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July 10, 2011 4:25:03 PM

Hi guys.

I was looking for a little advice please. I brought the Packard Bell iextreme M5722 around 18 months ago.

I have recently started using Microsoft Flight Simulator 2004. However I was wondering what I can do to upgrade so I have smoother play and more FPS. I am hoping to spend no more than about £300-£400, What can I do to get the best possible experience?

Here are my system specs;

Packard Bell ixtreme M5722
Intel Core2 Quad CPU Q8300 @2.50GHz 2.50GHz
Ram:6.00GB
64-Bit OS
Windows 7 Home Premium
Graphics Card: Nvidia GeForce GT220 1GB DDR2, Direct X 11



Also, the upgrades I need how do I make sure they will go into my machine?? Cheers

Here are some pictures :











More about : needed

July 10, 2011 4:57:52 PM

I think a new graphics card would be an option. Though, with that amount of money, one might think about a new PC already.

That matter was discussed here already:

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/319987-15-worth-sys...

If you are going for a new graphics card, which should do the job, you just need to find out what kind of interface for graphics cards your motherboard has. It should be PCIe 16 for modern graphics cards. Then I would buy something like the nVidia GeForce GT 440 or GTX 460. It wouldn't be too expensive, while increasing the speed of your machine notably, at least when it comes to a simulation from 2004.
July 10, 2011 5:05:04 PM

Hi Trotzdem thank you for your reply

Obviously the less i have to spend the better, but are you saying with the GeForce GT440/ GTX 460 It would run the simulator easily with better FPS?? What about more RAM?? and cooling fan maybe??

As you can tell i am not good with comupters..

Cheers, adam.
Related resources
July 10, 2011 5:29:37 PM



This is where my graphics card goes does this help??
July 10, 2011 6:43:45 PM

The red one looks like PCIe 16 alright. You can confirm that by measuring its length. It should be 89 mm or about 3 and a half inches.

An additional cooling fan will at best produce more noise, but add nothing to the machines speed. If you combined that with overclocking your cpu or graphics card, it could do some speed increasing, but I don't recommend such things.

Your memory seems absolutely sufficient to me. Many new systems are still delivered with "just" 4 GB, and I wouldn't expect a game from 2004 to demand more than that.

The part that most likely will give your machine the speed it needs is the graphics card. Take a look at the links below, they describe the features of the graphics card you own and the graphics card I recommend:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GeForce_200_Series

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GeForce_400_Series

Compare the values and decide if you want to invest in the cheaper GT440 or in the somewhat more expensive, but also very powerfull GTX460. If it's within your budget, I'd go for the GTX 460.

You also could consider an ATI - card, but I am a real nVidia - fan, so someone else should say something about that if you are interested. I don't know much about ATI - cards beyond the fact that I rather want to own an nVidia product.

July 10, 2011 7:02:09 PM

Thanks Trotz,

Just wondering though, some of the graphics cards ive looked at have like double backs (you will see what i mean with the pic below,)

And this is the back of mine, would it fit???

a b ) Power supply
July 10, 2011 9:06:20 PM

1st| welcome to the forums newcomer

2nd| If all you playing is Flight sim 2004 thenthe gt440 is more than enough. However if your thinking of playing Hawx and Hawx 2 then you'd need some more muscle like a GTX 460 - hang on why are we looking at older tech? you can pick up a GTX550 or a GTX 560Ti for good prices and they comsume less power run more efficient and deliver more umph.

You can also look at an AMD 6670.

here are some similarities.
amd 5770=GTX 550Ti
amd 6870=GTX 560Ti
amd 6670=8800GT
so a GT440=amd 5550

surely for that price now you can get better and newer tech.
look at this for more info.

With this out of the way, that delta aint that good and 250W's aint going to cut it with new GPU's. We don't want you pointing a finger at us for choosing a hungry GPU that'd cause your PSU to blowup frying everything in the case.

But apart from that - a modular 550W psu should do you fine for some time come. Thumb rule with builds is that the PSU and case remain constant while all the other stuff can change when the user wills.

some recommendations- look up overclocker.co.uk and aria.co.uk or even amazon.co.uk

check out xfx's 550W PSU (they aren't modular but if your interested - somethign like this will be good for power and since its modular - better airflow in that tight case. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168... or http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

what you mean by double backs is actually referred to as dual slot.

about fitting the cards - even if you choose an Asus GTX580 DirectCUII - if we take your wi-fi card down another slot then you can accommodate the 3 slot GPU :) 

3rd| run CPU-z and check whether the PCI-e slot is v1.1 or 2.0. I've learn't that v1.0 is glitchy with PCI-e 2.0 hardware but 1.1 runs its without skipping a beat.

download here - http://www.cpuid.com/
e.g;run the program and look at the mainboard tab and

Edit; i just ran a search again to refresh my memory - its PCI-e 2.0 so your fine with whatever GPU you get provided you have the PSU to keep t happy :) 

4th| You're running a Q8300 - thas a lot of power to JUST run flight sim 2004 :) 
You stated a budget of 300-400 quid. Thus the reason for recommending higher GPU's :D 

5th| a case fan to exhaust the CPU and innards heat

6th i just looked at the first post again - how come you have 6GB of ram? i can see its a dual channel mem board (like duh) so you have 3 dimm slots populated? thas a serious no no!

u should run all 4 slots in dual channel or only 2 slots. not 3 but you can run ram off one slot.
nee to get myself a glass of water :D 
thas my 2 cents
July 11, 2011 3:36:17 PM

Hello Lutfij

Thanks for your brilliant reply.

Firstly, I have been looking at the Nvida GTX560Ti. Looks very good. However on the Nvida page http://www.nvidia.co.uk/object/buynow_uk.html?pid=GFGTX... , there are many to choose from, how do i know which one to go for? As i need one with this (The far right blue connector for my screen).

And regarding the PSU, I see it is 550w, But the question is do i need to buy one that will fit exactly into my machine? And are they pretty simple to do myself?

With regards to the RAM, I am using all 4 slots, starting from the left it goes

1GB| 1GB| 2GB | 2GB = 6GB :) 
a b ) Power supply
July 12, 2011 9:49:23 AM

:)  good to hear from you - thought all that star trek language drove you insane :D 

ok
1| You're running a monitor that has a d-sub port. You can actually run a really high end GPU and connect it to a crt if you have a dongle - you'll need a "dvi to 15pin d-sub" adaptor/convertor

http://www.google.com/search?q=dvi+-+d-sub+adaptor&hl=e...

2|If your case is what i think it is - its a mini tower m-atx case that will accept ANY atx PSU. so you can buy any PSU (note it should be modular cos of the tight space in your case and cos of improving airflow).

550W?!?!! your case psu label states that its output is 250W...i know i have my reading glasses on :o !

I'll stick to suggesting the 80plus Gold 560W PSU from Seasonic. Can't go wrong with them and I have read good reviews from forum members over at overclockers.co.uk. Silent and the fan kicks in when you put it under load - can't hear the fan spin up either unless you live in a solar heated oven...:p  So efficient, silent and reliable - in one package. Another thing to note is if you plan on upgrading round-the-corner then getting a 650W would be good for future builds or sli'ing another card of your choice.

3|can you tell us what colors the ram slots are? and which modules are on which color? cos we also need to know that your rams are running in dual channel. Though you could only run 4GB and sell the 2GB for dirt ;)  cos improper timings are also a big culprit in an unstable machine. This instability is noticed when you start to push the system to its limits by introducing higher GPU, more tasks allocation to the machine and sometimes running intense gaming sessions.

Well the manuals that come with the PSU show you how to install the PSU. But you can pop over here and look on Tom's;how-to-build-a-pc thread

:)  hope that answered all your questions...? oi, what about the exhaust fan for your case?

P.S; want some cablemanagement tips ? take a look here

Edit; It just occurred to me!!! You live in the uk...get a Gainward GTX 560Ti Phantom. :D  can't go wrong with it!!!! trust me - i'm eyeing on a GTX 580 phantom. inshiallah :) 

http://www.scan.co.uk/products/1gb-gainward-gtx-560ti-p...

btw, thas the cheapest i could find. ^ is OC'ing capable and even if not oc'ed its silent as a cat farting in the night :p  OH and i almost forgot - you don't need an adapter cos the card has the necessary legacy connectors.



i suppose this locks the deal ... ? :)  :D  :p  ;) 
July 12, 2011 7:26:34 PM

Hi Lutfij.

Firstly, the Gainward, is this the correct one i need? http://www.scan.co.uk/products/1gb-gainward-gtx-560ti-p...

as for the PSU I cant find where i would buy the gold 80plus 560w in the uk?? or is that just me not looking hard enough.. lol.. if i could find it, would this definatly fit in my case do you think??

Right now ram, the furthest Right is a 2gb and thats on a red slot, the one next left is anothe 2gb on a purple slot, the one next left is a 1gb and thats on a red slot, the next is a 1gb and thats on a purple :) 

As for the exhaust, which one is this (im clueless can you tell :p ) is that the big open black one in the middle??? What do i need to do with this???

thanks for your help much appreciated :) 
a b ) Power supply
July 12, 2011 7:44:28 PM

yeap that is the card i linked you to :)  you just re-linked it to me again :D 

here;
http://www.scan.co.uk/products/650w-nzxt-hale90-silent-...

or

http://www.scan.co.uk/products/560w-seasonic-x-560-modu...

the best thiong you can do is take a tape measure and measure (like duh) the dimension between the width of the psu and then compare it with the PSU's i linked.

But like i said - i did a google search - you should try it - shows you a whole new world of brain food :D  and i found your current PSU to be an atx PSU

about the exhaust - that first pic you have showing the back of the case. you can see screw mounting holes that can accommodate a fan of a certain dimension. 90~120mm take a tape measure and measure the diagonal from one screw point to the other.

About the ram slots - does it mention in your manual about running the rams into coressponding colors - e.g; red's have the 2GB dimms and the purples have the 1GB dimms?
July 12, 2011 8:02:32 PM

Ahhh sorry about that i realised as i posted but cant edit it Hehe!!

Right here goes, heres a pic of my current PSU. its a delta electronics 250w :) 



The exhause is a 110mm fan



a b ) Power supply
July 12, 2011 8:07:49 PM

bro i can tell WITHOUTADOUBT its an ATX PSU - so the ones i linked to you are good to go into your case!

look just a lil below your psu - you'll notice that theres space for a fan - once you know the size of the fan mounts - get a fan an get it to exhaust all the heat out of the case.

ok got the exhaust dimensions- i think you mean't to say 120mm :) 

i think the psu's will fit but you'll have a lil less wire to wiggle between the optical drive.
July 12, 2011 8:12:51 PM



That the exhaust on the right its a 110mm fan :) 

is this the one your on about??
a b ) Power supply
July 12, 2011 8:16:54 PM

the big duct - you have me staring down is actually an intake - the processor fan sucks in air blows it onto the cooling fins and the hot air is left swirling in your case - exhausted by the tiny lil PSU fan.

To the left is the exhaust fan UNDER the PSU <------ not here ---->
July 12, 2011 8:20:10 PM

ahh so your saying i dont have an exhaust fan only the psu? and the big black one is an intake?

So those psu you shown me will fit ? because it looks good, and how do i know it has the same connections?

#cheers
a b ) Power supply
July 12, 2011 8:26:13 PM

lol - you a have an exhaust fan on the PSU but not for your case :p  - i'm in need of more coke cos of you.... LOL no offense! :D 

google search the psu makers and then look for their specs :)  usually people who come on Tom's are hit and run drivers - so before you hit and run - learn your victim's movements and take em down - ok that seemed cynical

the black duct connected to the fan is an intake duct. The current psu already has a fan but is so small - it can only cool a shred of tissue paper. the nzxt is my first choice - it'd look kewl in your case along with that phantom :) 
a b ) Power supply
July 12, 2011 8:31:58 PM

yeah now your making sense to me :!

so you can buy a 90mm case fan that should be placed in the rear. Exhaust all the heat thrown by the phantom and the CPU.
You might not make any money off of the old psu - so you could kick it around until the UEFA champions league gets under way :D 
a b ) Power supply
July 12, 2011 9:00:35 PM

nope bro - it aint the phantom... how come your linking me to ginger 6 while i'm linking you to scan.co.uk?

that antec is total rubbish bro - it aint a reliable part.
July 12, 2011 9:04:20 PM

Fair enough, The phantom it is then :) , only thing with psu, it dont give dimensions on the nzxt... :??: 

Lutfij said:
nope bro - it aint the phantom... how come your linking me to ginger 6 while i'm linking you to scan.co.uk?

that antec is total rubbish bro - it aint a reliable part.

a b ) Power supply
July 12, 2011 9:06:21 PM

after all this blah blah black sheep :S your still wondering about dimensions? you didn't even do a google search bro...

take my word - get the NZXT white PSU i linked on scan.co.uk but for 2 quids more you get the black seasonic PSU on scan.co.uk
July 12, 2011 9:08:15 PM

Right .. Cool..Done deal.

Only other ques if its stupid, the PSU, on that white one for e.g there is a fan at the top , does this go the other way around in the PC so its pointing down or pointing up???
a b ) Power supply
July 12, 2011 9:11:33 PM

Most PSU's adhere to the standard atx dimensions. Quality psus such as seasonics, corsair, antec's usually are the same width but its the length (how deep it is) that varies.

*edit dang quick response *
PSU fan should be facing the inside of the case or else youll choke the airflow into the psu
a b ) Power supply
July 12, 2011 9:11:43 PM

for your case it'll be pointing down - the fan. The PSU should come with a manual. Go through it. If the fan were to point upward it'd have a hard time to get rid of its own heat cos of lack of air/ventialation.

Have the units fan pointing down besides the psu screw mounts won't fit if you wer to point the psu upside down. :) 

hope this clears things without me being rude.

the 2 i recommend are my personal choices - would've picked one up myself if i had the cash. But will get it later in the future.
July 12, 2011 9:13:29 PM

right i'll go for them then and let you know when they arrive :)  this is giong to be fun i think :p 

Thanks again for your help and i can understand being rude, i would be rude with me lol!!


Cheers
a b ) Power supply
July 12, 2011 9:17:39 PM

no bro, i've been trying to deal with a BLUE SCREEN OF DEATH with two builds (similar in nature and components) and i think its the graphics driver by intel...still trying to find a work around.

Don't talk to people trying to solve a pc problem - it just drives you nuts cos they don't understand what they're trying to say. :D  :lol: 


Post back here with pics of the cable management and the card running in your rig.

add this fan to your list;
http://www.scan.co.uk/products/80mm-sharkoon-2000-golf-...(a)-case-fan-227-cfm

total cart price is 314 quid - well within your budget!

edit; just came across this review ; http://www.3dgameman.com/reviews/1175/nzxt-hale-90-650w... the NZXT 650w is about 150mm wide and 182mm long - can you accommodate it in your case?
July 14, 2011 9:49:29 AM

''edit; just came across this review ; http://www.3dgameman.com/reviews/1 [...] wer-supply the NZXT 650w is about 150mm wide and 182mm long - can you accommodate it in your case?''


I hope so, It's coming today! If it doesent hopefully i can get a refund!!

July 14, 2011 11:23:37 AM

Right. Its arrived.

The PSU does fit (with a little help) , I've managed to connect the SATA connectors, and the main long pin one, however the NZXT comes with a 22pin. and my computer has a slot for a 24 pin, however the nxzt comes with a seperate 4 pin attatched to the main pin. can i just connect them all in the 24 pin??

heres a pic, sorry its blurred.



And also, the CPU1 Connector has 2 seperate 4 pins, however i only have a 4 pin in the computer, which one shall i put in??



Cheers.
a b ) Power supply
July 14, 2011 2:40:50 PM

for the first question - yeah that extra 4 pin beside the 20 pin is only included for some people who own old rigs that need only a 20 pin connector to mobo. But make sure the pin is able to go into the socket with out being forced in! otherwise your telling the pin to do something its not meant to do.

2nd question. where is the latch on the white socket located above or below? correction - its to the right.
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/274745-31-step-step-g... scroll down to the 8pin/4pin cpu connector
Didn't you get a manual for the NZXT hale90?

Okay I'll give you the answer - its the CP plug, leave the U1 plug alone.

Whats news with the gainward phantom GPU?

Have your ram in the following order.
1GB | 2GB | 1GB | 2GB

Lastly take a shot of the whole rig with everything installed - ofcourse I'd like a high res pic cos I can save it for showing it to people who'd need help with things like this :) 

July 15, 2011 12:25:31 PM

Hi Lutfij,

Thanks for the reply,

Firstly The 20+4 pin, is fine, like you say.

2nd, the NZXT did come with a manual but i must say its C**P!! Doesent go into any detail at all.

The GPU is amazing, After i finished yesterday i had a quick go on flight simulator, Doesent drop below 50fps on FULL graphics, i.e traffic, high res weather etc.. Fantastic, btw before i was in the 20's.

With the RAM, Just curious, my pc already came like it is now, so what difference does it make to change them around??

I'll take a picture tomorrow as ive been on nights and am a tad tired, thanks again :) 
a b ) Power supply
July 15, 2011 12:35:58 PM

Your welcome bro - just remember to select the best answer :) 

if your machine came with the rams installed like so - then leave them. as I for one, found that rams can be the biggest of nightmares.

BRO - wait till you try HAWX and HAWX 2!!!! you'll be thrown into the 1800's :lol: 

Remember to take a pic of the whole system - with case panel open and the cabling inside your case - also a rear shot of the entire back of the PC case. In High res :)  thanks for that!

oh, what monitor you running btw and on what resolution?!?!
January 31, 2012 8:23:49 PM

hi adamuk :) 

i have exactly the same pc as you and i am upgrading my psu tomorrow to a coolmaster elite power 500 RS500-PSARJ3-UK
http://www.coolermaster.co.uk/product.php?category_id=3...

i was wondering about the case power switch on the front of the pc how did you connect it ? my original psu like your old one it seems to be connected inside the psu a thick white cable ? any help would be great thanks, brian.
February 1, 2012 8:21:20 AM

i have managed to install the psu without a hitch the cable i was worried about was the cable for 2 usb plugs on the case above where the psu sits nothing to do with the psu or power button. i must say on start up and running the new psu i have noticed increased performance of graphics card and fan controller i have to control my fans. its a shame when they built this model they did not put much thought into the cooling aspect of the case( i modified mine a few months of buying it) for the price it cost just to throw in a extractor fan would not have broke the bank! i fitted a front drive bay cooler with 3 fans to draw fresh air into the unit there is plenty of room for this modification and it keeps the air moving in the case very well. also i use hard drive coolers to cool the drives helps keep the hard drive temps down by a few degrees.
a b ) Power supply
February 1, 2012 11:04:22 AM

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