Contraband Market Issue

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Since a recent hostchange the contraband market profits by buying
contra cheap and selling it again next turn got decreased to about
nothing. Before, the profit was about 20% every turn for the right
goods. Granted, that had been a bit much, all the more so because only
a minority of the players had the knack of finding the right contra
(although this was quite simple). A great disadvantage for newbies or
players who didn't care for their turns enough.
When I remember correctly Tim only planned to half the profit margin
with the hostchanges. Well, the changed variable didn't quite behave
as expected. The question is, is this a good thing or not?

I see the main effect of the diminished contraband market in the start
of the game. Previously I invested most of my money in contraband if
possible (to the limit of my population), and invested the surplus
money into tech and ships. Now I have to be content with the money I
get at the start, and whatever meager income is provided by cities and
taxes and race special rules.
That isn't bad per se and I actually enjoy it (and it greatly cut
down my late game micromanagment), but it changes the balance of the
races quite a lot.

Stormers have to hunt for prisoners to boost their economy, but have to
succeed in this with their meager starting capital and their single
Death Specula now. Risky. Birds, Lizards and Aczanny likewise. The EE
have the great boon of their additional 8k cash gift by the emperor.
The Feds, previously a victim race, now can invest into aggravators
(about as profitable as the previous contraband market), allowing them
to bring in money faster than most prisoner races can at the start,
giving them the upper hand in any early border conflict initiated by
the others in a hunt for said prisoners.
The Dracs with their gov center income have probably become a real
early game power (but will likely still be trashed in the late game).
The UEA, not anymore economically challenged by their inability to
trade with contraband but fully enjoying their double city income and
absurd redistribution centers (once implemented as a trade-off for
their inability to profit from the contraband market I think) have
become an early superpower that has to be adjusted.
And so for every race the setup at game start is quite different now.

If the deflated contraband market is here to stay, we need to adjust
these balance questions (most noteably probably the UEA and the Robots,
but there will probably be others).

So, what's your opinion? Should it be possible to use the contraband
market to enhance the economy or not? Do you prefer to change the
market system, or do you like it and prefer to rebalance the economic
traits of some races? Or do you think I am judging this wrongly and all
is perfect as it is? Opinions are welcome :).
15 answers Last reply
More about contraband market issue
  1. Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

    Here are my opinions:
    1) Remove cash generation from mining (!) Bot nests, that is way way
    over the top
    2) Remove crime for dropping contra prices. That concept was introduced
    before the contra market was diminished. To have both is unnecessary
    and causing more harm than gain
    3) Increase contra market values slightly. About 5-10% gain / turn is
    ok, but it shouldn't be more!

    That should solve the biggest problems we currently have - outside
    combat.
  2. Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

    I like the market as-is. I much, much prefer basing the bulk of our
    empires' economies on colonists and cities. The gain from the market
    now is still significant enough for me to invest from time to time, if
    I don't have a more pressing need for my cash. But it's not the
    backbone of my or anyone else's economy.

    Some races have a worse start than others. That's been true for a long
    time, and I've argued against it many times, most notably the massive
    bonus resources for races whose starting ships have large cargo holds.
    The power difference in starting ships is also huge.

    I'm happy for the Feds (who really get screwed on bonus resources and
    ships) and the Dracs (still a worthless race). I agree the
    Redistribution Center needs to be seriously toned down. And I agree
    that starting ships should be reviewed. But I very much love the
    current state of the contraband market. Keep it as a possible side
    bonus, not a major part of a normal economy.

    Scytale
  3. Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

    Keep the contra market as it is please. While everyone has the ability
    to profit from contra trading (more often then not Experienced players)
    I like the aspect of having to rely on ones own colonists and cities
    for income. For me this is closer to what I think the game should be
    all about.
  4. Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

    I agree with Scytale and soxee. Keep the market as it is. I never liked the
    idea to make most of my money from the market and not from my regular (i.e.
    Cities, tax, farms, etc.) sources of income.

    The UEA Redistribution Centers have been proposed to be tuned down (a little
    bit) by Tim (2 food, 1 supply, 1 mc, 70 ord).
    Not sure if this is enough to even them out.

    The equalling out of the starting ships would be very nice. Just let master
    put a fixed amount of goods inside your starting base and get rid of all
    stuff on the starting ships would probably be the easiest way.

    Ralph Hoenig, Germany
  5. Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

    Scytale wrote:
    > I like the market as-is. I much, much prefer basing the bulk of our
    > empires' economies on colonists and cities. The gain from the market
    > now is still significant enough for me to invest from time to time, if
    > I don't have a more pressing need for my cash. But it's not the
    > backbone of my or anyone else's economy.
    >
    > Some races have a worse start than others. That's been true for a long
    > time, and I've argued against it many times, most notably the massive
    > bonus resources for races whose starting ships have large cargo holds.
    > The power difference in starting ships is also huge.
    >
    > I'm happy for the Feds (who really get screwed on bonus resources and
    > ships) and the Dracs (still a worthless race). I agree the
    > Redistribution Center needs to be seriously toned down. And I agree
    > that starting ships should be reviewed. But I very much love the
    > current state of the contraband market. Keep it as a possible side
    > bonus, not a major part of a normal economy.
    >
    > Scytale
    >
    Yes, I was never comfortable with the idea that entire races were based
    on trading in illegal substances. This would never work for the long
    haul required to develop interstellar travel. The only real world
    examples I know of where the "black" market superseded the legitimate
    economy were in the last century, specifically during the Wiemar
    Republic and the dreadful G5 era in post war Germany. We all know what
    came of those experiments, the closest we have come to destroying our
    little ball of rock.

    al
  6. Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

    I like the contra market as it is too, it cuts down micro-management,
    important when you have a large empire. And I used to be able to make
    100% profit each turn on contra, it REALLY needed toning down.

    Gary
  7. Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

    Lord Owl wrote:
    >...
    > The Dracs with their gov center income have probably become a real
    > early game power (but will likely still be trashed in the late game).

    Oh yes the Dracs get such a huge startup bonus.
    Their ships have rudimentary weapons, not like many other races
    good weapons (like PTTs or Plasma Bolt Cannons (Scavs)),
    and in contrast to many other races their ships have not much armor
    (rebels etc. have big armor levels available) - how lucky that the bots
    and birds (etc.) only have a few ships which can wipe
    out all their starting ships (of course some races have mostly
    weaponless
    ships at these stage, but then you can hardly call
    these Drac starting ships warships - anyway you will not call the 4
    Orvilles
    warships, that are just armed scouts).

    Now lets look at the big amount of surplus stuff they get to build up
    Gov Centers fast (after all that is how they are getting according to
    your reasoning their start-up bonus). They do get 42 Meds
    (unimportant),
    82 food (this certainly helps to give a base with 500 k Colos maximum
    growth - you do know how much other races do get?) and a big amount
    of 164 supplies which helps to build up about 1.64 gov centers, hmm
    that might help a little to counter depending on starting population
    the higher population growth of other races, which do start of with
    enough food
    and have a higher growth rate (wondering if any other race gets less
    stuff on their starting ships? -
    This question is rethorical as all other races get more!).
    The Dracs do not have a pod launcher and will have ie. with 5 million
    colonists
    starting population (and their stockpile of a few hundred food)
    have a population growth that rivals that of the borg if they do
    not have their HG on their main base(!). And that without building
    additional
    Training Centers on their HW, which they should since they cannot get a
    training
    base running before turn 3, on turn 3 they will have a pod launcher and
    with a ship with pod
    bays, one of their two starting Dreysens nearby otherwise they need to
    wait until hull tech
    has reached 3 or need another planet really close by (about 20 lys),
    they can then move a sufficient amount
    of Colonists to such a base (but then it is not always smart as a Drac
    to set up a training base as it
    is very vulnerable from orbit). So they will probably want to build a
    decent amount of
    training centers on their HW and these will also cost some of their
    starting supplies, and they
    do get a whole lot of that.
    Now lets take a closer look on how fast they can get their huge startup
    bonus from the
    gov centers (we always need to take into account that the other races
    will have more
    cities, do not have to spend supplies on so many gov centers, a higher
    growth rate and
    do not need to move their population to get additional income from the
    cities - granted
    a city only generates about 25 % of the money the gov center does for
    the Dracs - and
    that they do not need to move their supplies to get money from their
    cities since they can build them on their HW):
    They will need to build a whole lot of factories on their HW - so no
    big income from Cities in the beginning,
    other races can get that even on turn 1 or 2.
    >From turn 2 on they can use these supplies (if they have ships nearby
    with enough cargo room,
    otherwise they will need more than 1 ship) to build additional Gov
    Centers.
    Of course on the planets they want to set-up Gov Centers might be
    useable supplies,
    which they have to beam up with their ships (the Orvilles have a really
    low cargo room
    not able to hold even 100 supplies, so the Dreysens and Security
    Vessels need to be used
    for that, otherwise it will be really slow) unless they move a decent
    number of Colonists along and
    are counting on the Colonists to gather the needed supplies fast, not
    to mention that there need
    to be enough supplies (under low surface stuff settings there will not
    be any).
    And then it will take the Dracs always at least 3 turns from setting up
    a base
    and getting money as income from the Gov Center, since all new
    formed bases (which are not scripted or are a HW) have the Gov Centers
    when build turned off, so after building one turn is needed to switch
    them on and get money.
    And then all of their ships with decent cargo room or pod bays do need
    at least 2 engines (also
    all ships which have a decent tow capacitiy) so they will only get 3
    relatively
    fast ships with the starting engines on their HW. Otherwise they need
    4-5 engine upgrades
    to build Turbo/Thylium Thrusters, which are relatively expensive -
    especially if you have to fit 2 instead
    of one as other races.
    I could go on, but I guess you do get the point (aside from that with
    some starting population settings
    they might have the choice between trying to maximize the growth on
    their HW and putting up a few more Gov Centers,
    as they do not get the stuff from the neighbouring planets very fast to
    their HW, which are not within range
    of 100 lys).
    Sure they might in between turn 10 and maybe 15 more money (per turn)
    than some other races,
    but for that the amount of planets in their vicinity needs to be high
    (aside from the other races have made more money in the turns 1 to 10).
    All in all the contra change did only reduce the head start of other
    races...

    ps. Are you wondering whether the meager Death Spec of the Stormer is
    enough to destroy all Drac starting ships without getting its hull
    damaged?
    Or one of the birds starting Skyfires, or the Lizard Cruiser, or the
    Aczanny Gander (this ships might be tricky if it stays too long to
    close to the Drac ships), or the UEA sentinel (probably the easiest for
    the Dracs to win with heavily damaged starting ships)?

    pps. To really appreciate what the Dracs have you would need to play
    them yourself (your post did convince me of that). And then preferable
    in a game where only one race can win, no alliance, so that you cannot
    make an alliance with a weaker player and win that way (by indirectly
    playing another race too)... Oh and in that case do not even think
    about winning, you will most likely not even get the glimpse of a
    chance.
  8. Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

    Please Keep the market as it is.

    Lord Lancelot
  9. Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

    Does anyone buy anything in the hopes of turning a profit anymore
    (other than the UEA)?

    Kerria will be purchased by Robots and those trying to entice Ghips.
    Spice will be purchased by those trying to entice Worms.
    Robots will buy Emotion Chips for happiness.
    Scavs might buy anything depending on cost and what they can break it
    down into.

    Anything else?

    Tim's idea of some kind of bonus for having a stockpile may be the only
    real way to keep Contraband from going the way of Meds.
  10. Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

    I like the market as it is now, too. PLease keep it.

    Greetings
    Sebastian
  11. Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

    How would your improvements for the Dracs look like?

    GFM GToeroe


    Nameless schrieb:
    > Lord Owl wrote:
    >
    >>...
    >>The Dracs with their gov center income have probably become a real
    >>early game power (but will likely still be trashed in the late game).
    >
    >
    > Oh yes the Dracs get such a huge startup bonus.
    > Their ships have rudimentary weapons, not like many other races
    > good weapons (like PTTs or Plasma Bolt Cannons (Scavs)),
    > and in contrast to many other races their ships have not much armor
    > (rebels etc. have big armor levels available) - how lucky that the bots
    > and birds (etc.) only have a few ships which can wipe
    > out all their starting ships (of course some races have mostly
    > weaponless
    > ships at these stage, but then you can hardly call
    > these Drac starting ships warships - anyway you will not call the 4
    > Orvilles
    > warships, that are just armed scouts).
    >
    > Now lets look at the big amount of surplus stuff they get to build up
    > Gov Centers fast (after all that is how they are getting according to
    > your reasoning their start-up bonus). They do get 42 Meds
    > (unimportant),
    > 82 food (this certainly helps to give a base with 500 k Colos maximum
    > growth - you do know how much other races do get?) and a big amount
    > of 164 supplies which helps to build up about 1.64 gov centers, hmm
    > that might help a little to counter depending on starting population
    > the higher population growth of other races, which do start of with
    > enough food
    > and have a higher growth rate (wondering if any other race gets less
    > stuff on their starting ships? -
    > This question is rethorical as all other races get more!).
    > The Dracs do not have a pod launcher and will have ie. with 5 million
    > colonists
    > starting population (and their stockpile of a few hundred food)
    > have a population growth that rivals that of the borg if they do
    > not have their HG on their main base(!). And that without building
    > additional
    > Training Centers on their HW, which they should since they cannot get a
    > training
    > base running before turn 3, on turn 3 they will have a pod launcher and
    > with a ship with pod
    > bays, one of their two starting Dreysens nearby otherwise they need to
    > wait until hull tech
    > has reached 3 or need another planet really close by (about 20 lys),
    > they can then move a sufficient amount
    > of Colonists to such a base (but then it is not always smart as a Drac
    > to set up a training base as it
    > is very vulnerable from orbit). So they will probably want to build a
    > decent amount of
    > training centers on their HW and these will also cost some of their
    > starting supplies, and they
    > do get a whole lot of that.
    > Now lets take a closer look on how fast they can get their huge startup
    > bonus from the
    > gov centers (we always need to take into account that the other races
    > will have more
    > cities, do not have to spend supplies on so many gov centers, a higher
    > growth rate and
    > do not need to move their population to get additional income from the
    > cities - granted
    > a city only generates about 25 % of the money the gov center does for
    > the Dracs - and
    > that they do not need to move their supplies to get money from their
    > cities since they can build them on their HW):
    > They will need to build a whole lot of factories on their HW - so no
    > big income from Cities in the beginning,
    > other races can get that even on turn 1 or 2.
    >>From turn 2 on they can use these supplies (if they have ships nearby
    > with enough cargo room,
    > otherwise they will need more than 1 ship) to build additional Gov
    > Centers.
    > Of course on the planets they want to set-up Gov Centers might be
    > useable supplies,
    > which they have to beam up with their ships (the Orvilles have a really
    > low cargo room
    > not able to hold even 100 supplies, so the Dreysens and Security
    > Vessels need to be used
    > for that, otherwise it will be really slow) unless they move a decent
    > number of Colonists along and
    > are counting on the Colonists to gather the needed supplies fast, not
    > to mention that there need
    > to be enough supplies (under low surface stuff settings there will not
    > be any).
    > And then it will take the Dracs always at least 3 turns from setting up
    > a base
    > and getting money as income from the Gov Center, since all new
    > formed bases (which are not scripted or are a HW) have the Gov Centers
    > when build turned off, so after building one turn is needed to switch
    > them on and get money.
    > And then all of their ships with decent cargo room or pod bays do need
    > at least 2 engines (also
    > all ships which have a decent tow capacitiy) so they will only get 3
    > relatively
    > fast ships with the starting engines on their HW. Otherwise they need
    > 4-5 engine upgrades
    > to build Turbo/Thylium Thrusters, which are relatively expensive -
    > especially if you have to fit 2 instead
    > of one as other races.
    > I could go on, but I guess you do get the point (aside from that with
    > some starting population settings
    > they might have the choice between trying to maximize the growth on
    > their HW and putting up a few more Gov Centers,
    > as they do not get the stuff from the neighbouring planets very fast to
    > their HW, which are not within range
    > of 100 lys).
    > Sure they might in between turn 10 and maybe 15 more money (per turn)
    > than some other races,
    > but for that the amount of planets in their vicinity needs to be high
    > (aside from the other races have made more money in the turns 1 to 10).
    > All in all the contra change did only reduce the head start of other
    > races...
    >
    > ps. Are you wondering whether the meager Death Spec of the Stormer is
    > enough to destroy all Drac starting ships without getting its hull
    > damaged?
    > Or one of the birds starting Skyfires, or the Lizard Cruiser, or the
    > Aczanny Gander (this ships might be tricky if it stays too long to
    > close to the Drac ships), or the UEA sentinel (probably the easiest for
    > the Dracs to win with heavily damaged starting ships)?
    >
    > pps. To really appreciate what the Dracs have you would need to play
    > them yourself (your post did convince me of that). And then preferable
    > in a game where only one race can win, no alliance, so that you cannot
    > make an alliance with a weaker player and win that way (by indirectly
    > playing another race too)... Oh and in that case do not even think
    > about winning, you will most likely not even get the glimpse of a
    > chance.
    >
  12. Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

    GFM GToeroe wrote:
    > How would your improvements for the Dracs look like?
    >
    > GFM GToeroe
    >
    >

    Well I am going to be concret (eventhough in the long run they will
    still
    need to be tweaked a bit and considering that I have more or less just
    written it down in a short time
    I might be overdoing some things - eventhough I can give a reason for
    all changes).
    Starting Ships:
    - Draco Class Starbase (best shields, best generators,
    8 TLs + 2 MMLs, 5 good small and large weapons),
    guest quarters having 5 k + X * 1 k troops(X*100 k = normal starting
    Colonist population) and 10 + X*20 HG (X as before),
    cargo room with 300 supplies and
    food (per 100 k normal starting population), full fuel tanks and
    max ord and repair units.

    - 2 Balka Class Vanguards (FTLW5 engines, 900 shields,
    PTTs and Disruptors, 2 Flake Cannons) - normal cargo and guest
    quarters.

    - 4 Orvilles (as of now)

    - 2 Artemis Class Stargate Builders (normal weaponry (as most ships
    have),
    max shields, and FTLW1 Drives)- normal cargo and guest quarters

    -1 Rostov Class AA Gunship (8 TLs + 2 MMLs, 1 SC + 1 Heavy Laser,
    max shields and FTLW5 Drives) - normal cargo and guest quarters

    - 2 Dreysen (as of now)

    Changes to part prices for Draconians:
    - Tech 4 shields cost 65 mcs, tech 5 shields: 93 mcs and tech 6 shields
    100 mcs, tech 7 shields cost 400 mcs.
    - Heavy Laser cost 5 mcs, Merculite Rockets cost 20 mcs, 500 mm Guns
    cost 20 mcs, Sand Casters cost 80 mcs,
    Fusion Cannon costs 100 mcs, AntiMatter Gun costs 40 mcs, all other
    LWs (except for PTTs) of tech 9 and below
    cost only 50 % of the normal costs, all LWs of tech 10 and higher
    cost only 90 %.
    - All small weapons (except for Pulsed Laser and Laser and Disruptors)
    cost 30 mcs
    - all generators (above tech 2) are reduced by 10% in the costs, the t2
    generator costs 4 mcs.

    changes to assault units: reducing the costs by 50% (rounding down).
    changes to fighters: doubleing fuel capacity (but not the fighters warp
    speed) of all types
    and reducing costs to 20 mc for T1, 40 mc for T2
    and 60 mc for T3.
    (reducing T2 and T3 armor to 18 since more does
    not have any real effect
    anyway).


    Changes to existing ship hulls:
    - Draco Class Starbase (as current suggestion on H.Benne's homepage
    except for devices,
    max speed and engines and of course it should be toweable):
    keeping all current deives of the Draco Class Starbase and adding
    Food-To-Supply-Converter,
    Mobile Repair Plant, Mobile Ord Factory and Repair Dock (as on
    H.Benne's HP)
    - Eridanus: As changed by H.Benne except for costs (keeping old hull
    costs) and PD slots
    - Scimitar: As changed by H.Benne except for small weapon count and max
    speed
    - Polaris Class Fighter Builder: reducing engine count to 3, increasing
    max speed to 80,
    increasing fighter bay number to 20, fighter bay size to 50,
    increasing max repair to 2 k,
    removing generators (it does not need any anyway) and adding repair
    dock as suggested by
    H.Benne
    - Balka,Orville: no changes
    - Rostov: no changes
    - Oberth Class Assaultship: changing Barb Minedropper to
    LaserMineDropper and reducing warp signature to 5 and raising fighter
    bay size to 100 and raising evasive bonus to 80.
    - Fang: no changes
    - AD-22 Marauder: changing guest quarters to 1 k, changing warp
    signature to 20, raising mass to 150 (as it needs 150 metals)
    - DR Security Vessel: Warp Signature 0 (it will still be raised above 0
    if moving beaming stuff to something which does not belong to the Dracs
    etc)
    - Dreysen: reducing hull costs to 100 mcs.
    - Westfalen: Adding attack bonus of 80 and changing weapon mount size
    to 800
    - Titus: raising generator count to 5, adding attack bonus of 30 and
    evasive bonus of 30 and raising weapon mount size to 2000
    - Kalinin: raising fighter bay number to 20 and raising bay size to
    100, raising evasive bonus to 40.
    - Pegasi: no change.
    - Hydra: raising fighter bay count to 20 and reducing fighter bay size
    to 10, reducing engine count to 1.
    - Artemis: no change.
    - Krait: no change (?)
    - Organic ship: changeing metals to 0.

    -special hull abilities (all of them only working when owned by
    Draconian):
    - all engines with a top speed of 50 or below have double max speed on
    all Drac native hulls, if
    flying above normal top speed they cannot tow and burn an additional
    amount of fuel.
    - Eridanus: Heavy Lasers have only charge time of 8 but 5 times the
    power drain.
    - Scimitar,Balka: Streak Missiles have a charge time of 10 but 4 times
    the energy drain
    - Mizar,Oberth: AntiMatterGun has max range of 660 and accuracy is 50.
    - Rostov: All Sandcasters on this ship are energized Sandcasters even
    if ET is not purchased
    - Fang: shield power of fitted shields are tripled, shield limit is
    still 1200 points
    - AD-22 Marauder: 10000 armor arc with Ion Cannons, but 5 times energy
    drain
    - Pegasi: This ships weapons will ignore the enemy ships evasive
    rating.
    - Hydra,Kalinin,Titus,Westfalen,DR Security Vessel: n/a
    - Artemis (when Drac owned): needs 1 k kt of supplies and 1 k mc to
    build a jumpgate (this
    jumpgate will be owned by the Dracs).
    - Krait: n/a
    -Organic ship: needs 120 supplies to be build
    - Draco: Priv Cargo Grappler does not work on this ship (as all other
    hull abilities this only works
    if in Drac hands).

    Drac HW:
    - removing the starting City,
    - adding Pod Launch Pad,
    - Ion Cannons: 10 Ion Cannons (per 100 k normal starting population)
    - AA Guns: 55 AA Guns (per 100 k normal starting population)
    - Undercities: 1 Undercity per 100 k starting Colonists on the Drac HW
    - adding Goverment Center
    - Drac HW has a soil rating of 200 and a climate of 40.
    - Drac HW has 200 farms.
    - additional metals(core): for each universal 'Ore in core' setting
    below above average 10 k kt of additional ore (all 4 types) in
    the core of the Drac HW
    - additional parts: 1 Nemesis Torpedo, +3 shields with power 3000 (+2
    of all other types),
    2 LTLA, 2 TLA, 4 Ion Gun Arrays, 5 off all other Large Weapons, 10 of
    each generator type.
    And 4 engines of each type with FTL in the name.
    - the HW has 10 k amphibs (per 100 k normal starting population).


    Drac (special abilities etc.):
    - Public Spaceport: Does not generate new natives (or only at a reduced
    chance),
    only Chupanoids are able to leave a Drac base via Public Spaceport,
    migration to
    Drac Public Spaceport is halved (exception: Chupanoids), allows per
    present Public Spaceport 1k personel (Colonists,Crew,Troops,HG)
    to be send to another Drac(same race number) owned Public Spaceport
    (reasoning: all Drac ships are some kind of war machinery and
    they do not have freighters, so do not let them really need any at
    least for personel).
    Public Spaceports will generate 1 kt of N,D,T,M per 1 HG on the Drac
    HW (additional PSPs on the HW will not generate more metals).
    - From turn 20 on, they do get an increased amount of rp allocation
    points for
    the Drac HW (every 1 million Colonists on the Drac HW will count as a
    1 million Colonist base -
    so a 10 million Drac HW counts as 10 bases with 1 million Colonists).
    - Drac HW, is immune to Omega Pulse, S-Pulse and World-Crusher-Missiles
    (even if Transphased World Crusher ET is purchased)
    - Drac HW has a Grav Well with 100 ly radius that can not be disabled
    (might need to be reduced on small maps),
    not even by Gravity Rift generators (maybe making an exception for
    the RCS with an Odin)
    - Farms: either allowing prisoners to count as Colonists on the farms
    (forced farm labour) or
    have the farms automated so that they do not need personel to
    be run.
    I prefer the first one.
    - Training Centers: On the Drac HW Training Centers do not reduce the
    growth rate.
    - Dracs are not downbreeding personel: Crew are producing Crew , Troops
    are producing Troops and HW are producing new HG,
    at the rate they would normally be downbreeding (so at the rate the
    Colonists do breed).
    - new Special Race Building (limit 1 per race): Which cannot be
    destroyed by Rebel Ground Assault,
    which marks the Drac HW. Tech should be 13 and it should be really
    expensive (in both supplies and mcs - ie. more than 30 k mc and 5000
    supplies)- the Dracs will start with one
    on their HW. (They are not supposed to loose it). Ground Base Chunnel
    will destroy the building.
    - Without prisoners (and criminal natives) the Drac HW is immune to
    base sabotage/spy missions
    (which are not led by the birds)
    - All by the Dracs build Goverment Centers are automatically switched
    on
    - Drac jumpgates: Other races can only travel through them if the owner
    (the Dracs) do travel to or
    from that jumpgate the same turn. And the Drac will know what did
    travel through its jumpgate (even if
    it is normally cloaked). Drac Jumpgates can be destroyed if an enemy
    ship with LWs is in the same x,y position as the jumpgate for
    one complete turn (and has the JG set as kill target).
    - Lizards sell Drac HG at the same price as they sell troops - sold HGs
    will reappear on a Drac base (the last part might be abuseable)
    - Ship Weapon Exotics: The upkeep costs of all these ETs are divided by
    10
    - Battle Computer and Jammer Exotics: initial costs are halved.
    - Fighter ECM and Anti-Fighter Computer: initial costs are halved.
    - Shield ETs (B and C): upkeep costs are reduced by 20 %.
    - Borlox armor: initial costs and upkeep reduced to: 15 k and 4 k.
    - Energized Sandcasters: initial costs and upkeep reduced by 10%.
    - new build Drac ships will always have the skill rating the ship would
    have if build on the Drac HW (if no HW exists this is not applied)
    - new build Drac ships will start of with 40 exp (if Drac HW does
    exist)
    - increased exp awarding for surviving Drac ships: each by the Dracs
    shot down fighter will give 1 exp (if T1), 2 exp (if T2) and
    3 exp (if T3), shot down ships will give (double ?) normal exp. All
    these exp points are summed up during vcr and after combat divided
    equally
    on all surviving Drac ships.
    - By other races captured Drac ships, reduce their skill to 50 (if it
    was higher) and their exp to 40 (if it was higher before).
    - Drac HW is immune to Insectoid nests of the Bots (and the effects of
    the Eye of Madagon).
    - Privs cannot steal food from the Drac HW.
    (- Drac HW cannot be towed by the IMT)
  13. Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

    IMO, Way to much special rules, give them more ships devices, increase
    stats on ships, and maybe change some race stats.

    Lord Lancelot
  14. Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

    Nameless, I only had a short look at your Drac ideas below. It's a
    parody, right? The starting stuff alone is enough to clear entire maps.

    Anyway, I would thank you if you wouldn't hijack this tread. It's
    about the contraband market, not Draconians. Start a new thread of your
    own, please.
  15. Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

    As you say.

    (Somehow I thought that my last planets related post would be longer)


    Lord Owl wrote:
    > Nameless, I only had a short look at your Drac ideas below. It's a
    > parody, right? The starting stuff alone is enough to clear entire maps.
    >
    > Anyway, I would thank you if you wouldn't hijack this tread. It's
    > about the contraband market, not Draconians. Start a new thread of your
    > own, please.
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