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z77 Motherboard Discussion

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March 3, 2012 6:38:41 PM

I'm just waiting for Ivy Bridge and the z77 motherboards to come out and the reviews. Which z77 board will be the best for the money? I'm curious to find out if there's any noticeable performance increase with the new z77 mobos over the z68?

Here's all the z77's I can find right now:

ASUS P8Z77-V Deluxe

ASRock Z77 Fatal1ty Professional-M

MSI Z77A-GD65 'Ivy Bridge' Motherboard Preview

Gigabyte's GA-Z77X-UD3H and GA-Z77X-UD5H

I was hoping the z77's might have done away with the USB 2.0, sata 2 and PCIe 2.0 and make the switch over to all gen 3 since they are backwards compatible, why not.

So, how much better are these z77 motherboards over the z68's, really?
a c 716 V Motherboard
March 3, 2012 8:20:36 PM

Probably none of the above, typically the PRO but have to see the specs, OC, you name it... I assume there will be an ASUS P8Z77-V PRO.

However, you'll be waiting until about May for the Ivy Bridge CPUs with the Z77 MOBOs available earlier. Further, IMO add on to that at least 2+ months for early adopters to get the bugs worked out ;) 

Intel as you know had the B2 bug, but they also pooched their SB-E with another C1 Vt-d bug -- ever notice the lack of i7-3930K ... most all the i7-3960X currently selling are being sold with the C1 bug...until they all sell-out.
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a b V Motherboard
March 3, 2012 9:50:00 PM

THe best way to buy these MB's is next year when the majority of the users already have a first hand experienced of these MOBO's reviewed and benched marked.
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March 3, 2012 10:10:09 PM

So true, wait till next year.
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March 3, 2012 10:43:49 PM

Crapola, i doubt my current system, built in 2004, will hold out 'til next year. I'll be lucky to make it 'til June as my system is on its last leg already.

Here's the thread on my next new build: New Ivy Bridge Work Build

Here's some of my current system (more may be found in my thread above):

CPU: AMD 1.6 Sempron (upgraded to 2.1 Athlon 3200 last year)

Mobo: MSI RS480M

http://www.msi.com/product/mb/RS480M.html

http://www.xpcgear.com/msirs480mil.html

GPU: onboard (LOL) :o 

ATI Radeon Xpress 200 Series
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xpress_200
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a c 716 V Motherboard
March 3, 2012 11:05:10 PM

Then get an LGA 2011 with a SB-E; the newest offering is the 4-core/8-thread i7-3820 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

It's a cheap LGA 2011 CPU, OC's to 4.5GHz~4.8GHz using CPU Ratio (up to x43) and CPU Strap 125MHz * 38 = 4.75GHz @ 1.4v vCore. Further, the LGA 2011 offers Quad Channel, Native PCIe 3.0 (CPU/MOBO/HD 7000 series), 32 lanes of PCIe 3.0 to run up to 4-WAY CF/SLI PCIe 3.0 @ x8/x8/x8/x8 == same as PCIe 2.0 x/16/x16/x16/x16. Even the Ivy Bridge is HALF that at 16 lanes.
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March 3, 2012 11:58:17 PM

Anyone want to gander at what the prices of these boards are going to be?
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March 4, 2012 9:16:50 PM

jaquith said:
Probably none of the above, typically the PRO but have to see the specs, OC, you name it... I assume there will be an ASUS P8Z77-V PRO.

However, you'll be waiting until June or more than likely July for either the Ivy Bridge CPUs and/or the Z77 MOBOs. Further, IMO add on to that at least 2+ months for early adopters to get the bugs worked out ;) 

Intel as you know had the B2 bug, but they also pooched their SB-E with another C1 Vt-d bug -- ever notice the lack of i7-3930K ... most all the i7-3960X currently selling are being sold with the C1 bug...until they all sell-out.

A response:

"The B2 bug was in the 6 series chipset, which has been fixed and gone for a very long time now. All the 6 series chipsets are now B3 that fixed the SATA 3 bug that only about 2% of people would ever have seen.

The C1 stepping bug is Vt-d which most people wont use but its already fixed and the new steppings should be rolling out pretty soon as they were set to come out when the quad core LGA2011 CPU came out."
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a c 716 V Motherboard
March 4, 2012 11:43:48 PM

I know exactly what the problems are, what they did, failure rates, impacts, you name it. Oddly, the C2 degrades more rapidly than the C1, but NONE of that was my point.

My point is, Intel has given enough doubts 'just recently' not to be an Early Adopter.

So I stand firmly on exactly what I said and unwavering, "Further, IMO add on to that at least 2+ months for early adopters to get the bugs worked out."
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March 7, 2012 6:22:36 PM

^ Thanks for that video.

I don't consider myself a gamer (well, some minor online games now & again) so, I'm trying to decide which z77 board is best for my needs, I've been eying the Gigabyte UD5 or UD3? Any prices on those yet?

1. What would I do with a pair of Ethernet ports? What's that for?

2. I really wanted a PS/2 port too, which the UD5 doesn't include.

3. What will I miss out on w/o FireWire in the UD3?

4. The UD3 also swaps the Intel Ethernet port for the the Realtek audio chip from VIA. Is that okay?
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a c 716 V Motherboard
March 7, 2012 7:07:55 PM

Q&A:
1. Dual is really use to host a LAN party more than anything. You need a specialized router for any other purpose.

2. Far be it from me to argue against a PS/2 port(s).

3. FireWire is primary used in A/V situations and if e.g. your camcorder needs one then you'll need a separate card, but they're cheap.

4. Clearly Intel LAN is superior, and Realtek for onboard audio is fine. VIA doesn't impress me too much, and IMO produces mediocre chips.

I'd stick to the ASUS PRO line that I discussed earlier. My overall experience is the UD3 lines are built too cheaply for me to recomend, but the UD5 and UD7 lines are generally good.
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March 7, 2012 8:40:49 PM

^ Thanks for that, Jaquith. I'm just some old guy trying to make sure I get what I need/want. So, I really appreciate the help here.

I was only seriously considering a Gigabyte motherboard because my local computer shop highly recommended them. They say that Gigabyte gets less returns and other problems in their own personal experience. I just want whatever is best for the best price, of course. I will keep my new system until it dies so a long lifespan and great quality are very important to me.
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a c 716 V Motherboard
March 7, 2012 9:53:08 PM

IDK about that, I guess it depends on what they're selling and their profit margins. Most of the GA's X79 were so bad that GA pulled them off the shelves. Not to mention ditto recalls on bad batches of LGA 1155 UD5 and UD7's. Overall the failure rates are about 2%~3% across all MOBO's, and my experience, 10K+ posts, I would beg to differ.

Further, as I mentioned and it's only prudent to allow "...at least 2+ months for early adopters to get the bugs worked out...
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March 8, 2012 12:55:08 PM

I do like those Asus boards. What do you think of the z77's by MSI?

I don't see any way around it, I will have to wait a couple months or so to allow time for any bugs to be worked out before I purchase anything. I just can't risk getting a lemon as that would ruin everything.
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a c 716 V Motherboard
March 8, 2012 2:21:19 PM

Say now which is better is really impossible, I can only gauge from the past and 'assume' for the future. Therefore, IMO it's a wait and see. Generally, my preferences are ASUS and often EVGA; Gigabyte and MSI are often not my first picks.
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March 8, 2012 7:30:34 PM

^ What is it about Asus makes you prefer them over Ga & MSI? Quality?
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March 8, 2012 7:30:58 PM

Quote:
I can't imagine that the costs would really go up that much by simply getting rid of the USB 2.0, PCIe 2.0 and Sata 2 and going with all gen 3. How much more does it cost, really? I mean, please explain. I think it's actually a smarter business move because more people would be willing to buy a more complete 'next generation' board rather than this half-assed old mixed with new stuff.

In a couple more years, as mentioned above, by 2014 the gen 2 stuff will be old and obsolete. I keep my systems until they die so, I'd prefer a full on gen 3 board because I know in 2 years on from now I'll cringe every time I need gen 3 port but I'm stuck with a gen 2 port or slot. They're backwards compatible but not forward compatible - who wants soon to be obsolete stuff on their motherboard?

Quote:
Well, you have yield issues with new tech for one, then you have all those wonder licensing fees. Then you have the testing to make sure your implementation is correct [remember the SATA debacle on P67 motherboards?], which takes time and money. Plus, you have a lack of real need at present, so there isn't a huge giant demand or need to move to new tech right this moment.

Besides, by keeping new tech exclusive to super-high-end boards, you get to jack up the price even more. Remember DDR3 on LGA775?


Thanks for the response. These are honest and sincere questions from me as I really don't know anything about it. I'm not sure how much yield issues or licensing has to do with it because they're not really brand new technologies they're just upgrades going from gen 2 to gen 3. However, "keeping new tech exclusive to super-high-end boards" - okay that I get.

Now I am curious, how long did it take to go from USB 1, PCI 1 and Sata 1 to gen 2? How long before gen 1 was obsolete? Whatever the answer I would think it would be much quicker going from gen 2 to gen 3 since sooo many more people have computers today.
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a c 716 V Motherboard
March 8, 2012 7:44:14 PM

First ASUS, none of the MOBO manufactures are perfect, not even close. ASUS seems to pay a little better attention to OC'ing while others don't. Reliability, I can show you all day negative comments about ANY MOBO all day long. ASUS just is better in the 'big picture.'

USB, SATA, etc is a whole different type of 'saturation', in order to saturate the GPU's PCIe requires resolutions that simple are not available. Once you start seeing 4K and 8K monitors as common place then I'll be all worried about saturating PCIe 2.0 x8 or maybe x16.

Nice article on scaling - http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GTX_480_PCI-E...
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a c 716 V Motherboard
March 9, 2012 10:33:02 AM

I've seen that site before, but doesn't breakdown the data into detail like other reports I've seen.

For example, Intel's B2 recall the theoretical failure rate is 100%. MOBO's are hodgepodges of a sea of chipsets. The ASUS's add more chips on their MOBO's than most others: additional USB, Bluetooth, additional VRM, additional SATA/eSATA, etc.

So to a degree the more 'stuff' you add then the higher the risk of one sub-component going poof. However, then the failure rate for e.g. 'should' be much higher ... it's not (ASUS).
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March 10, 2012 6:20:20 AM

DO NOT MAKE A SETUP FOR NEW IVY/Z77 YET, UNLESS YOU CRAZY FOR IT AND WASTE MONEY. DO IT NEXT YEAR.
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March 10, 2012 3:28:13 PM

Humm, I'm impressed with the new GIGABYTE Ultra Durable 4 technology:

"GIGABYTE Ultra Durable 4 motherboards embrace a range of exclusive technologies that guarantee DIY PC builders the absolute best protection for their PC, with built-in features that prevent common malfunction threats users encounter on a day-to-day basis."

"lowers the PCB impedance by 50%, which helps to reduce electrical waste and further lowers component temperatures. A 2X Copper layer design also provides improved signal quality and lower EMI (Electromagnetic Interference), providing better system stability and allowing for greater margins for overclocking."

"GIGABYTE Ultra Durable 4 motherboards have been designed to make sure that humidity is never an issue, incorporating a new Glass Fabric PCB technology that repels moisture caused by humid and damp conditions. Using a new kind of PCB material which reduces the amount of space between the fiber weave, Glass Fiber PCB technology makes it more difficult for moisture to penetrate compared to traditional motherboard PCBs. This offers much better protection from short circuit and system malfunction caused by humid and damp conditions."

"All GIGABYTE Ultra Durable™ 4 motherboards use high quality IC microchips that are rated with higher electro-static discharge (ESD) resistance than traditional IC implementations. GIGABYTE Ultra Durable™ 4 motherboards use ICs with up to 3 times the ESD resistance levels compared to traditional ICs. This helps to better protect the motherboard, its components and the PC in general against potential damage caused by static electricity, a common threat to today's PCs."

"Power Failure Protection GIGABYTE Ultra Durable 4 motherboards also feature special anti-surge ICs that protect your motherboard, and your PC, from any surge in power delivery that may occur, helping to ensure that your PC is equipped to deal with any kind of irregular and inconsistent power delivery."

http://www.gigabyte.com/press-center/news-page.aspx?nid...

http://www.gigabyte.com/microsite/306/images/ud4.html

---

So, I'm curious to find out just how much all this new stuff really works. Will it work as claimed?
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a c 716 V Motherboard
March 10, 2012 3:54:34 PM

All MOBO's have their lists of "My stuff is better than theirs." The question is compared to what? I'll spare you the copy/pastes of ASUS, EVGA, MSI. etc.

I try to have an open mind until I can 'see' what they offer, failure rates, warranties, and how they OC and perform.
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March 11, 2012 5:10:57 PM

^ Agreed. That's why I posted it; I'm curious to find out just how accurate those claims really are.
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March 11, 2012 6:50:38 PM

Here are just a few more claims I'd like to find out just how accurate they are:

Quote:
Lucid Universal MVP Support

GIGABYTE 7 series motherboards support Lucid Virtu GPU virtualization technologies - optimized virtualization software that improves your PC’s visuals, with faster response times, improved video processing and smoother media playback, all within a low power environment.

Lucid Universal MVP also features Hyperformance, which eliminates redundant rendering tasks and predicts potential synchronization issues in the graphics delivery pipeline, producing faster frame rates, sharper visuals and reduced tearing.

• Boosts responsiveness and FPS of any game
• Improves gaming frame rates 30-70%
• Increases Vsync frame rates – 120 FPS+
• Sharpens visual quality without tearing
• Works seamlessly with hundreds of games

http://www.gigabyte.com/microsite/306/images/graphics.h...
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a c 716 V Motherboard
March 11, 2012 7:14:49 PM

^Those are Intel's HD specs (using Lucid Virtu) and has nothing to do with any MOBO. The thing that separates one MOBO from another are it's Phases and type to CPU, RAM and in some cases to the iGPU. Then there's the gamut of doodads and usable features (SATA, eSATA, PCIe ports, etc).

BTW - most folks that render don't use Quick Sync, and instead prefer the quality of the a CPU render.
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March 15, 2012 1:49:50 AM

I was planning on making a Z77/Ivybridge/7970 set up by late August, guess I should wait though? I was planning on blowing about $3000 on a whole new set up thats watercooled...really don't feel like waiting
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a c 716 V Motherboard
March 15, 2012 11:59:14 AM

As I mentioned in the OP's other very similar post, I'd allow the early adopters work out all of the bugs first, see what other folks experiences are and allow 2~3 BIOS revisions.

Being first isn't always best. Often I see 2nd revisions of the MOBO work perfectly while 1st revisions were so bad they were pulled out of production.

My 2 cents.
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a c 716 V Motherboard
April 2, 2012 3:20:02 PM

What you posted above only had to do with early 'GEN3' P67/Z68 MOBOs, and doesn't pertain to anything out now and especially not the Z77's.

So move forward.

You might wan to see this post "Ivy Bridge CPUs on Z77 Benchmarks & Review - i7-3770K & i5-3570K" -> http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/329828-28-bridge-cpus...
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April 2, 2012 3:36:39 PM

Okay, so that issue was resolved and is no longer an issue.

I did read your thread over the weekend. I was pretty disappointed with the performance of the Ivy Bridge tests there at Tweaktown. It was getting beat by the older Sandy Bridge CPU's and the i5 IB were about the same as the i7 IB CPU's. I'm not sure how it could've been much worse to be honest.

Those results from Tweaktown were completely different than what Anandtech posted here: The Ivy Bridge Preview: Core i7 3770K Tested

It makes me wonder how much longer will I have to wait after Ivy CPU's do finally come out at the end of April before I buy? Will 2 months be enough time for Intel and mobo makers to fix all the bugs and the bios? That Tweaktown review makes me think they'll need about 6 months or more.
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a c 716 V Motherboard
April 2, 2012 4:11:51 PM

If you read what I stated in my post, it's the Z77 that's the culprit and either a driver(s) or BIOS or combination of both. Again, for Gaming none of those CPU's bottleneck 1-2 GPUs in SLI/CF...
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April 2, 2012 5:11:43 PM

^ I did see that. I'm still also taken a back by how different the test results were from Tweaktown vs Anandtech as well.

So how long should we expect it to take to fix the z77 driver/bios issues and any other CPU bug issues? Is 2 months enough or no?
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a c 716 V Motherboard
April 2, 2012 5:24:52 PM

From my 1st post here -- "However, you'll be waiting until June or more than likely July for either the Ivy Bridge CPUs and/or the Z77 MOBOs. Further, IMO add on to that at least 2+ months for early adopters to get the bugs worked out..." ;) 
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April 2, 2012 6:22:29 PM

^ I do remember that too. That's why I was wondering if 2 months was enough with all things considered i.e. drivers/bios and bugs for both mobos and CPU's etc. I had planned on waiting 2 months. Now, it looks like you're suggesting an additional 2 months putting us to Aug/Sept.

I wish I could wait longer but my work computer is from 2004 and I'm not sure how much longer it's going to last as it's on it's last leg.

Will these z77 issues be with all mobo makers across the board or just a couple specific makers?
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a c 716 V Motherboard
April 2, 2012 7:23:45 PM

If the problem is a Chipset drivers then it's a 'global' problem, and if it's a BIOS issue then it's typically limited to the entire lines of a specific MOBO manufacturer.

Hmm...4 years is about my limit unless what I've got really works and works well. In the past 2 years the performance has made a monumental leap and since X58/LGA 1366 no too much for most users. The LGA 1366 and particularly the 6-cores hold their own with the current SB.

It really depends on what you're doing, 95% of the folks out there do mundane stuff: web, email, watch a movie and office type apps which ANY current CPU is just about overkill. For them or any mini PC -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuUUn3a1AIY&
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a c 716 V Motherboard
April 5, 2012 10:53:02 PM

I guess it depends on the game and resolution if there's a benefit or loss.
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April 7, 2012 11:34:53 PM

I'm curious if Intel will come out with a z78? Like the z67 and z68 or are they stopping at the x79?

When will motherboards stop carrying the old USB 2, PCIe 2 and sata 2 and go ALL gen 3???
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April 8, 2012 6:54:08 PM

I'm curious to find out if there's any noticeable performance increase with the new z77 mobos over the z68? How much better are these z77 motherboards over the z68's, really?
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