win2k memory usage.

lhgpoobaa

Illustrious
Dec 31, 2007
14,462
1
40,780
I have a beast of a computer. :)
It has oodles of memory (512Mb @ PC150 to be precise).
However im finding with some apps running, if i havnt used them for a while they require significant hard disk usage to bring them back to the front again... and im figurning that they are getting "swapfiled"

is there a way in Win2k to force all apps to use REAL ram up to 100% before beginning to use the swapfile (pagefile)?

i remember a week or so back a similar thread... dunno if it was refering to win2k, 98, me or XP though.

Excuse me for a moment. I need to drive my ergonomic wheely chair over a sheet of bubble wrap!
 

btvillarin

Distinguished
Apr 10, 2001
2,370
0
19,780
I gotz 512MB of memory as well (not PC150, but a lot nevertheless). I've been wondering this also. I even enabled the DisableExecutivePaging setting in the registry, and I'm currently using 101.3MB out of 981MB of my virtual memory. I've done both, using <A HREF="http://www.outertech.com" target="_new">Cacheman</A>. I find it odd that my virtual memory is showing a total of 981Mbytes, since my paging file is set to 500MB on a 2nd HD.

Anyways, just to let you know...you're not the only one wanting to use all the RAM possible. :smile:

Problem solved. Please check out <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/btvillarin/" target="_new">My Website</A>.
 

OldBear

Splendid
Sep 14, 2001
5,380
0
25,780
Win 2k is pretty good at using ram memory first. (win9x,me-not good) Several ways I have used to find out if it is using ram first. #1 Lower your pagefile around 100meg at a time until it tells you it is out of memory (pagefile too small). #2 Watch the hard drive led for activity.

<font color=blue>Remember. You get what you pay for. All advice here is free.</font color=blue>
 

mbetea

Distinguished
Aug 16, 2001
1,662
0
19,780
there are some things that will be swapped out. for instance, a few weeks ago i tried a sf of 75mb and tried to install acrobat reader (9mb installer). got an error message telling me i ran out of VM and the installer would quit. and some apps, like adobe, no matter how much ram you give it, if it doesn't have any room to swap it'll put you in a world of hurt.
 

OldBear

Splendid
Sep 14, 2001
5,380
0
25,780
Your right. For once you can’t blame OS (hate that) but some apps have to have a page file because of the way they are written. (Maybe it is because of the OS?) I was just suggesting to experiment with smaller page file to see what works best. Ram is lots faster that hard drive

<font color=blue>Remember. You get what you pay for. All advice here is free.</font color=blue>
 

NickM

Distinguished
Mar 25, 2001
563
0
18,980
I agree with that.
It looks like some applications are really designed to use virtual memory, such as Office97 in a known issue:

<A HREF="http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q156/4/52.asp" target="_new">http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q156/4/52.asp</A>

While one is trying to reduce/eliminate the usage of virtual memory, don’t you think the Microsoft’s Resolution looks funny, do you? Read:

1. Click the Performance tab.
2. Click Virtual Memory.
3. Select "Let Windows manage my virtual memory settings (recommended)." ..?

Probably it is sometimes good to remember that <b>every program</b> you start in Win2K <b>runs a process</b>, that <b>loads code</b>, along with variables, and a process <b>can own resources</b> such as files, dynamic memory allocations, multiple threads, and when a Win32 process is created , the system automatically creates one thread for the process, the main or primary thread, and the primary thread can create additional threads, and each additional thread <b>has the power</b> to create more threads.
The problem here is probably because a process may initiate a code that demands virtual memory located on physical %drive% and the code is loaded from an executable file (a program).
Let’s imagine we change settings or even reprogram the Win2000’s Virtual Memory Manager using the Win32 SDK, or VC98. We are able to reprogram the Win2000 with no problem. But don’t you feel that we would better have to reprogram the executable file (the code) that demands virtual memory on physical %drive% instead?
It is common, when programmers while developing programs usually do not bother much themselves with interfering with native Win32 services such as VMM. They feel free to use native services as default. As you’ve known, the native NT VMM controls memory mapping to ensure that individual processes don’t corrupt each other or overwrite the OS.
And it might happen (and it probably often happens), a process from a program with its thread will require, call for paging service, virtual memory that you’re going to disable. You have to reprogram an application, not the Win2000 in order to eliminate the error. But how will you do reprogramming an application? An executable file? A *.dll that puts itself on paging?
Again, as mentioned in the "Office Programs Require Virtual Memory" article in the link above, it is Office, not Windows calls automatically for a physical %drive% in form of virtual memory....

Try to understand me correctly in simplified form: Win32 (not the only Win2000) may allow to run a code (designed by software developer, say by you, by me) and the code runs automatically. For example, I am a developer of MyAcrobat and I design that when a user opens a document, a $*.TMP file is created on a harddrive. I use native Win32 services and Win32 allows me to do that. I also design that during normal session the $*.TMP file updates automatically in every 2 min. In this case if a system crashes, there is always something left on the harddrive to help recover from the last document or restore latest settings. As a developer I don’t care, actually MyAcrobat doesn’t care that somebody doesn't like or doesn’t want MyAcrobat to write something on a harddisk.
Because MyAcrobat is smart enough to know that in case of writing into RAM instead and possible system crash there will be nothing left to recover. MyAcrobat says, Hey, would you please to read the Hardware Requirements, the Harddrive requirement? I need virtual memory.
So, I compiled my code. When my program starts, my code runs automatically. If OS settings interfere with the code, an error occurs.
 

OldBear

Splendid
Sep 14, 2001
5,380
0
25,780
I understand where you are coming from. You really can't blame programmers because they usually work for somebody else and probably don't care as long as it works and keeps management off them. The bigger the company the worse it is. Example Microsoft office: Smaller companies and developers try harder to get a piece of the action and (knowing a few) start off with good intensions for a noble product. But smaller companies have trouble competing and face time constraints, unless they have strong financial support, and wind up cutting corners to get the product shipped. I have no concerns with virtual memory it's needed and yes it does save part of temp files incase you have a shut down of some nature. What does bother us is the way OS wants to create such large virtual memory files. Even Win2k uses an old rule of thumb and makes a pagefile 150% of your installed memory. Why? Sure, years ago when 64 meg of ram was plenty and a large swapfile was 20 meg most people did not have a 1 gig hard drive and took a big performance hit unless they knew how to set up a smaller swapfile. Point is: Has development become more efficient or just taking advantage of faster cpu's and memory?

<font color=blue>Remember. You get what you pay for. :smile: All advice here is free.</font color=blue> :wink:
 
G

Guest

Guest
what about setting up a ramdrive if the swapfile realy bugs ya? especially givent he cheap price of ram these days. I havent set one up yet in windows 2000 because my experience has been that it uses its physical ram before accessing the swapfile with the majority of programs, but heres a link to a page with some ramdrive programs for windows 2000.

<A HREF="http://sac-ftp.externet.hu/utildisk10.html" target="_new">http://sac-ftp.externet.hu/utildisk10.html</A>



ignore everything i say
 

NickM

Distinguished
Mar 25, 2001
563
0
18,980
That's just what I was thinking about yesterday! Even about programmers in big and small companies, large and small swap files that programs and OS might allocate; :smile: hehh.. you've read my minds. :smile:
I'm pleased you've understood my main point the way I desired, despite my simplified but long and awkward sample (sorry. And thanks for your time).
This thread helps me to understand more.
Thank you for your response.
 

NickM

Distinguished
Mar 25, 2001
563
0
18,980
>"...what about setting up a ramdrive ..."

Do the guys from Externet provide something really more reliable and mature than Microsoft's Ramdisk.sys?

[QUOTE: <font color=green><b>" FILE: Ramdisk.sys Sample Driver for Windows 2000
</b>... Ramdisk is a sample that demonstrates a software-only Windows(r) 2000 device driver. This driver creates a RAM disk drive of a specified size. You can use this ramdisk like any other disk, but the contents of the disk are lost when you shut down the computer. (Generally, the Windows(r) 2000 cache manager does a much better job of optimizing memory usage than Ramdisk does.)

This sample provides an example of a minimal driver. Neither the driver nor the sample programs are intended for use in a production environment. Rather, they are intended for educational purposes and as a skeletal version of a driver... ”</font color=green>
<A HREF="http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q257/4/05.asp" target="_new">http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q257/4/05.asp</A>