# Discharge rate of NiMH AA's in a fridge?

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Anonymous
February 10, 2005 1:38:11 AM

I'm loaning a digital camera to my parents who are soon to go on a 3
week cruise. Rather than having them worry about recharging batteries
(the ship uses British connectors and 220V at 60 Hz, my charger has
Australian fittings and uses 240V at 50 Hz), I had a thought that I
could give them 3 or 4 sets of fully charged 2100mAh AA batteries to
take with them for the camera.

If left at room temperature, these extra batteries will lose a fair
bit of their charge over the period of the trip. So, I figure if they
are kept in a fridge, they shouldn't discharge as much.

What sort of discharge rate would NiMH AA batteries have if they are
stored in a fridge?

Thanks for any replies.
Anonymous
February 10, 2005 5:16:47 AM

Darren Wilson wrote:
> I'm loaning a digital camera to my parents who are soon to go on a 3
> week cruise. Rather than having them worry about recharging batteries
> (the ship uses British connectors and 220V at 60 Hz, my charger has
> Australian fittings and uses 240V at 50 Hz), I had a thought that I
> could give them 3 or 4 sets of fully charged 2100mAh AA batteries to
> take with them for the camera.
>
> If left at room temperature, these extra batteries will lose a fair
> bit of their charge over the period of the trip. So, I figure if they
> are kept in a fridge, they shouldn't discharge as much.
>
> What sort of discharge rate would NiMH AA batteries have if they are
> stored in a fridge?
>
> Thanks for any replies.

At 40F or lower, they should discharge at only about 10% of the rate
they would discharge at 70F. This is guess based on the rate at which
chemical reactions normally slow in a fridge.

--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
February 10, 2005 7:55:07 AM

This sounds awfully complicated to me. When my wife goes on the road
for an extensive period I give her a couple of sets Li Ion's for her
Oly 490 (a pretty power hungry camera), which seem to work forever.
Dunno what kind of camera you have, but eight of these batteries should
take care of hundreds of photos -- and take away a lot of possible
aggravation. Let them think about the cruise.
Related resources
Anonymous
February 10, 2005 9:56:50 AM

Darren Wilson wrote:

> I'm loaning a digital camera to my parents who are soon to go on a 3
> week cruise. Rather than having them worry about recharging batteries
> (the ship uses British connectors and 220V at 60 Hz, my charger has
> Australian fittings and uses 240V at 50 Hz), I had a thought that I
> could give them 3 or 4 sets of fully charged 2100mAh AA batteries to
> take with them for the camera.
>
> If left at room temperature, these extra batteries will lose a fair
> bit of their charge over the period of the trip. So, I figure if they
> are kept in a fridge, they shouldn't discharge as much.
>
> What sort of discharge rate would NiMH AA batteries have if they are
> stored in a fridge?
>
> Thanks for any replies.

Hi...

Greetings from Canada (110 - 60)

I suspect that given any chemical reaction will slow
with reduced temperature that they would last longer in
the fridge.

I suspect that their biggest problem will be an insatiable
desire to review their pics over and over again with the lcd;
and then to share them with others on board. Add to that
many of them will be taken indoors using the flash, and they're
going to need lots of energy

Think of a couple of possible easy and inexpensive possible solutions...

Too late to contact the ship; find out if 12v dc is available?
(At least we all have that in common, eh?

And the possibility that they may be able to make friends
with compatible English folks on board; perhaps get a
charge or top-up once in a while. Specially if the new
found friends have a fast charger.

Just my tuppenny's worth

Ken
Anonymous
February 10, 2005 9:56:51 AM

Ken Weitzel wrote:
>
>
> Darren Wilson wrote:
>
>> I'm loaning a digital camera to my parents who are soon to go on a 3
>> week cruise. Rather than having them worry about recharging batteries
>> (the ship uses British connectors and 220V at 60 Hz, my charger has
>> Australian fittings and uses 240V at 50 Hz), I had a thought that I
>> could give them 3 or 4 sets of fully charged 2100mAh AA batteries to
>> take with them for the camera.
>>
>> If left at room temperature, these extra batteries will lose a fair
>> bit of their charge over the period of the trip. So, I figure if they
>> are kept in a fridge, they shouldn't discharge as much.
>>
>> What sort of discharge rate would NiMH AA batteries have if they are
>> stored in a fridge?
>>
>> Thanks for any replies.
>
>
> Hi...
>
> Greetings from Canada (110 - 60)
>
> I suspect that given any chemical reaction will slow
> with reduced temperature that they would last longer in
> the fridge.
>
> I suspect that their biggest problem will be an insatiable
> desire to review their pics over and over again with the lcd;
> and then to share them with others on board. Add to that
> many of them will be taken indoors using the flash, and they're
> going to need lots of energy
>
> Think of a couple of possible easy and inexpensive possible solutions...
>
> Too late to contact the ship; find out if 12v dc is available?
> (At least we all have that in common, eh?
>
> And the possibility that they may be able to make friends
> with compatible English folks on board; perhaps get a
> charge or top-up once in a while. Specially if the new
> found friends have a fast charger.
>
> Just my tuppenny's worth
>
> Ken
>
I have been on two cruises in the last 4 years, on two different cruise
lines. Both ships had AC power available in both 110V at 50hz, and 220V
at 50Hz. I had no problem with using my charger with US plugs. Both
ships had recepticals with multiple configurations. Cruise ships are
well equipped for serving people from various countries.

--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
Anonymous
February 10, 2005 9:56:51 AM

Ken Weitzel <kweitzel@shaw.ca> wrote in message news:<SADOd.350058\$6l.27655@pd7tw2no>...

> > What sort of discharge rate would NiMH AA batteries have if they are
> > stored in a fridge?
> >
> > Thanks for any replies.
>
> Hi...
>
> Greetings from Canada (110 - 60)
>
> I suspect that given any chemical reaction will slow
> with reduced temperature that they would last longer in
> the fridge.

That's what I am hoping.

> I suspect that their biggest problem will be an insatiable
> desire to review their pics over and over again with the lcd;
> and then to share them with others on board. Add to that
> many of them will be taken indoors using the flash, and they're
> going to need lots of energy
>
> Think of a couple of possible easy and inexpensive possible solutions...
>
> Too late to contact the ship; find out if 12v dc is available?
> (At least we all have that in common, eh?

It's the P&O Oriana. From their website:-

http://www.pandocruises.com/focus_on/your_questions/QAP...

Can I use my hairdryer or electrical razor on board?

"Every cabin is fitted with a hairdryer, but should you wish to use
your own appliances, all the cabins are equipped with 3-pin standard
British-style sockets. The current on board is 220 volts AC at 60
cycles so all British-style dryers will operate. All bathrooms, too,
have razor sockets with 220/110 volt switchable sockets."

> And the possibility that they may be able to make friends
> with compatible English folks on board; perhaps get a
> charge or top-up once in a while. Specially if the new
> found friends have a fast charger.

That sounds like the best method.

> Just my tuppenny's worth

Anonymous
February 10, 2005 9:57:26 AM

Darren Wilson <dwilson@mailinator.com> wrote:
: I'm loaning a digital camera to my parents who are soon to go on a 3
: week cruise. Rather than having them worry about recharging batteries
: (the ship uses British connectors and 220V at 60 Hz, my charger has
: Australian fittings and uses 240V at 50 Hz), I had a thought that I
: could give them 3 or 4 sets of fully charged 2100mAh AA batteries to
: take with them for the camera.

: If left at room temperature, these extra batteries will lose a fair
: bit of their charge over the period of the trip. So, I figure if they
: are kept in a fridge, they shouldn't discharge as much.

: What sort of discharge rate would NiMH AA batteries have if they are
: stored in a fridge?

: Thanks for any replies.

I don't know for sure, but I would suspect that the charge retention would
go from days to min. I do know that on chilly mornings my freshly
recharged NiMH batteries tend to discharge much quicker than the same
batteries later in the day when the sun has warmed them (mostly notice
this on vacation). So I assume that cool to cold temps would tend to cause
the amount of charge present for use would be reduced if the batteries
were deliberately chilled. And this is aside from the problems associated
with condensation and moisture that happens when an object is taken from
cold to warm surroundings.

I think that you would be better served to go to your local electronics
store (Radio Shack, etc) for an inexpensive multi-voltage charger for
these batteries.

JMHO YMMV

Randy

==========
Randy Berbaum
Champaign, IL
Anonymous
February 10, 2005 10:57:56 AM

Ken Weitzel <kweitzel@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
>
>Darren Wilson wrote:
>
>> I'm loaning a digital camera to my parents who are soon to go on a 3
>> week cruise. Rather than having them worry about recharging batteries
>> (the ship uses British connectors and 220V at 60 Hz, my charger has
>> Australian fittings and uses 240V at 50 Hz), I had a thought that I
>> could give them 3 or 4 sets of fully charged 2100mAh AA batteries to
>> take with them for the camera.
>>
>> If left at room temperature, these extra batteries will lose a fair
>> bit of their charge over the period of the trip. So, I figure if they
>> are kept in a fridge, they shouldn't discharge as much.
>>
>> What sort of discharge rate would NiMH AA batteries have if they are
>> stored in a fridge?
>>
>> Thanks for any replies.
>
>Hi...
>
>Greetings from Canada (110 - 60)
>
>I suspect that given any chemical reaction will slow
>with reduced temperature that they would last longer in
>the fridge.
>
>I suspect that their biggest problem will be an insatiable
>desire to review their pics over and over again with the lcd;
>and then to share them with others on board. Add to that
>many of them will be taken indoors using the flash, and they're
>going to need lots of energy
>
>Think of a couple of possible easy and inexpensive possible solutions...
>
>Too late to contact the ship; find out if 12v dc is available?
>(At least we all have that in common, eh?
>
>And the possibility that they may be able to make friends
>with compatible English folks on board; perhaps get a
>charge or top-up once in a while. Specially if the new
>found friends have a fast charger.
>
>Just my tuppenny's worth
>
>Ken
>

As a guess, I'd think that taking one additional battery set would
offset the per/day drain of the batteries, and more.

--

a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m

Don't blame me. I voted for Gore.
Anonymous
February 10, 2005 12:32:02 PM

On 10 Feb 2005 03:23:19 -0800, dwilson@mailinator.com (Darren Wilson)
wrote:

>Ken Weitzel <kweitzel@shaw.ca> wrote in message news:<SADOd.350058\$6l.27655@pd7tw2no>...
>
>> > What sort of discharge rate would NiMH AA batteries have if they are
>> > stored in a fridge?
>> >
>> > Thanks for any replies.
>>
>> Hi...
>>
>> Greetings from Canada (110 - 60)
>>
>> I suspect that given any chemical reaction will slow
>> with reduced temperature that they would last longer in
>> the fridge.
>
>That's what I am hoping.

I've read batteries decay faster in the fridge. As I remember the
reason was that moisture condenses on the surface which creates a path
for a very tiny current leak. The article was addressing long term
storage, so I don't know if it applies to short term storage of
batteries that decay fast on the shelf like NiMHs.

Ken
Anonymous
February 10, 2005 2:15:21 PM

"Darren Wilson" <dwilson@mailinator.com> wrote in message
> I'm loaning a digital camera to my parents who are soon to go on a 3
> week cruise. Rather than having them worry about recharging batteries
> (the ship uses British connectors and 220V at 60 Hz, my charger has
> Australian fittings and uses 240V at 50 Hz), I had a thought that I
> could give them 3 or 4 sets of fully charged 2100mAh AA batteries to
> take with them for the camera.
>
> If left at room temperature, these extra batteries will lose a fair
> bit of their charge over the period of the trip. So, I figure if they
> are kept in a fridge, they shouldn't discharge as much.
>
> What sort of discharge rate would NiMH AA batteries have if they are
> stored in a fridge?
>
> Thanks for any replies.

Keep them in the fridge but the ship's PR director will be happy to charge
the batteries if they are depleted.
Anonymous
February 10, 2005 7:11:35 PM

Don't worry about it a room temps. After 24 hours they are pretty
stable. Chemical activity halves for about every 10 C. You have
moisture
problems with cooling.
Here's a discharge plot
http://store1.yimg.com/I/starbattery_1827_13558337
Anonymous
February 10, 2005 9:09:22 PM

"Darren Wilson" <dwilson@mailinator.com> wrote in message
> I'm loaning a digital camera to my parents who are soon to go on a 3
> week cruise. Rather than having them worry about recharging batteries
> (the ship uses British connectors and 220V at 60 Hz, my charger has
> Australian fittings and uses 240V at 50 Hz), I had a thought that I
> could give them 3 or 4 sets of fully charged 2100mAh AA batteries to
> take with them for the camera.

Does your charger specifically say 240V @ 50Hz, or does it perhaps
say 220-240V @50-60Hz?

If you are lucky enough to have that be the case, then you just need
a plug adapter, and they cost something like \$10 at dickies and
Jaycar.
Anonymous
February 10, 2005 9:09:23 PM

Brian Rusten wrote:
> "Darren Wilson" <dwilson@mailinator.com> wrote in message
>
>>I'm loaning a digital camera to my parents who are soon to go on a 3
>>week cruise. Rather than having them worry about recharging batteries
>>(the ship uses British connectors and 220V at 60 Hz, my charger has
>>Australian fittings and uses 240V at 50 Hz), I had a thought that I
>>could give them 3 or 4 sets of fully charged 2100mAh AA batteries to
>>take with them for the camera.
>
>
> Does your charger specifically say 240V @ 50Hz, or does it perhaps
> say 220-240V @50-60Hz?
>
> If you are lucky enough to have that be the case, then you just need
> a plug adapter, and they cost something like \$10 at dickies and
> Jaycar.
>
>
>
Note that NIMH batteries don't lose charge at low temperatures, they are
not able to deliver the charge until they warm up. If keeping them in
the fridge, they should be returned to room temperature before being put
in the camera.

--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
Anonymous
February 10, 2005 9:09:23 PM

"Brian Rusten" <brusten@optushome.com.au> wrote in message news:<420b087a\$0\$398\$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>...

> > I'm loaning a digital camera to my parents who are soon to go on a 3
> > week cruise. Rather than having them worry about recharging batteries
> > (the ship uses British connectors and 220V at 60 Hz, my charger has
> > Australian fittings and uses 240V at 50 Hz), I had a thought that I
> > could give them 3 or 4 sets of fully charged 2100mAh AA batteries to
> > take with them for the camera.
>
> Does your charger specifically say 240V @ 50Hz, or does it perhaps
> say 220-240V @50-60Hz?

Unfortunately both chargers I own specify 240V/50Hz. One also works
on 12V, but the ship doesn't have 12V outlets. :-(
February 10, 2005 9:37:44 PM

About a factor 5 lower discharge rate at 0degC compared with 20degC
according to a graph I saw in a technical pdf at GP batteries' web site a
while ago.

"Darren Wilson" <dwilson@mailinator.com> wrote in message
> I'm loaning a digital camera to my parents who are soon to go on a 3
> week cruise. Rather than having them worry about recharging batteries
> (the ship uses British connectors and 220V at 60 Hz, my charger has
> Australian fittings and uses 240V at 50 Hz), I had a thought that I
> could give them 3 or 4 sets of fully charged 2100mAh AA batteries to
> take with them for the camera.
>
> If left at room temperature, these extra batteries will lose a fair
> bit of their charge over the period of the trip. So, I figure if they
> are kept in a fridge, they shouldn't discharge as much.
>
> What sort of discharge rate would NiMH AA batteries have if they are
> stored in a fridge?
>
> Thanks for any replies.
Anonymous
February 10, 2005 10:09:13 PM

On 10 Feb 2005 03:23:19 -0800, Darren Wilson wrote:
> .... All bathrooms, too,
> have razor sockets with 220/110 volt switchable sockets."

A 220V 50HZ charger will run "ok" on 60HZ.
'Tis the other way 'round that is a problem. Transformers that are
designed for 60HZ (only) will run hot/cook/short between turns/melt
internal solder connections/release smoke when pugged into 50HZ mains.

A "razor socket" should supply the power (wattage) required of a
AA NiMH charger.

HTH
Jonesy
--
| Marvin L Jones | jonz | W3DHJ | linux
| Gunnison, Colorado | @ | Jonesy | OS/2 __
| 7,703' -- 2,345m | config.com | DM68mn SK
Anonymous
February 10, 2005 10:17:21 PM

On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 02:20:15 -0600, Ron Hunter wrote:
> Ken Weitzel wrote:
>> Darren Wilson wrote:
>>
>>> I'm loaning a digital camera to my parents who are soon to go on a 3
>>> week cruise. Rather than having them worry about recharging batteries
>>> (the ship uses British connectors and 220V at 60 Hz, my charger has
>>> Australian fittings and uses 240V at 50 Hz), I had a thought that I
>>> could give them 3 or 4 sets of fully charged 2100mAh AA batteries to
>>> take with them for the camera.
>>>
>>> If left at room temperature, these extra batteries will lose a fair
>>> bit of their charge over the period of the trip. So, I figure if they
>>> are kept in a fridge, they shouldn't discharge as much.
>>>
>>> What sort of discharge rate would NiMH AA batteries have if they are
>>> stored in a fridge?
>>
>> Greetings from Canada (110 - 60)
>>
>> I suspect that given any chemical reaction will slow
>> with reduced temperature that they would last longer in
>> the fridge.
>>
>> I suspect that their biggest problem will be an insatiable
>> desire to review their pics over and over again with the lcd;
>> and then to share them with others on board. Add to that
>> many of them will be taken indoors using the flash, and they're
>> going to need lots of energy
>>
>> Think of a couple of possible easy and inexpensive possible solutions...
>>
>> Too late to contact the ship; find out if 12v dc is available?
>> (At least we all have that in common, eh?
>>
>> And the possibility that they may be able to make friends
>> with compatible English folks on board; perhaps get a
>> charge or top-up once in a while. Specially if the new
>> found friends have a fast charger.
>>
>> Just my tuppenny's worth
>>
>
> I have been on two cruises in the last 4 years, on two different cruise
> lines. Both ships had AC power available in both 110V at 50hz, and 220V
> at 50Hz. I had no problem with using my charger with US plugs. Both
> ships had recepticals with multiple configurations. Cruise ships are
> well equipped for serving people from various countries.

Ya, but. Equipment with 60hz (power) transformers will not fare
well on 50hz -- even if the voltage rating is meet. Sure, you
could be lucky -- and maybe, just maybe the (Chinese) manufacturer
builds for the whole world; so they only stock and build with 50HZ-
capable transformers, and simply labeled the U.S. exports with the
required UL and saftey stickers that only mention 110V 60HZ.
Ya, you could be lucky.

As I mentioned up-thread: Equipment with 50hz transformers will do
"ok" on 60hz.

Equipment with 60hz motors on 50hz mains is a whole 'nuther matter.

Jonesy
--
| Marvin L Jones | jonz | W3DHJ | linux
| Gunnison, Colorado | @ | Jonesy | OS/2 __
| 7,703' -- 2,345m | config.com | DM68mn SK
Anonymous
February 11, 2005 6:17:48 AM

Ken Weitzel <kweitzel@shaw.ca> writes:

>> I'm loaning a digital camera to my parents who are soon to go on a 3
>> week cruise. Rather than having them worry about recharging batteries
>> (the ship uses British connectors and 220V at 60 Hz, my charger has
>> Australian fittings and uses 240V at 50 Hz), I had a thought that I
>> could give them 3 or 4 sets of fully charged 2100mAh AA batteries to
>> take with them for the camera.

Give them the charger too. Anything designed to run on 240 V 50 Hz will
almost certainly also work at 220 V 60 Hz (though the reverse is not
necessarily true). Then they don't have to worry about how much they
use the camera.

Dave
Anonymous
February 11, 2005 7:57:43 AM

On 9 Feb 2005 22:38:11 -0800, dwilson@mailinator.com (Darren Wilson)
wrote:

>Rather than having them worry about recharging batteries
>I had a thought that I could give them 3 or 4 sets of fully
>charged 2100mAh AA batteries to take with them for the camera.

Why not just send them with plain old AA batteries?
Anonymous
February 11, 2005 11:09:23 AM

On 10 Feb 2005 03:23:19 -0800, dwilson@mailinator.com (Darren Wilson)
wrote:

>It's the P&O Oriana. From their website:-
>
>http://www.pandocruises.com/focus_on/your_questions/QAP...
>
>Can I use my hairdryer or electrical razor on board?
>
>"Every cabin is fitted with a hairdryer, but should you wish to use
>your own appliances, all the cabins are equipped with 3-pin standard
>British-style sockets. The current on board is 220 volts AC at 60
>cycles so all British-style dryers will operate. All bathrooms, too,
>have razor sockets with 220/110 volt switchable sockets."

That strikes me as weird. Where would you get 220V / 60Hz equipment? All
of Western Europe - indeed all of Europe AFAIK - uses 230V / 50Hz. (Was
220V or 240V until recently, but the difference is trivial.)
North America uses AFAIK 110V / 60Hz throughout. I've visited nearly 40
countries, and I've never heard of 220V / 60Hz.

It seems to me at least possible that this is a typo on the website.
Might be worth enquiring further.

--
Stephen Poley
Anonymous
February 11, 2005 9:01:59 PM

"Darren Wilson" <dwilson@mailinator.com> wrote in message
> "Every cabin is fitted with a hairdryer, but should you wish to use
> your own appliances, all the cabins are equipped with 3-pin standard
> British-style sockets. The current on board is 220 volts AC at 60
> cycles so all British-style dryers will operate. All bathrooms, too,
> have razor sockets with 220/110 volt switchable sockets."

Weird. UK socket, but US voltage/frequency.

Anyway, have you considered buying them a fairly cheap charger that can
handle a wider voltage range?

e.g.
http://www.mittoni.com.au/catalog/product_info.php/prod...

You should be able to find something similar in a lot of shops.
Anonymous
February 11, 2005 9:49:05 PM

On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 03:23:19 -0800, Darren Wilson wrote:

> "Every cabin is fitted with a hairdryer, but should you wish to use your
> own appliances, all the cabins are equipped with 3-pin standard
> British-style sockets. The current on board is 220 volts AC at 60 cycles
> so all British-style dryers will operate. All bathrooms, too, have razor
> sockets with 220/110 volt switchable sockets."

It should be noted that prior to 1995, UK mains electricity was nominally
240v +/- 6% AC at 50Hz. In 1995, European Voltage Harmonisation
(<http://www.claude-lyons.co.uk/energy_saving.htm&gt;) meant we switched to
230v -6%/+10%. You'll note this includes the old UK standard of 240v and
the old continental standard of 220v. As a result, appliances built for
the old standards continued to work fine. I'd expect devices built for the
Australian market to respond similarly.

AFAIK, the only devices that should be affected by a change in mains
frequency are devices that generate a clock or timing from it - for
example, microwave ovens, analogue clocks, turntables and so on.

Therefore, as long as the charger is reasonably modern, I would expect it
to work with just a travel adaptor. Probably wise to check with the
manufacturer (or the spec sheet or label, at least), though.

HTH,
Alex.
--
Alex Butcher Brainbench MVP for Internet Security: www.brainbench.com
Bristol, UK Need reliable and secure network systems?
PGP/GnuPG ID:0x271fd950 <http://www.assursys.com/&gt;
Anonymous
February 11, 2005 9:49:06 PM

Alex Butcher wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 03:23:19 -0800, Darren Wilson wrote:
>
>
>>"Every cabin is fitted with a hairdryer, but should you wish to use your
>>own appliances, all the cabins are equipped with 3-pin standard
>>British-style sockets. The current on board is 220 volts AC at 60 cycles
>>so all British-style dryers will operate. All bathrooms, too, have razor
>>sockets with 220/110 volt switchable sockets."
>
>
> It should be noted that prior to 1995, UK mains electricity was nominally
> 240v +/- 6% AC at 50Hz. In 1995, European Voltage Harmonisation
> (<http://www.claude-lyons.co.uk/energy_saving.htm&gt;) meant we switched to
> 230v -6%/+10%. You'll note this includes the old UK standard of 240v and
> the old continental standard of 220v. As a result, appliances built for
> the old standards continued to work fine. I'd expect devices built for the
> Australian market to respond similarly.
>
> AFAIK, the only devices that should be affected by a change in mains
> frequency are devices that generate a clock or timing from it - for
> example, microwave ovens, analogue clocks, turntables and so on.
>
> Therefore, as long as the charger is reasonably modern, I would expect it
> to work with just a travel adaptor. Probably wise to check with the
> manufacturer (or the spec sheet or label, at least), though.
>
> HTH,
> Alex.

Switching power supplies are quite tolerant of voltage and frequency
variations, but diode type supplies are less so. Most power supplies in
chargers I have seen are the transformer/diode type.

--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
Anonymous
February 11, 2005 9:53:21 PM

On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 08:09:23 +0100, Stephen Poley wrote:

> On 10 Feb 2005 03:23:19 -0800, dwilson@mailinator.com (Darren Wilson)
> wrote:
>
>>It's the P&O Oriana. From their website:-
>>
>>http://www.pandocruises.com/focus_on/your_questions/QAP...
>>
>>Can I use my hairdryer or electrical razor on board?
>>
>>"Every cabin is fitted with a hairdryer, but should you wish to use your
>>own appliances, all the cabins are equipped with 3-pin standard
>>British-style sockets. The current on board is 220 volts AC at 60 cycles
>>so all British-style dryers will operate. All bathrooms, too, have razor
>>sockets with 220/110 volt switchable sockets."
>
> That strikes me as weird. Where would you get 220V / 60Hz equipment?

<http://users.pandora.be/worldstandards/electricity.htm&...;

South Korea, Peru, Philippines, some states in Brazil, Belize, Saudia
Arabia, Tahiti.

Best Regards,
Alex.
--
Alex Butcher Brainbench MVP for Internet Security: www.brainbench.com
Bristol, UK Need reliable and secure network systems?
PGP/GnuPG ID:0x271fd950 <http://www.assursys.com/&gt;
Anonymous
February 11, 2005 11:24:36 PM

On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 04:57:43 GMT, secheese <sec@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote:

> >Rather than having them worry about recharging batteries
> >I had a thought that I could give them 3 or 4 sets of fully
> >charged 2100mAh AA batteries to take with them for the camera.
>
> Why not just send them with plain old AA batteries?

Plain old AA's tend to wear out after 10 shots or less with digital cameras.
Anonymous
February 11, 2005 11:24:37 PM

On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 20:24:36 +1100, Ken Oaf <tipsy@beerlover.com.au>
wrote:

>On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 04:57:43 GMT, secheese <sec@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote:
>
>> >Rather than having them worry about recharging batteries
>> >I had a thought that I could give them 3 or 4 sets of fully
>> >charged 2100mAh AA batteries to take with them for the camera.
>>
>> Why not just send them with plain old AA batteries?
>
>Plain old AA's tend to wear out after 10 shots or less with digital cameras.

Really? I get 150 shots with my old digicam on ordinary alkaline
AA's; always have.
Anonymous
February 11, 2005 11:24:38 PM

"secheese" <sec@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message
news:rj4p01hfclksimjjjgll4lgodp8etiglem@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 20:24:36 +1100, Ken Oaf <tipsy@beerlover.com.au>
> wrote:
>
> >On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 04:57:43 GMT, secheese <sec@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote:
> >
> >> >Rather than having them worry about recharging batteries
> >> >I had a thought that I could give them 3 or 4 sets of fully
> >> >charged 2100mAh AA batteries to take with them for the camera.
> >>
> >> Why not just send them with plain old AA batteries?
> >
> >Plain old AA's tend to wear out after 10 shots or less with digital
cameras.
>
> Really? I get 150 shots with my old digicam on ordinary alkaline
> AA's; always have.
>
And I get about 85 shots with alkaline batteries with my 2 megapixel digital
camera (Nikon Coolpix 2100). So I guess some camera are better optimized for
alkaline battery usage than others.

In fact, that's actually a bit more photos than I have been able to take
with my current set of NiMH rechargables (Lenmar 2000 mAh), although I've
just recently purchased some 2400 mAh NiMH rechargables (XG branded).

However, it's still a considerable financial investment over time to
continue using alkaline batteries, when compared to the ability to charge
the rechargable batteries over and over again. I just carry three sets of
battery cells (3 sets of 2 AA cells) and then recharge them as necessary.
Anonymous
February 12, 2005 5:38:21 AM

Ron Hunter <rphunter@charter.net> writes:

>Switching power supplies are quite tolerant of voltage and frequency
>variations, but diode type supplies are less so. Most power supplies in
>chargers I have seen are the transformer/diode type.

True. But a transformer isn't going to mind 60 Hz when it's designed
for 50 Hz (since it will have more core iron than needed at the higher
frequency). The slightly lower input voltage is likely not *enough*
lower to cause a problem either, since all devices have to operate
when the input voltage is at least somewhat below nominal.

Dave
Anonymous
February 12, 2005 5:42:09 AM

On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 15:58:28 -0600, Ron Hunter <rphunter@charter.net>
wrote:

>Switching power supplies are quite tolerant of voltage and frequency
>variations, but diode type supplies are less so. Most power supplies in
>chargers I have seen are the transformer/diode type.

Switching power supplies are no more tolerant of input voltage or
frequency than any other type of supply. Switching power supplies
also use rectifiers (diodes). Switching power supplies have one, and
only one, advantage... and that is that all else being equal, the
components used in switching supplies are physically smaller than
regular supplies.
Anonymous
February 12, 2005 11:48:30 AM

On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 11:12:09 GMT, secheese <sec@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote:

> >> Why not just send them with plain old AA batteries?
> >
> >Plain old AA's tend to wear out after 10 shots or less with digital cameras.
>
> Really? I get 150 shots with my old digicam on ordinary alkaline
> AA's; always have.

A set of new Eveready Alkaline AA's gives me about 9 or 10 shots in my Fuji 602.
2100 NiMH give me over 300 shots.
Anonymous
February 12, 2005 11:48:31 AM

On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 08:48:30 +1100, Ken Oaf <tipsy@beerlover.com.au>
wrote:

>On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 11:12:09 GMT, secheese <sec@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote:
>
>> >> Why not just send them with plain old AA batteries?
>> >
>> >Plain old AA's tend to wear out after 10 shots or less with digital cameras.
>>
>> Really? I get 150 shots with my old digicam on ordinary alkaline
>> AA's; always have.
>
>A set of new Eveready Alkaline AA's gives me about 9 or 10 shots in my Fuji 602.
>2100 NiMH give me over 300 shots.
>

Unbelievable!
Anonymous
February 12, 2005 12:18:43 PM

On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 18:53:21 +0000, Alex Butcher
<alex.butcher.news1004@assursys.co.uk> wrote:

>On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 08:09:23 +0100, Stephen Poley wrote:
>
>> On 10 Feb 2005 03:23:19 -0800, dwilson@mailinator.com (Darren Wilson)
>> wrote:
>>
>>>It's the P&O Oriana. From their website:-
>>>
>>>http://www.pandocruises.com/focus_on/your_questions/QAP...
>>>
>>>Can I use my hairdryer or electrical razor on board?
>>>
>>>"Every cabin is fitted with a hairdryer, but should you wish to use your
>>>own appliances, all the cabins are equipped with 3-pin standard
>>>British-style sockets. The current on board is 220 volts AC at 60 cycles
>>>so all British-style dryers will operate. All bathrooms, too, have razor
>>>sockets with 220/110 volt switchable sockets."
>>
>> That strikes me as weird. Where would you get 220V / 60Hz equipment?
>
><http://users.pandora.be/worldstandards/electricity.htm&...;
>
>South Korea, Peru, Philippines, some states in Brazil, Belize, Saudia
>Arabia, Tahiti.

Thanks for that - you learn something new every day. (Though I note that
for Saudi Arabia the text and map seem to disagree.)

It still seems weird though. Given the possibilities of, on the one
hand, a website typo and the other hand that a cruise liner would set up
its electrical system for the convenience of tourists from that motley
collection of countries (but with British-style sockets!!), I still
think the typo is more likely.

--
Stephen Poley
Anonymous
February 12, 2005 10:36:37 PM

On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 22:01:27 +0000, secheese wrote:

> On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 08:48:30 +1100, Ken Oaf <tipsy@beerlover.com.au>
> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 11:12:09 GMT, secheese <sec@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote:
>>
>>> >> Why not just send them with plain old AA batteries?
>>> >
>>> >Plain old AA's tend to wear out after 10 shots or less with digital
>>> >cameras.
>>>
>>> Really? I get 150 shots with my old digicam on ordinary alkaline AA's;
>>> always have.
>>
>>A set of new Eveready Alkaline AA's gives me about 9 or 10 shots in my
>>Fuji 602. 2100 NiMH give me over 300 shots.
>>
>>
> Unbelievable!

Alkaline cells typically have a higher internal resistance than NiMH
cells. Alkalines are fine for low current applications, but high current
applications (e.g. some digital cameras) drain them quickly (though there
is often still plenty of power left for things like torches and clocks).

Best Regards,
Alex.
--
Alex Butcher Brainbench MVP for Internet Security: www.brainbench.com
Bristol, UK Need reliable and secure network systems?
PGP/GnuPG ID:0x271fd950 <http://www.assursys.com/&gt;
Anonymous
February 13, 2005 11:36:25 PM

NOsecSPAM@nbnet.nb.ca writes:

>>Switching power supplies are quite tolerant of voltage and frequency
>>variations, but diode type supplies are less so. Most power supplies in
>>chargers I have seen are the transformer/diode type.

>Switching power supplies are no more tolerant of input voltage or
>frequency than any other type of supply. Switching power supplies
>also use rectifiers (diodes).

It depends on the design. There are many switching supplies that will
operate from 100-240 V *without any configuration changes*. This
includes AC adapters and battery chargers for many cameras.

All that's necessary is for the designer to create a supply where all
the components can handle the internal voltages produced by 240 V input
(plus some additional margin), while ensuring that the supply can also
provide rated output voltage and current when the input is only 100 V.
It's not that hard. When the input voltage to the supply doubles from
120 V to 240 V, the internal circuitry simply adjusts the on-time of the
transistors in the internal inverter to about half of what it was,
maintaining the same output voltage.

The difference is not that switching supplies lack diodes (in fact they
have more of them). It's that switching supplies are a feedback circuit
that actively regulates output voltage, and the fact that it can be made
to operate over a wide range of input voltage.

(There are also linear regulator supplies, but they cannot handle a wide
range of input voltage because their efficiency is too poor, and they'd
generate too much heat. So the input voltage to the regulating stage
must be kept approximately the same as line voltage changes.)

>Switching power supplies have one, and
>only one, advantage... and that is that all else being equal, the
>components used in switching supplies are physically smaller than
>regular supplies.

The ability to have one power supply that can be plugged in to line
power anywhere in the world, without setting a switch first, is a large

Dave
Anonymous
February 17, 2005 11:25:18 PM

dwilson@mailinator.com (Darren Wilson) wrote:

> I'm loaning a digital camera to my parents who are soon to go on a 3
> week cruise. Rather than having them worry about recharging batteries
> (the ship uses British connectors and 220V at 60 Hz, my charger has
> Australian fittings and uses 240V at 50 Hz), I had a thought that I
> could give them 3 or 4 sets of fully charged 2100mAh AA batteries to
> take with them for the camera.
>
> If left at room temperature, these extra batteries will lose a fair
> bit of their charge over the period of the trip. So, I figure if they
> are kept in a fridge, they shouldn't discharge as much.
>
> What sort of discharge rate would NiMH AA batteries have if they are
> stored in a fridge?
>
I'd Advise getting them their own charger - yours when they come home. I
have a FujiFilm charger FNW-D it's 50/60hz AC 100-240v and will charge a
set of 4 NiMH 2300s in about 3 hours. It even has a built-in US/Japan
style 2 pin plug and weighs 100g.
!