POW's & POW riots

G

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As it stands now I believe 1 POW being held by the enemy has the same
effect as holding 10,000,000? It also seems you could take a few 10's
of prisoners and distribute them over a few 10's of planets and
completely destroy the happiness of your enemy with 10's of POW riots!

This seems to be what is happening to me right now. A few hundred POW's
are destroying my empire, because they are distributed across 5+
planets.

Can anyone verify this effect? And if so is this the way its supposed
to work?

rob
 

nameless

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I suggest you (or someone else) test(s) whether this is the case or
not, I do not believe that (eventhough probably 1 enemy colonist is
enough to generate such a message, important is if the effect on
happiness is the same and that I doubt).
Just use one slaver race. And three copies of the same victim race
(lets call them A,B,C) - many big bases and trying to script the three
races virtually the same concerning happiness etc.
Give the slaver race many bases and always nearby a life pod (of two of
the victim races) and also a ship. Here it is important wlog that the
slaver race does not have victims of A, only small amounts of Colonists
of B and big amounts of Colonists of C. Capture,move and dock the pods
to the bases and see how happiness of A,B,C does develope. If B and C
(except for slight variation) have the same happiness drops, number of
prisoners does not really matter - otherwise it does matter.


rob_tay@telus.net wrote:
> As it stands now I believe 1 POW being held by the enemy has the same
> effect as holding 10,000,000? It also seems you could take a few 10's
> of prisoners and distribute them over a few 10's of planets and
> completely destroy the happiness of your enemy with 10's of POW riots!
>
> This seems to be what is happening to me right now. A few hundred POW's
> are destroying my empire, because they are distributed across 5+
> planets.
>
> Can anyone verify this effect? And if so is this the way its supposed
> to work?
>
> rob
 

Roger

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An experiment I just performed indicates that small numbers of
prisoners do not cause POW riots.

Two players: Evil Empire and Federation. The Evil Empire was given 20
bases with a small number of Federation prisoners (less than 10
prisoners each). The Federation was given 20 large bases (150k
colonists).

After two turns of the Evil Empire holding the prisoners, *none* of the
Federation bases reported any POW riots.
 

Doc

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Hi Roger,

Just a quick follow-up question on your test:
Did you record\notice a drop in happyness on any of the Fed bases? You
may not have got the message, but did you get the POW happyness drop of
minus 30?
 

Roger

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> Just a quick follow-up question on your test:
> Did you record\notice a drop in happyness on any of the Fed bases? You
> may not have got the message, but did you get the POW happyness drop of
> minus 30?

I wasn't really paying attention to that, so I can't say for sure. But
all of the bases now have happiness > 100, so it looks unlikely.
 
G

Guest

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IIRC, I remember that it takes 10K prisoners to cause riots...

But I could easily be wrong here. It's been a long time since I've
studied effects of prisoners on POW riots and my mind is a bit foggy.
(but that could just be the booze)
 
G

Guest

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In the next host with the bad blood all gone the damage to base
happiness is as follows.

There is a 30% chance your base will take a happiness hit the number of
points lost will depend on how many of your colonists the enemy is
holding:

1 to 1000 : 1 point

1001 to 99999 : 5 points

100000 To 299999 : 30 points

300000 to 5000000 : 50 points

more than 5000001: 60 points

If the enemy has 4 bases with 100001 prisoners you will have a 30%
chance 4 times of loose 30 happiness points.

Tim
 
G

Guest

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Which one of your bases take the happiness hit?

All bases have the 30% chance? One base at random?
 

Doc

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Hi Tim,

Great idea, small modification. The numbers are a bit off and open to
abuse. The numbers encourge people to spread small numbers of prisonors
out amoung large number of planets to gain a better result in a
happness drop. Where a major base of Prisonors has little or no effect
on a captured race.

======================
Currectly:
======================
1 to 1000 : 1 point [Avg:1500000]* [Chances: 5000001]#
1001 to 99999 : 5 points [Avg:7492]* [Chances: 4955]#
100000 To 299999 : 30 points [Avg:450]* [Chances: 50]#
300000 to 5000000 : 50 points [Avg:240]* [Chances: 16]#
more than 5000001: 60 points [Avg:18]* [Chances: 1]#

*[Avg: xx]
The Average drop in happyness to the collective races happyness if the
capturing race had 5000001 prisionors and divided that number of
prisionors over many planets to see what the collective effect is.

#[Chances: xx]
The number of chances the capturing race has of inflicting a happness
drop on the captured race (if they had that number of bases to divide
the prisonors around on).

======================
If those numbers where changed to:
======================
1 to 10000 : 0 point [Avg:0]* [Chances: 5000001]#
10001 to 99999 : 1 points [Avg:150]* [Chances: 4955]#
100000 To 299999 : 12 points [Avg:180]* [Chances: 50]#
300000 to 2500000 : 45 points [Avg:216]* [Chances: 16]#
more than 2500001: 350 points [Avg:183]** [Chances: 2]#

With these changed numbers the overall effect on the captured races
whole population does not change much no matter how many colonists are
captured. But the effect on individual bases is greater with the higher
number of colonists captured. Also the ability by players to abuse the
system is also reduced.

Merge this change with the "changing colonists back to natives" item
(however a happyness of -300 should be used instead of -50 i.e. total
insanity) and if the aggressive race can capture 2500001 colonists and
place them all on one base, then they have a 30% chance each game turn
to turn one of the prisonors bases into a dithering mess of natives
unless the prisonor race can destroy the camp. [1 base of 2500001+
prisonors has a 30% chance to causes a -350 happyness drop in one
base].

Also the prisonors's base that get the happness drop should be random
and not the base with the lowest base\planet id.

Comments?


cocomax wrote:
> In the next host with the bad blood all gone the damage to base
> happiness is as follows.
>
> There is a 30% chance your base will take a happiness hit the number of
> points lost will depend on how many of your colonists the enemy is
> holding:
>
> 1 to 1000 : 1 point
>
> 1001 to 99999 : 5 points
>
> 100000 To 299999 : 30 points
>
> 300000 to 5000000 : 50 points
>
> more than 5000001: 60 points
>
> If the enemy has 4 bases with 100001 prisoners you will have a 30%
> chance 4 times of loose 30 happiness points.
>
> Tim
 
G

Guest

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With Bad Blood being removed, are we looking at returning to the old
labor camp rules, or a new set?
 

gary

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cocomax wrote:
> In the next host with the bad blood all gone the damage to base
> happiness is as follows.
>
> There is a 30% chance your base will take a happiness hit the number of
> points lost will depend on how many of your colonists the enemy is
> holding:
>
> 1 to 1000 : 1 point
>
> 1001 to 99999 : 5 points
>
> 100000 To 299999 : 30 points
>
> 300000 to 5000000 : 50 points
>
> more than 5000001: 60 points
>
> If the enemy has 4 bases with 100001 prisoners you will have a 30%
> chance 4 times of loose 30 happiness points.
>
> Tim
>


So if someone has 100 prisoners and spreads them out 1 per base
(unlikely I know) then each of your bases takes a 30 point happiness
hit. Exploitable definitely.

And it doesn't address a thought I recently had, that I think it should
be based on the proportion of your race that is a prisoner. If you have
one million colonists then losing a thousand will have a large effect,
but if you have several hundred million (as in several games I've seen)
your population will barely notice.

How about each base takes a happiness hit proportional to (or possibly
equal to) the percentage of your race that is held prisoner,
automatically not a percentage chance. But only those prisoners that you
have a scan on count, probably those in Labour xxx would count double or
so. However each turn there is a small chance that you will get a scan
on any base that you don't already have a scan on, but all you will be
able to see is the number of prisoners (all races) and the number of
labour camps and mines (the information is passed on by natives and
independent traders). With possibly a scan of troops and HG similar to
the information that you currently get on ships crew. And when you work
out the size of your population crew count normal but troops and HG
count double or treble. Giving another good reason to build training
centers. You could also have active training centers count as a thousand
colonists (to no more than double the planetary population). If the
population can see preparations to recover prisoners it should offset
any happiness drop.
 

Doc

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==================
So if someone has 100 prisoners and spreads them out 1 per base
(unlikely I know) then each of your bases takes a 30 point happiness
hit. Exploitable definitely.
=================
Nop, not quite.
If you spread 100 prisoner across 100 planets. The Prisoner race will
experience 100 chances of a 1 happyness point drop. Each chance has a
30% chance of succeeding.
 

gary

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Doc wrote:
> ==================
> So if someone has 100 prisoners and spreads them out 1 per base
> (unlikely I know) then each of your bases takes a 30 point happiness
> hit. Exploitable definitely.
> =================
> Nop, not quite.
> If you spread 100 prisoner across 100 planets. The Prisoner race will
> experience 100 chances of a 1 happyness point drop. Each chance has a
> 30% chance of succeeding.
>

Don't just write the math down. DO IT.
 

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