Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

Bad blood

Last response: in Video Games
Share
Anonymous
July 10, 2005 7:30:41 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Is there a way to see the level of bad blood I have of other races? So
that I could calculate the chances for labor camps.
Would be very helpful to know...

thx
Acids

More about : bad blood

Anonymous
July 10, 2005 4:52:59 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

You could do it the other way round. See the chances and calculate the bad
blood.
There´s no way of seeing bad blood directly.

Greetings
Sebastian



> Is there a way to see the level of bad blood I have of other races? So
> that I could calculate the chances for labor camps.
> Would be very helpful to know...
Anonymous
July 11, 2005 4:05:25 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

I wish there was at least a message when bad blood reached certain lvl....

For example

If prisoners of race X and badblood = 0 : Your prisoners are indifferent :) 
If prisoners of race X and badblood>50 : Yor Prisoners are lightly
intimidated
If prisoners of race X and badblood>100 : Prisoners of race X are afraid of
your guards
If prisoners of race X and badblood>200 : Prisoners of race X will work like
hell, if you just stop killing their people

I have no clue what the bad blood numbers are, i just thought of a message
for bad blood at least something
making this relation more vivit and transparent should be introduced.

Some cool adjectives would help

splitted


"Sebastian" <Sebastian@nospam.nospam> wrote in message
news:3jcd39Fp95fhU1@news.dfncis.de...
> You could do it the other way round. See the chances and calculate the bad
> blood.
> There´s no way of seeing bad blood directly.
>
> Greetings
> Sebastian
>
>
>
>> Is there a way to see the level of bad blood I have of other races? So
>> that I could calculate the chances for labor camps.
>> Would be very helpful to know...
>
>
Related resources
Can't find your answer ? Ask !
Anonymous
July 12, 2005 12:36:16 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Isn´t it easy enough to set up a few "test camps"? Meaning build 25 camps
fill them with prisoners and calculate the chances. Then you can see the bad
blood associated with the chances. Not much prisoners are lost cause only
few camps on the base.
You can still produce enough cash with camps so if you want to optimize this
a little work should at least be needed. More micro leads to more money.

Greetings
Sebastian
Anonymous
July 13, 2005 5:01:07 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

"test camps"? But, what a solution is that? In a game with 30 players,
how many tests must i do? how many turns?...

I agree that it's important to receive a message with bad blood lvl for
each of the other players. Logicaly, there is no sense for non-evil
races. IMHO, It could be included in the new score system.
Anonymous
July 13, 2005 5:51:12 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

It don't have to be a new message. But at least something. You can even
see your crime level and do something against it.
And I don't think that testing would be confident. With an 80% chance
failure, there is the possibility (I know it is very low, but it can
be) that 20 turns in a row nothing will be produced.
Know what I mean? You simply cannot be sure what bad blood level you
have...

cu
Acids
Anonymous
July 13, 2005 8:53:33 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

I also agree to a message about the bad blood level.

The game as already too much micro in it, Tim removed some no fun micro that
added nothing to the game like med unit, but add this extremly complexe bad
blood rule, and need a lot of micro to make it work...

The time I spent doing micro for bad blood is less time for me to do battle
tactic, dipplomatic relation or anything more fun.

Lord Lancelot
Anonymous
July 14, 2005 12:34:03 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

So last point: You don´t need to know bad blood level to optimise bad blood.
There´s no real reason to give this information to the player. The bad blood
was introduced for a specific and good reason. It should stay.

But you can of cause be of an different opinion. I yust told you how you can
get that infomation. But I think you´ll never have a mesage or something
similar showing you the bad blood lvl.

Greetings
Sebastian
Anonymous
July 14, 2005 9:52:51 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

What I would like to see is a display in the races screen where you can
see the attitude of the other races towards your race which would be
related to the bad blood, but could also be influenced by sneak attacks
against allies or positively by trading shipplans etc.
There was something like that in the old turnbased strategy game
"Warlords". There you could see, the attitude was "loathing", "hatred",
"trust" and such a like.
This could be a way to have information about bad blood without giving
too detailled information, so you could see, you have to work on your
"bad blood" or that its already quite ok.

Jochen
Anonymous
July 14, 2005 3:03:43 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

> You have to work on you bad blood if your camps fail to work too often.
> Simple isn´t it? And does not need extra code :o )

I had understood that each player have a Bad Blood level against each
of the other players in a same game. Or there is a main Blood Level for
each player?...
Anonymous
July 14, 2005 8:24:38 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

> This could be a way to have information about bad blood without giving
> too detailled information, so you could see, you have to work on your
> "bad blood" or that its already quite ok.

You have to work on you bad blood if your camps fail to work too often.
Simple isn´t it? And does not need extra code :o )

Greetings
Sebastian
Anonymous
July 14, 2005 9:01:06 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

No, there's a bad blood level against each race.

Jochen
Anonymous
July 15, 2005 3:57:36 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Ok, Then in a 30 player Game it's impossible to test Labor camps with
each prisioner races. What happens if you have 100k Fed prisioneers and
50K Draco prisioners and 230k UA prisioners, and so? Which prisioneer
are the best for Labor Camps?... Must i test every race?...
inadmissible. Must I be in War to accumulating Bad Blood for each race.

An indicator lack, and perhaps a revision of how work Bad Blood.

Greetings :) 
Anonymous
July 15, 2005 4:27:04 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

.... and what happens if i capture a HW at beggining of game?... what
happens with prisioneer (perhaps 500k or more)? what happens with bad
blood the rest of game against this race?

I think that Bad blood could be a good idea, but actually lack a little
more analisis about this... it is?
Anonymous
July 15, 2005 2:51:44 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

I don't doubt that there is some solution, but you must admit that
nature of your solution denotes clearly that Bad Blood isn't well
focused. What reasoning have to release prisoners and kill them?

Bad Blood is a feature thought to avoid the allied slaves traffic? to
limit the crazy income of thousands of Labor camps? Then I think that
it doesn't avoid it (where is the law, there is the trap) and in
addition this penalizes to evil races, increases micro-manag
unnecessarily and it requires an additional cost.

I continue thinking that Bad Blood needs to be reviewed urgently.

Greetings
Anonymous
July 15, 2005 4:00:35 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

I agree.


"Myflowers" <apunzi@ono.com> wrote in message
news:1121412424.080890.318590@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> ... and what happens if i capture a HW at beggining of game?... what
> happens with prisioneer (perhaps 500k or more)? what happens with bad
> blood the rest of game against this race?
>
> I think that Bad blood could be a good idea, but actually lack a little
> more analisis about this... it is?
>
Anonymous
July 15, 2005 5:33:05 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Yes. Bad Blood is -- in my understanding -- a feature included by Tim
to help eliminate the undesired (per Tim and plenty of others, anyway)
practice of "economic allies" trading colonists to each other for labor
camp/mine use. Before the (corrected) Bad Blood code, the economics of
camps/mines versus other colonist money-making alternatives (e.g.
cities) certainly favored such a practice. So, assuming there is no
rule against it, it is understandable why people would want to do it.
(Part of Tim's motive may have been to just reduce the income from
labor camps/mines in general too.)

Bad Blood therefore, is meant to try to sort out those who are really
at war with each other with those who are just trading colonists for
economic reasons. However, as has been discussed, the elements of
"war" which go into the calculation of Bad Blood can be simulated, with
lots of annoying micromanagement, by economic partners and, as some
have pointed out, at little cost in resources (e.g. killing cheap
ships). Worse, races that really are at war with their prisoner race
also have to suffer through the micromanagement, simply because they
won their prisoners quickly or easily.

As others have pointed out, the only way to really stop "mutually
beneficial" colonist trading is to create a state of affairs where
giving your prisoners to another race causes you as much or more of a
loss in MC than it serves to increase the other race's MC. That is
logical, but implementing it would have the effect of doubling the
effect of prisoner taking in a true war scenario (i.e. attacker gains
lots, loser loses lots). And, that would likely unbalance the game by
putting the GA races at a decided advantage.

So, what's the solution? How do you return some potency to labor
camps/mines without all the delay and micromanagement, while still
protecting against abusive colonist trading, putting some limits on
crazy income of huge numbers of labor camps, and not unduly giving an
advantage to GA races?

My suggestion: (1) remove bad blood entirely, (2) set camp/mine
production back to 80% (or something above 50% anyway) and (2) place a
modest upper limit on the number of camps/mines per world
(suggestions?).

The reason this might work is that the happiness hit from holding
prisoners appears to be per prisoner world. So, by forcing the labor
camp/mine race to spread the prisoners around on a lot of worlds (at
least if they want to make a lot of MC), you will generate a really bad
happiness hit on the prisoner race, hopefully making the practice of
giving colonists away undesirable. Yes, this is a kind of
micromanagement itself, but much easier than staging fake wars, and
consistent with other structure limits in the game.

-- Karnak Prime

P.S. Of course, a gentlemen's agreement in the game settings not to
trade cols seems to work just fine too, with a lot less coding.
Anonymous
July 15, 2005 9:50:54 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Haven´t I wrote in more than in one post just kill some of the prisoners
using ground combat? Doing this works fine and increase bad blood. The
numbers you have to kill in GC is small comparing to the number of prisoners
you´ll lose anyway du to camps.

And btw: camps which different prisoners seem to have better chances.

Goggle the groups and you´ll find the answer (and the code).
Bad blood will stay even if every single person of that race is in prison.

Greetings
Sebastian
July 16, 2005 9:39:06 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Sebastian wrote:
> So last point: You don´t need to know bad blood level to optimise bad blood.
> There´s no real reason to give this information to the player. The bad blood
> was introduced for a specific and good reason. It should stay.
>
> But you can of cause be of an different opinion. I yust told you how you can
> get that infomation. But I think you´ll never have a mesage or something
> similar showing you the bad blood lvl.
>
> Greetings
> Sebastian

I do disagree on parts of this message. As it is I do know the bad
blood in my only game for all races (playing Dracs), as it is it is
zero (for all) (I do not think that Dracs do start with a bonus in bad
blood).
Eventhough I already have 100 k prisoners (he did loose a few Crew and
some Colos in the GC - I did loose nothing) and I am pretty sure that
they will fail to work this turn and the next turns. And I also do see
no problem to keep track of bad blood, especially considering that the
formuals have already been published in this newsgroup.

And I do not think that I need to say anything more about this, I have
already done that.
!