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Canon Rebel 350D/Rebel XT vs Nikon D70

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Anonymous
February 18, 2005 9:01:45 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Ok, someone had to do it. Now go ....

- Siddhartha
February 18, 2005 4:01:05 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

your like 2 days late ...
Anonymous
February 18, 2005 4:20:57 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Is it true Nikon has something going on with a 10MP aps sized sensor? This
could get interesting.

I'm not going to upgrade my Rebel for 2 MP improvement even if there are
more features. As from the test there is virtually nothing gained. Going
from 6 to 10MP should be a worthwhile improvement. Not sure I'd leave Canon
for it though. Too many lenses to replace.
bg


"Siddhartha Jain" <losttoy2000@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1108735305.684678.264970@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> Ok, someone had to do it. Now go ....
>
> - Siddhartha
>
Related resources
Anonymous
February 18, 2005 6:39:28 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Chuck wrote:
> your like 2 days late ...

I think he's looking for an informed comparison of the two (not just by
the numbers), which I'd also like to see as I'm planning to make a
purchase fairly soon.

Randy. (who's still leaning toward the D70)
Anonymous
February 18, 2005 6:39:29 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Randy W. Sims" <RandyS@ThePierianSpring.org> wrote in message
news:8pGdnUO_9Lscz4vfRVn_vA@giganews.com...
> Chuck wrote:
>> your like 2 days late ...
>
> I think he's looking for an informed comparison of the two (not just by
> the numbers), which I'd also like to see as I'm planning to make a
> purchase fairly soon.
>
> Randy. (who's still leaning toward the D70)

Well, let's put it this way: You wouldn't be making a mistake buying the
D70, especially with all the rebates right now.
February 18, 2005 7:13:52 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

In article <JYqdnQG2MfeGyYvfRVn-qw@comcast.com>, sheldon@XXXXXXXXsopris.net
says...
>
> "Randy W. Sims" <RandyS@ThePierianSpring.org> wrote in message
> news:8pGdnUO_9Lscz4vfRVn_vA@giganews.com...
> > Chuck wrote:
> >> your like 2 days late ...
> >
> > I think he's looking for an informed comparison of the two (not just by
> > the numbers), which I'd also like to see as I'm planning to make a
> > purchase fairly soon.
> >
> > Randy. (who's still leaning toward the D70)
>
> Well, let's put it this way: You wouldn't be making a mistake buying the
> D70, especially with all the rebates right now.
>
>
>


I used a buddy's D70 for a weekend, and except for some moire on a couple of
shots of a girl in a corduroy suit, I loved every shot I took.

Its past being a good camera and almost into being a great camera, the only
holdback being that one little problem.

I just inherited a suitcase full of Canon glass (nobody died, it was given to
me) and most of the lenses can be used in the Rebel or the New Rebel, so
thats what has kept me from buy a D70.


--
Larry Lynch
Mystic, Ct.
Anonymous
February 18, 2005 8:55:13 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

In article <1108735305.684678.264970@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
Siddhartha Jain says...
> Ok, someone had to do it. Now go ....

Obviously the camera with the higher resolution wins...
--

Alfred Molon
------------------------------
Olympus 4040, 5050, 5060, 7070, 8080, E300 forum at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
Olympus 8080 resource - http://myolympus.org/8080/
Anonymous
February 18, 2005 8:55:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Alfred Molon" <alfred_molonREMOVE@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1c803c6010f1415398a9db@news.supernews.com...
> In article <1108735305.684678.264970@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
> Siddhartha Jain says...
>> Ok, someone had to do it. Now go ....
>
> Obviously the camera with the higher resolution wins...

What about smaller/lighter?
February 18, 2005 8:55:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

In article <MPG.1c803c6010f1415398a9db@news.supernews.com>,
alfred_molonREMOVE@yahoo.com says...
> In article <1108735305.684678.264970@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
> Siddhartha Jain says...
> > Ok, someone had to do it. Now go ....
>
> Obviously the camera with the higher resolution wins...
>

ONLY if it takes better pictures.

I have a Sony F-717, and a Sony F-828.

The first is 5mp
The second is *mp

The first has only MINIMAL problem with fringing in a photo with strong
backlighting or a small high contrast are (like sunlight or spotlight
glinting of the gold/silver on a western saddle)

The second has a problem with the purple fringing that is MUCH more
pronounced.... Which one do you think Im going to use if Im shooting those
circumstances???

The 5mp gets used MORE when I'm more likely to have backlighting or glinting
in the picture. I want BETTER pictures, not BIGGER pictures.

If Im forced to print an 8x10 from the 5mp shot, I would rather do it and NOT
have the fringing, thank you very much.

Im not much impressed with the quality of pictures from most of the 8mp
cameras (non-DSLR) whether I'll be impressed with the ones from a DSLR
remains to be seen. The sensors are larger, so the picture should have less
noise.

What I've seen on-line looks good, but I didn't take them, so I dont know
(for sure) whats been done to them between camera and website.


--
Larry Lynch
Mystic, Ct.
February 18, 2005 8:55:15 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

In article <MPG.1c8000517e33ddc99896b8@news.individual.NET>,
larrylynch3rd@comcast.net says...
> In article <MPG.1c803c6010f1415398a9db@news.supernews.com>,
> alfred_molonREMOVE@yahoo.com says...
> > In article <1108735305.684678.264970@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
> > Siddhartha Jain says...
> > > Ok, someone had to do it. Now go ....
> >
> > Obviously the camera with the higher resolution wins...
> >
>
> ONLY if it takes better pictures.
>
> I have a Sony F-717, and a Sony F-828.
>
> The first is 5mp
> The second is *mp

That was SUPPOSED to be 8mp

>
> The first has only MINIMAL problem with fringing in a photo with strong
> backlighting or a small high contrast are (like sunlight or spotlight
> glinting of the gold/silver on a western saddle)
>
> The second has a problem with the purple fringing that is MUCH more
> pronounced.... Which one do you think Im going to use if Im shooting those
> circumstances???
>
> The 5mp gets used MORE when I'm more likely to have backlighting or glinting
> in the picture. I want BETTER pictures, not BIGGER pictures.
>
> If Im forced to print an 8x10 from the 5mp shot, I would rather do it and NOT
> have the fringing, thank you very much.
>
> Im not much impressed with the quality of pictures from most of the 8mp
> cameras (non-DSLR) whether I'll be impressed with the ones from a DSLR
> remains to be seen. The sensors are larger, so the picture should have less
> noise.
>
> What I've seen on-line looks good, but I didn't take them, so I dont know
> (for sure) whats been done to them between camera and website.
>
>
>
February 18, 2005 9:25:10 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

> Obviously the camera with the higher resolution wins...

No, isn't so easy!
Anonymous
February 18, 2005 10:10:34 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Alfred Molon wrote:
> In article <1108735305.684678.264970@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
> Siddhartha Jain says...
>
>>Ok, someone had to do it. Now go ....
>
>
> Obviously the camera with the higher resolution wins...

I wouldn't get too excited about the difference in the sensor
resolution between the D70 and the 350D. You really shouldn't become
fixated on megapixels because there are a lot of other considerations
to be made in the selection of a digital SLR. Actual image quality is
one, but there are other functionality issues as well. Obviously it's
too early for image quality comparisons, so look at the functionality
issues for now:

Functionally, the 350D has a few advantages:

1. True USB 2.0 interface.
2. Available vertical grip.
3. Mirror lock-up.
4. EF-s lenses, especially the EF-s 10-22, for which Nikon does not
yet
have something similar.

The D70 has spot metering, which the EOS-350D doesn't have.

Function-wise, the 350D is high-end consumer/low-end prosumer. I think
that Canon may keep the 300D and drop the price, so they can have a
very low-priced, "entry-level" D-SLR.

Personally, I would not buy an SLR with no vertical grip, I just like
vertical grips a lot. But the D70 does have an aftermarket vertical
grip available, which is sufficient, if a bit of a kludge with
connections via cables since the D70 has no connector for a grip.

It looks like a shakeout is already occuring in digital SLRs, with
everyone but Canon and Nikon becoming low-volume niche players.

I think that Nikon will soon introduce three new digital SLRs (model
numbers made up):

D80. High-end consumer. Upgrade to the D70, with an 8 megapixel CMOS
sensor, and mirror lock-up.

D200. Prosumer. Answer to the 20D, with higher frame rate, 8 megapixel
CMOS sensor, mirror lock-up and vertical grip. The D100 is obsolete.

D3x. Full frame CMOS sensor. Answer to the Canon EOS 1Ds Mark II.

Now that Nikon apparently is able to do a CMOS sensor, they will
leverage this as soon as possible to go up against Canon in all
segments.
Anonymous
February 19, 2005 1:29:43 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

My D70 has mirror lock up... Am I missing something? I used it to
clean the ccd.
Anonymous
February 19, 2005 3:28:09 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Siddhartha Jain" <losttoy2000@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> Ok, someone had to do it. Now go ....

D70: sharp, saturated 6MP images. Spot meter, grid lines on screen.
350D: 8MP slightly lower noise/slightly less frequent Moiré/slightly more
neutral color rendition images. Missing those two useful features.
Otherwise, very very similar. (The 300D -> 350D improvements other than
pixel count were largely playing catch up.)

My opinion: I do _not_ think the 350D deserves to be rated as a D70 killer,
but the extra 2MP (which is pretty much a snore) probably will make it one
in practice.

The lighter weight of the 350D makes it more of a viable option for people
who would normally not look at a dSLR and only consider consumer dcams. (My
300D drops into my briefcase, even with a custom L bracket (tripod mount)
attached, so the 350D without a bracket will be seriously portable.)

David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan
Anonymous
February 19, 2005 5:51:22 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

In article <MPG.1c80249a1cc063f09896bf@news.individual.NET>, Larry
<larrylynch3rd@comcast.net> wrote:

> I used a buddy's D70 for a weekend, and except for some moire on a couple of
> shots of a girl in a corduroy suit, I loved every shot I took.
>
> Its past being a good camera and almost into being a great camera, the only
> holdback being that one little problem.
>
> I just inherited a suitcase full of Canon glass (nobody died, it was given to
> me) and most of the lenses can be used in the Rebel or the New Rebel, so
> thats what has kept me from buy a D70.

eBay is your pla...
Anonymous
February 19, 2005 10:50:49 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Swriter33 wrote:
> My D70 has mirror lock up... Am I missing something?

Yes. Every digital SLR has mirror lock-up for cleaning the sensor. The
D70 doesn't have mirror lock-up for actually taking photos.
Anonymous
February 19, 2005 1:26:20 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 18:25:10 GMT, "M@O" <M@O.it> wrote:

>
>> Obviously the camera with the higher resolution wins...
>
>No, isn't so easy!

I think Alfred forgot the smiley there...

--
Chris Pollard


CG Internet café, Tagum City, Philippines
http://www.cginternet.net
Anonymous
February 19, 2005 2:38:03 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

In article <786495bd.0502181910.699b25ec@posting.google.com>, Steven
Scharf says...
> Alfred Molon wrote:
> > In article <1108735305.684678.264970@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
> > Siddhartha Jain says...
> >
> >>Ok, someone had to do it. Now go ....
> >
> >
> > Obviously the camera with the higher resolution wins...
>
> I wouldn't get too excited about the difference in the sensor
> resolution between the D70 and the 350D. You really shouldn't become
> fixated on megapixels because there are a lot of other considerations
> to be made in the selection of a digital SLR.

Unless you need the extra resolution. I wouldn't mind buying a 14 or
22MP camera if the price was not too high. As for image quality, I'd
guess the new 350 will produce images with (at the very least) good
enough quality.
--

Alfred Molon
------------------------------
Olympus 4040, 5050, 5060, 7070, 8080, E300 forum at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
Olympus 8080 resource - http://myolympus.org/8080/
Anonymous
February 19, 2005 7:37:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On 18 Feb 2005 22:29:43 -0800, "Swriter33" <tony@povertyisland.com> wrote:

>My D70 has mirror lock up... Am I missing something? I used it to
>clean the ccd.

Yeah. You're missing the idea that it would be nice to have mirror lock up for
taking photos. The idea is, to flip up the mirror, and allow time for the
resultant vibrations to die down before opening the shutter.


--
Chris Pollard


CG Internet café, Tagum City, Philippines
http://www.cginternet.net
Anonymous
February 19, 2005 7:37:15 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Christopher Pollard wrote:
> On 18 Feb 2005 22:29:43 -0800, "Swriter33" <tony@povertyisland.com> wrote:
>
>
>>My D70 has mirror lock up... Am I missing something? I used it to
>>clean the ccd.
>
>
> Yeah. You're missing the idea that it would be nice to have mirror lock up for
> taking photos. The idea is, to flip up the mirror, and allow time for the
> resultant vibrations to die down before opening the shutter.
>
Where is this critical? I was under the impression it was used only in
slow shutter situations, on a tripod.

Has not the mirror pop up and back improved over the years?

--
John McWilliams
Anonymous
February 19, 2005 7:47:07 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Siddhartha Jain" <losttoy2000@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1108735305.684678.264970@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> Ok, someone had to do it. Now go ....
>
> - Siddhartha

I've been doing on-line research between Nikon D70 and Canon's 20D and
Digital Rebel for some time. Also, I've spoken with several friends who
have one system or the other and another friend who is a professional
photographer. The preferences vary, but most folks are happy with what they
own.

Today, I went to the corner camera store and test drove a Digital Rebel and
a Nikon D70. Huge difference in feel. The Canon was very small in my hands
and was very light. The package lens felt fragile, and the controls had a
cheap feel. In contrast, the Nikon body and kit lens had a much more solid
feel. While weight isn't good when you're lugging it around for hours at a
time, a camera is a tool, and should feel good in your hands.

I'm waiting to play with a Rebel 350D before I make a decision, but right
now, I'm leaning Nikon. I'll lean harder that way if they upgrade their
sensor to 8mp...

I still want to get a 20D in my hands, although I'm not sure I'm a serious
enough user to spend the extra ~$500.

KB
Anonymous
February 19, 2005 7:47:08 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Kyle Boatright wrote:
> "Siddhartha Jain" <losttoy2000@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:1108735305.684678.264970@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>
>>Ok, someone had to do it. Now go ....
>>
>>- Siddhartha
>
>
> I've been doing on-line research between Nikon D70 and Canon's 20D and
> Digital Rebel for some time. Also, I've spoken with several friends who
> have one system or the other and another friend who is a professional
> photographer. The preferences vary, but most folks are happy with what they
> own.
>
> Today, I went to the corner camera store and test drove a Digital Rebel and
> a Nikon D70. Huge difference in feel. The Canon was very small in my hands
> and was very light. The package lens felt fragile, and the controls had a
> cheap feel. In contrast, the Nikon body and kit lens had a much more solid
> feel. While weight isn't good when you're lugging it around for hours at a
> time, a camera is a tool, and should feel good in your hands.
>
> I'm waiting to play with a Rebel 350D before I make a decision, but right
> now, I'm leaning Nikon. I'll lean harder that way if they upgrade their
> sensor to 8mp...
>
> I still want to get a 20D in my hands, although I'm not sure I'm a serious
> enough user to spend the extra ~$500.
>
Please post back your reflections on the 350D. Could be interesting!

--
John McWilliams
Anonymous
February 19, 2005 8:15:54 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

John McWilliams wrote:

> Where is this critical? I was under the impression it was used only in
> slow shutter situations, on a tripod.
>
> Has not the mirror pop up and back improved over the years?

Probably, but never enough. On the EOS-1v there is an active damping system,
but on pretty much every other SLR/DSLR the mirror slap problem remains. CW is
that a shot of 1/10 or so down to about 1/125 or so, on a tripod, will benefit
from a mirror lockup. The real times vary from camera model to model and may
affected by other mass (flash, lens, coupling to tripod).

Some people subscribe to a range of 1 sec down to 1/250 as 'mirror lockup' range.

On Maxxum cameras, a 2 sec delay is used for mirror lockup. (When in that mode,
the shutter is delayed by 2 sec after the mirror is up).

Cheers,
Alan.

--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.
Anonymous
February 19, 2005 8:57:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 13:14:03 -0800, John McWilliams
<jpmcw@comcast.net> wrote:

>Christopher Pollard wrote:
>> On 18 Feb 2005 22:29:43 -0800, "Swriter33" <tony@povertyisland.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>My D70 has mirror lock up... Am I missing something? I used it to
>>>clean the ccd.
>>
>>
>> Yeah. You're missing the idea that it would be nice to have mirror lock up for
>> taking photos. The idea is, to flip up the mirror, and allow time for the
>> resultant vibrations to die down before opening the shutter.
>>
>Where is this critical? I was under the impression it was used only in
>slow shutter situations, on a tripod.
>
>Has not the mirror pop up and back improved over the years?

Yes, but for critical work at shutter speeds of 1 sec to about 1/15
it's still nice to have. On a lot of slr's using the self timer will
accomplish the same thing.
Anonymous
February 19, 2005 9:05:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

> Kevin McMurtrie <mcmurtri@dslextreme.com> wrote:

> I'm curious to see the noise and color accuracy
> performance of the 350D. Can technology compensate for
> such small sensors in an inexpensive camera?

APS-size isn't that small, compared to digicam sensor
sizes. And pel density seems to be the biggest factor
in noise (at least today). The next issue is: can the
glass actually resolve to the sensor res?

> Sony's 8MP sensors weren't very impressive.

If Canon starts shipping the 350D before Phil has test
charts, as Sony did with the DSC-F828, then we'll have
our answer. But my guess is that there's no noise issue.

I ran the numbers once, and my faulty recollection is
that an APS-size sensor would have to get to 20Mp or
so before it was at the same pel density as that Sony
'F828 sensor.

It will be interesting to see where the Mpixel race
tops out at the various sensors sizes. I daresay that
the reach of the tiny digicam sensors has already
exceeded their grasp at 8Mp.

On the 350D kit, will dpreview's test charts be
testing the camera, or the lens? We await the results.

--
Regards, Bob Niland mailto:name@ispname.tld
http://www.access-one.com/rjn email4rjn AT yahoo DOT com
NOT speaking for any employer, client or Internet Service Provider.
Anonymous
February 20, 2005 10:26:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 16:13:52 -0500, Larry <larrylynch3rd@comcast.net>
wrote:

>Its past being a good camera and almost into being a great camera, the only
>holdback being that one little problem.

>I just inherited a suitcase full of Canon glass

I'd like that sort of problem. It would make my deliberations much
easier. :-)

(I've just found this group, having decided that it's time to move on
from my Olympus OMs into the digital SLR world. Thanks to threads like
this I'm getting an idea of what's available in the dSLR marketplace.)


--
Al

[This space intentionally left blank]
February 24, 2005 1:12:56 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

I have a Nikon D70 that I purchase last Oct. I knew when I got it that the
megapixel battle would eventually become a topic. I figure that for my
use that 6 megapixel will be useful for me for several years to come. I
would not consider a 2 megapixel change to be significant enough to even
bother to be the reason that would drive my purchase if I were to buy a
new camera today. For most users you will not see a diffrence in picture
quality until you get at least a doubling of your pixels (read as 12-40
megapixel camera). By the time I will be looking at my next camera that
is the sort of range that I would need to see to make the next jump. I
looked the the rebel when I originally bought and didn't even consider it
a contender. The 350 might be an improvement but I like the size, feel
and controls on my D70. It just feels tough and the Cannon didn't. I
will likley stay with Nikon in the future since I have invested in Nikon
glass and speedlights.

I will likely look at the Cannon 350 out of being curious but the
megapixels don't make the camera. There is so much more!!
February 24, 2005 1:26:32 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

I am adding just one more comment. I think even with the new Cannon 350 XT
having the improvements it will still be a close call on which camera gets
the nod by most buyers. If you have been doing photography for awhile you
will likely have your preference. If you like Nikon then you'll get a D70
and if the past loves have been Cannon then it's the 350XT. Like anything
else if you drive a Ford you'll turn up your nose at a Chev.

I really believe that you need a more substantial reason then 2 megapixels
to decide on what you will use and enjoy. If you can then test drive both
and go with the "love of your life". I think both are likely good cameras
and in the right hands will produce great photo's which is the name of the
game.

Photobug
February 24, 2005 5:03:05 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

In regards to my message on 2005-02-23 @ 22:12. I made a typo. The next
megapixel range I will update to to actually see an improvement will be in
the 12-16 megapixel range for a DSLR and actually I will want to look at
the upper range of that at the 16 megapixel range. I fugure if DSLR's
have upward movement that the computer industry has seen in the past that
this range will be in the not too distant future, maybe 2-3 years for
consumer, lower cost 16 megapixel DSLR's of the same range as Pentax ,
Cannon Rebel and Nikon D70.

Photobug
Anonymous
February 26, 2005 6:45:31 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

I have been using a Nikon F2a Film camera. I bought it when Nikon was
King, Canon a distant second, and the rest of pack were also rans. My
current lenses will not work with the new stuff so what I have is not a
consideration.

Now Canon seems to be King and Nikon is second, probably closer to Canon
than Canon was to Nikon in the past. Nikon D70 does seem to be better
constructed than the Digital Rebel and the lenses appear more sturdy as
well. I do not know about the XT but the 20D seems to be well built and
balanced.

So what I owned in the past does not seem to sway be toward Nikon except
for the fact that Nikon in my mind seems more prestigious. However, the
majority people are trying hard to convince me to buy Canon. The color
rendition from the Canons seem to be more pleasing and less muted but I
have not seen enough. Well, for now I can be confused.

Photobug wrote:

>I am adding just one more comment. I think even with the new Cannon 350 XT
>having the improvements it will still be a close call on which camera gets
>the nod by most buyers. If you have been doing photography for awhile you
>will likely have your preference. If you like Nikon then you'll get a D70
>and if the past loves have been Cannon then it's the 350XT. Like anything
>else if you drive a Ford you'll turn up your nose at a Chev.
>
>I really believe that you need a more substantial reason then 2 megapixels
>to decide on what you will use and enjoy. If you can then test drive both
>and go with the "love of your life". I think both are likely good cameras
>and in the right hands will produce great photo's which is the name of the
>game.
>
>Photobug
>
>
>
Anonymous
March 1, 2005 5:46:34 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

>
> The D70 has spot metering, which the EOS-350D doesn't have.
This is one major gotcha. I owned a G1, and uses spot metering 80% of
the time for portraits. Am thinking of 350D, but without spot metering,
what new tricks must I learn to take good pictures?

CJ
Anonymous
March 1, 2005 6:26:11 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Joe Cole wrote:
>
>>
>> The D70 has spot metering, which the EOS-350D doesn't have.
>
> This is one major gotcha. I owned a G1, and uses spot metering 80% of
> the time for portraits. Am thinking of 350D, but without spot metering,
> what new tricks must I learn to take good pictures?

For portraits, lighting control is important. Shoot manual. Use an ambient
incident/flash meter and a camera with a sync terminal to trigger the strobes.
(Or a wireless system with the off camera lights at manual power settings).

Portraits with a TTL meter (ambient or flash) does not lead to consistent exposure.

Cheers,
Alan.

--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.
Anonymous
March 1, 2005 6:26:36 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Joe Cole wrote:

>
>>
>> The D70 has spot metering, which the EOS-350D doesn't have.
>
> This is one major gotcha. I owned a G1, and uses spot metering 80% of
> the time for portraits. Am thinking of 350D, but without spot metering,
> what new tricks must I learn to take good pictures?

For portraits, lighting control is important. Shoot manual. Use an ambient
incident/flash meter and a camera with a sync terminal to trigger the strobes.
(Or a wireless system with the off camera lights at manual power settings).

Portraits with a TTL meter (ambient or flash) does not lead to consistent exposure.

Cheers,
Alan.


--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.
Anonymous
March 1, 2005 11:01:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

G.T. wrote:
> "Alfred Molon" <DELETEalfred_molon@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:MPG.1c8ef0eac4d6a71398aa1d@news.supernews.com...

<snip>

> > One more reason to introduce live preview even on
> > DSLRs.
>
> And you call Steven a troll. Ironic.

Alfred may not be a troll, he may just not understand how SLRs work.
I've seen many of his posts, and he is either a troll, or quite
clueless, and I can't figure out which.
Anonymous
March 1, 2005 11:34:23 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Joe Cole" <cphua@nyc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:4224c6f0$0$6199$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosting.com...
>
>>
>> The D70 has spot metering, which the EOS-350D doesn't have.
> This is one major gotcha. I owned a G1, and uses spot metering 80% of the
> time for portraits. Am thinking of 350D, but without spot metering, what
> new tricks must I learn to take good pictures?
>
> CJ

The lack of spot meter kept me out of the DSLR game for a long time, but it
became apparent that Canon wasn't going to produce a sub $2000 DSLR with it,
so I relented. I still miss it, to me it was invaluable for portrait work,
but others seem to have adjusted well, I can, too. In the meantime, I'm
saving up nickels and dimes for a 1 series body...

--
Skip Middleton
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
Anonymous
March 2, 2005 12:37:21 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

In article <4224c6f0$0$6199$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosting.com>, Joe
Cole says...

> This is one major gotcha. I owned a G1, and uses spot metering 80% of
> the time for portraits. Am thinking of 350D, but without spot metering,
> what new tricks must I learn to take good pictures?

With non-DLSRs spot metering is easy and cheap to implement because all
you need to do is read out the central pixels, but with a DSLR it's more
complicated, as you need a separate sensor (from what I understand)
which costs money. One more reason to introduce live preview even on
DSLRs.
--

Alfred Molon
------------------------------
Olympus 4040, 5050, 5060, 7070, 8080, E300 forum at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
Olympus 8080 resource - http://myolympus.org/8080/
Anonymous
March 2, 2005 12:37:22 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Alfred Molon" <DELETEalfred_molon@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1c8ef0eac4d6a71398aa1d@news.supernews.com...
> In article <4224c6f0$0$6199$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosting.com>, Joe
> Cole says...
>
> > This is one major gotcha. I owned a G1, and uses spot metering 80% of
> > the time for portraits. Am thinking of 350D, but without spot metering,
> > what new tricks must I learn to take good pictures?
>
> With non-DLSRs spot metering is easy and cheap to implement because all
> you need to do is read out the central pixels, but with a DSLR it's more
> complicated, as you need a separate sensor (from what I understand)
> which costs money. One more reason to introduce live preview even on
> DSLRs.

And you call Steven a troll. Ironic.

GT
--
"Keep music evil" - Cathal Coughlan
Anonymous
March 2, 2005 10:35:27 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Alfred Molon" <DELETEalfred_molon@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Joe Cole says...
>
> > This is one major gotcha. I owned a G1, and uses spot metering 80% of
> > the time for portraits. Am thinking of 350D, but without spot metering,
> > what new tricks must I learn to take good pictures?

You'll have to learn how to use partial metering or matrix metering. Lots of
people are doing just fine without a spot meter, although it is a serious
irritation.

> With non-DLSRs spot metering is easy and cheap to implement because all
> you need to do is read out the central pixels, but with a DSLR it's more
> complicated, as you need a separate sensor (from what I understand)
> which costs money. One more reason to introduce live preview even on
> DSLRs.

All the other dSLRs have a spot meter: it's not price. Canon doesn't believe
in including a spot meter in low end cameras. The EOS 3 has a spot meter,
but their affordable dSLRs are all based on their very low (Rebel) and low
(EOS 7) end cameras.

Since Canon doesn't (yet) have a midrange dSLR, you have to go to the pro
models to get a spot meter.

David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan
Anonymous
March 2, 2005 1:48:40 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

G.T. wrote:

> "Alfred Molon" <DELETEalfred_molon@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:MPG.1c8ef0eac4d6a71398aa1d@news.supernews.com...
>
>>In article <4224c6f0$0$6199$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosting.com>, Joe
>>Cole says...
>>
>>
>>>This is one major gotcha. I owned a G1, and uses spot metering 80% of
>>>the time for portraits. Am thinking of 350D, but without spot metering,
>>>what new tricks must I learn to take good pictures?
>>
>>With non-DLSRs spot metering is easy and cheap to implement because all
>>you need to do is read out the central pixels, but with a DSLR it's more
>>complicated, as you need a separate sensor (from what I understand)
>>which costs money. One more reason to introduce live preview even on
>>DSLRs.
>
>
> And you call Steven a troll. Ironic.

There's no reason a live preview can't be implemented on a DSLR, and it
appears that the 20Da has just that. It's just another degree of
complexity, and would make the metering more complex in operation for
the photographer. (Am I metering in the VF or on the sensor).

I will bet that the next gen of DSLR's will begin to have preview modes
complete with histos, clip/blocking cues, etc.



--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.
Anonymous
March 2, 2005 11:13:45 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Skip M" <shadowcatcher@cox.net> writes:

> The lack of spot meter kept me out of the DSLR game for a long time, but it
> became apparent that Canon wasn't going to produce a sub $2000 DSLR with it,
> so I relented. I still miss it, to me it was invaluable for portrait work,
> but others seem to have adjusted well, I can, too. In the meantime, I'm
> saving up nickels and dimes for a 1 series body...

I'm thinking of buying a 350D (the price seems right). I'm wondering:
is it possible to come in very close to the subject (making matrix
metering equivalent to spot), read out the exposure reading, then
"fix" them, somehow (even by turning to full manual mode, if necessary)?

i.e. can one read the shutter/aperture the camera intends to use
on this camera? For portraits, this might be a suitable compromise.

--ap
Anonymous
March 2, 2005 11:13:46 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 20:13:45 +1100, Alain Picard
<Alain.Picard@memetrics.com> wrote:

>"Skip M" <shadowcatcher@cox.net> writes:
>
>> The lack of spot meter kept me out of the DSLR game for a long time, but it
>> became apparent that Canon wasn't going to produce a sub $2000 DSLR with it,
>> so I relented. I still miss it, to me it was invaluable for portrait work,
>> but others seem to have adjusted well, I can, too. In the meantime, I'm
>> saving up nickels and dimes for a 1 series body...
>
>I'm thinking of buying a 350D (the price seems right). I'm wondering:
>is it possible to come in very close to the subject (making matrix
>metering equivalent to spot), read out the exposure reading, then
>"fix" them, somehow (even by turning to full manual mode, if necessary)?
>
>i.e. can one read the shutter/aperture the camera intends to use
>on this camera? For portraits, this might be a suitable compromise.

A guess, rather than from experience, but if you're using flash(es), I
could imagine the camera getting things wrong because you're closer to the
subject and the camera will think the strobes will have more effect than
they will from the correct shooting distance. If you're using non-flash
lights, this shouldn't matter, provided you don't block (too much) light as
you move in close to meter.


Regards,
Graham Holden (g-holden AT dircon DOT co DOT uk)
--
There are 10 types of people in the world;
those that understand binary and those that don't.
Anonymous
March 2, 2005 11:13:46 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Alain Picard" <Alain.Picard@memetrics.com> wrote in message
news:878y569zqu.fsf@memetrics.com...
> "Skip M" <shadowcatcher@cox.net> writes:
>
>> The lack of spot meter kept me out of the DSLR game for a long time, but
>> it
>> became apparent that Canon wasn't going to produce a sub $2000 DSLR with
>> it,
>> so I relented. I still miss it, to me it was invaluable for portrait
>> work,
>> but others seem to have adjusted well, I can, too. In the meantime, I'm
>> saving up nickels and dimes for a 1 series body...
>
> I'm thinking of buying a 350D (the price seems right). I'm wondering:
> is it possible to come in very close to the subject (making matrix
> metering equivalent to spot), read out the exposure reading, then
> "fix" them, somehow (even by turning to full manual mode, if necessary)?
>
> i.e. can one read the shutter/aperture the camera intends to use
> on this camera? For portraits, this might be a suitable compromise.
>
> --ap

Yes it is, using the partial spot metering, and linking the AE lock to one
of the buttons on the back so the focus lock and exposure lock are
independent of each other.

--
Skip Middleton
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
March 2, 2005 11:13:46 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Alain Picard wrote:

>> The lack of spot meter kept me out of the DSLR game for a long time, but it
>> became apparent that Canon wasn't going to produce a sub $2000 DSLR with it,
>> so I relented. I still miss it, to me it was invaluable for portrait work,
>> but others seem to have adjusted well, I can, too. In the meantime, I'm
>> saving up nickels and dimes for a 1 series body...
>
>I'm thinking of buying a 350D (the price seems right). I'm wondering:
>is it possible to come in very close to the subject (making matrix
>metering equivalent to spot), read out the exposure reading, then
>"fix" them, somehow (even by turning to full manual mode, if necessary)?

Even though the 350D/XT doesn't have a spot meter, it does have a 9%
partial meter which is effectively a large spot meter. The only
difference between a spot and partial, is the amount of area that is
covered by the meter.

So if you want to spot meter your subject, just use the partial setting
and it will work fine 95% of the time as is. For the few situations that
you need to get a finer meter reading, simply move in a little, use the
AE lock and then recompose the view. No big deal.

>i.e. can one read the shutter/aperture the camera intends to use
>on this camera? For portraits, this might be a suitable compromise.

Yes. The viewfinder has all the typical info like shutter speed,
aperture, focus lock, exposure compensation, etc.

If you want details and images, visit DPReview and select the reviews on
the left side.
Anonymous
March 2, 2005 11:13:46 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 20:13:45 +1100, Alain Picard
<Alain.Picard@memetrics.com> wrote:

>"Skip M" <shadowcatcher@cox.net> writes:
>
>> The lack of spot meter kept me out of the DSLR game for a long time, but it
>> became apparent that Canon wasn't going to produce a sub $2000 DSLR with it,
>> so I relented. I still miss it, to me it was invaluable for portrait work,
>> but others seem to have adjusted well, I can, too. In the meantime, I'm
>> saving up nickels and dimes for a 1 series body...
>
>I'm thinking of buying a 350D (the price seems right). I'm wondering:
>is it possible to come in very close to the subject (making matrix
>metering equivalent to spot), read out the exposure reading, then
>"fix" them, somehow (even by turning to full manual mode, if necessary)?
>
>i.e. can one read the shutter/aperture the camera intends to use
>on this camera? For portraits, this might be a suitable compromise.
>
>--ap
The answer is yes, it shows these in the viewfinder.
http://www.dpreview.com/articles/canoneos350d/page2.asp
Look for "Viewfinder Info".
It's also on the lCD panel on the back.
--
Bill Funk
Change "g" to "a"
Anonymous
March 2, 2005 11:49:10 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

In article <878y569zqu.fsf@memetrics.com>, Alain.Picard@memetrics.com
says...
> I'm thinking of buying a 350D (the price seems right). I'm wondering:
> is it possible to come in very close to the subject (making matrix
> metering equivalent to spot), read out the exposure reading, then
> "fix" them, somehow (even by turning to full manual mode, if necessary)?
>
> i.e. can one read the shutter/aperture the camera intends to use
> on this camera? For portraits, this might be a suitable compromise.

It's a lot easier just to bracket and judge exposure by the histogram.
Then you can set your exposure compensation and shoot away.
--
http://www.pbase.com/bcbaird/
March 3, 2005 5:56:24 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Alan Browne wrote:

>There's no reason a live preview can't be implemented on a DSLR,

As has been mentioned before, the mirror and shutter are in the way of
the sensor. They would have to be moved or modified in order for the
sensor to give a live image.

>appears that the 20Da has just that.

The 20DA has modifications that allows the preview primarily for
astrophotography. The shutter can be held open like bulb mode, and the
mirror is more translucent, allowing more light to transfer to the
sensor. This allows the user to use the LCD to preview shots from the
telescope without having to peek through the viewfinder, which can be a
hassle.

>I will bet that the next gen of DSLR's will begin to have preview modes
>complete with histos, clip/blocking cues, etc.

I don't think most users of DSLR cameras need that info prior to the
shot. If they did, they wouldn't know enough about photography to use a
DSLR. :) 
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 1:02:13 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Bill wrote:

> Alan Browne wrote:
>
>
>>There's no reason a live preview can't be implemented on a DSLR,
>
>
> As has been mentioned before, the mirror and shutter are in the way of
> the sensor. They would have to be moved or modified in order for the
> sensor to give a live image.

Well, duh. (See prior posts). It would be no big deal to implement this.

>
>
>>appears that the 20Da has just that.
>
>
> The 20DA has modifications that allows the preview primarily for
> astrophotography. The shutter can be held open like bulb mode, and the
> mirror is more translucent, allowing more light to transfer to the
> sensor. This allows the user to use the LCD to preview shots from the
> telescope without having to peek through the viewfinder, which can be a
> hassle.

Are you sure about the lens being more translucent? (ref?) Doesn't it
just flip up. As long as you're opening the shutter for this mode
lifting the mirror is no big deal.

>
>
>>I will bet that the next gen of DSLR's will begin to have preview modes
>>complete with histos, clip/blocking cues, etc.
>
>
> I don't think most users of DSLR cameras need that info prior to the
> shot. If they did, they wouldn't know enough about photography to use a
> DSLR. :) 

Were that statement true, there would be no need of a monitor at all on
a DSLR. Just record what's shot and wait until you get back to the
computer. ... like waiting for the film to be processed.

In effect, it is costless to take a shot and examine it, esp. if the
camera provides indications of blocking up and clipping, make
adjustments, delete the test image, and then fire away. OTOH, a mode
for the purpose could lead to faster setup and less file management.

Cheers,
Alan

--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 5:24:46 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

In article <I_idnRp0Mt4s3rrfRVn-rQ@golden.net>, Bill <bill@c.a> wrote:
>Alan Browne wrote:

[ ... ]

>I have a P&S digital camera as well as SLR's, and even though I can view
>with the LCD, I rarely use it that way. The LCD is there to verify
>focus, composure, exposure level, etc., so you don't have to wait to see
>the images on a computer. You can decide if it's a keeper right there.

I have a P&S (Nikon CoolPix 950) in addition to the SLRs and
DSLRs. I find that viewing through the LCD is particularly nice when
you need to get a view somewhere where it would be awkward to place the
camera and yourself in a straight line. An example which came up
recently was under the pedestal of a lathe on which I was working.
(Yes, I had to lay on my back and work overhead -- but there was not
sufficient room for both me and the owner of the lathe to do so at the
same time so I could explain things to him.

Another place where the swivel full-time LCD viewfinder is nice
is when taking photos from within the middle of a crowd. On my old
Miranda F, and on the Nikon F, with a folding viewfinder I could hold
the camera upside down over my head, and compose looking up into the
focusing screen. I cannot do this with either the N90s or the D70,
because the finder is not removable. But the CoolPix 950 allows me to
do this without problems. (Now -- getting quick exposures is a
different matter. :-) Hmm ... for that -- perhaps a remote LCD
viewfinder on a cable so I could look at it more closely would help even
more.

Another place where the swivel viewfinder is nice is when
photographing children at play from a child's view height. Yes, I can
kneel down to do it, but getting back up is more difficult these days. :-)

But I still prefer the D70 for most of what I do.

Enjoy,
DoN.
--
Email: <dnichols@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 5:46:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Brian C. Baird <nospam@please.no> writes:

>
> It's a lot easier just to bracket and judge exposure by the histogram.
> Then you can set your exposure compensation and shoot away.

Ah! Yes, of course. Shows my lack of "digital" experience...
didn't have no histograms on my old Ricoh XR-1. :-)

Thanks! I'm looking forward to using this camera (a lot!)

--
It would be difficult to construe Larry Wall, in article
this as a feature. <1995May29.062427.3640@netlabs.com>
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 5:51:20 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Big Bill <bill@pipping.com> writes:

> The answer is yes, it shows these in the viewfinder.
> http://www.dpreview.com/articles/canoneos350d/page2.asp

Ah yes!. Thank you very much. That's exactly what I was
hoping for.

--
It would be difficult to construe Larry Wall, in article
this as a feature. <1995May29.062427.3640@netlabs.com>
!