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Actually orbital modes were a good idea in vcr...

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Anonymous
June 13, 2005 4:37:06 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

I think it was a good idea of Tim to introduce this orbial modes for ships.
On of the main problems one has in modeling the movement are

1) get the movement bounded to the vcr zone
2) find a easy way for ships to flee
3) having simple algorithms at all to save the caculatory affords.

I think if one pick up this idea, enhance it a bit and add the possibility
to have straight line pursuits for single ships then vcr would look much
better and most of us would agree.

I imagine this system of orbital modes as follows ( assuming that the vcr
zone is 2000x2000 square)

Ground attack orbital mode I in range of the ion cannons. This mode all
ships which ground attack "on" have to take while there is a baseshield.
Once it is destroyed such ships are allowed to chose and orbital mode due to
their stand off range. I wish the old strength of Ion cannons back but with
a push back effect the smaller the higher the (total) mass of the ship is.

Ground attack orbital mode II: Due to the LWs range or the set standoff
range. Assignable if hostile base shields are destroyed.

Idle orbital modes. Ships which have no clue what to do at the moment go
into a mode due to their mass: The more heavy the closer to the center (but
above ground attack orbital) and vice versa.

Wing idle orbitals: All most at the edge but in way that their is enough
space for an outer "Flee" orbital.

"Flee" orbital I: Ships which thinks they have to flee from enemies tend to
cycle at largest possible radius.
"Flee" orbital II: All most in the center of the vcr zone. only assignable
if enemy bases are destroyed and after tick 500.

Then there are two pursuit modes:

Straight line and orbital.

In orbital pursuiting ships try occupy the right orbital due to the orbital
of the prey and their standoff. Then they try to reach the same polar angle
as their prey and try to hold the polar angle difference at zero. This way
even faster ships could be pursuited successfully if the slower ships comes
from a lower orbital and faster ships which are intelligent enough could try
to reach lower orbital and hold a polar difference of PI if they think they
have to flee.

Straight line pursuiting is the try to intercept the prey until the set
standoff range on a straight line which of course changes its direction as
the chaser and the prey move.

The ability to change between orbital modes and doing orbital
pursuiting/escaping could be modelled due to ships exp and HGs on board.

Straight line pursuiting could be reserved for for fast small ships which
the right attack and/or evasive bonuses (including exotics) and for wings.

--------------- Flee orbital I
--------------- Wing idle orbital
--------------- Last Ground attack orbitals II / Last Idle Orbitals - for
the lightest ship / Last Combat Orbital
..
..
..
--------------- Ground attack orbitals II ships/wings of base shields are
gone / First Idle Orbitals of the heaviest ships / First Combat Orbitals
--------------- Ground Attack orbital I ships in range of the ion cannons
--------------- Ground Attack orbital I wings in range of the AA guns
--------------- Flee orbital II
--------------- center

GFM GToeroe
Anonymous
June 14, 2005 9:05:12 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Excellent ideas... a couple of thoughts:

Idle orbitals: Why seperate them by their mass? What is gained by
this, just so that slower/heavier ships can orbit at same speed as
faster/lighter ones? Would assigning a random orbital be better? I
would prefer using a CC to set your own default Idle orbital, with
default being either your idea, or a random orbital.

Straight line pursuit: Reserve it for ship skill, that way this stat
does something useful. Or maybe the race pilot stat which is not
used... is it even still around? I say avoid using the Attack/Evasive
bonus as these already have a large effect... I hesitate to make them
even more important.

Idle ships: Should there be logic to allow them to leave these idle
orbitals to pursue ships that fire at them from outside the weapon
range of their return fire?
June 14, 2005 11:31:25 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Just make sure that the big ships still try to match the Standoff
Range, when moving to the center. There is little gain in moving to the
center, unless you want to destroy a base there - or like to be shot
at.

Stormers have an extremely high attack bonus. This should not result in
any "insane" advantage.
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Anonymous
June 14, 2005 12:02:40 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Appologies for being so repeatingly inquisitive on these topics,
but do you REALLY believe that there are Han Solos sitting in the pilot
seats and behind the laser cannon doing a dodge-the-laser manoeuvre ??

Might be okay for LucasArts but for VGAplanets ??

Andreas
Anonymous
June 14, 2005 12:31:52 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Are you frightened about something? Would could go wrong?


I just don't like making one stat the 'most importaint' stat is all...
if the same thing could be achieved through a less used stat, then I
say use that one instead. Attack/Evasion already have a big effect in
combat.
Anonymous
June 14, 2005 12:36:05 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

do you REALLY believe that there are Han Solos sitting in the pilot
seats and behind the laser cannon doing a dodge-the-laser manoeuvre ??


If there is a HG there... then YES, there is a Han Solo. That is the
point of HG. They are the main characters... the special ones. That's
why there are so few in relation to your colonists. The 1%-ers, if you
will.

IMO, They should play a big part in the game, just a main characters in
movies do.
Anonymous
June 14, 2005 6:42:40 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

<david_bandy@hotmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:1118750712.330035.250690@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Excellent ideas... a couple of thoughts:
>
> Idle orbitals: Why seperate them by their mass? What is gained by
> this, just so that slower/heavier ships can orbit at same speed as
> faster/lighter ones?

Yes.

Skies said:
"...When I think of a space battle between two space ships it's pretty much
like
picturing two massive old time frigates (with the sails and all)
shooting at each other with the cannos from point blank range. The
fighters (in sci-fi) are the fast ones, we don't much see Galacticas or
Borg Cubes circling around planets during battles..."

I like this picture. Having the heavy ships closer to the center would make
an natural way to ensure this. Or mabe the slower ships as it could be that
some heavier ships could be fast, too. The only difference is that the path
off these old frigates is turned into a system of more or less concentric
circles.


> Would assigning a random orbital be better?
Of course everything could be possible. As if they want to fire often they
have to choose the orbital anyway. Maybe a mixture: The the heavier (or the
slower) the larger is the chance for a smal orbital. Anyway. Important is a
basic working model at which the most of us will agree to.

> would prefer using a CC to set your own default Idle orbital, with
> default being either your idea, or a random orbital.
Again every is possible. I will notice it on the summary about the voting
here and all other suggestion/wishes/etc. which occured in threads to the
vcr subject and send it to Tim.

> Straight line pursuit: Reserve it for ship skill, that way this stat
> does something useful. Or maybe the race pilot stat which is not
> used... is it even still around?
Notcied.

>I say avoid using the Attack/Evasive
> bonus as these already have a large effect... I hesitate to make them
> even more important.
Are you frightened about something? Would could go wrong?

The idea was: The ships with high attack/evasive bonus are most of the time
smaller ships. And for this smaller ships we want that they can do a swarmer
attack. If a straight line pursuit is allowed for them then the setting
"attack dangerous" and the existing code for choosing this target could be
used as the prey. Swarmers in a straight line pursiut tend to show a
syncronized and coherently movement pattern as they all chase the same
onject. So identical (load, design and orders) small fast ships will
effectively perform a coordinated attack on one object. Maybe only the
evasive of this both stats is taken as it stand for a certain mobility of
the ships to evade fire. But this is all music of the future.

The important task is to implement movement routines which can react on
stats at all.

> Idle ships: Should there be logic to allow them to leave these idle
> orbitals to pursue ships that fire at them from outside the weapon
> range of their return fire?

Of course! The more experienced the better! The less system and engine
damage the better. The more HGs the better!

GFM GToeroe
Anonymous
June 15, 2005 12:37:44 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

david_bandy@hotmail.com schrieb:
> do you REALLY believe that there are Han Solos sitting in the pilot
> seats and behind the laser cannon doing a dodge-the-laser manoeuvre ??
>
>
> If there is a HG there... then YES, there is a Han Solo. That is the
> point of HG. They are the main characters... the special ones. That's
> why there are so few in relation to your colonists. The 1%-ers, if you
> will.
>
> IMO, They should play a big part in the game, just a main characters in
> movies do.

Sorry, but to be that special there are lot to much HGs in game, special
for some races.
Have you ever see in the movies 1000s of Yedis or "Dark-Yedis" or good
pilots as Han Solo are or so. Or the are only one Picard / Kirk / .. at
the Enterprise serie and not thousands of them. At some races (Cylonen and
other), I have nothing seen (or remember) something like HGs, so where do
they come from.

Bye-Bye JoSch.
Anonymous
June 15, 2005 1:52:40 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

> Sorry, but to be that special there are lot to much HGs in game, special
> for some races.
> Have you ever see in the movies 1000s of Yedis or "Dark-Yedis" or good
> pilots as Han Solo are or so. Or the are only one Picard / Kirk / .. at
> the Enterprise serie and not thousands of them. At some races (Cylonen and
> other), I have nothing seen (or remember) something like HGs, so where do
> they come from.


But it is what they are, like it or not... so said the game creator.
That's why they don't die too easy and reassemble at bases. Heros
don't die, they almost always get away.
!