragraphs are unnecessary and will probably only earn you nice
>remarks (you are not wondering from whom or are you, JSC).

Come on, give it to me!

GFM GToeroe alias Janitor 2nd Class GToeroe
Anonymous
June 2, 2005 4:00:19 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

"Nameless" <unknown_ai@web.de> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:1117655903.198954.253450@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...


>IN= (TR/100)* (CO/CoR) * (IR/100) * (TM * H/100 + (1-TM) * min(100,
>H))*0.7 * mi

Worth to be tested.


>IN= NM*(TR/100)* (CO/CoR) * (IR/100) * (TM * H/100 + (1-TM) * min(100,
>H)) * 0.7 * mi

The happiness in my sim started below 100 and need a few turns to reach 100. The income increased all the time even above 100.

>And maybe you are so kind as to tell me which tax setting you had on
>(you still neglated to do so).
lowest possible

>And you also did not only look at
>the client messages for
>taxes, but looked what was actually on the base?

How dumb I am do you think?

>I do not need to tell you what the other one is. So yes no essential
>difference.

If I would get 3 times the income at hapiness 300 compared with the income at 100 would you then still call this not essential?
Or other if the happiness drop down to 50 for example the result would be an 6 times less income whould you still call this not
essential? The part min(100,H) does not fit. There was no cut above 100 overservable in my sim. The income continued in
increasing.


>Still not realizing JSC that I will usually do so when I like to do so
>and not when someone wants that I do that.
>Sometimes one has to wait for the prizes one did earn.

You think you have a freewill? Never saw you spontaneously insulting

GFM GToeroe
June 5, 2005 2:16:14 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

I am disappointed you did not even find the obvious mistake in the
formula, as min(100,H) would need to be replaced with min(1,H/100).

Gabor Törö wrote:
> "Nameless" <unknown_ai@web.de> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:1117655903.198954.253450@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> >And maybe you are so kind as to tell me which tax setting you had on
> >(you still neglated to do so).
>
> lowest possible

This would mean complex tax setting.
(And yes I know that it only the lowest displayed one in the client not
the one with the lowest TR rating, which would be ultra conservative.)

> >And you also did not only look at
> >the client messages for
> >taxes, but looked what was actually on the base?
>
> How dumb I am do you think?
>

Some questions are best left unanswered. And then you do not want to
hear
my answer. And even if you would insist I would be too polite to
comply.

> >I do not need to tell you what the other one is. So yes no essential
> >difference.
>
> If I would get 3 times the income at hapiness 300 compared with the income at 100 would you then still call this not essential?

Well my last post did already give the answer to that question. And yes
that does not change anything.

> The part min(100,H) does not fit. There was no cut above 100 overservable in > my sim. The income continued in
> increasing.

No wonder with complex tax setting (is it not nice to just assume that
you did use that tax setting).

>
> >Still not realizing JSC that I will usually do so when I like to do so
> >and not when someone wants that I do that.
> >Sometimes one has to wait for the prizes one did earn.
>
> You think you have a freewill?

Well basically if I have to make a decision I throw a dice to simulate
my freewill.

> Never saw you spontaneously insulting

Making assumptions on what the prize will be?
I think I did not tell you what the prize is, or did I?
June 6, 2005 2:55:58 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

I am not searching for every hair, I am just finding a lot of hairs in
a soup.


GFM GToeroe wrote:
> Differently to you I'm not searching for every hair in the soup. I just
> thought you just might have meant the right, Nameless.
>
> GFM GToeroe
>
Anonymous
June 6, 2005 9:26:00 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Differently to you I'm not searching for every hair in the soup. I just
thought you just might have meant the right, Nameless.

GFM GToeroe


"Nameless" <unknown_ai@web.de> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:1117991774.795666.285180@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
I am disappointed you did not even find the obvious mistake in the
formula, as min(100,H) would need to be replaced with min(1,H/100).

Gabor Törö wrote:
> "Nameless" <unknown_ai@web.de> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:1117655903.198954.253450@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> >And maybe you are so kind as to tell me which tax setting you had on
> >(you still neglated to do so).
>
> lowest possible

This would mean complex tax setting.
(And yes I know that it only the lowest displayed one in the client not
the one with the lowest TR rating, which would be ultra conservative.)

> >And you also did not only look at
> >the client messages for
> >taxes, but looked what was actually on the base?
>
> How dumb I am do you think?
>

Some questions are best left unanswered. And then you do not want to
hear
my answer. And even if you would insist I would be too polite to
comply.

> >I do not need to tell you what the other one is. So yes no essential
> >difference.
>
> If I would get 3 times the income at hapiness 300 compared with the income
at 100 would you then still call this not essential?

Well my last post did already give the answer to that question. And yes
that does not change anything.

> The part min(100,H) does not fit. There was no cut above 100 overservable
in > my sim. The income continued in
> increasing.

No wonder with complex tax setting (is it not nice to just assume that
you did use that tax setting).

>
> >Still not realizing JSC that I will usually do so when I like to do so
> >and not when someone wants that I do that.
> >Sometimes one has to wait for the prizes one did earn.
>
> You think you have a freewill?

Well basically if I have to make a decision I throw a dice to simulate
my freewill.

> Never saw you spontaneously insulting

Making assumptions on what the prize will be?
I think I did not tell you what the prize is, or did I?
Anonymous
June 7, 2005 5:31:22 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Then put on a cape before adding yours.

"Nameless" <unknown_ai@web.de> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:1118080558.373896.184130@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> I am not searching for every hair, I am just finding a lot of hairs in
> a soup.
>
>
> GFM GToeroe wrote:
> > Differently to you I'm not searching for every hair in the soup. I just
> > thought you just might have meant the right, Nameless.
> >
> > GFM GToeroe
> >
>
!