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Are there compatibility issues with PCI-E 2.0-2.1 with 1.0?

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
a b α HP
January 19, 2011 3:42:24 PM

I'm upgrading my HP pre-built PC's graphics card to an HD5570 or 5670 or GT220 or GT240; I'll decide when I see the prices in the computer shop I'm going to.

Here is my mobo:

http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?docname=c00...

It's exactly the same but without the integrated graphics, since it came with a 7300LE they removed them off the mobo to save money lol.

Anyways I have PCI-Express 1.0 and all those cards are 2.0 or 2.1, all I have is 300 AED ($80) - I'm 14, and although they are supposed to be backwards compatible I hear about a lot about cards just not working.
Some solutions include BIOS updates and I have to use the HP BIOS updates which HP doesn't have! They only have one from 2007, some time while PCI-E 2.0 was just released or even before!

I can't use the ECS update because HP changes the motherboard therefore I may get errors.

Should I be worried about the cards not working?

I've been doing so much heavy searching and out of every corner comes another possibility- first my PSU, I get over that and then, my computer, is it worth the upgrade?

I already solved those but now I found out that a lot of people are having issues with PCI-E 2.1 and 2.0 in 1.0 boards, what should I do? I feel so scared of wasting the last of my money, I can't buy off Newegg because I live in the UAE, nor will my warranty by the after maker (Sapphire, EVGA... etc) work because I'd have to ship it across the Atlantic!

I feel so pissed off now after all the searching I've been doing for the past few weeks and then according to what I read on people's experience and issues with these cards- all 2.0 and 2.1 cards in 1.0 boards it doesn't even sound as if they are close to being backwards compatible!
a c 358 U Graphics card
a b α HP
January 19, 2011 4:13:29 PM

PCI-e 2.1 card in PCI-e 1.0 slot = problems

PCI-e 2.0 card in PCI-e 1.0 slot = OK
a b U Graphics card
January 19, 2011 5:27:03 PM

Sometimes yes sometimes no. They are 'supposed' to be backwards compatable and I've used 2.1 cards in 1.0 slots without issue, but there are too many reports of problems to not believe it can be an issue, so if you have a choice always go with a 2.0 card if you have a 1.0 slot.
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Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
a b α HP
January 20, 2011 2:50:11 AM

so I should get the 2.0 versions of the cards?
Will there still be chances of problems?
Can anyone else give me more feedback on this?
a c 171 U Graphics card
January 20, 2011 3:26:39 AM

you know this question comes up all the time. can someone write something up and sticky it? Also an explanation as to why 2.1 is not compatable with 1.x when it is supposed to be backward compatable would e awesome. Shouldn't graphics card makers display on their box or specs what slots it is compatable with?
a b U Graphics card
January 20, 2011 4:12:30 AM

^ That includes some important information from me. :) 

As I said within that post, as well as many other posts since researching the issue, all HD5000-series cards are in fact PCI-E 2.1. Some are (mis)labeled as PCI-E 2.0 when they are simply PCI-E 2.0-compatible, which it will often clearly state within their listed specs. (These same specs very, very rarely label the card as a PCI-E 2.1 device, specifically.) It's misleading, but at the same time, it's not. Why? Because the cards do work in 2.0 boards, and those are the only ones specifically touted. There are no claims these cards will work in 1.x boards. Yet, they are calling the cards 2.0, which most of us have long since assumed will work in 1.x boards due to how quickly everyone embraced and adopted the 2.0 standard.

As to why 2.1 cards don't work in all PCI-E 1.x slots, it's because the board makers never updated the board's BIOS to enable 2.1 compatibility. Some did, some didn't, so it's hit-or-miss with any 1.x board.

The PCI-E 2.0 standard was implemented with great fervor, mostly due to it's huge bandwidth advantage over 1.x. Thus, enabling support for 2.0 devices on 1.x boards was also done with great fervor because device manufacturers switched to it, ending most 1.x device production. Things were a bit different when it came to the 2.1 standard. Motherboards didn't need an update to support 2.1 cards because 2.1 is fully 2.0-compatible. When 2.1 devices came to light, a similar update to the one needed to enable support for 2.0 devices on 1.x boards was needed yet again to allow for compatibility with a new standard. Unfortunately, 1.x boards had long since ceased production, with a large portion of them having lost all manufacturer support years earlier. No manufacturer support = no update = no 2.1 support.

Though not a guarantee, I often advise people that if the most recent BIOS release for their board is older than mid-to-late 2009, (which is also when the 5000-series cards were released, thus bringing PCI-E 2.1 devices to the masses) then it's unlikely the board will support 2.1 cards.

So, in a nutshell, YES there ARE compatibility issues with PCI-E 2.1 devices in 1.x boards, but not all 1.x boards.
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
a b α HP
January 20, 2011 4:27:36 AM

RazberyBandit said:
^ That includes some important information from me. :) 

As I said within that post, as well as many other posts since researching the issue, all HD5000-series cards are in fact PCI-E 2.1. Some are (mis)labeled as PCI-E 2.0 when they are simply PCI-E 2.0-compatible, which it will often clearly state within their listed specs. (These same specs very, very rarely label the card as a PCI-E 2.1 device, specifically.) It's misleading, but at the same time, it's not. Why? Because the cards do work in 2.0 boards, and those are the only ones specifically touted. There are no claims these cards will work in 1.x boards. Yet, they are calling the cards 2.0, which most of us have long since assumed will work in 1.x boards due to how quickly everyone embraced and adopted the 2.0 standard.

As to why 2.1 cards don't work in all PCI-E 1.x slots, it's because the board makers never updated the board's BIOS to enable 2.1 compatibility. Some did, some didn't, so it's hit-or-miss with any 1.x board.

The PCI-E 2.0 standard was implemented with great fervor, mostly due to it's huge bandwidth advantage over 1.x. Thus, enabling support for 2.0 devices on 1.x boards was also done with great fervor because device manufacturers switched to it, ending most 1.x device production. Things were a bit different when it came to the 2.1 standard. Motherboards didn't need an update to support 2.1 cards because 2.1 is fully 2.0-compatible. When 2.1 devices came to light, a similar update to the one needed to enable support for 2.0 devices on 1.x boards was needed yet again to allow for compatibility with a new standard. Unfortunately, 1.x boards had long since ceased production, with a large portion of them having lost all manufacturer support years earlier. No manufacturer support = no update = no 2.1 support.

Though not a guarantee, I often advise people that if the most recent BIOS release for their board is older than mid-to-late 2009, (which is also when the 5000-series cards were released, thus bringing PCI-E 2.1 devices to the masses) then it's unlikely the board will support 2.1 cards.

So, in a nutshell, YES there ARE compatibility issues with PCI-E 2.1 devices in 1.x boards, but not all 1.x boards.





I understand and now I'm going for NVIDIA, because the GT series doesn't even support 2.1 so I can be sure that it's 2.0

Will 2.0 work with my 1.0 mobo, I bought it in 2007, and the latest BIOS update from HP is 2007 a day later, that is the same year that 2.0 came out.

If 2.0 wasn't out when I bought my computer would it still support it?
a b U Graphics card
January 20, 2011 6:41:53 AM

A PCI-E 2.0 card will work in your system. All 2.0 cards are fully compatible with all 1.x boards, so no matter when 2.0 was released, a 2.0 card would work in your system.

Anything from the GT-2xx series, older GTS/X-2xx series, older ATI/AMD HD4000 series, or even earlier cards will work just fine, provided your PSU can handle it. Technically, you could install an Nvidia Fermi-based (GTS/X-4xx or GTX-5xx) card in it, as Nvidia still manufactures all their cards using a PCI-E 2.0 interface. Radeon cards in the 5000 and 6000 series are the only cards that have been built using a PCI-E 2.1 interface.

The only drawback to using a PCI-E 2.0 card in a 1.x slot is the card becomes bandwidth-limited to PCI-E 1.x speed. That said, not many 2.0 cards can fully saturate a PCI-E 1.x slot's available bandwidth anyway, so it's not really a big deal.
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
a b α HP
January 20, 2011 6:47:12 AM

RazberyBandit said:
A PCI-E 2.0 card will work in your system. All 2.0 cards are fully compatible with all 1.x boards, so no matter when 2.0 was released, a 2.0 card would work in your system.

Anything from the GT-2xx series, older GTS/X-2xx series, older ATI/AMD HD4000 series, or even earlier cards will work just fine, provided your PSU can handle it. Technically, you could install an Nvidia Fermi-based (GTS/X-4xx or GTX-5xx) card in it, as Nvidia still manufactures all their cards using a PCI-E 2.0 interface. Radeon cards in the 5000 and 6000 series are the only cards that have been built using a PCI-E 2.1 interface.

The only drawback to using a PCI-E 2.0 card in a 1.x slot is the card becomes bandwidth-limited to PCI-E 1.x speed. That said, not many 2.0 cards can fully saturate a PCI-E 1.x slot's available bandwidth anyway, so it's not really a big deal.


I already know about the bandwidth thing but thanks, I feel so relieved, I thought all my searching (for 2 months) had gone to waste, now I know every single graphics card that can run on a 300w PSU and every card that wouldn't be bottlenecked by a PD 925 lol.

Thank you very much!
!