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Laptop powered down (blew it?) when using a old win95 char..

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Anonymous
a b D Laptop
April 12, 2005 11:52:09 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

hello

a friend brought a laptop to me with no power cable.. a new acer
1.8ghz. i tried using my toshiba satillite cable but it wouldnt fit. i
had an old power supply from my old win95 IBM laptop. i tried this
cable and it fit and seemed to charge fine. i checked the specs (
amp/voltage) and they seemed identical.. now this acer has powered
down and will not turn on. what did i blow in the laptop/power supply
and is it easily fixed?

tia

sugarme
April 12, 2005 8:33:19 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

sugarme wrote:
> hello
>
> a friend brought a laptop to me with no power cable.. a new acer
> 1.8ghz. i tried using my toshiba satillite cable but it wouldnt fit. i
> had an old power supply from my old win95 IBM laptop. i tried this
> cable and it fit and seemed to charge fine. i checked the specs (
> amp/voltage) and they seemed identical.. now this acer has powered
> down and will not turn on. what did i blow in the laptop/power supply
> and is it easily fixed?


I don't know any specifics about that particular laptop...but it is
possible that you blew some sort of fuse on the motherboard.

This is just speculation...but the adapter that you plugged in may be
rated for the same output voltage, but could have a higher current limit
or different method of implementing current limit which popped some
protection device.


(*>
April 13, 2005 2:18:37 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

Hawk <taoHawk2003@yahoo.com> wrote:
: sugarme wrote:
: > hello
: >
: > a friend brought a laptop to me with no power cable.. a new acer
: > 1.8ghz. i tried using my toshiba satillite cable but it wouldnt fit. i
: > had an old power supply from my old win95 IBM laptop. i tried this
: > cable and it fit and seemed to charge fine. i checked the specs (
: > amp/voltage) and they seemed identical.. now this acer has powered
: > down and will not turn on. what did i blow in the laptop/power supply
: > and is it easily fixed?


: I don't know any specifics about that particular laptop...but it is
: possible that you blew some sort of fuse on the motherboard.

: This is just speculation...but the adapter that you plugged in may be
: rated for the same output voltage, but could have a higher current limit
: or different method of implementing current limit which popped some
: protection device.


Well...current is generally an input function not an output function,
i.e. the input device can draw as much as it needs. You can't supply
"too much current" to a device. (You could supply too high a voltage
though - easily.)

A fuse would blow if too much current was being drawn in to the
laptop. That would happen because of something on the laptop side of
the fuse, drawing too much in, not the power supply putting too much
out.

To the original poster:

Possibilities: the 2nd power supply is running out of its rated spec
(even if it says 19V doesn't mean it's EXACTLY 19V). The older laptop
from which this 2nd supply came might have been more tolerant of
voltage swing than the current laptop on which you are trying to use
it.

There's also the possiblity that ground and + were swapped between the
laptop connector and the adaptor. Unfortunately, there seems to be no
standard with that between devices. But if that happened, you could
definitely have fried something in the laptop.

Can the laptop run off the battery without the supply attached?

Andrew
--
----> Portland, Oregon, USA <----
*******************************************************************
----> http://www.bizave.com <---- Photo Albums and Portland Info
----> To Email me remove "MYSHOES" from email address
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Anonymous
a b D Laptop
April 13, 2005 2:18:38 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

Andrew wrote:
> Hawk <taoHawk2003@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> sugarme wrote:
>>> hello
>>>
>>> a friend brought a laptop to me with no power cable.. a new acer
>>> 1.8ghz. i tried using my toshiba satillite cable but it wouldnt
>>> fit. i had an old power supply from my old win95 IBM laptop. i
>>> tried this cable and it fit and seemed to charge fine. i checked
>>> the specs ( amp/voltage) and they seemed identical.. now this acer
>>> has powered down and will not turn on. what did i blow in the
>>> laptop/power supply and is it easily fixed?
>
Have you since tried the laptop with the correct power supply?
>
>> I don't know any specifics about that particular laptop...but it is
>> possible that you blew some sort of fuse on the motherboard.
>
Seems more likely to have blown the old power supply...subject to actually
checking the machine with the proper supply....

>> This is just speculation...but the adapter that you plugged in may be
>> rated for the same output voltage, but could have a higher current
>> limit or different method of implementing current limit which popped
>> some protection device.
>
He 'said' the voltage and *amps* were the same...although how he determined
that info without having the proper supply at hand, is open to speculation.
I'm skeptical of the above. 'An old win95 laptop' would be unlikely to
require the current drawn by the newer machines.
>
> Well...current is generally an input function not an output function,
> i.e. the input device can draw as much as it needs. You can't supply
> "too much current" to a device. (You could supply too high a voltage
> though - easily.)

Or too low a voltage, increasing the current drawn from the supply...blowing
a fuse rated near the optimum current at the rated voltage.
>
> A fuse would blow if too much current was being drawn in to the
> laptop. That would happen because of something on the laptop side of
> the fuse, drawing too much in, not the power supply putting too much
> out.
>
> To the original poster:
>
> Possibilities: the 2nd power supply is running out of its rated spec
> (even if it says 19V doesn't mean it's EXACTLY 19V). The older laptop
> from which this 2nd supply came might have been more tolerant of
> voltage swing than the current laptop on which you are trying to use
> it.
>
> There's also the possiblity that ground and + were swapped between the
> laptop connector and the adaptor. Unfortunately, there seems to be no
> standard with that between devices. But if that happened, you could
> definitely have fried something in the laptop.

Unlikely, based on his observation that it 'seemed to charge fine.' I once
had a little b&w TV with a 1 amp 12v wall wart. A room mate plugged it into
a little 12v 200 milliamp supply, then complained of a shrunken picture. I
plugged in the proper supply, and all seemed well for a week or so, then the
set died completely. I suspect that was the cause.

jak
>
> Can the laptop run off the battery without the supply attached?
>
> Andrew
April 13, 2005 2:18:38 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

Andrew wrote:
> Hawk <taoHawk2003@yahoo.com> wrote:
> : sugarme wrote:
> : > hello
> : >
> : > a friend brought a laptop to me with no power cable.. a new acer
> : > 1.8ghz. i tried using my toshiba satillite cable but it wouldnt fit. i
> : > had an old power supply from my old win95 IBM laptop. i tried this
> : > cable and it fit and seemed to charge fine. i checked the specs (
> : > amp/voltage) and they seemed identical.. now this acer has powered
> : > down and will not turn on. what did i blow in the laptop/power supply
> : > and is it easily fixed?
>
>
> : I don't know any specifics about that particular laptop...but it is
> : possible that you blew some sort of fuse on the motherboard.
>
> : This is just speculation...but the adapter that you plugged in may be
> : rated for the same output voltage, but could have a higher current limit
> : or different method of implementing current limit which popped some
> : protection device.
>
>
> Well...current is generally an input function not an output function,
> i.e. the input device can draw as much as it needs. You can't supply
> "too much current" to a device. (You could supply too high a voltage
> though - easily.)
>
> A fuse would blow if too much current was being drawn in to the
> laptop. That would happen because of something on the laptop side of
> the fuse, drawing too much in, not the power supply putting too much
> out.
>

You can supply too much current to a device...if that device happens to
be a discharged battery. Your assumption that the draw of the system
should be fairly constant is ok, but you have to take the charging of
the battery into account.

If you have a simple fixed voltage charging a battery (without any sort
of control circuitry) the output current from the source will start out
at some high value and taper off as the voltage of the charging battery
rises to meet the source.

There has to be some sort of current limit on the output of the
adapter...otherwise when you plug it into a system with a dead battery,
the output current could be huge. It would be a function of the
adapters output voltage, the battery's voltage, resistance in the
connection, the current draw from the motherboard, and the amount of
current capability inherent in the charger design. You have to limit
the amount of total current to a reasonable value so you don't
overstress the wire, connector, and traces on any circuit boards.

If the old adapter that he plugged in had a higher current limit than
the original unit...the discharged battery + the normal load from the
system could indeed pull more current than the original adapter allowed
(and that an onboard protection device could handle). Of course the
critical factor here is the location of the protection device.

The bottom line is, he used an adapter that varied from the intended
approach and roasted something.

It is probably one of the following possibilities...

Scenario 1:
PS/Adapter------BATTERY------FUSE------SYSTEM

or

Scenario 2:
PS/Adapter------FUSE------BATTERY------SYSTEM

or even possibly

Scenario 3:
PS/Adapter------FUSE------BATTERY------FUSE------SYSTEM

I could go on with further scenarios...there are other variations where
there are protection devices incorporated into the battery, charging
circuitry in the battery, etc.

I spent many years designing this type of hardware and there are many
ways to implement similar functionality.


(*>
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
April 14, 2005 8:28:59 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

<snip>


Thanks for the quick replys. I have since had no change in the status
of the device.

@andrew
>>Can the laptop run off the battery without the supply attached?

No it will not power on at all. The battery was well over 50% when it
crashed.

@jakdedert
>>Have you since tried the laptop with the correct power supply?
The correct power supply consisted of two cables. The main cord to the
laptop was irregualar, as it is german (the laptop is german; german
keyboard, XP etc). It was a three pin socket (.'.). This is the part we
have, the three female cord is missing as it was misplaced. I would be
looking to fix this without sending the laptop away to a professional.
Would it be an easy DIY job? Where can i get the replacement cable if
not from the manufacturers?

Cheers
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
April 14, 2005 1:24:45 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

hodexut wrote:
> <snip>
>
>
> Thanks for the quick replys. I have since had no change in the status
> of the device.
>
> @andrew
>
>>>Can the laptop run off the battery without the supply attached?
>
>
> No it will not power on at all. The battery was well over 50% when it
> crashed.
>
> @jakdedert
>
>>>Have you since tried the laptop with the correct power supply?
>
> The correct power supply consisted of two cables. The main cord to the
> laptop was irregualar, as it is german (the laptop is german; german
> keyboard, XP etc). It was a three pin socket (.'.). This is the part we
> have, the three female cord is missing as it was misplaced. I would be
> looking to fix this without sending the laptop away to a professional.
> Would it be an easy DIY job? Where can i get the replacement cable if
> not from the manufacturers?
>
> Cheers
>
check this out
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3...

now if you are in North America, that should do the trick. Otherwise,
you will still need a 220/240v adapter plug.
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
April 14, 2005 3:02:22 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

hodexut wrote:
> <snip>
>
>
> Thanks for the quick replys. I have since had no change in the status
> of the device.
>
> @andrew
>>> Can the laptop run off the battery without the supply attached?
>
> No it will not power on at all. The battery was well over 50% when it
> crashed.
>
> @jakdedert
>>> Have you since tried the laptop with the correct power supply?
> The correct power supply consisted of two cables. The main cord to the
> laptop was irregualar, as it is german (the laptop is german; german
> keyboard, XP etc). It was a three pin socket (.'.). This is the part
> we have, the three female cord is missing as it was misplaced. I
> would be looking to fix this without sending the laptop away to a
> professional. Would it be an easy DIY job? Where can i get the
> replacement cable if not from the manufacturers?
>
You're going to have to try it with the original p.s. first. Make sure that
it accepts whatever your local voltage (U.S.=120v) is...most do. The power
cords are pretty universal. There is likely a cord which fits both your
p.s. and the wall outlet. Once you determine that....

jak

> Cheers
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
April 14, 2005 3:06:07 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

Hawk wrote:
>
> You can supply too much current to a device...if that device happens
> to be a discharged battery. Your assumption that the draw of the
> system should be fairly constant is ok, but you have to take the
> charging of the battery into account.

The above (and below) assumes that the external p.s. contains all of the
circuitry to charge the battery. In most (all?) cases, this is not true.
The laptop itself has the charger circuitry, and there is a fair amount of
active electronics built into most laptop batteries as well.

jak
>
> If you have a simple fixed voltage charging a battery (without any
> sort of control circuitry) the output current from the source will
> start out at some high value and taper off as the voltage of the
> charging battery rises to meet the source.
>
> There has to be some sort of current limit on the output of the
> adapter...otherwise when you plug it into a system with a dead
> battery, the output current could be huge. It would be a function of
> the adapters output voltage, the battery's voltage, resistance in the
> connection, the current draw from the motherboard, and the amount of
> current capability inherent in the charger design. You have to limit
> the amount of total current to a reasonable value so you don't
> overstress the wire, connector, and traces on any circuit boards.
>
> If the old adapter that he plugged in had a higher current limit than
> the original unit...the discharged battery + the normal load from the
> system could indeed pull more current than the original adapter
> allowed (and that an onboard protection device could handle). Of
> course the critical factor here is the location of the protection
> device.
>
> The bottom line is, he used an adapter that varied from the intended
> approach and roasted something.
>
> It is probably one of the following possibilities...
>
> Scenario 1:
> PS/Adapter------BATTERY------FUSE------SYSTEM
>
> or
>
> Scenario 2:
> PS/Adapter------FUSE------BATTERY------SYSTEM
>
> or even possibly
>
> Scenario 3:
> PS/Adapter------FUSE------BATTERY------FUSE------SYSTEM
>
> I could go on with further scenarios...there are other variations
> where there are protection devices incorporated into the battery,
> charging circuitry in the battery, etc.

Also, devices built into the laptop itself.

jak

>
> I spent many years designing this type of hardware and there are many
> ways to implement similar functionality.
>
>
> (*>
!