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Upgraded Motherboard / CPU just for constant surges

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July 15, 2011 12:35:15 AM

Hey guys I recently upgraded my computer to the following

Motherboard: Asus M4A88T-Evo / USB3

CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 965 Black Edition 3.4GHz Socket AM3 8MB Cache 125W

RAM: 2 x 2 Gig Corsair 1333

Bare in mind I didn't wipe my PC - I simply changed the components which in fact were from an Intel combo. I've tried purging the machine of any conflicting files like deleted MSI Afterburner but I'm really stumped on what to do.

My PSU is a 570 watt Trust (brand) and I'm having surges all the time when the PC tries to do anything with graphics involved. (I'm unfamiliar with the terms)

The computer itself loads quickly but when I log onto the likes of World of Warcraft or Team Fortress 2, even watch a Youtube video the whole computer will crash and reboot, telling me that Asus Anti Surge stopped it from dying basically

I have updated the BIOS, reinstalled the drivers of the graphics card but have had no joy. The PC boots fine, can let me come here write out posts but after a certain point bam it dies - over and over

Do I really need to upgrade the PSU? I assumed 570 would be enough.

Thanks for any info.

If you suggest any tests please provide links as I'm not too smart with the lingo here.
July 15, 2011 2:08:48 AM

Well, Ive never heard of trust. What graphics card are you using? Mediocre power supplies can have bad power drop and this can be really bad for pc components. It's actually really good that you are getting an automatic shutdown instead of overtime damage to your pc!

EDIT: Trust is not lised at newegg, so I trust :sarcastic:  it's a PSU issue. Is it a generic gray box?

EDIT 2: Is it one of these? Because trust doesn't make a 570w psu. Actualy, the only x70 that they make is the 370. Are you positive you have a 570? I trust :sarcastic:  you will be responding. ;) 

PUNS!
July 15, 2011 2:19:58 AM

The PSU is this: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Trust-570W-Pro-Psu-Dual/dp/B000...

It's discontinued? I trust within good reason

What do people recommend then? I can play Football Manager and other such games fine so I'm pretty confused why it does it at certain times

My graphics card is an MSI GTX 460

Cheers for the sharp response!
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July 15, 2011 3:36:38 AM

Indeed

So what kind of wattage do I need? I know you say (As many others do) that this is a bad PSU but how much better quality do I need
a b ) Power supply
a b V Motherboard
July 15, 2011 8:49:42 AM

you've kinda mixed up power wattage with quality.

BTW welcome to the forums, newcomer!
For a gt460 -the minimum is a 500W PSU maximum - but if your sli'ing then a 700W is needed.

lets look at anti-trust brands; that should solve the issue :D 

you could get a NZXT Hale90 550W PSU, xfx 550W PSU, or a corsair V2 series. Personally I like modular PSU's. Easier on the wires, cleaner to look at and better with temps.

couldn't find the NZXT hale90 on amazon.com, newegg but on tigerdirect - http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/ite...

the psu will last you another 4~5 upgrades. We have a thumb rule when building rigs - the psu and case should remain constant-lasting a good few builds while the mobo, cpu, ram and gpu change. That 750w is a lil pricey but once bought you can forget about it for the next 4 years maybe. That 750W also gives you headroom when OC'ing components.

My 2 cents!
July 15, 2011 1:10:24 PM

Lutfij said:
you've kinda mixed up power wattage with quality.

BTW welcome to the forums, newcomer!
For a gt460 -the minimum is a 500W PSU maximum - but if your sli'ing then a 700W is needed.

lets look at anti-trust brands; that should solve the issue :D 

you could get a NZXT Hale90 550W PSU, xfx 550W PSU, or a corsair V2 series. Personally I like modular PSU's. Easier on the wires, cleaner to look at and better with temps.

couldn't find the NZXT hale90 on amazon.com, newegg but on tigerdirect - http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/ite...

the psu will last you another 4~5 upgrades. We have a thumb rule when building rigs - the psu and case should remain constant-lasting a good few builds while the mobo, cpu, ram and gpu change. That 750w is a lil pricey but once bought you can forget about it for the next 4 years maybe. That 750W also gives you headroom when OC'ing components.

My 2 cents!


Awesome advice I'm greatly appreciative! I've monitored these forums for a long time however figured it was too out of my depth with technical stuff! I'm glad to be here and receiving some good feedback

I'll check out the PSU I'm assuming I can pick up more or less the same brands over here in the UK?

I might take a trip to PC world even though in truth I'd rather order offline. Corsair and Coolermaster 600-750w are also okay do you think?

My mothers other half says it might be something to do with the graphics card to PSU - I can run standard applications such as Microsoft Office, the internet, Windows Live Messenger and games without demanding graphic power such as FM 2011 which doesn't have 3D capability unless enabled.

I loaded Surpeme Commander 2 and by default it was 1024x700 (Might be a bit off) for resolution and as soon as I increased it the power died.

With World of Warcraft I log on and after flying around for say 3-4 minutes it'll do the same, note that in that time all I do is fly, I do not go to areas with a million NPCs or do anything more stressful in the game. The frame-rate was around 90 and my latency was fine, my RAM is Corsair and the manual for the motherboard doesn't have it specified as a working one but as everything else works I'm not sure if that is the problem? Afterall it does die from the power

After turning off the Anti-Surge on the motherboard the PC still surges out just without the error message when I turn it back on - I must have restarted the thing 30+ times yesterday please tell me it isn't going to die on me now because of all these surges!
a b ) Power supply
a b V Motherboard
July 15, 2011 1:27:44 PM

oh your in the UK?!?!?! then why didn't you say so?!?!!

just finished giving this mate advice - http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/308742-28-help-needed

boom - here you go - http://www.scan.co.uk/shop/computer-hardware/all/power-...

If i were you, I'd stop playing around with that crap psu and damage ALL of the case innards and have to deal with the evil/ugly half of your mother :/  the sudden surge indicates that the psu is being overloaded and needs to shutdown to prevent damagind any other hardware connected to the PSU. Your mobo will give in soon enough with this sort of 4th of july fiddling your doing.

No offense bro - just thought you should stop. Your psu will also end up taking your hardware out slowly - first some BSOD's and then random restarts and then some crashes and then dead parts...so you can look forward to getting another 600 quid worth of hardware.

my 2 cents
July 15, 2011 1:31:28 PM

Lutfij said:
oh your in the UK?!?!?! then why didn't you say so?!?!!

just finished giving this mate advice - http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/308742-28-help-needed

boom - here you go - http://www.scan.co.uk/shop/computer-hardware/all/power-...


Assumed most people here were American because of the shop links constantly being sites I don't get here! Aha.

My apologies if the issue I descibe are not specific enough but basing it on what I've said is it fairly obvious the problem is the PSU? I have it within the year warrantee from Maplins but even replacing it might not be enough sooo perhaps easier as you linked, to buy fresh.

Thanks again mate
a b ) Power supply
a b V Motherboard
July 15, 2011 1:34:49 PM

^ i edited my post refresh screen and look up :) 
July 15, 2011 1:39:09 PM

Lutfij said:
^ i edited my post refresh screen and look up :) 


I can't find the receipt of the last one to take it back anyway plus if that's the standard they sell I'm not too pleased

I haven't turned it on since last night now I'm going to be worrying it's f*cked for good!

It died about 15 times in truth yesterday - surging I mean, I'm guessing that means it could be completely blown?
a b ) Power supply
a b V Motherboard
July 15, 2011 1:44:17 PM

the longer we talk about a bad psu the more time you waste. honestly - all of this should keep you on your toes that the psu MIGHT'VE killed something in your system...i lost $1000 worth of hardware cos of fiddling like you did with a cheap Chinese psu.
July 15, 2011 1:48:30 PM

Lutfij said:
the longer we talk about a bad psu the more time you waste. honestly - all of this should keep you on your toes that the psu MIGHT'VE killed something in your system...i lost $1000 worth of hardware cos of fiddling like you did with a cheap Chinese psu.


Time wasted? It's not long I have it on or intend to turn it on under the current hardware :ange: 

If I had a spare graphics card I'd try that to see if that's the cause because I can't just randomly shell out to patch over a problem I can't quite identify, sure it's surging but what's to say it isn't getting enough juice

It worked with my old build which was an XFX motherboard and Intel 8 series 3.0ghz dual core processor no problems whatsoever on mid spec for games so it's hardly like I've build it from scratch and the PSU is bad from the off.

I'm not sure how significant my current upgrade has been to mean for an overhaul in power supply
a b ) Power supply
a b V Motherboard
July 15, 2011 2:07:00 PM

1| PSU's are made of capacitors, these capacitors age over time and are subject to abuse from heat and humidity. Thus over time they become less efficient and provide less power over time. a leaking capacitor or a damaged cap can blow out taking out the unit. since the unit is responsible for delivering power - the delivery chain is hampered possibly giving a slight surge.

SO you trying to use an old psu is the primary cause for the surge.

better yet - since you have so much time in hand :)  read the power supply guide link. I know where the problem is cos i read a 14 page article on PSU knowhow - so if you think you have a better idea by dropping in another gpu to test and blow to kingdom come - go ahead. I'm only here to help not beat your face to the concrete pavement, nor make you listen to what i have to say :D  ;P :lol: 

2| as for power req's go to this site and you'll understand how much power your system needs.

3| i recommend you read this
July 15, 2011 2:18:56 PM

Lutfij said:
1| PSU's are made of capacitors, these capacitors age over time and are subject to abuse from heat and humidity. Thus over time they become less efficient and provide less power over time. a leaking capacitor or a damaged cap can blow out taking out the unit. since the unit is responsible for delivering power - the delivery chain is hampered possibly giving a slight surge.

SO you trying to use an old psu is the primary cause for the surge.

better yet - since you have so much time in hand :)  read the power supply guide link. I know where the problem is cos i read a 14 page article on PSU knowhow - so if you think you have a better idea by dropping in another gpu to test and blow to kingdom come - go ahead. I'm only here to help not beat your face to the concrete pavement, nor make listen to what i have to say :D  ;P :lol: 

2| as for power req's go to this site and you'll understand how much power your system needs.

3| i recommend you read this


I have no doubts you know what you are talking about and if I was even slightly as tech-savy as you perhaps I'd try test your suggestions however I meant generally speaking I might have tried another graphics card to see what the problem was, as someone that very rarely looks at hardware for PCs it's no wonder I'd have screwed that up so thanks, I meant in no way to test your ideas.

According to the link you sent, with the power supply calculation I should need around 450w - I guess I'll make sure I pick up a 600w + to be sure.

I will give a read to the understanding of power supplies but in truth I'd be happy just for it to work right now and not die on me, which has been duely appreciated in the sense you stopped me killing it.

I'll be sure to thank you once again when I have picked up a sufficient PSU and tested it out. If a motherboard by the way is blown, will it just not work at all?

I guess if I get it running I'll keep an eye out for any errors that could suggest it
a b ) Power supply
a b V Motherboard
July 15, 2011 2:29:31 PM

Quote:
If a motherboard by the way is blown, will it just not work at all?
nope it wont - it'll just kill anything its connected to or maybe if possible it'll leave that piece of hardware alone.

Quote:
Do I really need to upgrade the PSU?
upgrade is not the word - replacement is the term. that psu isn't delivering the needed wattage and to protect the rig from breathing its last - its shutting down imminently.

Quote:
I guess if I get it running I'll keep an eye out for any errors that could suggest it
accordingly you should get a new psu and then get it running. so that trust psu should come off asap. besides most Chinese psu's have a sticker on it that is there only for selling it to unconscious buyers.
July 15, 2011 6:25:07 PM

Bought a 600w OCZ Stealth Stream 2 supply

That a good enoug make / model? I have no intention of going SLI
a b ) Power supply
a b V Motherboard
July 15, 2011 6:27:55 PM

:/  then you could've settled for the nzxt hale90 650W. I'm not a fan of ocz's as they aren't good makers of PSU's. If you've bought it then there was no point in asking if they are good... :p 
July 15, 2011 6:31:26 PM

Lutfij said:
:/ then you could've settled for the nzxt hale90 650W. I'm not a fan of ocz's as they aren't good makers of PSU's. If you've bought it then there was no point in asking if they are good... :p 


They are not good makers in what sense? Being competitive with top brands?

I just want one that works - I was asking if that was the case for getting the job done. As for the fact I bought it, I haven't opened it, so it's not a great concern right now
a b ) Power supply
a b V Motherboard
July 15, 2011 6:37:34 PM

PSU's like i said are components that , along with the case, should remain in your PC for a long time to come. When you buy a PSU and only expect it to get the job done then you'll have bleeding knuckles trying to disconnect everything and putting all the wires back in their places when you get a slightly higher wattage cos the previous PSU wasn't cutting it or was just a bit short on delivering juice.

OCZ were really good brands in terms of ram, they later ventured into gaming peripherals and then into PSU's. lately they have been doing good in the SSD business and in doing so have shutdown their ram division. abandoned the gaming peripheral sector and they make PSU's of an average quality. for that price(in the UK especially) that price is better spent on another unit. Seasonic, NZXT, Thermaltake, Corsair and Antec(there are more but i'll just stick with these)

my thermaltake toughpower 600w psu was in my rig for 3~4 years and i even ran an OC. No complains whatsoever. I even traded it with my pal...now he runs it to power his htpc. Morality of the purchase - one purchase - 4 years of care free OC'ed pc usage.
July 15, 2011 6:45:54 PM

As oppose to something like Trust, whom I have never heard of I figured it'd be an improvement and I highly doubt this will cause me any problems considering from reviews I've read it's pretty satisfactory.

Whether there are better models from different makers or not is irrelevant as I just wanted to know if it was enough in terms of the wattage. The next time I upgrade a PC I will no doubt buy one pre-made so I'll tackle that when I get to it.

Hell the Trust model would have lasted with my old one I imagine so with this, as long as I don't upgrade it, which I wont, it should be okay. Correct?

As for your Thermaltake one are you saying this will suffer problems? As oppose to that particular model - I fail to see the comparison
a b ) Power supply
a b V Motherboard
July 15, 2011 6:59:50 PM

bro, TRUST me when i say - i don't mean to be rude!!! but you already SEEM to have your answers scripted in advance and least bit enthusiastic about addressing a long term solution for a highly volatile problem of loosing valuable set of hardware. :lol: 

I bought a thermaltake toupghpower 600W about 4 years ago. I used it on my x48 rig and had an OC on my proc and GPU. 4 years later i needed a higher wattage model - step in the thermaltake toughpower grand 750W and i decided to let the 600W unit off my hands instead of letting it gather dust in my house. I sold it to him for a good price for a unit of that age. So i mean't; buying something that lasts.

We could actually start another thread about not buying pre-made rigs as you can save 300~400 quid building it yourself and choosing what goes in it.

Well, as far as this thread is concerned, you already have a replacement PSU and i should get some rest cos of all this chatter.
Need a glass of water as well :) 
July 15, 2011 7:04:02 PM

Lutfij said:
bro, TRUST me when i say - i don't mean to be rude!!! but you already SEEM to have your answers scripted in advance and least bit enthusiastic about addressing a long term solution for a highly volatile problem of loosing valuable set of hardware. :lol: 

I bought a thermaltake toupghpower 600W about 4 years ago. I used it on my x48 rig and had an OC on my proc and GPU. 4 years later i needed a higher wattage model - step ion the thermaltake toughpower grand 750W and i decided to let it off my hands instead of letting it gather dust in my house. I sold it to him for a good price for a unit of that age. So i mean't buying something that lasts.

We could actually start another thread about not buying pre-made rigs as you can save 300~400 quid building it yourself and choosing what goes in it.

Well, as far as this thread is concerned, you already have a replacement PSU and i should get some rest cos of all this chatter.
Need a glass of water as well :) 


Some things I'm a little tunnel vision with I admit!

But you never answered if it'd be sufficient! Not for 4 years but ya know, as the rig is!

Pre-made rigs cause me less stress that's all just ashame you have to pay a premium for crap basically. Even so we'll have that "debate" in a few years!
a b ) Power supply
a b V Motherboard
July 15, 2011 7:09:37 PM

Quote:
Pre-made rigs cause me less stress that's all just ashame you have to pay a premium for crap basically. Even so we'll have that "debate" in a few years!
I'll remember to bring a whole crate of coca cola for the event :) 

The only reason I'm not saying its sufficient is cos I know you'll walk through the same doors (Tomshardware "doctors office" doors) cos of a similar problem you faced before opening this thread :) 

That x4 965 should be used/stripped of its full potential in 3~4 years. Thas the reason for getting a better PSU - if all goes well you could sell it off for a good price(ofcourse if your OCZ PSU holds out until then )
July 16, 2011 11:00:30 PM

It's now been working fine and had no problems however

For my setup is 50 degrees core temperature normal for this model? Some people say yeah it's alright but I just want to be safe

This temperature is after 2-3 hours of usage on games and such - I have 2 x 12 cm fans one at the front with air coming in then one at the back which blows out.

!