It will never work...

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Some time ago there was a long thread about contra.

For many years VGAP4 has had a market in "contraband" in order to
provide some trading while trying not to provide free money.

However this has not been without problems.
The contra market has been changed several times.

Another possibility suggests itself.
A market in bonds issued by player races.

http://www.hightown.demon.co.uk/planets/BondMarket.html

Of course this would never work. People would get too greedy and play
the market too aggressively. This might lead to invasions and bad
feeling. Oh dear.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Suggestion. I don't understand how the borrowers could be forced to
repay these loans. Why should they? But... it seems more reasonable that
Bad Things Happen if the bondholder is still alive when the term is up.
So if the debtor can eliminate the bondholder in time, he could evade
the problems caused by merchants refusing to allow his economy to work,
etc.

This might more closely mirror historical reality. Ie kings borrowing
money from rich merchants or nobles, then having them eliminated. But
woe betide a trading nation that defaults on debts with their trading
partners who they still need, in order for their economy to work.

The rates you posit will need tinkering. I would never lend on uch low
interest. In 20 turns I could leverage 1000mc into many times the
original sum, by investing in my own economy.
--
Paul Honigmann

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

It would be nice if there was an economic warfare aspect to the game.
Ruining the other players credit rating and lend-lease agreements certainly
are part of real life wars.

The problem is how to avoid collusion (the problem in RL markets as well as
VGAP).

Where does this money come from and go to? From individual planets? Sounds
hard (what if the base is destroyed/chunnels/GBAs)? I assume you intend this
to apply only to Central Bank to Central Bank payments and that you don't
intend everyone to get a GalDraw thing like the COM.

Let's see, the Scavs are a special problem, but can be handled (you just
need to unwind the doubled or halved Scav GC to CB transfers so they can't
get more out than goes in).

How do you prevent this from being a way I can just transfer MC across the
galaxy to a buddy 1000 LY away though?

I am rich early, you rich late (due to the races we are playing) but can't
we use this to loan money (the other partner subscribing to lend and any
idiot who wants to contribute as well is just fodder). I can send you MC on
an early turn without having ships or bases anywhere near you.

It _would_ be nice if someone can sort out the collusion problem, though to
have a bond or a commodity market (I have always thought the Contra Market
should function like a commodities market) to give us all one more area to
make colossal blunders and do ourselves in with our own cleverness.

"Peter Chambers" <peter@hightown.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:deahn1$sm4$1$830fa79f@news.demon.co.uk...
> Some time ago there was a long thread about contra.
>
> For many years VGAP4 has had a market in "contraband" in order to
> provide some trading while trying not to provide free money.
>
> However this has not been without problems.
> The contra market has been changed several times.
>
> Another possibility suggests itself.
> A market in bonds issued by player races.
>
> http://www.hightown.demon.co.uk/planets/BondMarket.html
>
> Of course this would never work. People would get too greedy and play
> the market too aggressively. This might lead to invasions and bad
> feeling. Oh dear.

 

[Roger]

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

I've thought about similar ideas from time to time. They work well in
theory, and it would certainly be fun to have a free market simulation
in the game. However, the tricky part is always the interface...

Players aren't going to want to cough up money for something unless
they know exactly what they're getting. Yet the game doesn't have a
clue what they're getting until it sees everybody else's turns and can
figure out the exact price and whether the item is undersold or
oversold or whatever.

Ideally, you'd like to see some sort of multiple-turn auction, so that
players can get several rounds of bidding in. But that would end up
being way too slow. Not to mention the fact that I bet Tim isn't very
interested in adding brand new information to all his data structures
to accomodate a bond market...

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Well said Roger. This is obviously an idea dreamt up by amoral
corporations and ruthless wartime governments to part savers from their
cash.

However as for assessing the risk, is this not what sovereign debt is
all about right now? How do you know your back will not lend some of
your deposits to Bongo-Bongoland tomorrow?

Roger wrote:
> I've thought about similar ideas from time to time. They work well in
> theory, and it would certainly be fun to have a free market simulation
> in the game. However, the tricky part is always the interface...
>
> Players aren't going to want to cough up money for something unless
> they know exactly what they're getting. Yet the game doesn't have a
> clue what they're getting until it sees everybody else's turns and can
> figure out the exact price and whether the item is undersold or
> oversold or whatever.
>
> Ideally, you'd like to see some sort of multiple-turn auction, so that
> players can get several rounds of bidding in. But that would end up
> being way too slow. Not to mention the fact that I bet Tim isn't very
> interested in adding brand new information to all his data structures
> to accomodate a bond market...
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

What if holding contraband did something very odd, like generate some
new and very powerful something extra. Your empire gains noterity or
favor with the great maker, the continuum. . . and you are granted some
wonderous relic, some ancent device that you can move around by towing
it, something an enemy can capture, the relic could do things like
cloak an area of space, make money, kill enemies (slowly), explode. . .


Tim

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

A while back I suggested something similar... not necessarily from
contraband ... but adding some 'relics' that are found on worlds would
be a great twist or through contraband hoarding. A podlike or towable
object that can do any number of things... cloak... larger crew
quarters...tack on devices...+100 evasive/accuracy... extra point
defense slot... a super bomb...you name it. I like it. Those of you
who played Star Control and remember the precursor artifacts that you
find know where I'm coming from.

Good twist to hold onto contraband...

side note... if you do do this you might want to make it proportional
to the amound of contraband the person has and the price of said
contraband.... so people don't just buy up the cheapest one in the
hopes of some nice doodads.

General Kael

PS great to hear you spit this type of stuff out again.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

You could consider other way of maintaining stockpiles desireable as
well.

Examples:
A stockpile of Repterrian Psi-Geese results in
(MAX(Geese-100,0)^(1/2.5)) Food generated every turn.
Minimum of 101 to generate 1 Food. 1000 generates 15.

Vaggen War Hounds = Each shot killing a Colonist/Crew by Ground
Attacking personnel (not Assault Units/Fighters/Defenses) has a chance
of killing a War Hound instead (family dog)

Handguns = Colonist Combat increased by (Guns/Colonists)%, max of 100%,
doubling normal rating.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

I like anything that is new like

Black Holes,
Meteors
Meteor Showers
Suns
Moons
Nebulars
Fallout
Spinning Wreckage

but I think it should not be too weird, that Contraband generates an
Artifact....

although I like the Idea of special devices that could be towed and maybe
found.

Maybe holding contraband could lure Colonist of other races to your world
and they would instandly become
prisoners if not allied

just an idea,
splitted


"cocomax" <cocomax@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1125458505.598782.270740@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> What if holding contraband did something very odd, like generate some
> new and very powerful something extra. Your empire gains noterity or
> favor with the great maker, the continuum. . . and you are granted some
> wonderous relic, some ancent device that you can move around by towing
> it, something an enemy can capture, the relic could do things like
> cloak an area of space, make money, kill enemies (slowly), explode. . .
>
>
> Tim
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

cocomax wrote:
> What if holding contraband did something very odd, like generate some
> new and very powerful something extra. Your empire gains noterity or
> favor with the great maker, the continuum. . . and you are granted some
> wonderous relic, some ancent device that you can move around by towing
> it, something an enemy can capture, the relic could do things like
> cloak an area of space, make money, kill enemies (slowly), explode. . .
>
>
> Tim
>
Save it for Dungeons and Dragons. Why add pixie dust to a system that is
already so complex that 90% of people just shake their heads and fire up
Donkey Kong. All seriousness aside, I love complexity, but find some
things hard to swallow in this game.

I have never liked things that suddenly turn the tide, unless you happen
to be Moses, these things generally are just wrong.

Of course that is just my .02 Euros,

Æ

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

I think some of the alternatives posted in this thread have some
credibility and would benefit the game more than the concept of a
relic/ancient device.

Adding such things moves the game away from war strategy and towards
the realm of "Star Control" or "Heroes of Might and Magic"

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

cocomax schrieb:
> What if holding contraband did something very odd, like generate some
> new and very powerful something extra. Your empire gains noterity or
> favor with the great maker, the continuum. . . and you are granted some
> wonderous relic, some ancent device that you can move around by towing
> it, something an enemy can capture, the relic could do things like
> cloak an area of space, make money, kill enemies (slowly), explode. . .
>
>
> Tim
>

Well, though exotic it is a step into the direction of giving CB a more
intrinsic value like it is the case for example for Kerria.

It could be a interesting idea of giving different benefits for holding
different types. But as mentioned in other threads, players should have
some clue of the worth of the benefits in order to deal with it (or
course only if is intended). And also this benefits should monotone
scale with the hold amounts.

What if players totally determine the price on their own by either
offering it via limited orders in CB menu ("stock exchange") or by
trading locally to neighbors on their own secondary local blackmarket?
Together with the chance of finding "free" amounts on planet surfaces
and other extra sources (Amorphous, crawlers, tech institute,...) I
think there could be cooked market which brings new fun into the game.

Starting points for intrinsic value there are a lot:

Handguns - better labor camps and mines or better GA abilities for
colonists...
Warhounds - less rioting
Emotion chips - Borgs and other spoil spots work in camps...
and so on. CB should be used up for a steady demand of CB.

And when players mainly are respondible for the prices then the abuse
only comes from "idiots" which are willing to pay the price.

GFM GToeroe