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Side Intake Fans

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June 6, 2011 8:18:55 AM

Are my intake fans about to die?
I bought the case from newegg and the brand of the case is called sentey case. I forgot which model, but the case in general is fine. The problem is that once i turn on the computer, the fan would run at full speed. After 10 minutes, it starts to slow down and this clicking sound starts to come up. Then 20 minutes later, the fan stops turning. If i shut down my computer (NOT restart), the fans run again. Then the whole process repeats again. After reading about computer fans, these might be the problems:
A: Needs oiling. I don't know how to oil them.
B: My power supply is not powerful enough.
C: The fans were defective in the first place.
D: Your answer.

Additional INFO:
When the fans stop turning, the LED are still on. Nothing dims or anything. I just build this PC 2 months ago with an 8 year old power supply, so that might be the case.
My PC specs might hog all the power from the power supply.
8GB DDR3 1333MHZ RAM
1TB 7200RPM SATA HDD
ATI Radeon HD 5670
AMD Phenom II X6 1090T 3.2GHZ per core.
4 120MM LED fans
2 80MM LED FANS
450Watt Power supply.
---------------------------------
Also, nothing is over clocked. According to extreme power supply calculator, i need at least 400 watts on my PSU, but my PSU is 450Watts.

Thank You.

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June 6, 2011 9:08:02 AM

Even a quality PSU would be degrading after 8 years. Given your system requires 400W, and bear in mind a reasonable rule of thumb is to multiply your PSU capability by 0.8 (80% efficiency), your 450W PSU at best can provide 360W. It's a rough estimate, bear in mind, but it could be your system is underpowered. It may be worth replacing it.
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a c 83 ) Power supply
June 6, 2011 5:14:54 PM

I would think bad fans. Follow IH8U's advice. Might want to shop around a bit on the PSU, $60 is a bit for that one.

Quote:
multiply your PSU capability by 0.8 (80% efficiency), your 450W PSU at best can provide 360W.


Not even close Diellur. While some take off 10-20% for capacitor aging around 3-5+ years, you're doing it all wrong. The efficiency is how well the PSU converts the AC that it gets from the wall into DC that your computer uses. Remember that you can't destroy energy? You can convert it from one form to another, but its not usually a 100% perfect process. If you were to max out a 450W PSU that's 80% efficient, it would be pulling 563W from the wall.
June 6, 2011 6:05:56 PM

4745454b said:
I would think bad fans. Follow IH8U's advice. Might want to shop around a bit on the PSU, $60 is a bit for that one.

Quote:
multiply your PSU capability by 0.8 (80% efficiency), your 450W PSU at best can provide 360W.


Not even close Diellur. While some take off 10-20% for capacitor aging around 3-5+ years, you're doing it all wrong. The efficiency is how well the PSU converts the AC that it gets from the wall into DC that your computer uses. Remember that you can't destroy energy? You can convert it from one form to another, but its not usually a 100% perfect process. If you were to max out a 450W PSU that's 80% efficient, it would be pulling 563W from the wall.


I have to say, that was a light-bulb moment. Thanks for that. :)  To be fair, I am aware of that with energy. Nothing in my reply suggested otherwise, I just got the efficiency calc muddled up. 563W from the wall to 450W output is the same calc as 0.8*450W=360W. :) 

All that aside, the OP said his requirements are 400W. I think it's fair to say that even a quality PSU that is 8 years old would have lost more than 10% efficiency from it's starting spec.
a c 83 ) Power supply
June 6, 2011 8:03:13 PM

Quote:
563W from the wall to 450W output is the same calc as 0.8*450W=360W.


The math is the same, but the items used are vastly different.

The OP might think he needs 400W, but a 125W CPU, 50W board + drives, and 60W for the GPU leaves me with a 235W figure. 8 years is a huge span for a PSU so he's probably dealing with a sub 80% PSU. I'd get one just for all the advancements that have come about. I believe I said he should follow IH8U's advice which did suggest a new PSU.
June 6, 2011 9:36:50 PM

4745454b said:
Quote:
563W from the wall to 450W output is the same calc as 0.8*450W=360W.


The math is the same, but the items used are vastly different.


Embarrassingly, I was mistaking the relationship of the PSU efficiency with the power rating. However, the items aren't 'vastly' different. In this case, to supply 450W to the system, the PSU needs to draw 563W (as you pointed out). But if the outcome is a power rating through efficiency of a process, then the input to that process must also be power (however it is derived) as efficiency is unit-less. First principles, I believe it's called. :)  How it converts the energy from the wall into power usable by the system and how the system further converts that power is, of course, vastly different.

4745454b said:
I believe I said he should follow IH8U's advice which did suggest a new PSU.


I don't believe I disputed this, sir. :)  You mentioned that some people take 10% or so off of the rated power through capacitor ageing, and I was agreeing that this would put the PSU delivery below the system demand. At no point was I questioning your advice.
June 6, 2011 9:39:07 PM

Edit: Should say that the system doesn't further convert the power, just distributes it.
a c 144 ) Power supply
June 6, 2011 10:02:59 PM

diellur said:
563W from the wall to 450W output is the same calc as 0.8*450W=360W.

No, it is not.

If you are talking about PSU efficiency, power from wall = rated power / efficiency.

And if you are talking about "capacitor aging", here are my thoughts about that:
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/300392-10-capacitor...
a c 83 ) Power supply
June 7, 2011 4:51:22 AM

The problem with your math is that it shouldn't work out. If the PSU can output 450W, then it outputs 450W. As I showed, if your supplying 450W then it will need more power from the wall. What your claiming is that a 450W PSU CAN'T supply that much power because you need to multiply it by X amount, which is wrong. It's possible to buy a cheap PSU where the manufacturer lies to you. But if a 450W says it can output 450W, then it has to output 450W.

As JSC says there are different ways of viewing cap aging. Many like to remove X%. I say if you don't trust it, just get a new one. Many advances have been made in PSU tech, you might as well get one.
June 7, 2011 5:04:45 AM

jsc said:
No, it is not.

If you are talking about PSU efficiency, power from wall = rated power / efficiency.


It is correct, friend. :)  We're both using the same formula (and 474545b has agreed with the maths behind it, also)

Output = Eff. * Input

450W = 0.8 * 563W (going from 563W to 450W, perhaps that was bad English!)
360W = 0.8 * 450W (my incorrect theory on PSUs, but correct use of eff. from input -> output)

Both cases, I was wanting the output from a known input and eff. Your calc is finding out the input from a known output and eff.

jsc said:
And if you are talking about "capacitor aging", here are my thoughts about that:
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/300392-10-capacitor...


I'll check that out. I wasn't really making any determination on what was behind the issue other than the PSU being old. I would imagine there are a lot of factors. The fact is that PSUs that have been used for several years aren't as capable at that point than they were when new, and I believe that's been established empirically at the very least.
June 7, 2011 7:56:53 AM

4745454b said:
The problem with your math is that it shouldn't work out. If the PSU can output 450W, then it outputs 450W. As I showed, if your supplying 450W then it will need more power from the wall. What your claiming is that a 450W PSU CAN'T supply that much power because you need to multiply it by X amount, which is wrong.


Please go back and re-read the thread. Yes, I initially thought that you take the PSU power rating and multiply by efficiency to get the practical output to the system. However, after your correction that the PSU power rating is what it supplies to the system, and the efficiency is applied to the power draw from the wall, I haven’t continued to claim anything otherwise. Where I subsequently compared your 450W = 563W * 0.8 calc to my 360W = 450W * 0.8 calc, I was showing that I’d used efficiency correctly. My error was that I’d used the wrong numbers, and I’ve accepted that from the start. In hind-sight, it’s a school-boy error on my part and I’m glad you pointed it out!

What I am disputing is when you showed me that the PSU draws a greater power from the wall, then said my own calc was wrong as

4745454b said:
the items used are vastly different


My calc was showing the exact same thing as yours, that efficiency results in a drop between supply power and output power (I've agreed that what I thought was taken for supply power was incorrect). The items can’t be different as efficiency is a ratio and therefore dimensionless. That’s fundamental engineering / physics. I did use the wrong numbers, but I used the correct units so the items are in fact the same (in this case, watts, or if you want to get right down to it, Joules/second).

To recap, I absolutely stand corrected and appreciate that if it says 450W on the tin, it supplies 450W to the system.
!