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The 28nm Northern Islands?

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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February 11, 2011 6:03:53 AM

The 40nm Radeon HD 6xxx "Southern Island" GPU family are not significantly faster than the HD 5xxx series, maybe 25% faster at most. The big boost won't be until late this year when the 28nm "Northern Islands" come out, which be be a radically different microarchitecture promising HUGE performance gains over the preceding ATI GPU families. How come I haven't heard anything about the 28nm Northern Islands?

The current fastest single GPU is the GeForce GTX 580, which is about roughly 40-50% faster than ATI's flagship card. Despite high power consumption and overheating.

Is there any information about the 28nm Radeon cards available yet? Will they be branded the HD 7xxx series? Nvidia has already announced "Maxwell" and "Kepler' for their future generations of graphics cards. These cards are rumored to have roughly several times the performance of the current Fermi's. But those cards are still a few years wait.

I don't know how much longer Moore's law will hold out. Hardware makers will have to think of something revolutionary if they want to continue making their products faster, more powerful, and more efficient. Electronic engineers are struggling to make 28nm chips.

I heard a rumor on the front page of Tom's Hardware that ATI was going out of business. Is this really true? Who will Nvidia compete with?

More about : 28nm northern islands

a c 126 U Graphics card
February 11, 2011 6:21:20 AM

The GTX580 overheats... does it? And its 40-50% faster than a HD6970? don't think so...

You may have seen the nVidia slide that says something like 3.5 x the performance per watt. That means very little, the new cards could have the same performance but use 3.5 x less power. Or be 3.5 x faster using the same amount of power of current gen cards (unlikely)....

Are you a Electronic engineer?
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a c 130 U Graphics card
February 11, 2011 7:10:28 AM

Its a bit early to start worrying about these cards yet most every thing you hear or that gets reported will still be subject to change at this point.
The 40nm Radeon HD 6xxx cards are a compromise of what they wanted to do at 32nm and what was possible at 40nm. The 32nm process got canned so they basically did the best they could with what they had.
Hopefully the new cards that will be made at 28nm wont get any of these issues and all the planned improvements can be realised this time around.

Mactronix :) 
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a b U Graphics card
February 11, 2011 8:57:08 AM

ambam said:
The 40nm Radeon HD 6xxx "Southern Island" GPU family are not significantly faster than the HD 5xxx series, maybe 25% faster at most. The big boost won't be until late this year when the 28nm "Northern Islands" come out, which be be a radically different microarchitecture promising HUGE performance gains over the preceding ATI GPU families. How come I haven't heard anything about the 28nm Northern Islands?


Because the Southern Islands have only been recently released, and the 6970 has barely penetrated the market (it has been out for more than 6 months). We'd probably know more a few months down the line, when they find it necessary to compete with nVidia.

ambam said:
The current fastest single GPU is the GeForce GTX 580, which is about roughly 40-50% faster than ATI's flagship card. Despite high power consumption and overheating.

No Maybe if you're only looking at Tessellation scores, but for games the margin is small enough. With the current GTX 580, there really isn't a compelling reason to immediately take out Southern Islands.

ambam said:
Is there any information about the 28nm Radeon cards available yet? Will they be branded the HD 7xxx series? Nvidia has already announced "Maxwell" and "Kepler' for their future generations of graphics cards. These cards are rumored to have roughly several times the performance of the current Fermi's. But those cards are still a few years wait.


So, they announced something but there is still no product, big whoop. Until there are architectural details, technical specifications, photos, etc., the announcement doesn't matter. There is still no product

ambam said:
I don't know how much longer Moore's law will hold out. Hardware makers will have to think of something revolutionary if they want to continue making their products faster, more powerful, and more efficient. Electronic engineers are struggling to make 28nm chips.


Why do you think that engineers are having a hard time? The usual benchmark when it comes to manufacturing process is Intel, if they don't have it others usually won't. I believe they were the first to a commercial 65nm production line, then they were the ones with the 45nm that actually could produce in volume. TSMC was able to produce 45nm's first, but they were plagued with production issues.

At the current rate, everything is still on track.

ambam said:
I heard a rumor on the front page of Tom's Hardware that ATI was going out of business. Is this really true? Who will Nvidia compete with?


NO The ATi name is going away, and would be branded under AMD. It's no longer ATi Radeon, but AMD Radeon.
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a c 130 U Graphics card
February 11, 2011 9:34:58 AM

@ amnotanoobie

Ok well that reads like a Pro AMD/ATI rant to me, if not then you still have a few facts you need straightening out on.
The 6970 competes where it does because as i have said its the best AMD could do with the mess that was the loss of the 32nm process. There is a dual card coming so better performance is around the corner and its coming in the first or second week of March, at the moment, these things are changed quite often.
6 Months is plenty of time to see if a product is successful or not and its a decided Meh fo Caymen.

The 5850 is the fastest single GPU gaming or otherwise, by nowhere near the margins suggested but it is still the fastest single GPU solution.

Calm down its only a question, anyway the "southern islands" cards are more in need of an upgrade than the Nvidia 5 series at this point. Of course it wont come soon as Nvidia seem to have the market cornered in killing one product line for another, its not something AMD would do but then no one suggested they should as far as i can see.

Your last two points I agree on.

Mactronix :) 
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a b U Graphics card
February 11, 2011 1:04:57 PM

5850 is the fastest single GPU? GTX 580? Radeon 6970? How about the 5870 from its own line that trumps it? What are you talking about?

Along that line--what is this post about? The OP threw out a bunch of random thoughts that were inaccurate. GTX 580 50% faster than a 5970? Ha! Have you ever looked at benchmarks?
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a b U Graphics card
February 11, 2011 2:52:57 PM

yeah what are you talking about 5850? perhaps you mean the gtx 580? Or maybe its 2009 again...?
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a c 130 U Graphics card
February 11, 2011 5:35:07 PM

:lol:  I didnt notice :pt1cable: 
Its called a typo guys I actually posted that while still wipeing the sleep out of my eyes of course I meant GTX 580, I was just previously posting about the 5850 and the two crossed over in my half asleep brain.
Sorry for the confusion.

Mactronix :) 
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a b U Graphics card
February 11, 2011 6:47:51 PM

right on, figured it was a typo just poking a little fun, how does the op come up with "the gtx 580 is 40-50% faster than amds flagship card (the 6970) (if he is talking about single chip cards) the 580 is certainly faster then the 6970 but not by that large of a margin how do you describe this?
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a c 130 U Graphics card
February 11, 2011 6:53:23 PM

I figured it was just quoted from some hype post/report or some such found on teh web and taken as fact ?

Mactronix :) 
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a b U Graphics card
February 11, 2011 7:00:55 PM

besides the OPs expectations being a bit off, I guess, what is the op worried or concerned about, 28mm is still a bit off and currently there are many gpu muscles that can be had on a larger manufacturing process... I don't know just seems a bit pointless to think about now until, like many already said, we have an actual protype or some kind of specs that we can analyze
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a c 130 U Graphics card
February 11, 2011 7:16:24 PM

Personally I get the feeling that people are looking at newer processes and Archetectures hopeing that maybe this time they will get something that performs at a good Power/Perf/Price ratio. Or that it will mean price drops for the older cards.
Lets face it Graphically unless your running above full HD resolution you dont need more than is already available and the Technology/DX isnt changing anytime soon so whats to want except better cheaper cards .
Just my thoughts on it.

Mactronix :) 
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a b U Graphics card
February 11, 2011 7:23:51 PM

"...maybe 25% faster at most..."

That is hilarious... That is a HUGE step up in performance thanks to just an arch optimization in the same process. AMD/ATI really did a great job with the 6k series, plus adding a few goodies while we wait for the 28nm chips.

And nVidia did the same, but with a lot more cards between (original 100 Fermi to the 110) if I count correctly. Also, I think AMD got a lot more from their optimization; not sure there though.

Cheers!
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a b U Graphics card
February 11, 2011 8:35:34 PM

only if "overheating" would mean running the gpu in the heat envelope that it was designed to run in...
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a c 126 U Graphics card
February 11, 2011 8:36:55 PM

Quote:
Since when?


Yeah mystery to me to. Thats why I put "The GTX580 overheats... does it?"
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a c 107 U Graphics card
February 11, 2011 8:57:46 PM

I smell trollin
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a b U Graphics card
February 11, 2011 10:37:45 PM

you would think a "regular" would be reputable enough to post a valid thread comment...!>!>!?
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a b U Graphics card
February 11, 2011 11:04:19 PM

28nmFAIL!
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a b U Graphics card
February 11, 2011 11:31:26 PM

My questions is we will see a new architecture to go along with the 28nm? Anything rumored or on the horizon that anybody has heard of?
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a c 130 U Graphics card
February 12, 2011 8:59:33 AM

Yuka said:
"...maybe 25% faster at most..."

That is hilarious... That is a HUGE step up in performance thanks to just an arch optimization in the same process. AMD/ATI really did a great job with the 6k series, plus adding a few goodies while we wait for the 28nm chips.

And nVidia did the same, but with a lot more cards between (original 100 Fermi to the 110) if I count correctly. Also, I think AMD got a lot more from their optimization; not sure there though.

Cheers!


Funny but I thought smaller die and more shaders was the way to go not bigger die less shaders :heink: 
Sure it got about 10% more performance over Cypress but thats a fail as far as I am concerned.
The only saving grace is that these chips are nothing like what they were meant to be so we can expect a 4 series to 5 series type jump when and if 28nm cards get here.

Mactronix :) 
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