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UEA

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Anonymous
September 8, 2005 12:44:42 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Any comments on these submitted changes to the UEA?


First, some Ship related changes

Warrant Class Assault Ship
Hull Trait = Combat Computer negates UEA 1/2 Kill damage

---

Hammer Class Troop Carrier
Mass = 98
Armor = 250
Hross Mine Field Resistance

Battalion Class Troop Carrier
Armor = 500

Hammer and Battalion:
New Device = Assault Landing = Disables end of turn Dust off and lands
all Assault Pods on the planet it ends the turn over. Pods are not
subject to Combat VCR unless Troop Carrier is destroyed. So in effect,
A Troop Carrier could start a turn over an assault planet and Dust Off
at the start of a turn and end a turn over an enemy planet and drop all
assault pods, and beam down all Troops and HG in guest quarters.


---

Ranger Station
New Device "Repair Dock"
Only works when owned by UEA
Only works on UEA Native hulls
Completely repairs ship that is the tow target in one turn.
Uses the amount of repair units the target ship would require to repair
itself from the Rangers supply.

---
Fighter Changes

AS-480 Assault Fighter

Attack Air 190
Attack Ground Troops 50
Attack Cities 45
Attack Ground Units 30
Defense From Air Attack 120
Defense From Ground Troops 55
Defense From Ground Units 35
Beam Weapons 80
Missile Weapons 65
Accuracy Beams 70
Accuracy Missile 85
Range Beams 200
Range Missile 400
Ord Load 160
Travel Range (LY) 310
Armor 15
Evasive Bonus 30
Attack Bonus 60
Generator 15
Battery 200
Combat Quickness 100
Cost 200

DOA-187x Bomber

Attack Air 10
Attack Ground Troops 70
Attack Cities 225
Attack Ground Units 180
Defense From Air Attack 40
Defense From Ground Troops 40
Defense From Ground Units 40
Beam Weapons 15
Missile Weapons 100
Accuracy Beams 45
Accuracy Missile 90
Range Beams 50
Range Missile 400
Ord Load 250
Travel Range (LY) 360
Armor 8
Evasive Bonus 0
Attack Bonus 100
Generator 10
Battery 180
Combat Quickness 50
Cost 125

DOA wings can perform orbital precision strikes if they end the turn
over base. To target one building type using the command code "b01" to
"b30" The codes correspond with the order of the buildings listed on
the base overview screen. Each bomber destroys 1 building. Thirty
bombers destroy 30 cities or 30 farms. Chances of success depend on
the number of DOA fighters in the wing. 1% per fighter. AA-Guns will
each destroy one fighter before it performs it's mission, plus a random
change to destroy another fighter.

C-3 Defender

Attack Air 50
Attack Ground Troops 60
Attack Cities 20
Attack Ground Units 30
Defense From Air Attack 50
Defense From Ground Troops 55
Defense From Ground Units 30
Beam Weapons 55
Missile Weapons 0
Accuracy Beams 80
Accuracy Missile 0
Range Beams 150
Range Missile 0
Ord Load 0
Travel Range (LY) 10
Armor 6
Evasive Bonus 50
Attack Bonus 72
Generator 10
Battery 100
Combat Quickness 20
Cost 70

---

Contraband Lockdown as a hull trait is removed from all ships
A regular Contraband Lockdown is added to the Sergeant-at-Arms

---

Hawkings Retaining Center
New cost to build is 40Mcs and 5 Supplies.
No longer costs any thing to re-educate prisoners.
Each Center can process 1000 POWs
HG can not be re-educated.
A percentage of the personnel will die in the process. That percentage
is effected by the Lawfulness of the race, the lower the Lawfulness,
the more personnel that will die.
This only applies to personnel being re-educated and not those waiting
on the base.
Re-education process generates income based on lizard selling formula
divided by 3.
Cyborg, Robot, Solorian and Crystal prisoners are not re-educateable.
Other nasty things can happen to your base when prisoners are being
re-educated.

---

The AU-147 Arresting Unit was not used, and never achieved it's
designed purpose, so here is the redesign:

Arresting action happens before movement. (So you have to land them
for a turn before they will capture enemies)
Attack setting must be Deep Ground Patrols or better.
Captures 200 colonists, 100 crew, and 5 troops per turn.
Enemy HG are immune and will protect 1,000 Colonist from capture for
each HG.
Arresting Unit combats crime on friendly bases within 200lys.

Attack Air 0
Attack Ground Troops 5
Attack Cities 0
Attack Ground Units 1
Defense From Air Attack 5
Defense From Ground Troops 15
Defense From Ground Units 12
Cost 24

---

The Redistribution Center has become a vital part of the UEA economy.
But some tweaking is needed.
2 Food
1 Supplies
1 MCs
70 Ord

---

Fighting with Insect Natives may or may not work this way. This is the
way is should work and should be made to work if not.
Ground unit will fight first. (Currently PA-245 Battle Mech can kill
1250 insectoids each.)
Fighters in the base will fight second. (Currently C-3 Defender can
kill 800 insectoids each.)
Troops fight third
Crew fight forth
HG will fight fifth
Colonist fight/die last.

More about : uea

Anonymous
September 8, 2005 2:57:10 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

>Warrant Class Assault Ship
>Hull Trait = Combat Computer negates UEA 1/2 Kill damage

As in this is simply a hull trait? or once the battle computer exotic
techs are bought it loses it's perk? Bummer either way...

>Hross Mine Field Resistance

As in total resistance to EE mines that were layed by Hross class
ships, but not Moscows? I imagine it doesn't block detonations.
Please expound...

>New Device = Assault Landing
Nice

>New Device "Repair Dock"
Love it

The Fighter stat changes for the most part weaken them a great bit...
were they anywhere close to being over powered in the first place? The
orbital bombardment of the the Bomber seems pretty cool... it offers a
new attack yet shows a good counterattack... as it should be... I like
it. But is this replacing the ground assault bombing?

>Contraband Lockdown as a hull trait is removed from all ships
>A regular Contraband Lockdown is added to the Sergeant-at-Arms

Hallelujah....

>The AU-147 Arresting Unit [changes]

probably needed to be scaled back and blockable... good change...
however is that price really 24 or is it supposed to be 240? Those
combat stats are pretty dang stinky.

>The Redistribution Center [changes]

Good scaleback I think.

>Insectoid fighting

Looks good to me

General Kael
September 8, 2005 6:34:21 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

> Warrant Class Assault Ship
> Hull Trait = Combat Computer negates UEA 1/2 Kill damage
Do you mean Battle Computer when you say Combat Computer? Has there
been any reduced kill damage specifically on the warrant? Matter of
fact the first Battle Computer is that cheap that probably anybody
having a Warrant will already have it on. In my opinion you could more
easily remove the 1/2 kill damage directly instead of mocking it as a
hull weakness.

> Hammer Class Troop Carrier
> Hross Mine Field Resistance
The UEA have enough Mine Sweepers, they do not need a ship racing thru
enemy MFs with speed 90.

> Hammer and Battalion:
> New Device = Assault Landing
Wrong name of the device, it should be called "Capture Base" and will
immediately surrender any enemy base to the ship in orbit. What, that
is nonsense?! Well, what is the "Assault Landing" then!? ;-O

> Ranger Station
> New Device "Repair Dock"
Ok, even though I fail to see why the UEA and only they should have
such a nice thing.

> DOA wings can perform orbital precision strikes
I thought that is what they are already doing now? Where is the change
- beside the stats?

> Contraband Lockdown as a hull trait is removed from all ships
> A regular Contraband Lockdown is added to the Sergeant-at-Arms
Yes! Ha, who thought I'm only destructive?! ;-O

> Hawkings Retaining Center
> New cost to build is 40Mcs and 5 Supplies.
> No longer costs any thing to re-educate prisoners.
> Each Center can process 1000 POWs
> HG can not be re-educated.
> A percentage of the personnel will die in the process.
> ... This only applies to personnel being re-educated and not those waiting
So far so good.
> Re-education process generates income based on lizard selling formula
> divided by 3.
Why, please??? Is their economy so weak that they need a (little)
boost?!
> Other nasty things can happen to your base when prisoners are being
Sure way to remove the Hawkins institute from any important base. Leave
out the cash generation and the bad side effects and it is ok.

> Arresting Unit combats crime on friendly bases within 200lys
You want to make the UEA the preferred ally of heavy contra trading /
storing races? I wouldn't implement this change as it has no advantage
for the UEA and would counter the whole crime idea as it is now.

> The Redistribution Center has become a vital part of the UEA economy.
> But some tweaking is needed.
Yes, it needs to be tweaked down!

> Fighting with Insect Natives may or may not work this way
Fine with me.
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Anonymous
September 8, 2005 7:17:53 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Most of the submitted changes look good!

About the Ranger Station repair trait. I would make that a automatic
function of any ship with a dry dock instead. That a ship with a dry
dock can fully repair (out of its own repair unit reserve) a ship that
is towed by the dry dock ship, provided the ship is inside the dry dock
mass limit, and provided the dry dock ship has access to the ship plans
(either a native ship, or an alien one wich plans are on board). Just
an idea to generalize this nice idea from Greg.

The Type 1 fighter got considerably cheaper, but looking at the stats
this is probably justified.

I would restrict the Arresting Units crime combat capabilities to the
base it is at. It has no warp capabilities, why should it have a 200ly
range?
Also enemy highguard should not only be able to protect only colos from
being captured, but other personnel, too. And I would increase the
amount of people a hg can protect - they usually don't linger
around at bases in hundreds anymore nowadays.

But I do have a problem with the Redistribution Center. Let me expand
on that. Once upon a time the contraband market was most races tool to
increase its small starting money. With a profit margin of about 20%
this was a valid investion, and soon most races had enough money to
fuel its techs, shipbuilding, etc. to wage a nice war. Nowadays (since
the last contraband change) the contraband market isn't worth
investing in (is anyone still doing it?), with margins below the 5%
mark you can as well put your money elsewhere. Most races have to be
real cautious with their starting money now, with city income being
back as number one income source. Giving a huge boost to the poor Dracs
with their gov center income, and even the Feds with their Aggrovators,
which isn't a bad thing.
The UEA though, they have hit it big. Their weakness that they are
unable to profit from the contraband market practically evaporated into
nothing. Their city income is doubled! And the Redestribution Center
allows them to exchange a single cheap contraband against loads and
loads of stuff. To be precise, even after the submitted change they can
get 1 mc, 1 supply (worth 1 mc), 2 food (hard to put a price tag on)
and 70 ord (worth 7 mc) for a single piece of contraband, for which
they probably paid between 2 or 3 mc.
This can't be true, can it?! This kind of a starting boost throws
this race out of balance, big time. And with all their gimmicks they
are not especially weak in late game, too, for all I know (but never
played them myself). The Dracs have earned their early game bonus -
the UEA is becoming an all around powerhouse. As it is, the
Redistribution Center is seriously over the top and has to be
downgraded a lot, or even dropped whooly.

Mind you, that is a consequence of the 'diminished into nothing'
contraband market. Which could change every host again. Hard to find a
balance for the Redistribution Center (and the UEA) under this
circumstances.
Anonymous
September 8, 2005 7:24:20 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

> > Hammer and Battalion:
> > New Device = Assault Landing
> Wrong name of the device, it should be called "Capture Base" and will
> immediately surrender any enemy base to the ship in orbit. What, that
> is nonsense?! Well, what is the "Assault Landing" then!? ;-O

Hm, am I getting something wrong? He still needs two turns for the
ground assault, with all the usual defenses. In which regard is this an
automatic capture? He can only move around military personnel much
faster. But correct me if I have missed something.

> > Ranger Station
> > New Device "Repair Dock"
> Ok, even though I fail to see why the UEA and only they should have
> such a nice thing.

True :) . But this is Tims gig, not Gregs.

> > DOA wings can perform orbital precision strikes
> I thought that is what they are already doing now? Where is the change
> - beside the stats?

No. They 'ought' to have been capable of something like that, but
weren't. Rule was implemented badly (as to having no effect) in the
original.

> > The Redistribution Center has become a vital part of the UEA economy.
> > But some tweaking is needed.
> Yes, it needs to be tweaked down!

More on that important point in my post below ;) .
September 8, 2005 9:38:48 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

> He still needs two turns for the ground assault, with all the usual defenses
Yes and no. ;-) Yes, still 2 turns are needed but not with those
troops! Simple example:
I have 2 ships, a Warrant and a Hammer.
1) I race with the Warrant to an enemy base and move away in safety
before tick 50, but not after creating a 1 man base, called Base A
2a) I set Base A to Capture and use the Default DustOff and Assault
Landing of the Hammer to move all my troops to that base, taking it in
GA immediately.
2b) The Warrant creates the next base
3) Repeat 1 and 2, taking an enemy base each turn

This is of course a simple example. Elaborate it with a Pax and further
battleships, to increase strength and range and you will see where I'm
heading. With the pod being undestroyable until the Hammer is
destroyed, this is simply too good IMHO.
September 8, 2005 9:40:16 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Even with the old contra rules, the Redistribution center was already
too good. As you say, it is still an excellent trade off.
September 8, 2005 10:02:58 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Got to agree, the Redistribution Centre is damn nice. Too nice with the
new(ish) contra rules. They already have x2 native and city money
collection and this law abiding police state is now making more cash
out of illegal goods than the Privateers. A bit odd. But rationales
aside, talking in terms of game balance: they tough already, they don't
need no boosting.

Personally I'd like to see them unable to BUY contra as well be unable
to sell it (after all the Centre is effectively selling it anyway,
whatever word is used to describe the process). That would limit the
amount of cash they can make from the centre. They'd have to fight for
Amorphs like everyone else.

ANd the other boosts to their fleet seems a bit odd as well. They
already have a GREAT fleet. HYP ships that also have fast normal space
movement and are tough in combat and a good variety of devices. And
they don't cost that much either. When combined with the big economy
(I'd say the best in the game) that's pretty nice.

ONly fair to have the Bombers and bug combat work properly of course.
Those changes need to be instigated.

All in all I think they need tweaking down. Certainly not up.

That being said I like the idea of big space stations being able to
repair ships faster. Got a nice feel to it. But any big station should
be able to do it. Anything with a dry dock big enough to fit the
damaged vessel. (that's what dry docks are for after all).
September 8, 2005 10:14:01 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Re: Arresting Unit

One of the most useful features of the arresting unit was that it
worked after movement, so that you could land an assault pod and
capture some enemy personel before ground combat occurred on the next
turn, and before the enemy knew what was going on.

As a UEA player, I think I would prefer that it continue to work after
movement. That speeds up play quite a bit.
September 8, 2005 1:26:24 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

cocomax wrote:
>
> Fighting with Insect Natives may or may not work this way. This is the
> way is should work and should be made to work if not.
> Ground unit will fight first. (Currently PA-245 Battle Mech can kill
> 1250 insectoids each.)
> Fighters in the base will fight second. (Currently C-3 Defender can
> kill 800 insectoids each.)
> Troops fight third
> Crew fight forth
> HG will fight fifth
> Colonist fight/die last.
>

Last time this affected me I believe the Mech's killed Insects before
population died but Cols died before Troops. (Assuming that this was, at
least partially, a question.)
Anonymous
September 8, 2005 4:32:33 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

These changes came from a discussion several months ago, link below.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.games.vgaplanets4/br...

Let me touch on some points made so far:

Warrant: Combat Computer is in no relation to Exotic Tech. It simple
negates the UEA trait of 1/2 kill damage the race currently operates
under.

The Hammer hull size was reduced, but I wish it to be able to take a
mine hit. It's not immune, just resistant, and this is not isolated to
EE Mines.

Assault Landing: this makes the ships useful and falls within the ethos
of the race. It only make GA more efficient. Yes, it's an improvement,
but not an over powering boost.

Repair Dock: I'm glad everyone likes this feature, and I completely
agree, it should be a native trait of dry docks. I only can effect the
races I have control of, if Tim wants to make this a game feature,
awesome.

Changes to Fighters were to bring things inline with their design
purpose.

Ok, I'll level with you, I've never been a strong Contraband trader,
but I do know the UEA have a weak econ. It is very delicate. And
contraband isn't the only income races get, there is also prisoners.
Now there have been alot of changes in contra and prisoner income.

The changes to the retraining center are to make it feasible and to
deversify income for a weak income. YES, the UEA are a strong early/mid
game race. But in the end game, they need alot of care or a good ally.
If Tim thinks the income at 1/3 of the Lizard selling income it top
great, I invite him to reduce it further to be inline with what he
thinks it should be.

As to the MRC, I would be willing to entertain changing the ord to 50.
But again, this is an asset to the delicate economy the UEA have.

I'd like to hear further discussion on the AU, but the reason for post
movement effects is due to it's low cost.
Anonymous
September 8, 2005 10:06:48 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

>I'd like to hear further discussion on the AU, but the reason for post
movement effects is due to it's low cost.

So is the actual price shifting from 290 to 24? or to 240? I think
that the PRE movement effects that were posted by Tim are good... a
little less 'instant prisoners' You have to actually protect your base
a bit longer.

GK
Anonymous
September 8, 2005 11:02:07 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

New cost is 24 (Twenty-four) You'll note a massive reduction in stats.
Anonymous
September 10, 2005 12:14:24 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

First why do the UEA needs some more devices? Should a race "collect"
devices over time? I don´t think so. I like the repair dock but I don´t see
any reason (only) to give it to the UEA.
I don´t see a reason to give the Hammer the minefield immunety and take away
the contra lockdown as a double egded sword. The UEA is already a high
mobile race. They don´t need aother boni that even gives them more mibilety.
The fighting against native I considerd as a good thing to fight the UEA.
Insectoid don´t come along to their PSP thei have good minefields and
tachion emitters. So it is hard to bring the insecoid to them as they good
defended. But when you manage ít will hurt a big base quite hard.

The crime fighting thing of the arresting unit is too much. Ivitation to a
Rebel UEA combo loop.

I don´t like the price of the arresting unit either. One can easily remove
the starting troop personal from an enemy HW with a low price lik that.
Together with the existing UEA capture bonus this would lead to a easy job
for GC a enemy HW very early. The UEA has enough GC power. Either high the
price of the arresting unit or remove the bonus for capturing prisaners (I
do mean they only need 1x the combat value the enemy has to capture the
colonists).

If you consider that contra income for oter races is very much reduced now I
am strongly against any improovment of the UAE if you don´t remove the
double city income.


Greetings
Sebastian

>
> Warrant Class Assault Ship
> Hull Trait = Combat Computer negates UEA 1/2 Kill damage
>
> ---
>
> Hammer Class Troop Carrier
> Mass = 98
> Armor = 250
> Hross Mine Field Resistance
>
> Battalion Class Troop Carrier
> Armor = 500
>
> Hammer and Battalion:
> New Device = Assault Landing = Disables end of turn Dust off and lands
> all Assault Pods on the planet it ends the turn over. Pods are not
> subject to Combat VCR unless Troop Carrier is destroyed. So in effect,
> A Troop Carrier could start a turn over an assault planet and Dust Off
> at the start of a turn and end a turn over an enemy planet and drop all
> assault pods, and beam down all Troops and HG in guest quarters.
>
>
> ---
>
> Ranger Station
> New Device "Repair Dock"
> Only works when owned by UEA
> Only works on UEA Native hulls
> Completely repairs ship that is the tow target in one turn.
> Uses the amount of repair units the target ship would require to repair
> itself from the Rangers supply.
>
> ---
> Fighter Changes
>
> AS-480 Assault Fighter
>
> Attack Air 190
> Attack Ground Troops 50
> Attack Cities 45
> Attack Ground Units 30
> Defense From Air Attack 120
> Defense From Ground Troops 55
> Defense From Ground Units 35
> Beam Weapons 80
> Missile Weapons 65
> Accuracy Beams 70
> Accuracy Missile 85
> Range Beams 200
> Range Missile 400
> Ord Load 160
> Travel Range (LY) 310
> Armor 15
> Evasive Bonus 30
> Attack Bonus 60
> Generator 15
> Battery 200
> Combat Quickness 100
> Cost 200
>
> DOA-187x Bomber
>
> Attack Air 10
> Attack Ground Troops 70
> Attack Cities 225
> Attack Ground Units 180
> Defense From Air Attack 40
> Defense From Ground Troops 40
> Defense From Ground Units 40
> Beam Weapons 15
> Missile Weapons 100
> Accuracy Beams 45
> Accuracy Missile 90
> Range Beams 50
> Range Missile 400
> Ord Load 250
> Travel Range (LY) 360
> Armor 8
> Evasive Bonus 0
> Attack Bonus 100
> Generator 10
> Battery 180
> Combat Quickness 50
> Cost 125
>
> DOA wings can perform orbital precision strikes if they end the turn
> over base. To target one building type using the command code "b01" to
> "b30" The codes correspond with the order of the buildings listed on
> the base overview screen. Each bomber destroys 1 building. Thirty
> bombers destroy 30 cities or 30 farms. Chances of success depend on
> the number of DOA fighters in the wing. 1% per fighter. AA-Guns will
> each destroy one fighter before it performs it's mission, plus a random
> change to destroy another fighter.
>
> C-3 Defender
>
> Attack Air 50
> Attack Ground Troops 60
> Attack Cities 20
> Attack Ground Units 30
> Defense From Air Attack 50
> Defense From Ground Troops 55
> Defense From Ground Units 30
> Beam Weapons 55
> Missile Weapons 0
> Accuracy Beams 80
> Accuracy Missile 0
> Range Beams 150
> Range Missile 0
> Ord Load 0
> Travel Range (LY) 10
> Armor 6
> Evasive Bonus 50
> Attack Bonus 72
> Generator 10
> Battery 100
> Combat Quickness 20
> Cost 70
>
> ---
>
> Contraband Lockdown as a hull trait is removed from all ships
> A regular Contraband Lockdown is added to the Sergeant-at-Arms
>
> ---
>
> Hawkings Retaining Center
> New cost to build is 40Mcs and 5 Supplies.
> No longer costs any thing to re-educate prisoners.
> Each Center can process 1000 POWs
> HG can not be re-educated.
> A percentage of the personnel will die in the process. That percentage
> is effected by the Lawfulness of the race, the lower the Lawfulness,
> the more personnel that will die.
> This only applies to personnel being re-educated and not those waiting
> on the base.
> Re-education process generates income based on lizard selling formula
> divided by 3.
> Cyborg, Robot, Solorian and Crystal prisoners are not re-educateable.
> Other nasty things can happen to your base when prisoners are being
> re-educated.
>
> ---
>
> The AU-147 Arresting Unit was not used, and never achieved it's
> designed purpose, so here is the redesign:
>
> Arresting action happens before movement. (So you have to land them
> for a turn before they will capture enemies)
> Attack setting must be Deep Ground Patrols or better.
> Captures 200 colonists, 100 crew, and 5 troops per turn.
> Enemy HG are immune and will protect 1,000 Colonist from capture for
> each HG.
> Arresting Unit combats crime on friendly bases within 200lys.
>
> Attack Air 0
> Attack Ground Troops 5
> Attack Cities 0
> Attack Ground Units 1
> Defense From Air Attack 5
> Defense From Ground Troops 15
> Defense From Ground Units 12
> Cost 24
>
> ---
>
> The Redistribution Center has become a vital part of the UEA economy.
> But some tweaking is needed.
> 2 Food
> 1 Supplies
> 1 MCs
> 70 Ord
>
> ---
>
> Fighting with Insect Natives may or may not work this way. This is the
> way is should work and should be made to work if not.
> Ground unit will fight first. (Currently PA-245 Battle Mech can kill
> 1250 insectoids each.)
> Fighters in the base will fight second. (Currently C-3 Defender can
> kill 800 insectoids each.)
> Troops fight third
> Crew fight forth
> HG will fight fifth
> Colonist fight/die last.
>
Anonymous
September 10, 2005 10:17:30 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

The UEA isn't to powerful. The race has a low economy. Their double
income boost

from cities tighten the low growth rate. On the other hand as an ally
the race is

a problem. In a game now concentrating on growth, their food support
for a high

growth race is to decisive. I would like to see only some changes in
the amount

of food the center generates, enough to be a valuable ally but fewer as
now.

It should be clear that any change in the contrand market would enforce
:) 

new rebalances.

Personally I like the cutback of the contraband market. Before, all
other

income sources, with exception of labor camps, were negligible. Now the
game

focus on growth, food and resources. A change to allow the uea to
survive in

late game without ally would be nice, if the player achieve to make
enough captives.
Anonymous
September 10, 2005 11:11:20 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

So far the proposed change by Tim and the race creator is (2 food, 1
supply, 1 mc, 50 ord).

I think it's a good step in the right direction, but like others said I
not sure it's enought, but we could try it like this, and reduce it
again later IF needed.

Lord Lancelot
Anonymous
September 11, 2005 1:15:17 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

The UEA had a good economy when other races used the contra market as
income.(I speack only of early to mid game).
Not the contra market income is reduced but the UEA still have their old
boni. Don´t you think that there might be some imbalance now (again I don´t
speak of late game)?

Greetings
Sebastian

"Kadesh" <christian_hennicke@web.de> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:1126358250.301629.59840@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> The UEA isn't to powerful. The race has a low economy. Their double
> income boost
>
> from cities tighten the low growth rate. On the other hand as an ally
> the race is
>
> a problem. In a game now concentrating on growth, their food support
> for a high
>
> growth race is to decisive. I would like to see only some changes in
> the amount
>
> of food the center generates, enough to be a valuable ally but fewer as
> now.
>
> It should be clear that any change in the contrand market would enforce
> :) 
>
> new rebalances.
>
> Personally I like the cutback of the contraband market. Before, all
> other
>
> income sources, with exception of labor camps, were negligible. Now the
> game
>
> focus on growth, food and resources. A change to allow the uea to
> survive in
>
> late game without ally would be nice, if the player achieve to make
> enough captives.
>
Anonymous
September 11, 2005 2:38:46 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

cocomax <cocomax@aol.com> writes
>Any comments on these submitted changes to the UEA?

>Contraband Lockdown as a hull trait is removed from all ships
>A regular Contraband Lockdown is added to the Sergeant-at-Arms

Awww! I really liked this feature. It adds a lot of flavour to the UEA.

However... I don't want to spill any secrets, but... no one uses contra
any more anyway, Tim. Some people even consider it not worth landing
pods of colonists on planets to gather 10,000kT of contra. Why? Because
you need to risk so many people these days... and it takes so long to
gather... that you get more cash by leaving the people at home to breed
or in cities. It could take 20 turns to gather 70% of the contra on a
planet.
--
Paul Honigmann
Anonymous
September 11, 2005 7:19:23 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

After putting some thought into it, I believe the UEA redistribution
center has to be downsized enormously. It was the UEA's ersatz method
to use the contraband market, but now, when no one can uses contraband
anyway, it's an out-of-balance advantage for the UEA. And it's
quite absurd that the 'contraband-hating' police race UEA is the
only race still profiting from the contraband market. Double city
income and the proposed third of the Lizard prisoner income is by far
enough to get a nice economy running.
If the redistribution center is to remain for nostalgic reasons (and as
an adjustable failsave measure, because the contraband could
conceivably return any host), I would propose the following: it only
generates 50 ord and 1 food for each contraband (and nothing else).
While this is about half of what Greg has proposed, it is still jolly
good. It means ord for about half price, and lots of free food.
Anonymous
September 11, 2005 1:34:15 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

I figured I should throw this in while changes are being made. When
the UEA have complex taxes they do not get the extra 2.5x native bonus.
This is either a bug and need to be fixed or it just needs to be
brought out. Any UEA player worth their salt should be on complex
unless their natives far outway their population....so the native bonus
for the most part is nil.

General Kael
Anonymous
September 11, 2005 1:52:30 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Sorry, this isn't an UEA only bug. Lizards are affected, too. I presume
it's a native tax bug, and not a race specific thing.
Anonymous
September 11, 2005 5:29:34 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Um.... what? As far as I know... Lizards don't get a native tax
bonus... just normal taxes.... The UEA still get tax income... but it's
not 2.5x when complex is on.
Anonymous
September 11, 2005 7:16:04 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Uups, sorry, misunderstanding. I meant the normal x3 or so bonus for
complex taxes in general (if you have happiness 300). It is not added
for native taxes. So for all races it's correct that you'll make more
native taxes with enslavement than with complex. Seems that no kind of
bonus is included for natives at complex taxes. If that's by design or
if it's a bug no one knows but Tim.
Anonymous
September 12, 2005 2:44:41 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

> conceivably return any host), I would propose the following: it only
> generates 50 ord and 1 food for each contraband (and nothing else).
> While this is about half of what Greg has proposed, it is still jolly
> good. It means ord for about half price, and lots of free food.

Why don´t cut the food?

Greetings
Sebastian
Anonymous
September 12, 2005 3:41:53 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

I'm starting to get the feeling that Contra has seriously been
adjusted. ;^)

I'd like to see some numbers posted that show the potential that
Contraband now gives empires to generate funds. Once I have a good
feel for the income potential of your average contraband trading race,
I can make the required adjustments. Regardless, the change I've made
is a downward trend, and I feel it is a move in the right direction.
As you all can tell, I do perform regular maintence to my Races. I
like nothing more than lengthy discussions of the changes, thank you
all for your input.

Greg Bahr
UEA Creator
Anonymous
September 12, 2005 3:47:09 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

As to the Arresting Unit, removing the capture bonus totally negates
it's purpose.
I would be willing to entertain a price change.

BTW: Do people think the 200LY range is too great? Should it be less,
150lys, 100lys, same planet only? My logic behind the trait is the
UEA's natural ethos would be to counter the effects of privs, and if
you look closely, they have many traits and features that counter or
resist the effecs of privs. This is just an extention of that ethos.

Greg Bahr
UEA Creator
September 12, 2005 4:36:13 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

> is a downward trend, and I feel it is a move in the right direction.
> As you all can tell, I do perform regular maintence to my Races. I
> like nothing more than lengthy discussions of the changes, thank you
> all for your input.

There are two (relatively) recent contraband changes that I'm aware of
which have had pretty significant impacts on the economics of the game.

1. Less contraband is created by Master

Older versions of Master would routinely create stockpiles of 10,000+
kt of contraband on a single planet. This could be a huge economic
boon to any race that managed to capture it. Recently, though, the
maximum stockpile of contraband I've seen (generated by Master) is just
1,000 kt.

2. Contraband trading generates crime

Many players used to be able to generate significant revenue by buying
and selling contraband every turn. Just watching the market, and
diversifying your investments, could yield excellent returns at
basically zero risk. Now, however, contraband trading is discouraged
by the high crime rates it can cause. I know that some players have
ceased contraband trading entirely, except to sell the items they've
collected from planets.

Contraband, which used to be an essential part of every race's economy,
is now essentially useless to the economics of game (And many players
argue that's a good thing). Not that contraband doesn't still have its
uses; it simply doesn't seem to be used for generating large amounts of
cash.

Meanwhile, the UEA economy has gotten *much* stronger relative the
everybody else. They basically can get all the free ordnance and food
that they want. Food in particular has become extremely important.

Perhaps a good solution might make the redistribution center only work
on contraband which is on a planet's surface, rather that in the base.
That way, you can't just buy tons of contraband (or get it from an
ally!) whenever you need more food/ord. 'Course, you'd probably want
to reduce the tech level in that case, since it would be more of an
early-game investment.
Anonymous
September 12, 2005 6:00:47 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Is there any chance you or someone else can provide comparitive
numbers? I'd like to be able to quantify the difference.

As for the suggestion of only picking up from the planet surface, I
don't think that is such a good idea. If I wanted to go that route, I'd
simply ban purchasing of Contraband.

As the changes seem to be quite extreme, from the response, I want to
see more data. If anyone can help with that task, I would be greatful.

When ever I make a change to one of my races, there are two goals. One
is the important need for balance, and the other is the further
development of the vision or ethos of the race. Many people are often
blind to the second point.
Anonymous
September 12, 2005 6:36:44 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Greg Bahr wrote:
> I'd like to see some numbers posted that show the potential that
> Contraband now gives empires to generate funds.

Well, from my point of view I can give you the requested data quite
easily, especially if you are asking about the potential for profits
from the trading activity itself, and not from related structures or
units:

Zero.

This is a simple calculation because I no longer trade contra. My
experience with the new contraband market (combined with reading about
similar experiences of others) indicates that the profits are not large
enough to justify the investment. As others have pointed out, there
are now in almost every case better ways to invest your money. Thus,
for the sake of comparison, I think it is safe to assume that no
empires are generating any amounts of money from contraband trading,
and adjust the UEA accordingly.

-- Karnak Prime
September 12, 2005 6:45:02 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

> As for the suggestion of only picking up from the planet surface, I
> don't think that is such a good idea. If I wanted to go that route, I'd
> simply ban purchasing of Contraband.

That's not a bad idea either. But there are a couple of points to
consider:

1. Contraband is still needed to get Ghipsoldals to join your base. If
the UEA can't buy contraband then they'll either need another way to
get Ghipsoldals, or they'll be missing out on some of the most
profitable natives.

2. Even if the UEA can't buy contraband directly, their allies could
easily buy it for them. And I'm sure many races would be willing to do
just that for a piece of the action. I hate to see new rules which
just end up making players jump through more hoops/loopholes.


>
> As the changes seem to be quite extreme, from the response, I want to
> see more data. If anyone can help with that task, I would be greatful.
>

I don't have any real data, but I'm pretty good at making stuff up :) 

Under older versions of Host / Master, I'm going to estimate that most
races could probably gather about 2000kt to 4000kt of contraband
(sometimes much more) in the early stages of the game, for a total
profit of around 10k to 20k MC. Now that contraband is found in
smaller deposits, I'd estimate that early-game gathering is closer to
500kt on average (2.5k MC?).

Making up some more numbers, I'd guess that a clever contraband trader,
under the older system, could make a profit of at least 10% a turn,
sometimes much more.

Anyone else care to comment with their contraband experiences under
Host 193/194?
Anonymous
September 12, 2005 7:03:11 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Well, I think banning buying is not the way I want to go.


I'm hoping Tim might chime in with his thoughts on this discussion and
the proposed changes.
Anonymous
September 13, 2005 5:18:58 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

> Making up some more numbers, I'd guess that a clever contraband trader,
> under the older system, could make a profit of at least 10% a turn,
> sometimes much more.

I think 10% is the lower and. If you were lucky you could do 50% profit. In
average I think it was about 20% you can get (this depend on how many races
are in game and if there´s arace that likes the contra. contra at a price of
2 or 3 Mc was usually not worth traiding, thus in early game the profit was
not so great and in mide game it reaches about 20% and stays there).

I got about 3 to 4 times the money from contra than from cities and tax in
mid game. In early game less (exspecially in very early games when you start
with 5mio. colonists).

Greetings
Sebastian
Anonymous
September 14, 2005 1:29:18 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

And I forgot: after the changes I don´t trade contra any more. I just sell
it when I find it.

Greetings
Sebastian


"Sebastian" <Sebastian@nospam.nospam> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:3oong7F6vmmaU3@news.dfncis.de...
>
>> Making up some more numbers, I'd guess that a clever contraband trader,
>> under the older system, could make a profit of at least 10% a turn,
>> sometimes much more.
>
> I think 10% is the lower and. If you were lucky you could do 50% profit.
> In average I think it was about 20% you can get (this depend on how many
> races are in game and if there´s arace that likes the contra. contra at a
> price of 2 or 3 Mc was usually not worth traiding, thus in early game the
> profit was not so great and in mide game it reaches about 20% and stays
> there).
>
> I got about 3 to 4 times the money from contra than from cities and tax in
> mid game. In early game less (exspecially in very early games when you
> start with 5mio. colonists).
>
> Greetings
> Sebastian
>
September 16, 2005 10:44:41 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

There are a few things I've learned about the UEA since I started
playing them. They are a highly mobile race with a good starting game.
BUT, the longer the game goes on the more the need for one thing.
MONEY! This is one thing the UEA does NOT have in any decent quantity
after the first 10 turns or so.

So far I have heard about how double city income and double native tax
rate should more than make up for this and how the UEA doesn't need any
kind of economic boost. These comments "appear" to be coming from folks
who have not put their feet in UEA boots.

Sure, double city income is great (in the beginning), but at turn 30
when your opponents' average homeworld population is 30+ million and
you have only 2 million and the 20 cities that you have built serve
only to further lower your already dismal population growth rate, the
city income boost becomes obsolete. The extra tax bonus you get for
natives, assuming you are able to effectively gather them without nifty
devices like native dustoff, doesn't come close to the tax income lost
from having a horribly low colonist population. And the fact that the
UEA does not have the population surplus necessary to gather natives
(or contra) the "old fashioned" way further limits this special
ability.

I don't think UEA were too powerful to start with. Otherwise, we'd see
a lot more UEA victories, right?

That being said...

Hawking Retaining Center (changes)

Most of these changes are welcome. The previous problem with the HRC
was that there was no real incentive to take the time and resources to
use it. At 40MC/10supply each to build and 5 food/1 supply to use
(each) and only 300 prisoners converted (each), it would take an
inordinate amount of time and resources to convert those 3 million
colonists you just captured on an enemy world (yes, I currently find
myself in that situation).

If I wanted to convert them in say, 10 turns, it would take 1000 HRCs,
at a cost of 40000MC and 10000 supplies to build and 10turns * 1000HRCs
*(5food + 1supply)= 50000 food and 10000 supplies. This seems hardly
worth it, especially with the proposed reduction of food output from
the Distribution Center. Better to just pod them off into deep space.

Under the proposed changes, it would take 300 HRCs, at a cost of
12000MC and 1500 supplies to build and 10 turns with no additional cost
to convert. This seems more reasonable, since it is only a one time
cost and especially with the proposed reduction of food output from the
Distribution Center. OH! But wait! Some of them DIE and "nasty stuff"
can happen to your base?! I thought we were trying to balance things
here. That's like saying "Sorry we shot and killed your dog. Here, have
$1000 as compensation, but we are going to have to take away your first
born child." The cost/rate changes bring an incentive to actually use
the HRCs. Please don't adulterate this much needed change by adding
another negative to the equation.

Generated income is a much needed boost to the UEA's long term
economy. This provides incentive for the UEA to be aggressive and
capture enemy ships and bases. The UEA economy, as it stands now,
deteriorates after the first 10 turns or so. They just can't keep up
with the other race's ability to generate income, most notably tax
and city income. The likelihood of having prisoners early on in the
game is slim, but increases with time. This is the inverse of the
UEA's ability to keep up with other race's economy, so should be a
good balancing factor.

> New cost to build is 40Mcs and 5 Supplies. (Expensive, but maybe worth it with generated income)
> No longer costs any thing to re-educate prisoners. (A welcome change)
> Each Center can process 1000 POWs (A much more reasonable rate)
> HG can not be re-educated. (This seems to make sense)
> A percentage of the personnel will die in the process. That percentage
> is effected by the Lawfulness of the race, the lower the Lawfulness,
> the more personnel that will die.
> This only applies to personnel being re-educated and not those waiting
> on the base. (NOOooo! This would nullify the incentive that the other changes bring)
> Re-education process generates income based on lizard selling formula
> divided by 3. (A much needed boost to the UEA long term economy!)
> Cyborg, Robot, Solorian and Crystal prisoners are not re-educatable. (Any being with free will should be re-trainable. IMO, that means only Robots would be excluded, although they could be "reprogrammed")
> Other nasty things can happen to your base when prisoners are being
> re-educated. (Again, NOOOooo!)
" (suggestion: how about instead of the failure to reeducate a prisoner
into a trooper, the prisoner becomes a citizen/colonist instead. Not
everyone is cut out for the military)

Redistribution Center (changes)

I believe these changes are inexorably tied to the proposed change to
the HRC, It can be a balancing factor only if the changes in the HRC
are implemented as well. Otherwise, it becomes a crippling change. From
the UEA perspective, sure, having all that food is nice, but it does us
no good with our poor population growth rate. Indeed, a UEA player can
easily attain the 100 turn stockpile of food required for maximum
population growth, but even then they lag far behind other races. The
only other purpose for having the surplus of food is to increase the
maximum HG training. This seems to fall within the ethos of the UEA.

As for supplies, one can never have enough supplies. While in my
experience I never found myself lacking in supplies, neither did I
experience a large surplus. The ordinance seems to be a lot at first,
but once the UEA starts building minelayers and bigger ships, the ord
goes FAST. I find myself purchasing contraband often just to keep up
with the ord usage. The MCs are a good return on the initial investment
into the Redistribution Center. I always think of it as certain
trinkets and intangibles produced by the RC.

> The Redistribution Center has become a vital part of the UEA economy. (Indeed!)
> But some tweaking is needed. (maybe)
> 2 Food (The food serves to take a bit of the edge off of a poor pop growth rate; it also helps with HG training. I think it is fine the way it is)
> 1 Supplies (Not sure about this one)
> 1 MCs (Definitely needed)
> 70 Ord (This will force the UEA to take already sparse resources to produce ord to keep up with the demand)

Let's face it folks, comparing the economy of the UEA with that of
other races is like comparing apples and oranges. The race's creator
even describes the UEA economy as delicate. Let's not suggest
sweeping changes to this delicate balance without considering the
potential ramifications to both the UEA player and his opponents. I
have heard a lot of ranting about how the UEA is uber-powerful now
because of the recent changes to contraband. Instead of proposing nerfs
to the UEA to compensate for this (which will reduce the number of UEA
players drastically IMO, and it's already low) let's continue to
tweak the contra system instead.

Other Changes

> Warrant Class Assault Ship
> Hull Trait = Combat Computer negates UEA 1/2 Kill damage (while seemingly useful, this seems to override the UEA ethos of "conquer, capture, and assimilate"

> Hammer Class Troop Carrier
> Mass = 98
> Armor = 250
> Hross Mine Field Resistance (good for surprise assaults, I like it!)

> Battalion Class Troop Carrier
> Armor = 500 (most troop transports are heavily armored, makes sense)

> Hammer and Battalion:
> New Device = Assault Landing = Disables end of turn Dust off and lands
> all Assault Pods on the planet it ends the turn over. Pods are not
> subject to Combat VCR unless Troop Carrier is destroyed. So in effect,
> A Troop Carrier could start a turn over an assault planet and Dust Off
> at the start of a turn and end a turn over an enemy planet and drop all
> assault pods, and beam down all Troops and HG in guest quarters.
(This allows for rapid deployment of troops and is in line with the
tactics of the UEA, IMO)

> Ranger Station
> New Device "Repair Dock"
> Only works when owned by UEA
> Only works on UEA Native hulls
> Completely repairs ship that is the tow target in one turn.
> Uses the amount of repair units the target ship would require to repair
> itself from the Rangers supply.
(I agree with most others on this change. Make this available to all
dry dock ships. Suggestion: limit the repair rate to 2x normal while
allowing the repair required to be used from the dry dock ship. Also
limit this ability to one ship per dry dock per turn. This will avoid
the instant repair of a large fleet of heavily damaged ships, which
could be highly unbalancing.)

> Fighter Changes (The general consensus on the fighter changes is lower cost, lower stats. The current cost is so prohibitive that I have built very few fighters. This is probably a good thing.)

> DOA wings can perform orbital precision strikes if they end the turn
> over base. To target one building type using the command code "b01" to
> "b30" The codes correspond with the order of the buildings listed on
> the base overview screen. Each bomber destroys 1 building. Thirty
> bombers destroy 30 cities or 30 farms. Chances of success depend on
> the number of DOA fighters in the wing. 1% per fighter. AA-Guns will
> each destroy one fighter before it performs it's mission, plus a random
> change to destroy another fighter. (sounds good)

> Contraband Lockdown as a hull trait is removed from all ships
> A regular Contraband Lockdown is added to the Sergeant-at-Arms (This makes the UEA much more ally friendly. A good change.)

> The AU-147 Arresting Unit was not used, and never achieved it's
> designed purpose, so here is the redesign:
>
> Arresting action happens before movement. (So you have to land them
> for a turn before they will capture enemies)
> Attack setting must be Deep Ground Patrols or better.
> Captures 200 colonists, 100 crew, and 5 troops per turn.
> Enemy HG are immune and will protect 1,000 Colonist from capture for
> each HG.
> Arresting Unit combats crime on friendly bases within 200lys.
(I was originally against the 200ly radius effect because I couldn't
see a mech unit having an effect outside of the planet upon which it
resides. However, the rumor mill can be a powerful deterrent.
"I just heard they put 100 arresting units on Centauri Prime!."
"Yeah, I heard that this planet is next!"
"Hmmm, maybe we'd better lay low for awhile."

> Fighting with Insect Natives may or may not work this way. This is the
> way is should work and should be made to work if not.
> Ground unit will fight first. (Currently PA-245 Battle Mech can kill
> 1250 insectoids each.)
> Fighters in the base will fight second. (Currently C-3 Defender can
> kill 800 insectoids each.)
> Troops fight third
> Crew fight forth
> HG will fight fifth
> Colonist fight/die last.
(Indeed, this sounds like how it should work.)

My main fear with all these calls to further decrease the UEA's
ability to produce income is that they will be heeded without
considering the "inside-out" point of view. Most in this forum
appear to be looking from the outside-in at these changes. Indeed, it
seems that many are looking for something to lash out at due to the
recent changes in contraband and the UEA seems like a good target.

The fact of the matter is that if extreme, detrimental changes are made
to the UEA economy based on current contra rules, they may have a
balancing effect in the short run. However, the contra rules change on
almost a monthly basis and I don't see Tim altering a race pack to
accommodate constant changes in the Galactic Market.

My 2MC worth.
Anonymous
September 17, 2005 2:08:06 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Repair dock query...
What if it would work for alien hulls if you had the hull plan in your
database? It would make sense logistically anyways. Thoughts?
GK
Anonymous
September 19, 2005 9:31:33 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

'Tis true...

I can almost always get more from cities than from contra collecting...
and much less risk.

Just drop 1-2 guys to prevent the Dustoff guys from getting it.

BTW, this should be changed. 1 colonist bases should not block
dustoffs... it's just crazy.
Anonymous
September 19, 2005 1:40:36 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

I like that idea.
September 20, 2005 9:40:11 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Before the tuning down of the RC will be too small due to their "mid to
late game weakness" let me remember on an income source which is more
or less independent of their colonists. The UEA can do the following:
Buying food amounts at free will to suport training new 88 HG per
planet per turn on pure HG training worlds (no colonist, no crew are
allowed there. They would let the gain implode and rebreeded crew and
colonist have ot be immediately poded away)

88^2*/SQR(8) ~2700 food is needed.


Early in the game the troops come from own colonists and crew. Later
they use prisoners.

The mc production for training personnel is in general ~ 100 * 100N
/( 100+ N^1.3) where N is the number of new trained personnel. If only
HG will be trained then a reasonable income maximum is produced at +88
new HGs.

Of course you have to set up first the needed structures but then each
such base makes ~2000mc not too bad IMHO.

And not need to do it with +88HG. With +13HG one should get 1000mc each
turn...

GFM GToeroe
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 10:43:57 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

You can still blast them away or capture them and it's better this way
than no protection against dust of.

Jochen
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 12:39:21 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

> Early in the game the troops come from own colonists and crew. Later
> they use prisoners.
>
> The mc production for training personnel is in general ~ 100 * 100N
> /( 100+ N^1.3) where N is the number of new trained personnel. If only
> HG will be trained then a reasonable income maximum is produced at +88
> new HGs.
>
> Of course you have to set up first the needed structures but then each
> such base makes ~2000mc not too bad IMHO.
>
> And not need to do it with +88HG. With +13HG one should get 1000mc each

Oh really? With new additions (Robots, Borgs and similar can't be
converted) and low law races will simply die, prisoners have become a
rare thing for UEA. So they should generate much bigger income to
offset decreased number of enemies colonists they can use. And dying
colonists should generate income, or as someone mentioned become simply
colonists. Say, 50% of them to avoid too much free colonists.

btw, I still do not agree about not converting Robots and others. This
retraining to me seems more like brainwashing, but it falls in theme
with other races.
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 11:31:55 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

> They would let the gain implode and rebreeded crew and
> colonist have ot be immediately poded away)
>

Actually this is wrong. The income from the new number of crew, troops
and High guard are independant from each other. So there is now harm
in keeping the backbred crew/colonists. Amaranthine just recently got
the code from Tim so we know this is correct.

Oh and by themselves the maximum amount of MCs new crew can generate is
about 2. Troops max out at about 5... I believe there is a minimum of
5 if there is any at all. So it's really negligible. As long as
changes are being made maybe the factor at which income decreases
should be either lowered or perhaps even done away with for crew and
troops as the income starts going down after 92(?) new personnel of any
type. So 200 crew = less than 2 mcs unless the minimum comes into
play... don't really know anyone interested in only 92 crew per turn
per base... or troops for that matter... HG are another story...
General Kael
September 21, 2005 4:38:29 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

The money generated by crew and troops does not matters at all. And I
didn't speak about that. It were the HGs I mentioned and they make a
lot of money. And if there is a reduction factor for each type of
trained personnel then it's even better.

I just have seen in sims the low income when crew and troops are
trained and did not take care if at the same time also HGs were
trained.

The key - and this is the core of my posting if you take care - is a
great extra income source which was not discussed in this whole thread
here.

GFM GToeroe
September 22, 2005 6:43:44 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Say, is there a part Amranthine has not the code there?

GFM GToeroe
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