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Assistance in a new Sandy Bridge system

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April 7, 2011 3:18:50 PM

I've been offered the chance to build a new system, so I would like a Sandy Bridge build (if they are back on the market, of course)

Approximate Purchase Date: This week


Budget Range: 1800 to 2000 (after rebates)


System Usage from Most to Least Important: Animation/Digital Art, Gaming, Movies, Internet


Parts Not Required: Keyboard, Mouse, Speakers


Preferred Website(s) for Parts: newegg.com or ncix.com


Country of Origin: USA


Parts Preferences: Sandy Bridge build


Overclocking: No


SLI or Crossfire: Maybe (If a single graphics card can do the job at a good price, I have no problem with one video card)


Monitor Resolution: 1920x1200


Additional Comments: As quiet as possible, not an energy hog.
April 7, 2011 4:12:09 PM

what sort of animation work will you be doing?

My first thought is an i7-2600 (K if you want to overclock, but otherwise just the regular one)

a 120 GB SSD for boot and animation work
a 2 TB Drive for data storage (Samsung's 2 TB F4 drive is a good choice)
A pair of GTX 560 in SLI or a single 580
a 650w PSU
a mid-tower case of your choice
a cheap DVD burner
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Best solution

April 7, 2011 6:51:07 PM

Nice budget! Here goes...

COOLER MASTER HAF 922 RC-922M-KKN1-GP Black Steel + Plastic and Mesh Bezel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case
$99.98, free shipping, $10 mail-in-rebate

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Intel Core i7-2600K Sandy Bridge 3.4GHz (3.8GHz Turbo Boost) LGA 1155 95W Quad-Core Desktop Processor BX80623I72600K
GIGABYTE GA-P67A-UD4-B3 LGA 1155 Intel P67 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard
$494.48, free shipping


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G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 16GB (4 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9Q-16GBXL
$229.99, free shipping

You can get 2x 8GB kits for $30 less. But G.Skill tests all four dimms to ensure they work together. These are 1600MHz 1.5v sticks, which is recommended for P67. P67 defaults all ram to 1333MHz, but all that is needed for correct frequency is to enable 'XMP Profile' in the EUFI/BIOS.

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MSI N580GTX Twin Frozr II/OC GeForce GTX 580 (Fermi) 1536MB 384-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card
$499.99, free shipping

OR

PowerColor PCS+ AX6970 2GBD5-PP2DHG Radeon HD 6970 Call of Duty Edition 2GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.1 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card with Eyefinity
$374.99, $7.87 shipping

Both have aftermarket coolers. The GTX 580 is the top dawg as far as single GPU cards are concerned. The HD 6970 is AMD's best single GPU card. It is less power hungry, but is comparable to the GTX 570 (in price and performance). Both should give you plenty of fps while gaming. I'm not sure how/if they will benefit your animation/digital art requirements. I've heard CUDA (nVIDIA) enhances performance in Adobe programs, but don't know for sure.

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XFX Black Edition XPS-850W-BES 850W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS SILVER Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply
$149.99, $5.99 shipping, $20 mail-in-rebate

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SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ 1TB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive
$64.99, free shipping

You might want to consider getting two of these for a RAID 0 stripe. You will double the throughput and get exceptional speed (for mechanical drives). This should help with your animation/digital art rendering times.

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Intel 510 Series (Elm Crest) SSDSC2MH120A2K5 2.5" 120GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)
$284.99, free shipping

The Vertex 3 is faster, but you have to be quick when they show up on Newegg. You won't notice the Vertex 3's faster speeds unless you do benchmarking.

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Samsung 22X SATA DVD Burner - Bulk - OEM
$18.99, $4.99 shipping, free shipping w/ promo code EMCKFKC38, ends 4/13

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Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit for System Builders - OEM
$99.99, free shipping

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Total: $2008.38 + $5.99(shipping) - $30(MIR) = $1984.37

Note that this total is with the GTX580 and 2x Samsung F3 HDD. Also, this includes the stock Intel heatsink/fan. An aftermarket one can be added later when/if you decide to overclock. I would suggest the Corsair H50/H60/H70 (or similar) watercooler due to its low profile/small footprint.
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April 7, 2011 8:19:39 PM

Very nice build nd_hunter, between the Intel® Core™ I7 2600K and the Intel SSD 510 SATA III 120GB drive this system is going to be a great one. Like nd_hunter stated as soon as you want to overclock on this chip pick up a nice 3rd party heatsink. I have heard of people reach to almost 5GHz off air so I don’t know how much you need a water cooler but there might be some space issues in this case.

Christain Wood
Intel Enthusiast Team
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April 7, 2011 8:35:01 PM

Yes Intel, big air is superior to this type of water cooler. However, I believe most reasonably priced tower air coolers will run into problems with the height of the heatspreaders that come with those Ripjaws populating all 4 DIMMs. I think the Corsair H** (or similar) would be superior to a top-down style air cooler, excluding some Noctua models (but they are just as spendy).
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April 7, 2011 8:42:31 PM

First off, Sandy Bridge product is back on store shelves.

If you're doing photo/video editing i'd suggest an i7, maybe 1 or 2 5970's, (depending on how hardcore the photo editing/games are). Internet and DVD/Blu-ray would be an afterthought with the other specs, besides the optical (i'd get a blu-ray for futureproofing, they're like 20 bucks more and blu-ray doesn't seem to be going anywhere anytime soon)

Are you comfortable with Linux or would you be going with a windows based system?

One other thing i'd say, not sure if you'd thought of it, but you probably want 2 monitors attatched to this for extra desk space if you're doing photo editing. Unless you're interested in OCing i'd doubt you'd need any fancy cooling, you could get by with only a few fans and an aftermarket copper heatsink.

feedback?
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April 8, 2011 6:11:52 PM

ScrewySqrl said:
what sort of animation work will you be doing?



Maya and zBrush works, also heavy emphasis on Photoshop and Illustrator, with audio editing as well. I need a system that can edit audio tracks, such as voice tracks.
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April 8, 2011 6:13:04 PM

Nice, nd_hunter!!!!!
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April 8, 2011 6:16:09 PM

internetlad said:
First off, Sandy Bridge product is back on store shelves.

If you're doing photo/video editing i'd suggest an i7, maybe 1 or 2 5970's, (depending on how hardcore the photo editing/games are). Internet and DVD/Blu-ray would be an afterthought with the other specs, besides the optical (i'd get a blu-ray for futureproofing, they're like 20 bucks more and blu-ray doesn't seem to be going anywhere anytime soon)

Are you comfortable with Linux or would you be going with a windows based system?

One other thing i'd say, not sure if you'd thought of it, but you probably want 2 monitors attatched to this for extra desk space if you're doing photo editing. Unless you're interested in OCing i'd doubt you'd need any fancy cooling, you could get by with only a few fans and an aftermarket copper heatsink.

feedback?

Games, animation and digital art works are going to be pretty hardcore. My photoshop files average a 1 gigabyte of info. Medical illustration is what I do, so we dabble into a bit of everything.

Windows based. I don't know Linux well enough to say I would use that. If had experience using it I would consider it, of course.

Two monitors? That's actually a good idea. With what I do, it would help a lot actually. I'm not interested in overclocking. Do you think I should just stick to air fans and avoid water cooling then?
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April 8, 2011 6:30:54 PM

Thanks! Perhaps you might consider an audio card also. You might have one that you can recycle. You might want to look at some sort of ASUS Xonar card. Creative makes great cards too, but I think they are more geared towards gaming. With this being said, onboard sound has come a long way, to the point where I think it's silly to get a separate card for gaming. The audio on my P8P67 LE is better than my old SB Audigy SE 7.1. Perhaps there are some audiophiles on here who could chime in, or you could post a question in the sound card section.
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April 8, 2011 6:36:43 PM

bubbasmith1 said:
Do you think I should just stick to air fans and avoid water cooling then?


Absolutely. The water cooling I mentioned was an all-in-one unit designed to cool just the CPU and is very simple to use. However, no overclocking (and even a slight OC) means stick with the stock cooler. It is more than sufficient.
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April 8, 2011 6:46:38 PM

nd_hunter said:
Perhaps you might consider an audio card also. You might have one that you can recycle. .


I've been using onboard sound for all my gaming needs and I've been more than happy with it.

Unless you're looking to offload that marginal amount of system resources onto a sound card, it would be wasted money in my opinion. To be honest (it's just speculation, i'm not an audiophile) but i'd bet that onboard sound would be equivalent to that of a sound card more than a few years old.
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April 8, 2011 7:02:32 PM

internetlad said:
I've been using onboard sound for all my gaming needs and I've been more than happy with it.

Unless you're looking to offload that marginal amount of system resources onto a sound card, it would be wasted money in my opinion. To be honest (it's just speculation, i'm not an audiophile) but i'd bet that onboard sound would be equivalent to that of a sound card more than a few years old.


I think you're both right. What audio editing I do already for school work and voice acting, the video cards we have installed on our program's computers more than handle the job. It's more important to have a decent audio program, like Soundbooth, than an extra audio card. I think we can do without it and go with the audio on the vid card.
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April 8, 2011 7:08:36 PM

@ internetlad...Did you read the whole post I made about audio?

@bubba...Good. More money for other goodies. :)  Do you want to give us an update on the components you have made your mind up on or are still considering?
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April 8, 2011 7:50:19 PM

nd_hunter said:
@ internetlad...Did you read the whole post I made about audio?

I just re-read it and realized i pretty much mirrored what you said lol

as for the water cooling thing it can be considered less stable than air cooling, in case of a failure you're quite possibly looking at your computer taking a bath, which you'd want to avoid. Water cooling usually means regular maintenance as well (checking liquid levels, filling, cleaning) VS. blowing out with a can of air or compressor if you're using air cooling.
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April 8, 2011 8:48:12 PM

nd_hunter said:
@ internetlad...Did you read the whole post I made about audio?

@bubba...Good. More money for other goodies. :)  Do you want to give us an update on the components you have made your mind up on or are still considering?


Madness I am sold on:

Coolor Master HAF 922 case...I'm a fan of Cooler Master. And I've been eyeing that case for a while. And other people have recommended to that case in other builds.

Gigabyte GA-P67A Mother board...schweeeet!

G.Skill Ripjaws X 16GB...I am completely out of touch with RAM now, since it's been so long since I've build a system. That being said, these sticks blew me away.

Spinpoint Hard drives...Sold! Twice! And to boot, I have two WD Black Caviars 1 tbs waiting for a new case to call home :) 

Samsung x22 SATA DVD burner...good deal.

Madness I am almost sold on:

Video Card...the MSI N580GTX Twin Frozr II. The reason is that CUDA does enhance Adobe Suite products, like CS4 and CS 5. Otherwise, I would try the Radeon. I've never had a Radeon card. Now, if you guys can convince me the Radeon is a good card unto itself, I could go for this one.

Power Supply...out of stock currently, though it seems like one hell of a unit. Anywhere else I could get it, or a comparable unit out there?

The i7-2600k seems like a great chip, but I am curious. Wouldn't an i5-2500k be nearly as good at a significant price reduction? Or is there that much of a difference? I just ask because I don't know. Love the motherboard, and I definetly want to keep that one if possible.

Intel 510 120 GB solid state chip. Any benefit over having a 40 GB Intel solid state chip instead? Other than the increased GB size.
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April 8, 2011 8:54:46 PM

Just saw your reply on my way out the door from work. Will comment later tonight.
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April 8, 2011 8:59:56 PM

I recommend against 2 video cards. I know Adobe products do NOT utilize two video cards and I would wager that is the same for most, if not all producton type software.

Also, if you make heavy use of photoshop - especially with large files - then I recommend creating a scratch drive out of two hard drives in RAID 0. That alone is pretty much the largest performance increase you can have for photoshop.
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April 8, 2011 9:14:36 PM

jgr_bgpc said:
I recommend against 2 video cards. I know Adobe products do NOT utilize two video cards and I would wager that is the same for most, if not all producton type software.

Also, if you make heavy use of photoshop - especially with large files - then I recommend creating a scratch drive out of two hard drives in RAID 0. That alone is pretty much the largest performance increase you can have for photoshop.


That was suggested, also. I am in full agreement.
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April 8, 2011 9:16:46 PM

jgr_bgpc said:
I recommend against 2 video cards. I know Adobe products do NOT utilize two video cards and I would wager that is the same for most, if not all producton type software.



sorry for the double post but can it utilize double GPU on a single card?

and the bit with the scratch drive is a great idea.
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April 8, 2011 9:32:03 PM

internetlad said:
sorry for the double post but can it utilize double GPU on a single card?

and the bit with the scratch drive is a great idea.


I would wager that it can't. All uses of GPU and adobe that I've seen has been with one video card, not a dual vid configuration. That doesn't mean it can't, I've just not seen it on the systems we use.

I'm liking the RAID 0 scratch drive idea also.
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April 8, 2011 11:46:23 PM

I would suggest this Corsair 850w power supply. It's comparable to the XFX unit that's sold out. While Antec makes quality PSUs, that Corsair is less expensive and more efficient.

As soon as i saw that you had two 1TB WDs, the first thought that came to my mind was a RAID 0 scratch drive.

~120GB SSD is the way to go. It's the sweet spot as far as size and price are concerned. What's a Win 7 install? Something like 12GB? I don't quite remember. On top of that add your 16GB of RAM for a total 28GB. Then add all your editing applications. How much space does CS5 Master Collection take up? 8+GB (just in my 'Programs Files' and 'Program Files(x86)' folders. Starting to get the picture? It's also important that you have a couple GB free.

An alternative to the GTX 580 is the GTX 570. It's comparable to the HD 6970 performance-wise while being $10-20 more expensive. You would also have the CUDA processing capabilities. I am an AMD fan, but I believe either of those nVIDIA cards would do you better.

The i5-2500k is a powerful chip, but I think the extra $100 for the i7-2600k would be money well spent. Editing programs are very CPU intensive and you would benefit from the Hyper-Threading capabilities of the 2600k.
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April 9, 2011 3:18:08 AM

If you have money to through around, do a RAID 0 scratch with SSD and watch your socks fly off.
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April 9, 2011 1:30:16 PM

nd_hunter said:
I would suddest this Corsair 850w power supply. It's comparable to the XFX unit that's sold out. While Antec makes quality PSUs, that Corsair is less expensive and more efficient.

As soon as i saw that you had two 1TB WDs, the first thought that came to my mind was a RAID 0 scratch drive.

~120GB SSD is the way to go. It's the sweet spot as far as size and price are concerned. What's a Win 7 install? Something like 12GB? I don't quite remember. On top of that add your 16GB of RAM for a total 28GB. Then add all your editing applications. How much space does CS5 Master Collection take up? 8+GB (just in my 'Programs Files' and 'Program Files(x86)' folders. Starting to get the picture? It's also important that you have a couple GB free.

An alternative to the GTX 580 is the GTX 570. It's comparable to the HD 6970 performance-wise while being $10-20 more expensive. You would also have the CUDA processing capabilities. I am an AMD fan, but I believe either of those nVIDIA cards would do you better.

The i5-2500k is a powerful chip, but I think the extra $100 for the i7-2600k would be money well spent. Editing programs are very CPU intensive and you would benefit from the Hyper-Threading capabilities of the 2600k.


That Corsair power supply is nice. I most certainly go with that one.

I see your point on the 120GB SSD. With Win 7, the RAM and CS5, it's going to swallow up any primary drive that isn't big enough. I suppose the 40 would be okay with a less intensive memory hog, or CS5 outta the picture. You've convinced me.

I'm an AMD fan myself (last two systems of mine were AMDs). Well, might as well go for broke. GTX 580.

You've convinced me on the chip as well. i7 it is!
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April 9, 2011 3:00:51 PM

jgr_bgpc said:
If you have money to through around, do a RAID 0 scratch with SSD and watch your socks fly off.

I've got play money, don't know if I got that much. Hehehehehehe. The idea is tempting though.
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April 9, 2011 3:35:46 PM

bubbasmith1 said:
I've got play money, don't know if I got that much. Hehehehehehe. The idea is tempting though.


I've read on a different thread that SSDs in RAID 0 as a scratch drive don't really have a benefit over mechanical drives. Sounds odd to me, but I also know you don't want to do a lot of writes/deletes on an SSD. It degrades the drive and reduces its lifespan. Just repeating what I read. I have no experience with scratch drives.
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April 9, 2011 3:41:33 PM

bubbasmith1 said:
I suppose the 40 would be okay with a less intensive memory hog, or CS5 outta the picture. You've convinced me.


I think about a 40GB or so would be ideal for a non-gaming HTPC. Win 7, 4GB RAM, i3-2100, HD 5670, 40GB SSD, 2TB Samsung F4, ASUS H67. Actually, you could do some light gaming on that, lol. Might suggest that for my sis for a school rig when she starts back.
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April 9, 2011 4:49:00 PM

nd_hunter said:
I've read on a different thread that SSDs in RAID 0 as a scratch drive don't really have a benefit over mechanical drives. Sounds odd to me, but I also know you don't want to do a lot of writes/deletes on an SSD. It degrades the drive and reduces its lifespan. Just repeating what I read. I have no experience with scratch drives.


That is also what I have read. And as I understand (unless new firmware has been released from Intel), SSD's in RAID arrays aren't capable of using TRIM. If you had two mechanical drives in RAID and then a SSD not in the array, then it'd be able to utilize TRIM support.
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April 9, 2011 4:56:10 PM

Bacillus said:
That is also what I have read. And as I understand (unless new firmware has been released from Intel), SSD's in RAID arrays aren't capable of using TRIM. If you had two mechanical drives in RAID and then a SSD not in the array, then it'd be able to utilize TRIM support.


You are correct about SSDs in RAID and TRIM support. However, there are 3rd party software solutions to garbage control for people who do RAID SSDs.

What I believe the OP is going to do here is have that Intel 510 as a boot drive for his OS and programs. Then he will have 2 Samsung F3s in RAID 0 as a 2TB media/data drive. Also his reused WD Blacks will be in a RAID 0 array as a 2TB scratch drive, used for his editing.

This is going to be an absolute beast of a machine. I'm jealous.
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April 9, 2011 4:57:22 PM

lol remember what you could get like 5 years ago for $2,000?
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April 9, 2011 5:02:09 PM

nd_hunter said:
You are correct about SSDs in RAID and TRIM support. However, there are 3rd party software solutions to garbage control for people who do RAID SSDs.

What I believe the OP is going to do here is have that Intel 510 as a boot drive for his OS and programs. Then he will have 2 Samsung F3s in RAID 0 as a 2TB media/data drive. Also his reused WD Blacks will be in a RAID 0 array as a 2TB scratch drive, used for his editing.

This is going to be an absolute beast of a machine. I'm jealous.


I'm throwing together a new build right now and have been planning to use that same drives and setup lol..not sure about the SSD still though. But yes, he is going to have an incredible computer...with plenty of drive space!
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April 9, 2011 5:43:03 PM

If you do decide to get a GTX 580, then get the Galaxy model. It has an awesome triple fan cooler. (Takes up three slots, just warning you)
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April 9, 2011 7:01:54 PM

fb39ca4 said:
If you do decide to get a GTX 580, then get the Galaxy model. It has an awesome triple fan cooler. (Takes up three slots, just warning you)


The MSI I recommended has a double-fan cooler, takes up two slots, and is factory overclocked. MSI's Afterburner utility is second to none and the Twin Frozr II design has a very good reputation, as does MSI when it comes to graphics cards. I am very happy with my reference R6950 from them. According to Newegg reviewers, there are some craftsmanship issues with that Galaxy card and apparently their support is nonexistant.
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April 9, 2011 7:54:09 PM

nd_hunter said:
I've read on a different thread that SSDs in RAID 0 as a scratch drive don't really have a benefit over mechanical drives. Sounds odd to me, but I also know you don't want to do a lot of writes/deletes on an SSD. It degrades the drive and reduces its lifespan. Just repeating what I read. I have no experience with scratch drives.


I had read that SSDs work best as primary disks for operating systems for that reason. They were not intended to be used for repetitive write/erase process. I think two mechanicals would be best for a RAID 0 configuration.
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April 9, 2011 8:27:07 PM

nd_hunter said:
I think about a 40GB or so would be ideal for a non-gaming HTPC. Win 7, 4GB RAM, i3-2100, HD 5670, 40GB SSD, 2TB Samsung F4, ASUS H67. Actually, you could do some light gaming on that, lol. Might suggest that for my sis for a school rig when she starts back.


Funny, this rig also sounds like it could pack a nice punch under the right applications. I mean, for just an audio editing or light Photoshop use. Of course, Illustrator sucks memory like crazzzyyyy.
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April 9, 2011 8:46:12 PM

nd_hunter said:


What I believe the OP is going to do here is have that Intel 510 as a boot drive for his OS and programs. Then he will have 2 Samsung F3s in RAID 0 as a 2TB media/data drive. Also his reused WD Blacks will be in a RAID 0 array as a 2TB scratch drive, used for his editing.

This is going to be an absolute beast of a machine. I'm jealous.


Bin-go! With this configuration, storage and and the scratch disks are going to rock. And the WD Caviars are practically new.

If it's a beast, it's because you guys helped design it. No way I would have figured this out on my own. So thank you.
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April 9, 2011 9:03:53 PM

Bacillus said:
I'm throwing together a new build right now and have been planning to use that same drives and setup lol..not sure about the SSD still though. But yes, he is going to have an incredible computer...with plenty of drive space!


Hehehehe. Inspiring, ain't it. Hehehehe. Did I fail to mention the two WD Greens 500 GB I've got waiting for new home, too? Wait..two...two...two...one...damn, does the box have a slot for 6 mechanical drives and one SSD?! Damn, checked. Short one. Oh, well, a Green is out. No big loss.
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April 9, 2011 10:45:19 PM

bubbasmith1 said:
Hehehehe. Inspiring, ain't it. Hehehehe. Did I fail to mention the two WD Greens 500 GB I've got waiting for new home, too? Wait..two...two...two...one...damn, does the box have a slot for 6 mechanical drives and one SSD?! Damn, checked. Short one. Oh, well, a Green is out. No big loss.


Use your Green's for the scratch. I've read that RPM and size are not important factors. Use these brackets to mount them in the lower two optical bay slots. Maybe turn your four 1TB drives into a nice 3TB RAID 5 array. Or, you could do a 2TB RAID 10 setup. It seems like a shame to have disks lying around not being used, especially when they can help protect your data.

BTW, what are you doing now for backup? NAS? Single external drive? Flash drive?
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April 9, 2011 10:56:03 PM

nd_hunter said:
Use your Green's for the scratch. I've read that RPM and size are not important factors. Use these brackets to mount them in the lower two optical bay slots. Maybe turn your four 1TB drives into a nice 3TB RAID 5 array. Or, you could do a 2TB RAID 10 setup. It seems like a shame to have disks lying around not being used, especially when they can help protect your data.

BTW, what are you doing now for backup? NAS? Single external drive? Flash drive?


Really? That being the case, I'd rather wreck the Greens since they aren't as resistant as the Blacks. Okay, a Raid 5 array? Let me read that, get a bit of edumacation.

Back up? One terabyte notebook back up and a WD 880 gb external hard drive. I plan to create a folder where I drop all my important files and let the note book back that up, instead of the entire system. The WD 880 also has an automatic back up program I can run for the same purpose.
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April 9, 2011 11:01:52 PM

Now I better understand why the RAID 0 with two TB disks would be so quick. Half the retrieval and write times.

So if I understood it right, a RAID 5 would allows for a 3TB volume with 1 TB for the parity, allowing for simultaneous readings as long as different stripes are being called, allowing for a pretty good back up of data in the parity volume, and an excellent transfer of information (if you don't mind a cumulative latency from the 4 disks). I am assuming that that's the main point.
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April 9, 2011 11:24:20 PM

Hmm, I like where this RAID discussion is going. IS this the case also with NAS nd_hunter??? I'm doing a new build based on a similar Rig to Bubba, would really apreciate a reply from you. Also your advice on setting up a NAS for Media Sharing at home, currently have 3 PC's a Laptop, Media Stream Device and XBOX. I was thinking of using FreeNAS and another server with IPCop on it to manage the network.

Would I need to have a RAID Array set up on the NAS do you think?

Thanks,

John

p.s. Sounds like you have an AWESOME System there Bubba, almost identical to what I want, although we have slightly different needs. Have you researched the RAID 5 / 10 what are your thoughts?
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April 10, 2011 1:21:06 PM

jckpalmer said:
Hmm, I like where this RAID discussion is going. IS this the case also with NAS nd_hunter??? I'm doing a new build based on a similar Rig to Bubba, would really apreciate a reply from you. Also your advice on setting up a NAS for Media Sharing at home, currently have 3 PC's a Laptop, Media Stream Device and XBOX. I was thinking of using FreeNAS and another server with IPCop on it to manage the network.

Would I need to have a RAID Array set up on the NAS do you think?

Thanks,

John

p.s. Sounds like you have an AWESOME System there Bubba, almost identical to what I want, although we have slightly different needs. Have you researched the RAID 5 / 10 what are your thoughts?


Hey there jckplamer! It sounds like you need a powerful system to manage the growing computer/hardware farm you have going there. Hehehehe. I've looked lightly into the RAID 5 set up. nd hunter provided a wonderful link up above to the RAID Array and Raid 5. Reading it, seems that a RAID 5 is a good idea as long as you have the minimum 4 hard disks to properly set it up. Of course, you'll need to make sure the hard drives are the same size to take advantage of all of them. You sacrifice one hard drive but get what seems to be a very good back up system that is reliable with information spread out evenly over the other three hard drives. Good access time for read/write, and the parity disk, the fourth one, can help detect and repair errors or recover data. If I read that right. I'm no tech but I believe that is the jest of it. I'm looking into RAID 10 right now, but I am convinced RAID 5 is the way to go. Of course, just because the system has it's own back up built into it, I'm not getting rid of my own back up system. I recommend the same for you. Especially if you have that many systems running at your place. I get the feeling you are going to need a massive work horse to manage everything for you.
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April 10, 2011 2:03:03 PM

jckpalmer said:

p.s. Sounds like you have an AWESOME System there Bubba, almost identical to what I want, although we have slightly different needs. Have you researched the RAID 5 / 10 what are your thoughts?


I just read RAID 10, and it seems to be a very efficient system that mirrors and writes striped arrays. Allows for multiple disk failures to occur simultaneously, and still allows for full data recovery thanks to the mirroring. The read/write speeds are supposed to be very high. For an extensive network that manages streaming media and data, this seems to be a good choice. But it does have its drawbacks. The money to maintain properly over an extended amount of time, and, the big one for a home user, which is the need to have double the needed disk space. Takes six drives just to have 3 drives to use in a RAID 10. To me, seems like a lot of lost space since I plan to back up my information through a secondary back up system. Now, for someone who is going to be making what looks to be a large in-home network, with different types of media, streaming info and apparently shared storage/data over numerous systems, perhaps a RAID 10 is the way to go for you. I would think a central network, with shared data on RAID 10 and a secondary back up would be the way to approach this. I personally wouldn't go with RAID 10 because I will have only one system, and I want to take advantage of most of the drives for scratch/data storage.

Then again, like I said, I'm no tech and if anyone with knowledge on the matter would chime in it would be greatly appreciated! nd hunter, internetlad, screwysqrl, bacillius, anyone?
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April 10, 2011 11:37:40 PM

Everything but the case has been purchased. I was able to get everything at forty less than before because of a deal that opened up. Will purchase the case at Fry's, both are on discount.
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April 11, 2011 12:32:49 AM

bubbasmith1 said:
Would I be overdoing it if I spend a bit more for this case in the HAF family?

COOLER MASTER HAF 932 Advanced RC-932-KKN5-GP Black Steel ATX Full Tower Compucase Case with USB 3.0 and Black Interior

I know it's not as quiet as the other case, but I do like the USB 3.0 and 2.0 set up, plus microphone input on the front. I'm just asking because if the other case is significantly better for my build, I'll go with the other then.


You definitely wouldn't be overdoing it with a 932. It is a full tower, but the 922 is actually only slightly smaller. They're nearly the same case, but the 932 comes with a better I/O panel, larger (230mm) fans and an extra optical bay. You're definitely going to appreciate the cable management capabilities of either.

HAF 922: 22.20" x 10.00" x 19.70"
HAF 932: 22.70" x 9.00" x 21.50"

Difference between 932 and the 922: .5" x -1" 1.8" so there really is hardly any difference in size.
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April 11, 2011 2:37:03 AM

On the RAID discussion - RAID 5 is not a backup, its redundancy in case a drive fails, RAID 1 and RAID 10 both fall into the same category. Reason being, these arrays don't provide tolerance to user error, OS corruption, and malicious software. Your backup solution is really the only way to ensure data integrity.

RAID 0 can be setup on more than two disks, you can have a 4 disk RAID 0 array, a 4tb drive, and 4 times the read/write speeds. You are also 4 times riskier at having every last bit of data unrecoverable after just one drive failure. That's where RAID 5 comes in, you get multiple times the read / write speeds, but with the ability to recover data after a single drive failure. The downside is that it takes CPU time to calculate the parity, and that has to happen realtime. These are all things to take into consideration when setting up an array. Also realize that you can't take the disks out of one machine and put them into another down the road and expect the array to work.

Hope this sheds some light. More info on raid is easily available on wikipedia and other sites.
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April 11, 2011 5:51:16 AM

As far as the RAID arrays go, it depends on how important your data is, as somebody else said, it provides insurance only against disk failure, not against user error. if you accidentally delete an important file, or get a virus, RAIDs can be a far bigger pain to get data off of, especially a striped array (0,5) because you can't just yank the drive and pull your data off. From what I know if it's a mirrored drive with no parity (1) you can just pull the drive and put that in an external enclosure to get data off. Another thing is if there's a flood/fire/natural disaster and your computer is destroyed, then you're still out in the cold, even if you're using a RAID 5 and more than one drive fails.

RAID arrays are nice but they're a heck of a lot more work, and if you're looking at it as a way to prevent data loss, it's not a sure thing.

With that being said with hard drives being as cheap as they are if you don't mind the extra work and possible annoyances during recovery if other hardware fails (if your mobo goes you either have to set up the array on another computer or get a fairly expensive external hard drive raid enclosure, can be around $150.) I hadn't heard that RAID 5 uses CPU but it definetly makes sense and turns out to be true, If you're backing up anyways you might want to just RAID 0 it and if something goes then pull from your backup and re-install, but if you hit a snag there are certainly scenarios that are going to be a big issue either way.
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