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How to make the EE playable again

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Anonymous
August 16, 2005 2:48:56 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Make them immune to grav mines, the grav effects of Nova mines, and
maybe GWG's too.

They were crippled by the HYP changes. The recent Bad Blood changes
really stuffed them. If they could, at least, be sure that they could
HYP onto enemy worlds then it would re-introduce an element of, well,
wargaming to VGAP4.

I'm a reasonable player but I consider them unplayable now.
--
Paul Honigmann

More about : make playable

Anonymous
August 16, 2005 2:48:57 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Yes and no, hype effecting mines do make life hard on the EE.

They are much harder to play now but still arent the weakest race
around.
But there are stronger,,,,,,still fun to play.
But you do need an ally at some point now as you will surely be ganged
up against.

Income and Growth is a problem now more then ever though.

Either Bad Blood needs to be viewable in your prison population so that
you
stand a chance at getting your prison camps producing or EE Growth and
normal
income needs to be impoved.

Maybe both, EE ships have been priced allowing for the large cash from
prison camps.

But as I am against constantly improving and increasing the strengths
of races even though last changes actually reduced their strength, I
would suggest just the ability to view Bad blood ratings would b the
ticket. Maybe for all races with a modest dark powers???

Cheers.
Leeroy.
ps. Wouldn't suggest EE for beginners...:) 
Dont forget the recent bad blood changes have effected all races and
has definitely
even with the above suggestion put prisoners out of the income
generating game for all other races except for maybe the Dracs
interestingly enough.
August 16, 2005 5:20:26 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Sorry, I don't think this is a good idea and would make the EE way too
powerful!

What we need are not more exceptions to the rules, but a simplification
instead! The problem was caused by the EE and Liz making too much money
by slavery. That brought us the introduction of BB. Unfortunately this
can be circumvented, if one has the knowledge and patience to go thru
the necessary pain. So the EE can already be brought back to the old
level, which makes any additional benefits unnecessary. No, I would
rather suggest another approach:
1) Get rid of the BB
2) Get rid of the x4 multiplier for the EE LCs or reduce it to x2
together with 5)
3) Make (some) EE ships cheaper
4) Tune down Liz pris selling rates
[5) Tune down LCs and LMs in general, as without the BB they still
produce too much?]
Related resources
Anonymous
August 16, 2005 5:44:58 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

I think that would be too much.

Giving a Tractor beam of 4600 to the Super Star Frigate could help them
attack in middle late game, when Grav mine / Grav well generator are all
over the place.

P.S..
The Rebel could also have one of their ship get a speed increase to 40-50
and get a Tractor beam of 2150.

Lord Lancelot
Anonymous
August 16, 2005 7:45:48 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

More of that Primate Sarcasm I am always missing?

"KlingonKommand" <Paul@nurk.fnord> wrote in message
news:cprWsqBI3QADFwWd@furfur.demon.co.uk...
> Make them immune to grav mines, the grav effects of Nova mines, and
> maybe GWG's too.
>
> They were crippled by the HYP changes. The recent Bad Blood changes
> really stuffed them. If they could, at least, be sure that they could
> HYP onto enemy worlds then it would re-introduce an element of, well,
> wargaming to VGAP4.
>
> I'm a reasonable player but I consider them unplayable now.
> --
> Paul Honigmann
Anonymous
August 16, 2005 9:04:46 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

So the EE can already be brought back to the old level <snip>


Actually, they can be brought back to _better_ than the old level, with
camps hitting 80+% of the time. It just takes work.

This BB change makes the EE (and labor camp races in general) weaker in
the beginning, but late game (if you know what you are doing) they
actually get stronger.

Some think they have trouble making it to late game now... but IMO,
that was the problem of races like the UA & Fed before... the EE could
just come in and capture all of their colonists, then become
unstoppable.

What the BB change does do though is make the LIZ weak again... though
I'm hesitant to say this is a truth since I haven't actually played
them yet since the change... it's just theory.
August 16, 2005 11:11:22 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Spreading LCs is something a good EE player should do anyway, to lower
the death rate. ;-O To make this really a limitation the number would
need to be around 100(?)! That means one would need 100 planets with
each 100 LCs (each LC can take 100 colos, so it is 100 * 100 * 100) to
have room for 1 Mill colos. In early game one probably doesn't have
that much space, which means only in midgame, after having pushed the
neighbours "a bit", this would be possible. Until then only few (which
need to be gotten first) can go to the LCs. If a LC limitation will
really put into place, then the negative effects of the LCs should be
removed, as otherwise the own colos and assets are always at risk -
which is too much considering the fact that it will already be
difficult enough to "own" that many planets.
Anonymous
August 16, 2005 12:15:20 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Races that have a max of 190 (or less) need a way to deal with hyp
races, and grav mines is the best way. They already are basicly immune
to other mines by the very nature of hyp movment.

I do agree they need something like maybe more of a bonus in gather
contraband (like being able to gather as much as if population was x2)

I personally don't like the idea of a races that depends on taking
someone out in early game just to still be in the game so that aspect
of EE has never appealed to me much. And the above will help keep them
aggrisive.
Anonymous
August 16, 2005 2:34:14 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

**I personally don't like the idea of a races that depends on taking
someone out in early game just to still be in the game so that aspect
of EE has never appealed to me much.**

But it does appeal to many players... I like the idea of a race such as
them for players to have a choice.
Anonymous
August 16, 2005 2:36:25 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

***One problem with the EE, I think, is that BB is optimised for high
population games. You can't get sufficient BB when enemy population is
just a few million. ***

I think you can with mechs... it doesn't matter how many colonists you
kill with them... just the # of mechs used.
Anonymous
August 16, 2005 6:35:03 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

"Sparrow" <e.kueper@gmx.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:1124180426.906393.130860@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> Sorry, I don't think this is a good idea and would make the EE way too
> powerful!
>
> What we need are not more exceptions to the rules, but a simplification
> instead! The problem was caused by the EE and Liz making too much money
> by slavery. That brought us the introduction of BB. Unfortunately this
> can be circumvented, if one has the knowledge and patience to go thru
> the necessary pain. So the EE can already be brought back to the old
> level, which makes any additional benefits unnecessary. No, I would
> rather suggest another approach:
> 1) Get rid of the BB
> 2) Get rid of the x4 multiplier for the EE LCs or reduce it to x2
> together with 5)
> 3) Make (some) EE ships cheaper
> 4) Tune down Liz pris selling rates
> [5) Tune down LCs and LMs in general, as without the BB they still
> produce too much?]

[6] Lower max working number of LCs and LMs. Perhaps bind them to number of
colonists at base which is always a good thing.
[softens the effects of capuring HW in early game, which was said to be
overpowered.]
Anonymous
August 16, 2005 8:38:27 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

"Sparrow" <e.kueper@gmx.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:1124201482.765856.105580@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Spreading LCs is something a good EE player should do anyway, to lower
> the death rate. ;-O To make this really a limitation the number would
> need to be around 100(?)! That means one would need 100 planets with
> each 100 LCs (each LC can take 100 colos, so it is 100 * 100 * 100) to
> have room for 1 Mill colos. In early game one probably doesn't have
> that much space, which means only in midgame, after having pushed the
> neighbours "a bit", this would be possible. Until then only few (which
> need to be gotten first) can go to the LCs. If a LC limitation will
> really put into place, then the negative effects of the LCs should be
> removed, as otherwise the own colos and assets are always at risk -
> which is too much considering the fact that it will already be
> difficult enough to "own" that many planets.
>

All true. I would suggest max 500 camps per base with camps only working if
there are 1000 colos. per LC present.
Then, of course, the the LC should always work with no side effects. This
could also depend on the number of troops present. (Say [#HG + #Troops/100]
has to be bigger then #LC).

and, of course, as mentioned above: bad blood needs to be removed.
Anonymous
August 16, 2005 10:16:03 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Beezle <someone@microsoft.com> writes
>More of that Primate Sarcasm I am always missing?

No, I think there is something serously wrong with EE balance. (Remember
I have played them a lot and written a guide for them, and still find
them unplayable.) By posing a challenging question, I hope to get people
thinking about novel approaches.

Sparrow's point about ditching BB is good but remember that BB was
introduced to stop people selling their own folk for slaves, and sharing
the profit.

One problem with the EE, I think, is that BB is optimised for high
population games. You can't get sufficient BB when enemy population is
just a few million.
--
Paul Honigmann
Anonymous
August 17, 2005 3:01:57 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

How about if they had a way of working their own colonists to death for
extra income. . .

Tim
August 17, 2005 7:00:15 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

cocomax wrote:
> How about if they had a way of working their own colonists to death for
> extra income. . .
>
> Tim

Oh yes, please do that. It has been a while since we last had such a
change with the introduction of the Lizard prisoner selling...
August 17, 2005 8:35:43 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

But one should have at least some kind of protection! What fun is it if
any turn an EE fleet can show up right on top of your HW, accompanied
with lots of H-Ross for mine sweeping and laying?! That is already a
problem for non Grav MF / GWG races, it should not be extended to all.
Anonymous
August 17, 2005 9:09:22 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

No no no no! ;-)
The last thing the EE needs is more money.
What they desperately need is more RP and/or a way to deal with the
myriads of minefields that races like the crystals can lay. Maybe a
barbitic minelayer or a minefield destabilizer on one of the cheaper
hulls (i.e. not the Slayer, Gorbie, or Super Star Destroyer), or
seomthing like that.
....My $0.02.
Anonymous
August 17, 2005 12:05:06 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Who said anything about more $$ ???

The EE have always done fine for me late game. If the enemy has that
much stuff that you are short RP's, then maybe you should have quit
messing around and killed them off earlier.. :-) IMO, that is how
they are supposed to be played.

I do admit that the EE were very tough before, especially since some
races couldn't stop their turn 4-5 attack on a HW. But then again,
it's not like a Borg showing up on turn 8-10 with an Anni or 2 to
assimilate your HW is any more fun, or the Rebel showing up with tons
of wings and blasting your ships to bits, or the UEA sending in a
half-dozen Arbitrators to blast all of your secondary bases... I just
think that some races are early game races (those that can field a
mighty military early) and some are late game races (those with RP's
that happen to survive long enough) and some (like the Dracs) are
no-time-in-the-game races. And remember, if that first attack by the
EE fails, it's pretty much over for them as a viable game winner.
Anonymous
August 17, 2005 4:32:09 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

They should be getting a pretty big RP boost because they are a slow
growth race. I so no problem giving them 20% extra RP if that is all
they need to boost things.

Maybe they need a bad blood report that tells them their standing with
other races, it soulds like a pretty cool dark power. . ..

Tim
Anonymous
August 17, 2005 5:05:03 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

No way... not with their clone lab.
Anonymous
August 17, 2005 5:08:39 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

I think players just need to be more aggressive with them and not play
for the long game to solve the RP problem, but that's my personal
opinion. A 20% boost would help some I guess.

If we're boosting RP's take a quick look at the Solorians. Theirs were
cut for their high growth rate, then their growth rate was crushed with
the last change to their growth.

As far as knowing bad blood, that would be a nice report, kinda along
the lines of how the Rebels get to know who is allied.
Anonymous
August 17, 2005 6:11:40 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

"cocomax" <cocomax@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1124258517.062720.317040@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> How about if they had a way of working their own colonists to death for
> extra income. . .
>
> Tim

We had an entry before which was to have a Command Code like "BBG" Bad Blood
Games which kill some of your troops and some of your Prisoners to increase
bad blood. (Like gladiator games in a arena, maybe increasing happyness of
your colonies too)
Or maybe there could be the possibility to let your own people work in your
labor camps with a command code :) 

Kind regards, splitted
Anonymous
August 17, 2005 6:23:22 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

What is the problem here? Lack of MC? Lack of RP because of slow growth? Is
this a late game problem?

Does the EE fall apart in some maps/setups or against some particular mixes
of races?

Is the real problem very expensive ships and a need in the late game to
generate huge amount of money to pay for large numbers of expensive ships?

There are races strong early (the EE is one) and strong late. You can't be
strong on all map densities at all stages of the game. I thought the EE was
one of the races that had to win early (or at least get an overwhelming
superiority early) or lose. Is that still the case?

Before fixing a problem you need a very clear idea of what is wrong at
present.
Anonymous
August 17, 2005 6:31:49 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

I'd rather the growth rate was made slightly more accessible (starheat
>86 or so) rather than just leaving it to luck and writing it off.
Anonymous
August 17, 2005 8:07:06 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

All races with camps should get the bad blood report.

EE could get bad blood report from others races ( a bit like the Rebel
alliance report).

"cocomax" <cocomax@aol.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
1124307128.906770.257900@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> They should be getting a pretty big RP boost because they are a slow
> growth race. I so no problem giving them 20% extra RP if that is all
> they need to boost things.
>
> Maybe they need a bad blood report that tells them their standing with
> other races, it soulds like a pretty cool dark power. . ..
>
> Tim
>
Anonymous
August 17, 2005 8:42:25 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

The problem with RPs only surfaces in very large, long games, where
everyone else's exponential growth vastly outpaces the EE's, and you
can't get enough minerals to build enough Slayers to keep up.

That's not unbearable against many races, where one decent EE ship is
worth several enemy ships, you can focus firepower in very large wings
to economize on RP, and your mobility means you can concentrate your
limited forces better than just about anyone. It's those darned oceans
of gravs, when you could afford scores of HRosses but only have the RP
for 2 - that's when it's heartbreaking.

Because growth is exponential, I fear that a percentage increase in RPs
will only serve to delay the problem's onset, not solve it.

Except for late in these large, long games, the EE are still very
playable. In smaller, faster games, the EE kicks butt all over the
place.
....
A Bad Blood Report sounds like an excellent idea! I love the idea of
being able to see bad blood between other races, too. Kind of like
surges in the Dark Side, when lots of people get killed. Blood spills.
Chaos reigns. Feels good!
Anonymous
August 18, 2005 4:44:21 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Eliminate Bad Blood... so all problems are over...

Join ABBC (Anti Bad Blood Corporation)... ;p
Anonymous
August 18, 2005 4:51:17 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

NO.... just eliminate Bad Blood... why so much micromanagement??? why
to make more and more changes to justify BAD BLOOD???

Join ABBC... (Anti Bad Blood Corporation)
Anonymous
August 18, 2005 4:54:47 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

And Dracs????... what about Dracs??... the forgotten race. Since many
years ago EE was an playable race (some times hard to play, but ever
hard to beat)... no sense so much changes...

Join ABBC...
Anonymous
August 18, 2005 8:34:18 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

The key to the low growth races getting more RPs is to use MC for exotic
growth.

I can run through the math, but the low growth races with exotic growth do
not grow as fast as the high growth races, but close the gap considerably.

For example the EE get about a 5 fold boost from exotic cloning while the
Scavs get a 2.5 fold boost.

The key to cloning is clone at least a little early in the game (so those
people "compound" for the whole rest of the game.

People think cloning is only for the Xtals and Scavs, where the opposite is
true.

"cocomax" <cocomax@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1124307128.906770.257900@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> They should be getting a pretty big RP boost because they are a slow
> growth race. I so no problem giving them 20% extra RP if that is all
> they need to boost things.
>
> Maybe they need a bad blood report that tells them their standing with
> other races, it soulds like a pretty cool dark power. . ..
>
> Tim
>
Anonymous
August 18, 2005 8:34:19 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

What Dave said.

What are people asking for? A race that no one can stop early, no one can
stop late, and which requires no effort or forethought to play?

If you pick the EE you are under a tight time constraint. Win early.

<david_bandy@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1124291106.809926.75920@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Who said anything about more $$ ???
>
> The EE have always done fine for me late game. If the enemy has that
> much stuff that you are short RP's, then maybe you should have quit
> messing around and killed them off earlier.. :-) IMO, that is how
> they are supposed to be played.
>
> I do admit that the EE were very tough before, especially since some
> races couldn't stop their turn 4-5 attack on a HW. But then again,
> it's not like a Borg showing up on turn 8-10 with an Anni or 2 to
> assimilate your HW is any more fun, or the Rebel showing up with tons
> of wings and blasting your ships to bits, or the UEA sending in a
> half-dozen Arbitrators to blast all of your secondary bases... I just
> think that some races are early game races (those that can field a
> mighty military early) and some are late game races (those with RP's
> that happen to survive long enough) and some (like the Dracs) are
> no-time-in-the-game races. And remember, if that first attack by the
> EE fails, it's pretty much over for them as a viable game winner.
>
August 18, 2005 9:28:17 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

david_bandy@hotmail.com wrote:
> No way... not with their clone lab.

You did realize that I was ironic?
August 18, 2005 9:30:42 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Beezle wrote:
> What Dave said.
>
> What are people asking for? A race that no one can stop early, no one can
> stop late, and which requires no effort or forethought to play?
>

That is the impression I did get a long time ago. Heck in some cases I
am getting the feeling that some 3rd party race creators are tempted to
go in that direction (whether they know it or not).
August 18, 2005 9:32:10 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Myflowers wrote:
> And Dracs????... what about Dracs??... the forgotten race. Since many
> years ago EE was an playable race (some times hard to play, but ever
> hard to beat)... no sense so much changes...
>

I do not think that anything will be changed about that as long as the
opinion of some experienced players is like this about the Dracs:"You
have probably the second most dangerous unregistered ship
in the game. Because of the distance between players you should be able
to
get all the techs (and money) you require very swiftly using the
government
centres. your only weakness is growth rate."


You see what was not taken into account here is that most other races
are faster, the Dracs do not have alchemy, no hyp protection, ships
(due to the part costs and sometimes engine count) which are not
cheaper than the ships of other races, the Krait which is relatively
expensive (if you want to have it with speed above 50!) because of the
parts (or from a different viewpoint: a ship which needs too many
metals for its fighting power), a ship list which has except for barb
minelayers and sweepers not many devices worth mentioning which are not
on the Draco Class Starbase which can only be towed by the Krait(and
non-native ships), pod bay ships (and ships which have a tow capacity
worth mentioning - tow capability below 100 is not worth mentioning)
which do always need at least two engines (especially funny if the
ships are also relatively expensive if they have pod bays), fighters
which are not worth been build (under current vcr) unless the enemy
ships do not have any pds able to shot at them, a JG builder which is
only there as a sort of alibi (to be able to say hey they have got a JG
builder so they are not that slow), high tech ships which are not worth
building because of the lack of attack and evasive modifier (and the
partly totally screwed up weapon sizes)...(and many other implied by
the above)...
Just having a growth rate of ie. the birds will not do that much for
that they have too many other disadvantageous (or the other races too
many advantageous).

And then Tim does not seem to consider it his problem, in the beginning
of 2004 someone did took over for the care of the Dracs and a few
suggestion for changes were brought forth from him... but so far
nothing did happen. (That is aside from having other host changes
reducing the chances of the Dracs some more).
August 18, 2005 10:01:46 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Beezle wrote:
> The key to the low growth races getting more RPs is to use MC for exotic
> growth.

Well no the key to low growth races is winning early, or keeping the
enemy population in check (depending on what whether your main income
source are prisoners or spice), as in the beginning they do have a
rather large pie (especially since in the beginning a few more bases
will give you a rather large rp increase as a low growth race). And
then I remember a game as Cent where I did have a share of about(over?)
5000 rps because the enemy races where decimated and most of their
population was on just one base (mine was not). I had about 2% of the
galactic population (turn 28 or so). And then this is a rather extreme
example. The EE actualy has also that chance (the Dracs do not).

> I can run through the math, but the low growth races with exotic growth do
> not grow as fast as the high growth races, but close the gap considerably.
>

I can run through the math, too. And afterwards you will notice that it
depends on the viewpoint. As it is the growth gets increased by a fixed
percentage.
This means that yes the growth increase for low growth races is higher.
But it also means that with a higher initial population the ETs are
worth more (especially money wise - tax income). And then honestly the
slayer is a better investment for the money (EE). And the PSPs are
better investments for the Cents (especially because of the chance of
getting new amorphous worms via PSPs. That will only be a few thousand
but a few thousand means a whole lot of mcs. And will at least cover
the running costs of the PSPs.) since it can give a much higher
population increase (I usually build at least 1 on about every base, I
had the resources (and time) to spare for, even if no natives in
range). And for the Dracs the ETs are just too expensive, 8 k mc are
better invested somewhere else (shield ETs etc.) and they will not get
the money for the higher TOT levels (unless they do get a whole lot of
prisoners actualy working) and even then I would see the money spend
there as wasted before I do have a sufficient high population.
And then aside from the ETs being worth more for high growth races, the
ETs are only able to close (to some extend) the gap if they are not
used by the higher growth races also. If the high growth races do have
enough food the difference in the growth rate will be the same. If it
would be a factor (not additive)
the gap would even increase (under the assumption that enough food is
present)!
And how likely is it that the Feds,Scavs (consider the discount),Xtals
etc. are not going to spend money for it before the low growth races?

>
> People think cloning is only for the Xtals and Scavs, where the opposite is
> true.
>

Well unless I have a food issue I would use the ETs with the Scavs and
Xtals before I would use it with the low growth races (I do not
consider the borg a low growth rate race, because of the king and
assimilation).
Anonymous
August 18, 2005 4:21:52 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

I also don't like Micomanagement, so if the bad blood stays there must be a
way to simplify getting it higher

because shipping pods of Prisoners to an empty Planet,
landing your own troops and faking ground assault
and repeat ...is just boooring and stupid and time consuming ...

I don't care if bad blood itself is staying, because I understand the
regulation issue, although I think its complicated.

Kind regards,
Jörn

"Beezle" <someone@microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:uLHMe.181$L03.105@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net...
> What is the problem here? Lack of MC? Lack of RP because of slow growth?
> Is
> this a late game problem?
>
> Does the EE fall apart in some maps/setups or against some particular
> mixes
> of races?
>
> Is the real problem very expensive ships and a need in the late game to
> generate huge amount of money to pay for large numbers of expensive ships?
>
> There are races strong early (the EE is one) and strong late. You can't be
> strong on all map densities at all stages of the game. I thought the EE
> was
> one of the races that had to win early (or at least get an overwhelming
> superiority early) or lose. Is that still the case?
>
> Before fixing a problem you need a very clear idea of what is wrong at
> present.
>
>
Anonymous
August 18, 2005 4:58:12 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

No real problems... just lean the new rules.
Anonymous
August 18, 2005 5:07:32 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

**Well no the key to low growth races is winning early, or keeping the
enemy population in check (depending on what whether your main income
source are prisoners or spice), as in the beginning they do have a
rather large pie (especially since in the beginning a few more bases
will give you a rather large rp increase as a low growth race). **


Man... this is twice in a row I agree with you... what's going on. :-)

This is EXACTLY what you guys aren't understanding. Quit messing
around and go kill the guys with a high growth rate.
August 19, 2005 4:16:41 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Is even more complicated rules really what we need? Just think of all
the newbies! For veterans it is easily said, but I fear we soon or
already reached a point where new players say: "This is too complicated
and too much, I will go somewhere else which is more fun immediately".

I say VGAP needs to be simplified or we will loose the player base!
Anonymous
August 19, 2005 6:38:17 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

<david_bandy@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1124395092.846531.64910@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> No real problems... just lean the new rules.

Yeah, just take your paring knife and cut all the fat out of them (works
with Evil Emperors too).
Anonymous
August 19, 2005 8:37:33 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

My real problem with BB is that it makes some players (like me) even
better with the EE, not cripple them as this whole thread suggests.
They could too if they just bothered to learn the new rules.

That said, I'd rather BB be removed, but for a different reason that
Myflowers. My reason is that it actually had the opposite of the
intended effect. Instead of making prisoner exchange less likely, it
actually made it more powerful.
!