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Nikon D50 in the works, D200 a hoax

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Anonymous
February 19, 2005 7:11:11 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Someone posted a photo and specs of what was supposed to be a leaked D200
from Nikon. I just checked the US Patent and Trademark Office for "D200" and
nothing came up.

However.... <grin>

Nikon *did* file a TM for the D50 logo on Feb 8, 2005.

See for yourself:

http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=1b3qt5...

I looked at the recent TM filings by Nikon and only found the D50, so it is
unlikely that any other DSLR will be announced any time soon.

http://makeashorterlink.com/?O2EF1248A

I'm confused as to why they would work on a scaled-down D70 before a much
needed upgrade to the D100.
Anonymous
February 19, 2005 7:11:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

True211 wrote:
>
> Someone posted a photo and specs of what was supposed to be a leaked D200
> from Nikon. I just checked the US Patent and Trademark Office for "D200" and
> nothing came up.
>
> However.... <grin>
>
> Nikon *did* file a TM for the D50 logo on Feb 8, 2005.
>
> See for yourself:
>
> http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=1b3qt5...

Indeed, let me though quote it becuase the above URL leads
to expired session only:

[...
Word Mark D50
Goods and Services IC 009. US 021 023 026 036 038. G & S: Cameras
Standard Characters Claimed
Mark Drawing Code (4) STANDARD CHARACTER MARK
Serial Number 78562983
Filing Date February 8, 2005
Current Filing Basis 1B
Original Filing Basis 1B
Owner (APPLICANT) NIKON CORPORATION CORPORATION JAPAN 2-3, Marunouchi 3-chome, Chiyoda-ku Tokyo JAPAN
Attorney of Record Mark I. Peroff
Type of Mark TRADEMARK
Register PRINCIPAL
Live/Dead Indicator LIVE
....]


>
> I looked at the recent TM filings by Nikon and only found the D50, so it is
> unlikely that any other DSLR will be announced any time soon.

Canon did the same with their 350D!

Thomas

>
> http://makeashorterlink.com/?O2EF1248A
>
> I'm confused as to why they would work on a scaled-down D70 before a much
> needed upgrade to the D100.
February 19, 2005 7:11:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"True211" <true211@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:37po9dF5fc6lqU1@individual.net...
> Someone posted a photo and specs of what was supposed to be a leaked D200
> from Nikon. I just checked the US Patent and Trademark Office for "D200"
and
> nothing came up.
>
> However.... <grin>
>
> Nikon *did* file a TM for the D50 logo on Feb 8, 2005.
>
> See for yourself:
>
> http://www.uspto.gov

The Trademark doesn't have to be filed in the USA. Filing a Trademark in
Japan would still be a protected TM under International Law. They can file
for a USA one at a later date.
Related resources
Anonymous
February 19, 2005 7:20:53 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Saturday 19 February 2005 13:11, True211 wrote:

> Someone posted a photo and specs of what was supposed to be a leaked
> D200 from Nikon. I just checked the US Patent and Trademark Office for
> "D200" and nothing came up.
>
> However.... <grin>
>
> Nikon *did* file a TM for the D50 logo on Feb 8, 2005.
>
> See for yourself:
>
> http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=1b3qt5...
>
> I looked at the recent TM filings by Nikon and only found the D50, so
> it is unlikely that any other DSLR will be announced any time soon.
>
> http://makeashorterlink.com/?O2EF1248A
>
> I'm confused as to why they would work on a scaled-down D70 before a
> much needed upgrade to the D100.

Same reason 40 years ago they came out with the Nikkormat F, a poorman's
Nikon FTn, more or less. And same reason since then that they've come
out with a scaled down version (featurewise) of top-of-the-line
professional models: To sell to the amateurs, who want a Nikon, but
won't (or can't) pay the dollars for the pro models.

--
Stefan Patric
NoLife Polymath Group
tootek2@yahoo.com
Anonymous
February 19, 2005 9:27:28 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 16:11:11 -0500, "True211" <true211@gmail.com>
wrote:

>I'm confused as to why they would work on a scaled-down D70 before a much
>needed upgrade to the D100.

It's like a loss leader in the supermarket. If you can get someone to
buy the starter camera and invest in a few more lenses, you can keep
them as a customer for the rest of their lives. So Nikon may come out
with something even cheaper than the 300D.
Anonymous
February 19, 2005 9:27:29 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

> McLeod <cerdeza@xplornet.com> wrote:

> If you can get someone to buy the starter camera and
> invest in a few more lenses, you can keep them as a
> customer for the rest of their lives. So Nikon may
> come out with something even cheaper than the 300D.

The lock-in, of course, only works for people who upgrade
bodies more often than the maker rolls lens generations.
Alternatively, the maker can avoid unwise decisions about
supporting legacy lens mounts.

My DSLR was funded by selling of my collection of Canon
A-1 and FD (mostly newFD) stuff. Because Canon deliberately
designed the EF mount so that FD glass could not be made
100% adaptable to EOS cams, the loyalty factor was shot.

Indeed, after dumping the lot on eBay, I was ready to try
switching to Nikon or any of several other brands. Had
the D70 been ready, I might be a Nikon user today.

Another factor is "a few more lenses". For many entry-level
SLR/DSLR users, they never own more than the kit lens the
cam came with. Lens lock-in never takes root at all.

--
Regards, Bob Niland mailto:name@ispname.tld
http://www.access-one.com/rjn email4rjn AT yahoo DOT com
NOT speaking for any employer, client or Internet Service Provider.
Anonymous
February 20, 2005 2:39:50 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Hi Sheldon,

Sheldon wrote:
> But, some of the most successful companies don't sit at the forefront
of
> technology. They take a wait/see and then stomp the competition,
which is
> exactly what Nikon did with the D70. And most people are extremely
loyal to
> Nikon or Canon. They will wait for the Nikon, rather than switch to
a new
> standard.

especially when "new standard" means that you get every half year an
immature, error pledged camera. Take the 20D. Brand new camera, brand
new battery grip. Both need to be sent to canon for a fix which takes
weeks. Or look at the rate firmware updates arrive - I rather wait a
bit longer but then get mature, usable and dependable equipment.

How many firmware updates are about for the 20D, available for 3
months, and how many for the D70? I rather make pictures than firmware
downloads (and of course a new firmware only fixes pictures made
afterwards, and a camera in warranty repair makes the worst possible
pictures - none)

Benedikt
Anonymous
February 20, 2005 2:42:39 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Hi Bill,

Woodchuck Bill wrote:
> To confuse the hell out of first-time dSLR buyers like myself. I was
> set on the D70...then Canon had to drop the XT bomb and now Nikon is
> hitting us with this small silver bullet.

if you want a camera now and can afford one that is on the market, get
it. There will always be an annouced camera the might be better. And
buing a camera that is on the market for some time has the advantage
taht other did the beta-testing for you (well, the canons seem to be
dissapear once the beta testin pahse if doen ...)
Anonymous
February 20, 2005 3:35:45 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Bob Niland" <email4rjn@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:o psmgxhasift8z8r@news.individual.net...

> The lock-in, of course, only works for people who upgrade
> bodies more often than the maker rolls lens generations.
> Alternatively, the maker can avoid unwise decisions about
> supporting legacy lens mounts.

Rolling of lens generations is pretty rare.

> My DSLR was funded by selling of my collection of Canon
> A-1 and FD (mostly newFD) stuff. Because Canon deliberately
> designed the EF mount so that FD glass could not be made
> 100% adaptable to EOS cams, the loyalty factor was shot.

The FD mount couldn't take Canon into the professional film market, and an
adapter for manual mode was as far as they could go for adaptability. You
make it sound as if it would have been easy to get full compatibility
between FD lenses and EOS bodies. The FD stuff didn't stop working with FD
bodies simply because the EOS system was introduced. Getting mad because a
company comes out with new products that don't work with their old products,
is ridiculous.

Nikon has retained the F mount but not all older F mount lenses work on
newer F mount bodies. And the F mount has a lot of baggage that is hurting
Nikon right now. Because of the back focus distance, they can't do something
similar to what Canon did with the EF-s lenses, to compensate for the crop
factor. Nikon is eventually going to have to replace the F mount, then
you'll hear some serious screaming.

> Another factor is "a few more lenses". For many entry-level
> SLR/DSLR users, they never own more than the kit lens the
> cam came with. Lens lock-in never takes root at all.

Many never get any more lenses, but I think a lot do get at least a
telephoto.
Anonymous
February 20, 2005 3:35:46 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Steven M. Scharf" <scharf.steven@linkearth.net> wrote in message
news:BXQRd.6147$x53.1233@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> "Bob Niland" <email4rjn@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:o psmgxhasift8z8r@news.individual.net...
>
>> The lock-in, of course, only works for people who upgrade
>> bodies more often than the maker rolls lens generations.
>> Alternatively, the maker can avoid unwise decisions about
>> supporting legacy lens mounts.
>
> Rolling of lens generations is pretty rare.
>
>> My DSLR was funded by selling of my collection of Canon
>> A-1 and FD (mostly newFD) stuff. Because Canon deliberately
>> designed the EF mount so that FD glass could not be made
>> 100% adaptable to EOS cams, the loyalty factor was shot.
>
> The FD mount couldn't take Canon into the professional film market, and an
> adapter for manual mode was as far as they could go for adaptability. You
> make it sound as if it would have been easy to get full compatibility
> between FD lenses and EOS bodies. The FD stuff didn't stop working with FD
> bodies simply because the EOS system was introduced. Getting mad because a
> company comes out with new products that don't work with their old
> products,
> is ridiculous.
>
> Nikon has retained the F mount but not all older F mount lenses work on
> newer F mount bodies. And the F mount has a lot of baggage that is hurting
> Nikon right now. Because of the back focus distance, they can't do
> something
> similar to what Canon did with the EF-s lenses, to compensate for the crop
> factor. Nikon is eventually going to have to replace the F mount, then
> you'll hear some serious screaming.
>
>> Another factor is "a few more lenses". For many entry-level
>> SLR/DSLR users, they never own more than the kit lens the
>> cam came with. Lens lock-in never takes root at all.
>
> Many never get any more lenses, but I think a lot do get at least a
> telephoto.

IMHO if the lens comes off your camera and can be replaced by another,
you're now hooked. You will buy more lenses, at least that other cheap G
lens if you have a D70, and may keep your old body to use as a second body.
I think that's what some pros have done with the D70. When I worked
professionally I always had two cameras around my neck.
Anonymous
February 20, 2005 3:35:47 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Sheldon" <sheldon@XXXXXXXXsopris.net> wrote in message
news:spGdnb9wtfASfIrfRVn-pQ@comcast.com...
<snip>
> IMHO if the lens comes off your camera and can be replaced by another,
> you're now hooked. You will buy more lenses, at least that other cheap G
> lens if you have a D70, and may keep your old body to use as a second
> body. I think that's what some pros have done with the D70. When I worked
> professionally I always had two cameras around my neck.
>

Just curious, are you unclear on what the G means? They're not consumer
lenses across the board. Some are, some are not. The G indicates it doesn't
have an aperture ring, not the quality if the lens.

For example, the 70-200 f/2.8 VR lens is a G lens. Do you consider it a
consumer lens?

I see this misconception repeatedly posted here.

Tom
Anonymous
February 20, 2005 3:35:48 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Tom Scales" <tomtoo@softhome.net> wrote in message
news:%%RRd.5639$u87.4908@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
>
> "Sheldon" <sheldon@XXXXXXXXsopris.net> wrote in message
> news:spGdnb9wtfASfIrfRVn-pQ@comcast.com...
> <snip>
>> IMHO if the lens comes off your camera and can be replaced by another,
>> you're now hooked. You will buy more lenses, at least that other cheap G
>> lens if you have a D70, and may keep your old body to use as a second
>> body. I think that's what some pros have done with the D70. When I
>> worked professionally I always had two cameras around my neck.
>>
>
> Just curious, are you unclear on what the G means? They're not consumer
> lenses across the board. Some are, some are not. The G indicates it
> doesn't have an aperture ring, not the quality if the lens.
>
> For example, the 70-200 f/2.8 VR lens is a G lens. Do you consider it a
> consumer lens?
>
> I see this misconception repeatedly posted here.
>

I was actually referring to that $100 zoom lens that picks up where the kit
lens leaves off. You are correct, and sorry if I mislead anybody.
Personally, I have a gaggle of Nikon lenses that go back to my old F, which
is the reason I chose a Nikon DSLR over the Olympus or the Canon. I know
there have been a lot of opinions on Nikon hanging onto that old lens
mount, but I think that's been a smart marketing move on their part. I
mean, I can still use 30 year old lenses that were great, and still are
great, on a new camera with digital technology. Pretty cool, IMO.

Sheldon
February 20, 2005 3:35:49 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Sheldon" <sheldon@XXXXXXXXsopris.net> wrote in message
news:88ednbBAjZ1UYorfRVn-iA@comcast.com...
>
>
> I was actually referring to that $100 zoom lens that picks up where the
kit
> lens leaves off. You are correct, and sorry if I mislead anybody.
> Personally, I have a gaggle of Nikon lenses that go back to my old F,
which
> is the reason I chose a Nikon DSLR over the Olympus or the Canon. I know
> there have been a lot of opinions on Nikon hanging onto that old lens
> mount, but I think that's been a smart marketing move on their part. I
> mean, I can still use 30 year old lenses that were great, and still are
> great, on a new camera with digital technology. Pretty cool, IMO.
>
> Sheldon
>
>

I agree that it was smart marketing. Every Nikon lens I own (about a dozen
and
going back to 1973) will work on my D70 and every Nikon lens I own, except
the
18-70 AF-D G DX, will work with every Nikon body I own (6, spanning 32
years).
Limitations? Yes. Just having an AF film or digital body didn't magically
transform
any of my MF lenses into AF...the only (slightly) annoying limitation is the
lack of
metering on the D70 with my oldest lenses...but that is pretty minor IMHO.
This
is pretty nice to have the luxury of using old lenses for infrequently used
focal lengths.

George
Anonymous
February 20, 2005 3:42:04 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"True211" <true211@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:37po9dF5fc6lqU1@individual.net...

> I'm confused as to why they would work on a scaled-down D70 before a much
> needed upgrade to the D100.

They must be working on both, as well as a full frame professional model.
They want to compete in every segment of the Digital SLR market. Nikon's
problem is that they are behind Canon in sensor development, and sensor
development is difficult and time consuming.

Entry level: _______, Digital Rebel
Consumer Level: D70, Digital Rebel XT
Prosumer Level: _______, 20D
Semi-Pro: D2x, 1D Mark II
Pro: ________, 1Ds Mark II
Anonymous
February 20, 2005 3:42:05 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Steven M. Scharf" <scharf.steven@linkearth.net> wrote in message
news:w1RRd.6153$x53.1705@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> "True211" <true211@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:37po9dF5fc6lqU1@individual.net...
>
>> I'm confused as to why they would work on a scaled-down D70 before a much
>> needed upgrade to the D100.
>
> They must be working on both, as well as a full frame professional model.
> They want to compete in every segment of the Digital SLR market. Nikon's
> problem is that they are behind Canon in sensor development, and sensor
> development is difficult and time consuming.

But, some of the most successful companies don't sit at the forefront of
technology. They take a wait/see and then stomp the competition, which is
exactly what Nikon did with the D70. And most people are extremely loyal to
Nikon or Canon. They will wait for the Nikon, rather than switch to a new
standard.
Anonymous
February 20, 2005 3:42:06 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Sheldon" <sheldon@XXXXXXXXsopris.net> wrote in message
news:spGdnb5wtfASfIrfRVn-pQ@comcast.com...
>
>
> But, some of the most successful companies don't sit at the forefront of
> technology.

Near as I can tell, Nikon has never tried to be on "the bleeding edge" of
technology. They had a reputation for conservatism clear back in the '60s.
Let all those other guys try out new-fangled ideas like TTL metering,
auto-focus, etc. Then pick the best ideas and make them bulletproof. Come to
think of it, Canon really does a lot of the same thing. I am hard pressed to
think of any technology that was first introduced by either Nikon or Canon.
Anonymous
February 20, 2005 3:42:07 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

In article <mtKdndQhiMV0qoXfRVn-1Q@wavecable.com>,
"C J Campbell" <christophercampbellNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote:

> "Sheldon" <sheldon@XXXXXXXXsopris.net> wrote in message
> news:spGdnb5wtfASfIrfRVn-pQ@comcast.com...
> >
> >
> > But, some of the most successful companies don't sit at the forefront of
> > technology.
>
> Near as I can tell, Nikon has never tried to be on "the bleeding edge" of
> technology. They had a reputation for conservatism clear back in the '60s.
> Let all those other guys try out new-fangled ideas like TTL metering,
> auto-focus, etc. Then pick the best ideas and make them bulletproof. Come to
> think of it, Canon really does a lot of the same thing. I am hard pressed to
> think of any technology that was first introduced by either Nikon or Canon.

I think Canon is the first to sell astrophotography versions of
pro/consumer digicams.
February 20, 2005 3:42:07 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"C J Campbell" <christophercampbellNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:mtKdndQhiMV0qoXfRVn-1Q@wavecable.com...
>
> "Sheldon" <sheldon@XXXXXXXXsopris.net> wrote in message
> news:spGdnb5wtfASfIrfRVn-pQ@comcast.com...
> >
> >
> > But, some of the most successful companies don't sit at the forefront of
> > technology.
>
> Near as I can tell, Nikon has never tried to be on "the bleeding edge" of
> technology. They had a reputation for conservatism clear back in the '60s.
> Let all those other guys try out new-fangled ideas like TTL metering,
> auto-focus, etc. Then pick the best ideas and make them bulletproof. Come
to
> think of it, Canon really does a lot of the same thing. I am hard pressed
to
> think of any technology that was first introduced by either Nikon or
Canon.
>
Odd how the D200 was competitive to the D30, D60, 10D... So now Canon is on
their 6th generation of dSLR during the life-time of the D100. Will there be
a D200, YES! But it may not be called a D200. What if Nikon, tongue-in-cheek
called it the D100 mk.II, AFAIK you can't trademark "mk.II"

As for your other point, the technology often was developed by others. First
OTF metering, was Olympus OM-2. Multi-Coated lenses Asahi/Zeiss co-venture
in the form of Super Multi Coating/T*
February 20, 2005 3:42:08 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Kevin McMurtrie" <mcmurtri@dslextreme.com> wrote in message
news:mcmurtri-9332B2.23325119022005@corp-radius.supernews.com...
> In article <mtKdndQhiMV0qoXfRVn-1Q@wavecable.com>,
> "C J Campbell" <christophercampbellNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > "Sheldon" <sheldon@XXXXXXXXsopris.net> wrote in message
> > news:spGdnb5wtfASfIrfRVn-pQ@comcast.com...
> > >
> > >
> > > But, some of the most successful companies don't sit at the forefront
of
> > > technology.
> >
> > Near as I can tell, Nikon has never tried to be on "the bleeding edge"
of
> > technology. They had a reputation for conservatism clear back in the
'60s.
> > Let all those other guys try out new-fangled ideas like TTL metering,
> > auto-focus, etc. Then pick the best ideas and make them bulletproof.
Come to
> > think of it, Canon really does a lot of the same thing. I am hard
pressed to
> > think of any technology that was first introduced by either Nikon or
Canon.
>
> I think Canon is the first to sell astrophotography versions of
> pro/consumer digicams.

How many of the 20Da will actually be produced, and at what cost?
Anonymous
February 20, 2005 5:13:50 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"True211" <true211@gmail.com> wrote in
news:37po9dF5fc6lqU1@individual.net:

> Nikon *did* file a TM for the D50 logo on Feb 8, 2005.

That makes sense. I've been reading rumors like crazy about this
camera...and I've seen some of the prototype pics too.

For example, here is one of the pics-

http://www.2and2.net/Uploads/Images/d50.jpg

> I'm confused as to why they would work on a scaled-down D70 before
> a much needed upgrade to the D100.

To confuse the hell out of first-time dSLR buyers like myself. I was
set on the D70...then Canon had to drop the XT bomb and now Nikon is
hitting us with this small silver bullet.

--

Bill
Anonymous
February 20, 2005 8:44:17 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 16:11:11 -0500, "True211" <true211@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Someone posted a photo and specs of what was supposed to be a leaked D200
>from Nikon. I just checked the US Patent and Trademark Office for "D200" and
>nothing came up.
>
>However.... <grin>
>
>Nikon *did* file a TM for the D50 logo on Feb 8, 2005.
>
>See for yourself:
>
>http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=1b3qt5...
>
>I looked at the recent TM filings by Nikon and only found the D50, so it is
>unlikely that any other DSLR will be announced any time soon.

If I were Nikon and wanted to keep a D100 replacement secret, what I'd
do would be to register the D200 name in Japan and use a red herring
like registering a D50 in the United States to throw off the folks who
think the USA is the center of the universe.

Nikon has previously registered trademarks in the US *after* the
introduction of the product, so lack thereof doesn't mean much.

Would be nice to see a $599 D50, though.
-------------------------------------
Everything I know, and then some:
http://www.auctionmyths.com
February 20, 2005 8:44:18 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Dave Busch" <moc.seimmud4latigid@eriafresal> wrote in message
news:q89g115753pcjeibhqo3sn1nisfh9glt0v@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 16:11:11 -0500, "True211" <true211@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Someone posted a photo and specs of what was supposed to be a leaked D200
> >from Nikon. I just checked the US Patent and Trademark Office for "D200"
and
> >nothing came up.
> >
> >However.... <grin>
> >
> >Nikon *did* file a TM for the D50 logo on Feb 8, 2005.
> >
> >See for yourself:
> >
> >http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=1b3qt5...
> >
> >I looked at the recent TM filings by Nikon and only found the D50, so it
is
> >unlikely that any other DSLR will be announced any time soon.
>
> If I were Nikon and wanted to keep a D100 replacement secret, what I'd
> do would be to register the D200 name in Japan and use a red herring
> like registering a D50 in the United States to throw off the folks who
> think the USA is the center of the universe.
>
> Nikon has previously registered trademarks in the US *after* the
> introduction of the product, so lack thereof doesn't mean much.
>
> Would be nice to see a $599 D50, though.
>
Even if it's based on the F55 shell, like the current hoax on dpreview.com?
I love that one, the Photoshop artist left the door release visible in the
front view. Good for him that there was no top view.

;) 
Anonymous
February 20, 2005 9:45:27 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Kevin McMurtrie" <mcmurtri@dslextreme.com> wrote in message
news:mcmurtri-9332B2.23325119022005@corp-radius.supernews.com...
> >
> > Near as I can tell, Nikon has never tried to be on "the bleeding edge"
of
> > technology. They had a reputation for conservatism clear back in the
'60s.
> > Let all those other guys try out new-fangled ideas like TTL metering,
> > auto-focus, etc. Then pick the best ideas and make them bulletproof.
Come to
> > think of it, Canon really does a lot of the same thing. I am hard
pressed to
> > think of any technology that was first introduced by either Nikon or
Canon.
>
> I think Canon is the first to sell astrophotography versions of
> pro/consumer digicams.

Well, if you mean the 20Da they are not selling them yet! :-) I am really
surprised that Minolta did not get into this market first.
Anonymous
February 20, 2005 12:33:33 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Nikon's soon == in 1 < month < 12 :) 

=bob=

"True211" <true211@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:37po9dF5fc6lqU1@individual.net...
> Someone posted a photo and specs of what was supposed to be a leaked D200
> from Nikon. I just checked the US Patent and Trademark Office for "D200"
> and
> nothing came up.
>
> However.... <grin>
>
> Nikon *did* file a TM for the D50 logo on Feb 8, 2005.
>
> See for yourself:
>
> http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=1b3qt5...
>
> I looked at the recent TM filings by Nikon and only found the D50, so it
> is
> unlikely that any other DSLR will be announced any time soon.
>
> http://makeashorterlink.com/?O2EF1248A
>
> I'm confused as to why they would work on a scaled-down D70 before a much
> needed upgrade to the D100.
>
>
Anonymous
February 20, 2005 1:55:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

C J Campbell wrote:


>
> Well, if you mean the 20Da they are not selling them yet! :-) I am really
> surprised that Minolta did not get into this market first.

Minolta use CCD sensors, uncooled of course, so not a good 'sell' for astro.


--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.
February 20, 2005 1:55:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Alan Browne" <alan.browne@FreeLunchVideotron.ca> wrote in message
news:Lp2Sd.2767$K45.109915@wagner.videotron.net...
> C J Campbell wrote:
>
>
> >
> > Well, if you mean the 20Da they are not selling them yet! :-) I am
really
> > surprised that Minolta did not get into this market first.
>
> Minolta use CCD sensors, uncooled of course, so not a good 'sell' for
astro.
>
Maybe the next model will have a CMOS?
Anonymous
February 20, 2005 4:26:55 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Benedikt Schenker wrote:
>
> Hi Sheldon,
>
> Sheldon wrote:
> > But, some of the most successful companies don't sit at the forefront of
> > technology. They take a wait/see and then stomp the competition, which is
> > exactly what Nikon did with the D70. And most people are extremely loyal to
> > Nikon or Canon. They will wait for the Nikon, rather than switch to a new
> > standard.
>
> especially when "new standard" means that you get every half year an
> immature, error pledged camera. Take the 20D. Brand new camera, brand
> new battery grip. Both need to be sent to canon for a fix which takes
> weeks. Or look at the rate firmware updates arrive - I rather wait a
> bit longer but then get mature, usable and dependable equipment.
>
> How many firmware updates are about for the 20D, available for 3
> months, and how many for the D70? I rather make pictures than firmware
> downloads (and of course a new firmware only fixes pictures made
> afterwards, and a camera in warranty repair makes the worst possible
> pictures - none)


I have also made negative experiences with EOS-20D software.

I have Dr.Watson crashes recorded, garbled images on the screen,
inability to access the CF card from the camera without excessive
TAWIN software installations for no apparent reason. I tested
this stuff on 3 computers (W98se, WinME and W2000,) each of them
'did' a different part of a task for me, and failed in other
parts. Horrible.

I will make a write-up of my communications with Canon US
support and post images of troubles with Canon software.

Canon is faster in producing cameras, and their CMOS sensor
is sure best of the best. But they often do so many untested
steps and they devalue their own equipment in a rapid cycle.

For a pro this might be within of the range of a write off,
for an amateur this means often trouble and loss of investment
value. For example I will get rid of the S9000 printer. It
sells on Ebay for $10-$20 +shipment. A total loss of value,
purchases recently for $450 approx, prints on glossy Photo
Paper Plus fade away faster than you can think.

Thomas


>
> Benedikt

Dr.Watson crash dump of EosViewer:

[...
*----> Details <----*

Command line: "E:\Foto\Canon\EOSViewerUtility\EosViewer.exe"

Trap 0e 0000 - Invalid page fault
eax=00000002 ebx=00000000 ecx=017919a0 edx=00000000 esi=017906a0 edi=017919a0
eip=004360d2 esp=0071f4b0 ebp=00000001 -- -- -- nv up EI pl nz na po nc
cs=018f ss=0197 ds=0197 es=0197 fs=1907 gs=0000
EOSVIEWER.EXE:.text+0x350d2:
>018f:004360d2 8b5b34 mov ebx,dword ptr [ebx+34]

sel type base lim/bot
---- ---- -------- --------
cs 018f r-x- 00000000 ffffffff
ss 0197 rw-e 00000000 0000e7a0
ds 0197 rw-e 00000000 0000e7a0
es 0197 rw-e 00000000 0000e7a0
fs 1907 rw-- 81ba118c 00000037
gs 0000 ----

stack base: 00620000
TIB limits: 00719000 - 00720000

-- exception record --

Exception Code: c0000005 (access violation)
Exception Address: 004360d2 (EOSVIEWER.EXE:.text+0x350d2)
Exception Info: 00000000
ffffffff

EOSVIEWER.EXE:.text+0x350d2:
>018f:004360d2 8b5b34 mov ebx,dword ptr [ebx+34]
018f:004360a8 8bcf mov ecx,edi
018f:004360aa e881030000 call 00436430 = EOSVIEWER.EXE:.text+0x35430
018f:004360af 8bcf mov ecx,edi
018f:004360b1 e8eafcffff call 00435da0 = EOSVIEWER.EXE:.text+0x34da0
018f:004360b6 8baf9c000000 mov ebp,dword ptr [edi+0000009c]
018f:004360bc 85ed test ebp,ebp
018f:004360be 0f8eea000000 jle 004361ae = EOSVIEWER.EXE:.text+0x351ae
018f:004360c4 8b87a0000000 mov eax,dword ptr [edi+000000a0]
018f:004360ca 85c0 test eax,eax
018f:004360cc 0f8edc000000 jle 004361ae = EOSVIEWER.EXE:.text+0x351ae

....etc]
Anonymous
February 20, 2005 4:35:35 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

True211 wrote:
>
> I'm confused as to why they would work on a scaled-down D70 before a
> much needed upgrade to the D100.

Because there is a massively huge market for a cheaper DSLR (all those
amatures currently using P&S cameras), whereas an enhance D100 would only be
bought by pros ready for an upgrade.

--
Dominic Richens | dominic@alumni.uottawa.ca
"If you're not *outraged*, you're not paying attention!"
Anonymous
February 20, 2005 4:46:40 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Darrell wrote:

> How many of the 20Da will actually be produced, and at what cost?

From what I gather it's irrelevant. It is pretty much a custom market and
buyers will pay through the nose which is par for the course in serious amateur
astronomy.

A savy seller could take a risk and order dozens to hundreds, getting the cost
down and then sell them via the astro rags. One would need a good feel for the
market to risk this.

Cheers,
Alan


--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.
Anonymous
February 20, 2005 4:48:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Steven M. Scharf" wrote:
>
> "True211" <true211@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:37po9dF5fc6lqU1@individual.net...
>
> > I'm confused as to why they would work on a scaled-down D70 before a much
> > needed upgrade to the D100.
>
> They must be working on both, as well as a full frame professional model.
> They want to compete in every segment of the Digital SLR market. Nikon's
> problem is that they are behind Canon in sensor development, and sensor
> development is difficult and time consuming.
>
> Entry level: _______, Digital Rebel
> Consumer Level: D70, Digital Rebel XT
> Prosumer Level: _______, 20D
> Semi-Pro: D2x, 1D Mark II
> Pro: ________, 1Ds Mark II

Nice scale, but I disagree that D2X is not a pro camera and I
would not call 1D MkII 'semi pro.'

D2X belongs together with EOS-1DsMkII. A difference between 16.7
and 12.4 Mpix is not significant, compare the horizontal and
vertical pixel count.

And EOS-1D Mk II together with the D2H targets the sports and
active photography, not demanding very high resolution. But having
a choice, why not to take the EOS with its twice higher resolution
and the same frame/sec speed 8and* lower noise! Nikon's problem is
lack of sensors, we all agree on this. They started the digital
revolution, and got scooped by Canon because Canon made their
superior CMOS sensors.

Thomas
Anonymous
February 20, 2005 7:36:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

In article <mtKdndQhiMV0qoXfRVn-1Q@wavecable.com>,
C J Campbell <christophercampbellNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>"Sheldon" <sheldon@XXXXXXXXsopris.net> wrote in message
>news:spGdnb5wtfASfIrfRVn-pQ@comcast.com...
>>
>>
>> But, some of the most successful companies don't sit at the forefront of
>> technology.
>
>Near as I can tell, Nikon has never tried to be on "the bleeding edge" of
>technology. They had a reputation for conservatism clear back in the '60s.
>Let all those other guys try out new-fangled ideas like TTL metering,
>auto-focus, etc. Then pick the best ideas and make them bulletproof. Come to
>think of it, Canon really does a lot of the same thing. I am hard pressed to
>think of any technology that was first introduced by either Nikon or Canon.

And *way* back when, both Nikon and Cannon were offering clones,
of the Zeiss Contax and a Leica respectively. At least up through the
Nikon-F SLRs, they would still accept the Contax Cassettes (infinitely
re-usable 35mm cassettes without a felt light trap to embed grit and
scratch the film). I don't know what legacys from Leica the early
Cannons may have carried over, but I *know* about the Contax cassettes.

I don't know whether they were carried as far forward as the
N90s, because my N90s is missing the back, since Kodak upgraded it to
digital some years ago for the AP.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: <dnichols@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
Anonymous
February 20, 2005 9:09:19 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"True211" <true211@gmail.com> wrote:

> Someone posted a photo and specs of what was supposed to be a leaked
> D200 from Nikon. I just checked the US Patent and Trademark Office for
> "D200" and nothing came up.
>
> However.... <grin>
>
> Nikon *did* file a TM for the D50 logo on Feb 8, 2005.
>
> See for yourself:
>
> http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=1b3qt5...
>
> I looked at the recent TM filings by Nikon and only found the D50, so
> it is unlikely that any other DSLR will be announced any time soon.
>
> http://makeashorterlink.com/?O2EF1248A
>
> I'm confused as to why they would work on a scaled-down D70 before a
> much needed upgrade to the D100.
>
>
>

Because they're going where the money is. The D70 is a HUGE money-maker
for Nikon and their D2H and D2X sales are far under their expectations.
Anonymous
February 20, 2005 9:17:36 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Woodchuck Bill <bwr607@hotmail.com> wrote:


> To confuse the hell out of first-time dSLR buyers like myself. I was
> set on the D70...then Canon had to drop the XT bomb and now Nikon is
> hitting us with this small silver bullet.
>

They're insane if they stick with that dRebley-looking silver and black
color scheme that just screams 'CHEAP TOY'. I know people who chose D70's
over dRebels just because the Canon was too ugly to be seen with.
February 20, 2005 9:17:37 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Bubbabob" <rnorton@_remove_this_thuntek.net> wrote in message
news:Xns960372E7EFB4Cdilfjelfoiwepofujsdk@216.168.3.30...
> Woodchuck Bill <bwr607@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> > To confuse the hell out of first-time dSLR buyers like myself. I was
> > set on the D70...then Canon had to drop the XT bomb and now Nikon is
> > hitting us with this small silver bullet.
> >
>
> They're insane if they stick with that dRebley-looking silver and black
> color scheme that just screams 'CHEAP TOY'. I know people who chose D70's
> over dRebels just because the Canon was too ugly to be seen with.

If you are referring to the Photoshopped image on DPReview forums
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1034&m...

Front view you can see the door release of the F55, the back view you see
the USB connection.

Sort of like the watch in Ben Hur, or the jet vapour trails on Bonanza...
Anonymous
February 20, 2005 9:30:53 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Bubbabob <rnorton@_remove_this_thuntek.net> wrote in
news:Xns960372E7EFB4Cdilfjelfoiwepofujsdk@216.168.3.30:

> Woodchuck Bill <bwr607@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>> To confuse the hell out of first-time dSLR buyers like myself. I
>> was set on the D70...then Canon had to drop the XT bomb and now
>> Nikon is hitting us with this small silver bullet.
>>
>
> They're insane if they stick with that dRebley-looking silver and
> black color scheme that just screams 'CHEAP TOY'. I know people
> who chose D70's over dRebels just because the Canon was too ugly
> to be seen with.
>

They just might do that. After all, they want to leave an incentive for
buyers to spend the extra $$$ on the D70.

--

Bill
Anonymous
February 20, 2005 9:45:04 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

["Followup-To:" header set to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems.]
Benedikt Schenker <Benedikt.Schenker@mt.com> wrote:
> Sheldon wrote:

>> And most people are extremely loyal to
>> Nikon or Canon. They will wait for the Nikon, rather than switch to a new
>> standard.

Which might have something to do with the fact that lens
collections are much more expensive than bodies ...

> How many firmware updates are about for the 20D, available for 3
> months, and how many for the D70? I rather make pictures than firmware
> downloads (and of course a new firmware only fixes pictures made
> afterwards, and a camera in warranty repair makes the worst possible
> pictures - none)

You seem to equate the availability of bug fixes (new
firmware) with the number and/or seriousness of bugs. This
is misleading as can be seen by the behaviour of many
companies in the computer sector. Your newsreader, for
example, wrapped the quoted lines very badly and lost the
quote signs on the wrapped around parts. This bug has been
known for years. No fix is available, there is just one "it
works mostly and inconveniences the user" worokaround.

Your equating is part of the reason some companies withhold
fixes, since by giving fixes they admit bugs.

-Wolfgang
Anonymous
February 20, 2005 11:03:42 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

In rec.photo.equipment.35mm C J Campbell <christophercampbellNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> "Sheldon" <sheldon@XXXXXXXXsopris.net> wrote in message
> news:spGdnb5wtfASfIrfRVn-pQ@comcast.com...
> >
> >
> > But, some of the most successful companies don't sit at the forefront of
> > technology.
>
> Near as I can tell, Nikon has never tried to be on "the bleeding edge" of
> technology. They had a reputation for conservatism clear back in the '60s.
> Let all those other guys try out new-fangled ideas like TTL metering,
> auto-focus, etc. Then pick the best ideas and make them bulletproof. Come to
> think of it, Canon really does a lot of the same thing. I am hard pressed to
> think of any technology that was first introduced by either Nikon or Canon.

AFAIK, Nikon was the first (and still is the best in both high and mid end)
with zone-system style metering (aka matrix, 3d matrix, etc). Nikon F6
simply is the bleeding edge of automatic exposure.

--
Sander

+++ Out of cheese error +++
Anonymous
February 21, 2005 12:57:28 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

In article <4219059C.9040D94@comcast.net>, henrymot@coco.net says...
> D2X belongs together with EOS-1DsMkII. A difference between 16.7
> and 12.4 Mpix is not significant, compare the horizontal and
> vertical pixel count.

I'd say it isn't the megapixels but the sensor size. After all, the
original 1Ds had 11.1 megapixels. The big difference is the full-frame
sensor on the 1Ds Mark II, 1.5x APC-C on the D2X.

I have yet to see if the D2X will turn into a massive noise-box with
that APS-C sensor. I haven't done the math, but they have to be
approaching Oly in the "cram the photosites on the chip" arena. That
can only equal one thing: noise and loss of dynamic range.
--
http://www.pbase.com/bcbaird/
Anonymous
February 21, 2005 3:23:35 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"C J Campbell" <christophercampbellNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "Kevin McMurtrie" <mcmurtri@dslextreme.com> wrote:
> >
> > I think Canon is the first to sell astrophotography versions of
> > pro/consumer digicams.
>
> Well, if you mean the 20Da they are not selling them yet! :-) I am really
> surprised that Minolta did not get into this market first.

The 20Da is a special-order only camera. Delivery time is 3 months from
receipt of order, and orders are now (as of Feb 15th, actually) being
accepted.

David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan
February 21, 2005 3:23:36 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"David J. Littleboy" <davidjl@gol.com> wrote in message
news:cvaa24$q8o$1@nnrp.gol.com...
>
> "C J Campbell" <christophercampbellNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > "Kevin McMurtrie" <mcmurtri@dslextreme.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > I think Canon is the first to sell astrophotography versions of
> > > pro/consumer digicams.
> >
> > Well, if you mean the 20Da they are not selling them yet! :-) I am
really
> > surprised that Minolta did not get into this market first.
>
> The 20Da is a special-order only camera. Delivery time is 3 months from
> receipt of order, and orders are now (as of Feb 15th, actually) being
> accepted.
>
> David J. Littleboy
> Tokyo, Japan
>
What's the MSRP, if one can use that term on a custom product...
Anonymous
February 21, 2005 10:04:57 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

In rec.photo.equipment.35mm Brian C. Baird <nospam@please.no> wrote:
> In article <4219059C.9040D94@comcast.net>, henrymot@coco.net says...
> > D2X belongs together with EOS-1DsMkII. A difference between 16.7
> > and 12.4 Mpix is not significant, compare the horizontal and
> > vertical pixel count.
>
> I'd say it isn't the megapixels but the sensor size. After all, the
> original 1Ds had 11.1 megapixels. The big difference is the full-frame
> sensor on the 1Ds Mark II, 1.5x APC-C on the D2X.
>
> I have yet to see if the D2X will turn into a massive noise-box with
> that APS-C sensor. I haven't done the math, but they have to be
> approaching Oly in the "cram the photosites on the chip" arena. That
> can only equal one thing: noise and loss of dynamic range.

APS-C sized 12MP cameras exist and they aren't massive noiseboxes,
so neither would one expact that from D2X, especially given that Nikon
will have paid excessive detail to that. Noise is something that can be
handled and eliminated to an extent and often to levels that catches
people with quite a suprize.

--
Sander

+++ Out of cheese error +++
Anonymous
February 21, 2005 10:33:29 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

In article <1109012697.837059@haldjas.folklore.ee>,
sander@haldjas.folklore.ee says...
> > I'd say it isn't the megapixels but the sensor size. After all, the
> > original 1Ds had 11.1 megapixels. The big difference is the full-frame
> > sensor on the 1Ds Mark II, 1.5x APC-C on the D2X.
> >
> > I have yet to see if the D2X will turn into a massive noise-box with
> > that APS-C sensor. I haven't done the math, but they have to be
> > approaching Oly in the "cram the photosites on the chip" arena. That
> > can only equal one thing: noise and loss of dynamic range.
>
> APS-C sized 12MP cameras exist and they aren't massive noiseboxes,

You mean 6 million photosites (regular sensors) with smaller, added
sensors at each photosite (I assume you're talking about the Fuji S3).
This is NOT the same as 12 megapixels of smaller sensors at 12 million
photosites.

> so neither would one expact that from D2X, especially given that Nikon
> will have paid excessive detail to that. Noise is something that can be
> handled and eliminated to an extent and often to levels that catches
> people with quite a suprize.

No, not really. Noise removal is an ugly business, typically. Either
you make the sensor more sensitive to drown out the noise with signal,
reduce/filter the amount of noise added during the read process or
reduce the noise in software.

You cannot make a 12 megapixel APS-C sized sensor very sensitive, your
sensors are too small. You can reduce the read noise, but this only
gets you so far if you don't have super-low noise to begin with. At
that point, all you're left with is leaving the noise in the file, or
filtering it out via software.

Heavy software noise reduction is U-G-L-Y ugly!

I managed to see a picture from the D2X at ISO 800. It was, quite
simply, fugly compared to an ISO 1600 picture from any of the current
8.0+ megapixel Canon dSLRs.

So, from what rumors I've heard from people who have seen/shot with the
Nikon D2X at PMA, it's a noisebox compared the Canon professional dSLRs.
--
http://www.pbase.com/bcbaird/
Anonymous
February 22, 2005 1:16:42 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 23:32:53 -0800, Kevin McMurtrie
<mcmurtri@dslextreme.com> wrote:
> In article <mtKdndQhiMV0qoXfRVn-1Q@wavecable.com>,
> "C J Campbell" <christophercampbellNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Near as I can tell, Nikon has never tried to be on "the bleeding edge" of
>> technology. They had a reputation for conservatism clear back in the '60s.
>> Let all those other guys try out new-fangled ideas like TTL metering,
>> auto-focus, etc. Then pick the best ideas and make them bulletproof. Come to
>> think of it, Canon really does a lot of the same thing. I am hard pressed to
>> think of any technology that was first introduced by either Nikon or Canon.
>
> I think Canon is the first to sell astrophotography versions of
> pro/consumer digicams.

That's a new market niche, but as far as I can tell, there isn't any
new *technology* in it.

--
Ben Rosengart (212) 741-4400 x215
Sometimes it only makes sense to focus our attention on those
questions that are equal parts trivial and intriguing.
--Josh Micah Marshall
Anonymous
February 23, 2005 1:30:15 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

In rec.photo.equipment.35mm Brian C. Baird <nospam@please.no> wrote:
>
> > so neither would one expact that from D2X, especially given that Nikon
> > will have paid excessive detail to that. Noise is something that can be
> > handled and eliminated to an extent and often to levels that catches
> > people with quite a suprize.
>
> No, not really. Noise removal is an ugly business, typically. Either
> you make the sensor more sensitive to drown out the noise with signal,
> reduce/filter the amount of noise added during the read process or
> reduce the noise in software.
>

I didn't say "noise removal".

> You cannot make a 12 megapixel APS-C sized sensor very sensitive, your
> sensors are too small. You can reduce the read noise, but this only
> gets you so far if you don't have super-low noise to begin with. At
> that point, all you're left with is leaving the noise in the file, or
> filtering it out via software.
>

So you not just make less ensitive, you also reduce noise from both the
rest of the system and add a heatsink to the other side of the sensor,
etc. This is nothing new and not specific to digital cameras.

> Heavy software noise reduction is U-G-L-Y ugly!
>
> I managed to see a picture from the D2X at ISO 800. It was, quite
> simply, fugly compared to an ISO 1600 picture from any of the current
> 8.0+ megapixel Canon dSLRs.
>
> So, from what rumors I've heard from people who have seen/shot with the
> Nikon D2X at PMA, it's a noisebox compared the Canon professional dSLRs.

You simply have a silly high-ISO fetish.
--
Sander

+++ Out of cheese error +++
Anonymous
February 26, 2005 10:04:02 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Take a look at Pentax...No big hyper campaign..They never did...But they
build great camera's........

--
_________________-
BOCH
________________
A+TECH
_________
"Tom Scales" <tomtoo@softhome.net> wrote in message
news:%%RRd.5639$u87.4908@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
>
> "Sheldon" <sheldon@XXXXXXXXsopris.net> wrote in message
> news:spGdnb9wtfASfIrfRVn-pQ@comcast.com...
> <snip>
>> IMHO if the lens comes off your camera and can be replaced by another,
>> you're now hooked. You will buy more lenses, at least that other cheap G
>> lens if you have a D70, and may keep your old body to use as a second
>> body. I think that's what some pros have done with the D70. When I
>> worked professionally I always had two cameras around my neck.
>>
>
> Just curious, are you unclear on what the G means? They're not consumer
> lenses across the board. Some are, some are not. The G indicates it
> doesn't have an aperture ring, not the quality if the lens.
>
> For example, the 70-200 f/2.8 VR lens is a G lens. Do you consider it a
> consumer lens?
>
> I see this misconception repeatedly posted here.
>
> Tom
>
Anonymous
February 27, 2005 8:16:39 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Boch" <pboch@columbus.rr.com> wrote in message
news:CbVTd.3525$m14.3263@fe2.columbus.rr.com...
> Take a look at Pentax...No big hyper campaign..They never did...But they
> build great camera's........

probably why the asking price is lower and fewer people buy them. Take it
from somone who tries to sell them.
!