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New ship ord problem again Tim

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Anonymous
September 21, 2005 10:23:22 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Tim after just losing three Cat Paws to a very small number of fighters
last turn (due to the fact the Paws had no defence against them when
freshly built) I am just wondering could you please just do a very
quick change and revert the last host change for this matter please.

The vast majority of posts about it have been in the negative so
please, if you have the time, revert the change in relation to no Ord
being loaded on freshly built ships please.

Regards,
Robert

More about : ship ord problem tim

Anonymous
September 21, 2005 10:28:21 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

I have to agree with Soxaa. Bad move taking the ord and repairs from
newly built ships. Also new ships should have "sandcasters fire at
fighters" active when built. Attack settings are set to on so looking
for a sandcaster on new ship and activating that should'nt be too big
of a deal.
Anonymous
September 22, 2005 2:01:50 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

I see your point and also agree with it and I do hope that Tim can find
the time one day to allow us to select repair and ord for a new ship
when it is being built. That said however, surely survival should come
first then a preference on how much ord a ship can take in. Which one
is the lesser of 2 evils?
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Anonymous
September 22, 2005 4:39:00 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

You are correct GT that it would be nice to have extra's in ship build
screen, but I would rather have Tim immediately change the rule back to
last host. It would be simple for him to do rather then event all the
others first.
September 22, 2005 6:39:13 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Yes, absoutely correct.

First back to better rule. Then later rethinking and make a better try
of change.

GFM GToeroe

P.S.: Although it would be a disadvantage for your pilots...
Anonymous
September 22, 2005 9:11:47 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Which is more frustrating? Having a ship not follow orders and fail to load
ord or to lose the ship and the base under it?

To be alive and deal with frustration or to be deceased and beyond caring?

I favor the old way (and would also favor being able to set minelaying even
if no Ord are on the ship at the start provided Ord is loaded during the
turn. If I fail to load the ord and therefore fail to load the mines I can
deal with that.

This having ships be sitting ducks for a full turn may be realistic (they
need a one year shakedown cruise after launch or something) but it sure is
frustrating.






"soxee" <crooksy9@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1127361897.266211.175250@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> I see your point and also agree with it and I do hope that Tim can find
> the time one day to allow us to select repair and ord for a new ship
> when it is being built. That said however, surely survival should come
> first then a preference on how much ord a ship can take in. Which one
> is the lesser of 2 evils?
>
September 22, 2005 9:19:28 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

> This having ships be sitting ducks for a full turn may be realistic (they
> need a one year shakedown cruise after launch or something) but it sure is
> frustrating.

I'm not so sure that it's realistic, to me it's unrealistic :-). I see no
good reason for a brand new ship coming out of the shipyard loaded with crew
to not also be loaded with ord. The batteries are going to be fully charged.
This doesn't affect beam weopens.
Anonymous
September 22, 2005 9:41:58 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

I think that would be ok for the moment. Along with that, what about
only a basic crew (percentage or fixed) on the ship?. I know this would
have influence on the ships' fighting capability, but even if you have
the chance to build a fleet in no time, you would have a disadvantage
in their effectivity, so you have an advantage, if you plan ahead and
do not only react.

Jochen
Anonymous
September 22, 2005 12:27:11 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Eric schrieb:
>>This having ships be sitting ducks for a full turn may be realistic (they
>>need a one year shakedown cruise after launch or something) but it sure is
>>frustrating.
>
>
> I'm not so sure that it's realistic, to me it's unrealistic :-). I see no
> good reason for a brand new ship coming out of the shipyard loaded with crew
> to not also be loaded with ord. The batteries are going to be fully charged.
> This doesn't affect beam weopens.
>
>

Well, of course this is your point of view. But as so many things here
more or less unrealistic what do you think about let it more a question
of the game fun.

Under the current situation more player are crying than laughing about it.

So, Tim would make a lot of poeple happy if he would change the ord load
for new ships back to like it was in host193.

He may think about

- CCs for the ship building base to control the initial ord load
- a addition of a few buttons in head quarter to control the initial
ord and repair load
- just putting a half or a quarter of the ord and repair capacity onto
the ships.
- Also I would say welcome to active SCs against wings for new built ships

But it's just annoying:

A)

1st turn build a CP
2nd turn load ORD
3rd turn lay MF
4th turn MF has first effects on the game.

B)

Having ships destroyed only because they appear without ORD when they
are built

GFM GToeroe
Anonymous
September 22, 2005 12:39:00 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Eric wrote:
>>This having ships be sitting ducks for a full turn may be realistic (they
>>need a one year shakedown cruise after launch or something) but it sure is
>>frustrating.
>
>
> I'm not so sure that it's realistic, to me it's unrealistic :-). I see no
> good reason for a brand new ship coming out of the shipyard loaded with crew
> to not also be loaded with ord. The batteries are going to be fully charged.
> This doesn't affect beam weopens.
>
>
WW2, Stalingrad, the tractor works, converted to building tanks. The
final assembly and LOADING of the tanks were done by the crew, who drove
out the gates and into the battle. You would think that if Soviets could
manage this in the forties, that a civilization that has developed FTL
travel could allow a ship to be loaded as you wish when built. Hell, I
would like to see pods go up with the ships if that is my wish. Putting
the recent debacle with FEMA most industrial societies could accomplish
distribution with less effort than is required in the game. The
nitpicking detail is what makes this game so hard to attract players to
there is a steep learning curve and a lot of scrut work to just get from
A to B which if it was a tad more abstracted, would increase playability.

OK, I am done and I will take my medicine right away,

al
September 22, 2005 1:29:15 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

The command code idea is a good compromise. Easy for Tim to implement
(I'm guessing), and lets each player do things the way he wants.

Still lousy from a user interface perspective, but a good compromise :) 
Anonymous
September 22, 2005 5:32:03 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

My honest opinion is, best would be to let every Ship load 500 Ordenance as
default.

I think that would be the best solution, because the ship has just been
build, leving the hanger, just some fuel (30) and some Ordenance (500) are
on the ship before it gets its real mission orders ...

splitted

"alevans" <vze6n8p0@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:E4uYe.12961$iv5.10255@trndny03...
> Eric wrote:
>>>This having ships be sitting ducks for a full turn may be realistic (they
>>>need a one year shakedown cruise after launch or something) but it sure
>>>is
>>>frustrating.
>>
>>
>> I'm not so sure that it's realistic, to me it's unrealistic :-). I see no
>> good reason for a brand new ship coming out of the shipyard loaded with
>> crew
>> to not also be loaded with ord. The batteries are going to be fully
>> charged.
>> This doesn't affect beam weopens.
>>
>>
> WW2, Stalingrad, the tractor works, converted to building tanks. The final
> assembly and LOADING of the tanks were done by the crew, who drove out the
> gates and into the battle. You would think that if Soviets could manage
> this in the forties, that a civilization that has developed FTL travel
> could allow a ship to be loaded as you wish when built. Hell, I would like
> to see pods go up with the ships if that is my wish. Putting the recent
> debacle with FEMA most industrial societies could accomplish distribution
> with less effort than is required in the game. The nitpicking detail is
> what makes this game so hard to attract players to there is a steep
> learning curve and a lot of scrut work to just get from A to B which if it
> was a tad more abstracted, would increase playability.
>
> OK, I am done and I will take my medicine right away,
>
> al
Anonymous
September 22, 2005 9:00:46 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

soxee wrote:
> Tim after just losing three Cat Paws to a very small number of fighters
> last turn (due to the fact the Paws had no defence against them when
> freshly built) I am just wondering could you please just do a very
> quick change and revert the last host change for this matter please.
>
> The vast majority of posts about it have been in the negative so
> please, if you have the time, revert the change in relation to no Ord
> being loaded on freshly built ships please.
>
> Regards,
> Robert


I could maybe take a stab in the dark here..

I think HWs (late developed colonies for most races) are rather well
defended (nowadays). Destroying the the base shield is hard enough and
so is GA, etc,etc. To this end being able to store up your metals and
cash, right up until someone shows up at your doorstep, is somewhat
againts all this "take initiative and win", "VGA is for agressively
attacking people" -ideology. And I can't say I disagree with holding on
to those principles. I mean, atleast if you attack someone he should
have the decency to build up a decent resistance -IN TIME-. To me what
this new rule is about is mostly more micromanagement, I really hate to
go through all the transfer, attack, mission, etc screens for every new
ship. On the other hand the minelayerships/races seem over punished by
this rule too.

So two suggestions:

I) In client let a ship lay a minefield even if it doesn't have
sufficient ord on board. (This really is the way it should be in any
case and ALL the people seem to agree on this.)

II) To reduce micromanagement many suggest transfer quantities in the
QB. What if instead of the new ships having the stuff on board allready
it would have the transfer orders set? Meaning you don't have to set
everyship's transfer screen (unless you want to adjust) and the ordered
amounts would be on the ship the turn after ship is build.

As far as I see it this would resolve the conflict here between all of
you. Just that the new ships wouldn't have ord, but come on, could you
really even build a ship under a blokade? I think Host is being
generous with us already. Besides beam weapons don't use ord, so in
most cases you're still able to do some good of the desperate
situation.

Skies
Anonymous
September 22, 2005 10:39:00 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

I totaly agree !

splitted

"Black No1" <keineahnungwas@gmx.de> wrote in message
news:1127392918.788025.182510@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>I think that would be ok for the moment. Along with that, what about
> only a basic crew (percentage or fixed) on the ship?. I know this would
> have influence on the ships' fighting capability, but even if you have
> the chance to build a fleet in no time, you would have a disadvantage
> in their effectivity, so you have an advantage, if you plan ahead and
> do not only react.
>
> Jochen
>
Anonymous
September 23, 2005 8:25:58 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Your're probably right saying first fixes than twists, but as Tim may
change the ord thing again in near future, I merely saw a chance to
have the stuff on new build ships (and from this viewpoint crewmen
aren't very different to ord, fuel or repair units) being handled in a
unified way.
Although I'd like a transfer screen (especially in qb) even more, as
quick fix I would suggest, that - if available - a certain *basic*
amount of crew, ord, fuel and repair units is put on the ships.That's
it.

Jochen
Anonymous
September 23, 2005 8:40:47 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Regarding your words on defense/offense: Totally agreeing.

....
>I) To reduce micromanagement many suggest transfer quantities in the
>QB. What if instead of the new ships having the stuff on board allready
>it would have the transfer orders set? Meaning you don't have to set
>everyship's transfer screen (unless you want to adjust) and the ordered
>amounts would be on the ship the turn after ship is build.

Right.

>II) To reduce micromanagement many suggest transfer quantities in the
>QB. What if instead of the new ships having the stuff on board allready
>it would have the transfer orders set?

Which transfer orders? How much of each type?

> Meaning you don't have to set everyship's transfer screen (unless you want to adjust) and the ordered
> amounts would be on the ship the turn after ship is build

As the ships are built at the beginning of the turn, they would still
transfer that turn?

Jochen
Anonymous
September 23, 2005 8:51:16 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Sparrow with respect, surely one more turn is too long. And also what
if you do have heaps of Ord lying on the base? As an example use my
original posting where three Cat Paws got blown up by fighters because
they had no ord. The base had over 150,000 ord on it.
Anonymous
September 23, 2005 1:02:08 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Black No1 wrote:
> I think that would be ok for the moment. Along with that, what about
> only a basic crew (percentage or fixed) on the ship?. I know this would
> have influence on the ships' fighting capability, but even if you have
> the chance to build a fleet in no time, you would have a disadvantage
> in their effectivity, so you have an advantage, if you plan ahead and
> do not only react.
>
> Jochen
>
No, this adds another level of complication, simplify, simplify, should
be what Tim says as he rolls out of bed on the days he will work on
Planets. Everybody who has a neat new twist to suggest, please keep your
ideas to yourself until some of the big stuff gets fixed.

al
!