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Duel Screen Price Is....

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Anonymous
May 12, 2004 12:56:21 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gameboy.advance,alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,rec.games.video.nintendo,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,rec.games.video.sony (More info?)

$199

according to EBgames.com and Gamestop.com


http://www.ebgames.com/ebx/product/241868.asp
http://www.gamestop.com/product.asp?product%5Fid=T00003...

More about : duel screen price

Anonymous
May 12, 2004 2:10:53 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gameboy.advance,alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,rec.games.video.nintendo,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,rec.games.video.sony (More info?)

> $199
>
> according to EBgames.com and Gamestop.com
>
>
> http://www.ebgames.com/ebx/product/241868.asp
> http://www.gamestop.com/product.asp?product%5Fid=T00003...


Perhaps...but I've seen $150 reported a number of places. As long as it
doesn't go past $200 I think it is reasonably priced...and the PSP will be
no less than $200.
--
Xbox Live Games: TOCA Race Driver 2 and PGR2.
Currently Playing: Nothing
Blatant Whoring: Visit www.nintendo-evolved.com and www.xbox-evolved.com for
the latest news, reviews, and the rest of the coverage for the best two
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Anonymous
May 12, 2004 11:03:33 PM

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"Bondo" <happyhappy@joyjoy.com> wrote in message
news:BCC7A8AD.F715%happyhappy@joyjoy.com...
>
> > $199
> >
> > according to EBgames.com and Gamestop.com
> >
> > http://www.ebgames.com/ebx/product/241868.asp
> > http://www.gamestop.com/product.asp?product%5Fid=T00003...
>
>
> Perhaps...but I've seen $150 reported a number of places. As long as it
> doesn't go past $200 I think it is reasonably priced...and the PSP will be
> no less than $200.

I'd like to see Nintendo bite the bullet for once and price it as low as
possible. This is a totally new concept and they need to build the
installed base as quickly as possible in order to prove its viability to
developers and retailers. $99 would be ideal. So what if they lose money
and can't supply enough at that price? Make it the hottest thing around
this Christmas, it will pay off big time down the line, especially when the
PSP becomes a competitor.
Related resources
May 12, 2004 11:03:34 PM

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"El Guapo" <plethora@pinatas.com> wrote in message
news:9yuoc.34642$536.6349477@attbi_s03...
> "Bondo" <happyhappy@joyjoy.com> wrote in message
> news:BCC7A8AD.F715%happyhappy@joyjoy.com...
> >
> > > $199
> > >
> > > according to EBgames.com and Gamestop.com
> > >
> > > http://www.ebgames.com/ebx/product/241868.asp
> > > http://www.gamestop.com/product.asp?product%5Fid=T00003...
> >
> >
> > Perhaps...but I've seen $150 reported a number of places. As long as it
> > doesn't go past $200 I think it is reasonably priced...and the PSP will
be
> > no less than $200.
>
> I'd like to see Nintendo bite the bullet for once and price it as low as
> possible. This is a totally new concept and they need to build the
> installed base as quickly as possible in order to prove its viability to
> developers and retailers. $99 would be ideal. So what if they lose money
> and can't supply enough at that price? Make it the hottest thing around
> this Christmas, it will pay off big time down the line, especially when
the
> PSP becomes a competitor.


BUT:

They must be careful not to price it so low that it becomes viewed as a
"cheap" alternative to the PSP. This is in my opinion one of the many things
that killed the Gamecube, it was viewed by and large as a cheap version of
the PS2 and Xbox. Of course that wasn't and isn't ture, but the general
public had that perception.
Anonymous
May 12, 2004 11:03:35 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gameboy.advance,alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,rec.games.video.nintendo,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,rec.games.video.sony (More info?)

Jonathan wrote:
> "El Guapo" <plethora@pinatas.com> wrote in message
> news:9yuoc.34642$536.6349477@attbi_s03...
>
>>"Bondo" <happyhappy@joyjoy.com> wrote in message
>>news:BCC7A8AD.F715%happyhappy@joyjoy.com...
>>
>>>>$199
>>>>
>>>>according to EBgames.com and Gamestop.com
>>>>
>>>>http://www.ebgames.com/ebx/product/241868.asp
>>>>http://www.gamestop.com/product.asp?product%5Fid=T00003...
>>>
>>>
>>>Perhaps...but I've seen $150 reported a number of places. As long as it
>>>doesn't go past $200 I think it is reasonably priced...and the PSP will
>
> be
>
>>>no less than $200.
>>
>>I'd like to see Nintendo bite the bullet for once and price it as low as
>>possible. This is a totally new concept and they need to build the
>>installed base as quickly as possible in order to prove its viability to
>>developers and retailers. $99 would be ideal. So what if they lose money
>>and can't supply enough at that price? Make it the hottest thing around
>>this Christmas, it will pay off big time down the line, especially when
>
> the
>
>>PSP becomes a competitor.
>
>
>
> BUT:
>
> They must be careful not to price it so low that it becomes viewed as a
> "cheap" alternative to the PSP. This is in my opinion one of the many things
> that killed the Gamecube, it was viewed by and large as a cheap version of
> the PS2 and Xbox. Of course that wasn't and isn't ture, but the general
> public had that perception.
>
>

Killed the gamecube? Huh? A bit over-stated, eh? I'm sick of this
whole sony-vs-microsoft-vs-nintendo thing being seen as a war that can
only have one winner. There are three really nice console gaming
systems available, each with their own pros and cons.

In the car market you wouldn't say that Kia's cheap price is what
"killed it"! Those cars are happily selling along with Hondas,
Toyotas and Porsches. Each has good points and bad points. Quality,
price, etc.

That's why you have something called "economics" to let people decide
what they want.

P.S. - I'm definitely buying a DS.
May 12, 2004 11:03:36 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gameboy.advance,alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,rec.games.video.nintendo,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,rec.games.video.sony (More info?)

> > BUT:
> >
> > They must be careful not to price it so low that it becomes viewed as a
> > "cheap" alternative to the PSP. This is in my opinion one of the many
things
> > that killed the Gamecube, it was viewed by and large as a cheap version
of
> > the PS2 and Xbox. Of course that wasn't and isn't ture, but the general
> > public had that perception.
> >
> >
>
> Killed the gamecube? Huh? A bit over-stated, eh?

The GameCube remains in last place, despite many great games early on. The
only way Nintendo was able to make it seel was to flog it. I don't think
it's overstated at all. There IS a REASON why the GC and XBOX launched at
the same time, but the Xbox did and continues to do better.... Marketting,
and public perception. Nintendo mis-judged the marketplace with the
GameCube, why does everyone insist on denying that?


> I'm sick of this
> whole sony-vs-microsoft-vs-nintendo thing being seen as a war that can
> only have one winner. There are three really nice console gaming
> systems available, each with their own pros and cons.

Absolutly true. And it's not about whether one is a winner or not. It is
about whether each on is a success or not. The Xbox was the underdog, and
it's a huge hit, with many excellent exlusives. The PS2 is a hit because it
was backward compatible with the PS1, and it has the sony marketting machine
behind it. The GameCube, while not really a failure, can't really be called
a success, despite it's exclusive games. This can be directly attributed to
Nintendo being out of touch with it's market. They released a small purple
cube that looked like a toy. To me, I am infomred, and I knew I wanted one
anyway. to the casual consumer of video games, it's merits were not so
obvious. Nintendo made some mistake with the N64, but back then they had the
advnatage of being Number 1. The leader can afford mistakes. They
unfortunately repeated some of them with the GC, except they weren;t number
one anymore, so they actually had to hurt a little bit.

Nintendo acknowledges their mistakes, why can't you?


>
> In the car market you wouldn't say that Kia's cheap price is what
> "killed it"! Those cars are happily selling along with Hondas,
> Toyotas and Porsches. Each has good points and bad points. Quality,
> price, etc.

The car market and the videogame market are hardly rleated. It's not like
buying a KIA makes it impossible for you to dive on certain roads...Every
car is compatible with every road.

>
> That's why you have something called "economics" to let people decide
> what they want.

That's not called "economics", that's called "freedom of choice".


>
> P.S. - I'm definitely buying a DS.

So am I. What's your point?
May 13, 2004 12:26:26 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gameboy.advance,alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,rec.games.video.nintendo,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,rec.games.video.sony (More info?)

> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Perhaps...but I've seen $150 reported a number of places. As long as
> it
> > > > doesn't go past $200 I think it is reasonably priced...and the PSP
> will
> > be
> > > > no less than $200.
> > >
> > > I'd like to see Nintendo bite the bullet for once and price it as low
as
> > > possible. This is a totally new concept and they need to build the
> > > installed base as quickly as possible in order to prove its viability
to
> > > developers and retailers. $99 would be ideal. So what if they lose
> money
> > > and can't supply enough at that price? Make it the hottest thing
around
> > > this Christmas, it will pay off big time down the line, especially
when
> > the
> > > PSP becomes a competitor.
> >
> >
> > BUT:
> >
> > They must be careful not to price it so low that it becomes viewed as a
> > "cheap" alternative to the PSP. This is in my opinion one of the many
> things
> > that killed the Gamecube, it was viewed by and large as a cheap version
of
> > the PS2 and Xbox. Of course that wasn't and isn't ture, but the general
> > public had that perception.
>
> Your opinion is easily disproved. Gamecube sales took off when the price
> hit $99. Exactly the opposite of being "killed." Price has actually been
> one of its saving graces.

Exactly. Nintendo bungled the launch so badly, "including" pricing it so low
that it seems like a "budget" system, that wasn;t as good, to the average
ignorant consumer. In the end the only way Nintendo was able to get
GameCubes off the shelves was to set the price so low that they are now in
effect flogging it. Having a low price late in a systems life is a good
thing. Starting it off that way can have undesirable effects, and I belive
it did.

>
> Also, I don't think that the comparison of (PS2 vs. Gamecube) and (PSP vs.
> DS) is strictly correct. PS2 vs. Gamecube was a pretty straightforward
> competition, but comparing the PSP and DS is more complicated. They are
> very different machines with very different goals. Will they compete? Of
> course they will, *especially* if Nintendo insists on pricing them into
the
> same category. If they do, the comparisons will be unavoidable.

Of course it is fair. The DS is Nintendo's response to the PSP. If the PSP
had not appear on the radar Nintendo would have preferred without a doubt to
milk GBA techonology for a while longer. Like it or not, Sony has forced
Nintendos hand in this, and I am glad. I think Nintendo has responded so
strongly that they have completely stolen Sony's thunder. All the buzz is
around the DS, the PSP is getting only a fraction of the attention. Even the
mainstreem media is in love with Nintendo again, saying they had the best
showing at E3 this years. Nintendo is on their way to relevence again, and
it's a damn good thing.

Yes, the PSP has more raw power. Yes it is the typical playsation forumla,
games plus mucis and movies in one. In this case the movie functions are
plain stupid, who is going to start buying movies in a propretory format
that can only be played on the PSP? I sure won't be.

The DS on the other hand is a very iinnovative system. The overall grpahics
are not as good, and the sounds porbably isn't either, but it sure is more
exciting...

>
> On the other hand, if Nintendo prices the system low enough, it will
> cannibalize GBA sales and should get off to a very fast start. Nintendo
may
> not want to do that, but now that I've seen it, I think they should. This
> thing has some very cool potential, but that will only be fully realized
> with strong developer support, and the only way to ensure that is to
quickly
> build an installed base. The GBA has huge market share and a huge
installed
> base, so not only can Nintendo afford to give some of that to the DS, it's
> probably their biggest advantage over Sony. Think about it. People in
the
> market for a GBA might instead spend a little more to get a DS. Nintendo
> eats more of the cost, but in return sells enough DS's to encourage a lot
of
> third party development, and they still get to sell GBA games to those
same
> people. And if they can outsell the PSP with the DS right from the start
it
> will be a huge advantage, not just now but later when they release another
> Gameboy sequel.


I agree. I also do not for a second think that this is a third pillar
system. It is the next Gameboy, the system Nintendo would have rather waited
a couple more years to release.....
Anonymous
May 13, 2004 2:27:11 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gameboy.advance,alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,rec.games.video.nintendo,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,rec.games.video.sony (More info?)

>> Killed the gamecube? Huh? A bit over-stated, eh?
>
> The GameCube remains in last place, despite many great games early on. The
> only way Nintendo was able to make it seel was to flog it. I don't think
> it's overstated at all. There IS a REASON why the GC and XBOX launched at
> the same time, but the Xbox did and continues to do better.... Marketting,
> and public perception. Nintendo mis-judged the marketplace with the
> GameCube, why does everyone insist on denying that?

Dude, the Gamecube is ahead of the Xbox in worldwide sales at the moment (by
a smidgen.) So to act like the Xbox is just this huge step above the
Gamecube in success is kind of...over-stated. And yes, so is your saying the
price killed the Gamecube.
--
Xbox Live Games: TOCA Race Driver 2 and PGR2.
Currently Playing: Nothing
Blatant Whoring: Visit www.nintendo-evolved.com and www.xbox-evolved.com for
the latest news, reviews, and the rest of the coverage for the best two
consoles.
Anonymous
May 13, 2004 2:55:04 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gameboy.advance,alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,rec.games.video.nintendo,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,rec.games.video.sony (More info?)

> Nintendo made matters worse with outdated memory card system, proprietary
> media, and non third party game friendly controllers.
> But the launch was the number one thing that killed Nintendo, no doubt about
> it.

I agree that the launch lineup was percieved to be weak...but in the first
month they had Super Monkey Ball (still my favorite game this generation,)
Super Smash Bros. Melee, and Pikmin. I thought it was a strong first few
months for the GCN...but then they did nothing until the next summer with ED
and then Mario.

I do think the memory card was too small, 251 at launch would have been
better, the proprietary media had no effect IMO.
--
Xbox Live Games: TOCA Race Driver 2 and PGR2.
Currently Playing: Nothing
Blatant Whoring: Visit www.nintendo-evolved.com and www.xbox-evolved.com for
the latest news, reviews, and the rest of the coverage for the best two
consoles.
Anonymous
May 13, 2004 3:50:04 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gameboy.advance,alt.games.video.ninten (More info?)

>I'd like to see Nintendo bite the bullet for once and price it as low as
>possible. This is a totally new concept and they need to build the
>installed base as quickly as possible in order to prove its viability to
>developers and retailers. $99 would be ideal. So what if they lose money
>and can't supply enough at that price? Make it the hottest thing around
>this Christmas, it will pay off big time down the line, especially when the
>PSP becomes a competitor.

A low price didn't make Dreamcast or Gamecube outsell PS2.
Anonymous
May 13, 2004 4:43:37 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gameboy.advance,alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,rec.games.video.nintendo,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,rec.games.video.sony (More info?)

I'm not even a handheld inclined gamer, but the DS has given me hope that
handheld gaming can be a lot more FUN than I first thought.

Wonder what the price will be in the UK.

Kev

"R420" <radeonr420@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:51488ce2.0405120756.6b7eeab0@posting.google.com...
> $199
>
> according to EBgames.com and Gamestop.com
>
>
> http://www.ebgames.com/ebx/product/241868.asp
> http://www.gamestop.com/product.asp?product%5Fid=T00003...
Anonymous
May 13, 2004 7:55:07 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gameboy.advance,alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,rec.games.video.nintendo,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,rec.games.video.sony (More info?)

"Zimmy" <zimmy@msn.com> wrote in message
news:2gh9riF2ptktU1@uni-berlin.de...

> The number one main problem with the Cube launch was the same as N64, the
> available software. At least N64 had one of the best games of all times
to
> hype it. What did the Cube have? Luigi's Demo???
> I can not fathom how a system in development as long as the Cube not
having
> a huge Mario game at launch.
> Call Halo overrated, but it felt like a must own game and delivered.
>
> Nintendo made matters worse with outdated memory card system, proprietary
> media, and non third party game friendly controllers.
> But the launch was the number one thing that killed Nintendo, no doubt
about
> it.

I agree, but only partly. The PS2 had a much lousier launch lineup than the
Gamecube (Super Monkey Ball alone made it a great launch library in my
opinion), but what it had that the Gamecube didn't is a lot of expectation.
People--or at least gamers--knew there were a lot of hot games on the way
for it. They knew it had a lot of backing, and that sequels to big
Playstation franchises were in the works. Of course, there was the DVD
player thing, too...
With the Gamecube, we all "knew" that the big Nintendo franchises would show
up someday, too, but there hadn't been all that much previewed. I think if
Nintendo had video to show as impressive as the Metal Gear Solid one from
the pre-PS2 launch (this E3's Zelda video, for example) then they could have
had enough momentum for a great launch and a good post-launch continuation
as well, even without the big Mario game they were missing.
Anonymous
May 13, 2004 9:20:30 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gameboy.advance,alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,rec.games.video.nintendo,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,rec.games.video.sony (More info?)

radeonr420@yahoo.com (R420) wrote in message news:<51488ce2.0405120756.6b7eeab0@posting.google.com>...
> $199
>
> according to EBgames.com and Gamestop.com
>
>
> http://www.ebgames.com/ebx/product/241868.asp

Best news I've seen yet:

"Each 3-inch screen... is backlit to assure comfortable play in any
lighting condition."

I was going to buy a GBA SP, but with this on the horizon I can wait.

- Jordan
Anonymous
May 14, 2004 1:17:41 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gameboy.advance,alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,rec.games.video.nintendo,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,rec.games.video.sony (More info?)

"Leon Dexter" <leondexterNOSPAM@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:vTMoc.18635$V97.12144@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> "Zimmy" <zimmy@msn.com> wrote in message
> news:2gh9riF2ptktU1@uni-berlin.de...
>
> > The number one main problem with the Cube launch was the same as N64,
the
> > available software. At least N64 had one of the best games of all times
> to
> > hype it. What did the Cube have? Luigi's Demo???
> > I can not fathom how a system in development as long as the Cube not
> having
> > a huge Mario game at launch.
> > Call Halo overrated, but it felt like a must own game and delivered.
> >
> > Nintendo made matters worse with outdated memory card system,
proprietary
> > media, and non third party game friendly controllers.
> > But the launch was the number one thing that killed Nintendo, no doubt
> about
> > it.
>
> I agree, but only partly. The PS2 had a much lousier launch lineup than
the
> Gamecube (Super Monkey Ball alone made it a great launch library in my
> opinion), but what it had that the Gamecube didn't is a lot of
expectation.
> People--or at least gamers--knew there were a lot of hot games on the way
> for it. They knew it had a lot of backing, and that sequels to big
> Playstation franchises were in the works. Of course, there was the DVD
> player thing, too...
> With the Gamecube, we all "knew" that the big Nintendo franchises would
show
> up someday, too, but there hadn't been all that much previewed. I think
if
> Nintendo had video to show as impressive as the Metal Gear Solid one from
> the pre-PS2 launch (this E3's Zelda video, for example) then they could
have
> had enough momentum for a great launch and a good post-launch continuation
> as well, even without the big Mario game they were missing.

Yeah PS2's lineup was a POS at launch, but they wheren't the ones trying to
climb back on top.
May 14, 2004 2:22:11 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gameboy.advance,alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,rec.games.video.nintendo,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,rec.games.video.sony (More info?)

> > > Your opinion is easily disproved. Gamecube sales took off when the
> price
> > > hit $99. Exactly the opposite of being "killed." Price has actually
> been
> > > one of its saving graces.
> >
> > Exactly. Nintendo bungled the launch so badly, "including" pricing it so
> low
> > that it seems like a "budget" system, that wasn;t as good, to the
average
> > ignorant consumer.
>
> Uh... I just pointed out that the average ignorant consumer mainly started
> buying the machine when the price got even lower. Average ignorant
consumer
> types are like that - they actually prefer low prices over high ones, can
> you imagine that?!!
>

You need to take into acount the timing. Late in a systems life, everyone
expect prices to go down. SOme of the people may have already bought a Ps2
and Xbox or at least one of them, and see the GC at $99 and think, "what the
heck". However when a system is brand new state of the art piece of
equuipment, having the cheapest price is NOT necessarilly an advantage. When
Joe Six pack goes to buy a new TV, he doesn't get the Sony because it's
cheapest, he gets the it because the sony marketting machine has been at
work, and HE belives it is the best because it is more expensive. In reality
there are better TVs from JVC and Panasonic for less money, but that doesn't
factor in. In fact, Samsung makes some astounding TVs for a lot less money,
but Joe Six pack wants that Sony. He things Samsung must be cheaping out
somehow...

> > In the end the only way Nintendo was able to get
> > GameCubes off the shelves was to set the price so low that they are now
in
> > effect flogging it.
>
> > Having a low price late in a systems life is a good
> > thing. Starting it off that way can have undesirable effects, and I
belive
> > it did.
>
> I don't think so. The system launched well in the US & Europe. It only
> started falling behind, slowly at first, then more quickly, as it became
> clear that once again Nintendo's system would be the one with the fewest
> games.

Well it may have had a strong launch compared to the Xbox, only because the
Xbox had a reall, really slow start. Microsoft was unporven in the industry,
and many people were taking a wait and see approach. So to say the GameCube
had a strong launch, ok fine, but only if your definition of strong is
"about as good as Xbox", and frankly the Xbox didn't fly off the shelved
right from the get go.

>
> Then, MS's bundle absolutely killed them over the 2002 holiday season when
> they dropped the XBox price by $100, included two free games, and finally
> started packing in the more popular s-controller.

Yep.

> Nintendo had only dropped
> their price by $50 and included no free extras. At only $50 more, with
two
> free games, a bigger selection of "value" priced games, and no need to buy
a
> memory card, the XBox was perceived as a better value and a great "all in
> one package" Christmas present, and MS's relentless advertising helped to
> hammer that point in.

True. I owned an Xbox for a day and a half, and the hard drives was the best
thing about it.

> They also got (well, paid for, really) much better
> retail support. In contrast, it seemed that Nintendo was nowhere to be
> seen.

This is Nintendo's fault. They were unwilling to aggressivley court
retailers.

> All told it was a big boost for Microsoft and a disaster for
> Nintendo. They really didn't get their mojo back until they dropped the
> price to $99, advertised the hell out of it, and in a reverse play gained
> back a lot of ground over the 2003 holiday. Note that in both cases, it
was
> a lower price and better value that mainly drove sales.

What you say is true. Though you ignore that Xbox had the "cool" factor
going for it right from the begining, and the Cube, sadly, did not. Before
Xbox even launched I knew a LOT of people who were completely psyched.

>
> > The DS is Nintendo's response to the PSP. If the PSP
> > had not appear on the radar Nintendo would have preferred without a
doubt
> to
> > milk GBA techonology for a while longer. Like it or not, Sony has forced
> > Nintendos hand in this, and I am glad. I think Nintendo has responded so
> > strongly that they have completely stolen Sony's thunder. All the buzz
is
> > around the DS, the PSP is getting only a fraction of the attention. Even
> the
> > mainstreem media is in love with Nintendo again, saying they had the
best
> > showing at E3 this years. Nintendo is on their way to relevence again,
and
> > it's a damn good thing.
>
> I agree with this. Although the DS was probably already in development,
or
> at least in concept form before the PSP announcement, I seriously doubt
> Nintendo would have moved as quickly on it as they have without the PSP
> looming.

Of course not. Nore would they be continuing to insist that this is a "third
pillar" Pullease. A new handheld system backward compatible with GBA is a
third pillar?

Not bloody likely. This third pilar thing is just a way to fend of some of
the inevitable whining from people who recently nought GBAs or SPs.

> So far they have played this very well. My point is I'd like to
> see them take a page out of Sony's book and go for the jugular. Go ahead
> and price the system to sell, and USE the GBA advantage while it is at its
> maximum.

I agree, though I am not exactly hopeful....

> However, this is one time where I think they should be agressive and do
it.
> The PSP represents the kind of long term threat that demands agressive
> action from Nintendo now, while they still have a commanding lead. Every
> third party game they get on the DS is a potential PSP game they take away
> from Sony, and in order to do that they need to generate a huge amount of
> buzz around the DS, and build the installed base as quickly as possible

The PSP will have the marketting force behind it like we have never seen.
Sony will market the hell out of it, and it WILL be the first REAL threat to
the Gameboy dynasty since Game Gear (which oddly no one seem to acknowledge
how popular it actually was, game gear lasted fives years againt gameboy
and a hell of a lot of people had one).
May 14, 2004 3:14:40 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gameboy.advance,alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,rec.games.video.nintendo,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,rec.games.video.sony (More info?)

> Actually, Sony's electronics sales have been down because the cheaper
> manufacturers are beginning to match their new features very quickly. The
> mass market (ie., Joe Six Pack) has a real tendency to want to pay less
for
> the same thing.

I work at the god forsaken place that is best buy. (its god forsaken i am
sick of seing american big box stores invade my country, but no matter). I
can say with absolute certainty that the average customer who has not done
their own research will want the sony, even if i show him the JVC right next
to is that I think is better.Or the Toshiba that has much better colour
reproduction for $100 less. He still wants to sony. He doesn't want a
"second class product".

> That's why the PS2 is now half of what it was launched at. In fact, all
of
> the systems are now half of what they launched at. Hmmm.

Notice that it took the PS2 a LOT longer to come down in price, because it
had the advnatage of mindshare. Never underestimate mindshare.

> > What you say is true. Though you ignore that Xbox had the "cool" factor
> > going for it right from the begining, and the Cube, sadly, did not.
Before
> > Xbox even launched I knew a LOT of people who were completely psyched.
>
> That's true, but I don't think it was based on price. I think it was
based
> on marketing, on the fact that it was more powerful and MS was going to
make
> sure that you knew it. Not nearly as more powerful as people were lead to
> believe, but it did have the advantage, and MS made the most of it.

The stupid thing is, Xbox is more powerful is about the same way that a Game
Gear is more powerful than a Gameboy. If you take away the colour screen,
you have nearly identical hardware, right down to the processor.

>
> Remember, the Gamecube was designed to compete with the Dreamcast and PS2,
> not the XBox. If that had been the case, the Gamecube would have been the
> clear technology leader. The "cool" machine. So why keep the price low?
> Because Sony could easily undercut them if they didn't design the system
to
> be inexpensive to manufacture. They figured this way it would be more
> power, same price, and they could match any likely PS2 price cut without
> heavily subsidizing the system. They also planned on courting third
parties
> with lower developer costs than the PS2, which would allow them to charge
> higher license fees and still offer the same or even better profitability.

Despite all my arguments agains't intorducing at a lower price that the
competition, I actually think $199 is the sweet spot for a console. I never
buy consoles at launch because $299 is simply too much for something that
will soon be outdated, and that's can't be upgraded.


>
> However, the XBox put the Gamecube into a "tweener" position, not only in
> hardware power, but in the critical ease of development area Nintendo was
> counting on. To make things worse, MS gave the XBox a huge advertising
> budget and was obviously not afraid to lose billions on their first
console
> try. Nintendo's failure to adapt to this new situation was a serious
> problem. They stuck to the same license fee structure, which was a
> disaster, and was probably the biggest reason for losing third party
support
> early on. Why develop for the Gamecube when you could develop for the
> PS2/XBox instead at a much lower price? In the marketing arena, Microsoft
> was spending hundreds of millions of dollars to push third party games, a
> good way to make friends with third party developers. Nintendo never
> countered that, and they also failed to counter the image that the console
> skewed young. The end result was a flow of third party support away from
> the Gamecube and to the XBox, which obviously became a self fulfilling
> prophecy after a while.
>

Exactly.

> > Not bloody likely. This third pilar thing is just a way to fend of some
of
> > the inevitable whining from people who recently nought GBAs or SPs.
>
> Yes and no. I think that they really do want to keep the GBA viable.
Keep
> in mind, they also have no certainty over whether the DS concept will fly
or
> not.

Perhaps not before E3, but now? The damn thing stole the show.

> If Nintendo announced the DS as the next Gameboy, and it flopped,
> whoa - major problem. It's just too different from the traditional
Gameboys
> to take that chance. It also isn't compatible with GB or GB Color games,
> and that would be an issue if this was being marketed as the next Gameboy.

I don't think so. I mean, I had personally though it was time to abandon
backwards compatabilty and built a true next gen handheld using a media
other than carts. I did not expect Nintendo to again and maintain
compatabilty by using to slots. Bonus, I guess. I still have reservations
about the media they chose. 128mb is a bug imporvement over the GBA's
average of 16mb, but it's going to be quite restrictive compare to the PSP.
I think audio and texture wuality will be the biggest losers, or perhaps
game lenght with be sacrificed in favour of better audio and textures.

On another note, we have not had it confirmed that GB/GBC games don't work,
and I am inclined to think that they DO WORK. The reason being that the GBA
did not emulate the GBC hardware, it was actually there, as I am sure you
are aware. This meant that many lazy ass developers, much to my furstration,
relied on the GBC sound hardware for music and or sound effects in GBA
games. Even top teir games like Golden Sun were obviously using GBC hardware
for some of the sound effects. What happens to the sound of these games when
played on a DS?

That's why I think that GBC games will work just as they did on GBA. The
guts of the GBA are incredibly cheap these days, there's no reason not to
inlcude them. But hey, who knows.


>
> On that subject, after watching the hands on tour video at Gamespot, I'm
> pretty sure it will do very well. Some of the stuff they showed with the
> touch screen & stylus was pretty amazing. It provides a totally new level
> of control over a game. The WarioWare demo is obviously a great example
of
> some of the neat stuff you can do with it. They also have a tech demo
where
> you can carve things, and the guy carved a rotating watermelon with the
> stylus. Doesn't sound like much, does it? But my jaw dropped when I saw
it
> done. He deformed a 3D object, in real time, with fine motor control,
> effortlessly.

I have seen the video. Very impressive. A completle pointless excersize, to
be sure. but neat anyway. It brings to mind many possiblities. Perhaps we
could see a resurgence of PC style point and click adventure games on this
handheld? I rememeber one puzzle in Leisure Suit Larry three had you carving
a peice of wood into erotic art. One the DS you could be required to
actually carve it in order to pass, instead of just typing "carve wood".
There could be hints left around as to whay needed to be carved, and
then....

Or what if you had to write on the wall in a certain place?
Perhaps using the microphone it would be necessary to leave a message on
someones answering machine at a certain time.

Endless potential.

> They also mentioned on another video that the DS will be able to send
games
> across the wireless connections, so that for instance, one cartridge could
> provide everything for a four player multiplayer game. If it can do that
> with the full version of a multiplayer game, and not just cut down levels,
> that's going to be huge.

Yes, deifnitly one of the most exciting things yet. Plus Nintendo has stated
that online play will be possible, and that it would be free, since they
don't agree that charging for online play is a good business model.

> > the Gameboy dynasty since Game Gear (which oddly no one seem to
> acknowledge
> > how popular it actually was, game gear lasted fives years againt
gameboy
> > and a hell of a lot of people had one).
>
> Yeah. The strange thing is that one of the problems that did in the Game
> Gear was poor battery life, and here Sony is, releasing a handheld that
will
> only last 2-2.5 hours before needing to be recharged. I find that to be
> bizarre, I really thought it was a typo at first, but apparently that's
what
> they are saying. Granted, it won't actually eat expensive batteries...
but
> 2 hours before I have to start looking for a place to plug it in? They'll
> have to improve that, there's no way I'm going to spend a penny on the
thing
> unless the battery lasts at least 5-6 hours, and preferably closer to 10.

It doesn't stand a chnace with battery life that poor. I honeslty never
thought Sony would make a mistake like that...
Anonymous
May 14, 2004 3:37:20 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gameboy.advance,alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,rec.games.video.nintendo,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,rec.games.video.sony (More info?)

"Leon Dexter" <leondexterNOSPAM@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:vTMoc.18635$V97.12144@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...

> I agree, but only partly. The PS2 had a much lousier launch lineup than
the
> Gamecube (Super Monkey Ball alone made it a great launch library in my
> opinion), but what it had that the Gamecube didn't is a lot of
expectation.
> People--or at least gamers--knew there were a lot of hot games on the way
> for it. They knew it had a lot of backing, and that sequels to big
> Playstation franchises were in the works. Of course, there was the DVD
> player thing, too...
> With the Gamecube, we all "knew" that the big Nintendo franchises would
show
> up someday, too, but there hadn't been all that much previewed. I think
if
> Nintendo had video to show as impressive as the Metal Gear Solid one from
> the pre-PS2 launch (this E3's Zelda video, for example) then they could
have
> had enough momentum for a great launch and a good post-launch continuation
> as well, even without the big Mario game they were missing.
>

True, but the PS2 wasn't competing with anyone at the time and by the time
the Cube was released, the PS2 was firmly rooted with excellent games.
I basically bought all three systems on or near launch and all the launch
titles were not up to snuff (except for Halo).
I was still a very happy camper with Madden 2001 and SSX.
May 15, 2004 1:55:12 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gameboy.advance,alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,rec.games.video.nintendo,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,rec.games.video.sony (More info?)

In article <c7vn0k$okv$1@newsfeed.th.ifl.net>,
"Mantorok" <None@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

> I'm not even a handheld inclined gamer, but the DS has given me hope that
> handheld gaming can be a lot more FUN than I first thought.

DS may turn out to be the Virtual GameBoy of this decade.

Supposedly, Nintendo is developing the real successor to GBA, with much
better technology and it's due in 1-2 years.
Anonymous
May 15, 2004 1:47:34 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gameboy.advance,alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,rec.games.video.nintendo,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,rec.games.video.sony (More info?)

Nick Vargish <nav+posts@bandersnatch.org> writes:
> p.s. Unfortunately, even though people say they would support the
> small, local, mom-n-pop shops before the Megalomarts come... It turns
> out that they'd rather save the 10% that the giant stores offer thanks
> to economies of scale.

Yeah, the horror of walmart basically comes down to `people are greedy
morons'.

[Which is not to say the owners of walmart aren't evil bastards that use
underhanded methods, but ultimately they can only succeed if people shop
there.]

-Miles
--
The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources.
--Albert Einstein
May 15, 2004 1:47:35 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gameboy.advance,alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,rec.games.video.nintendo,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,rec.games.video.sony (More info?)

"Miles Bader" <miles@gnu.org> wrote in message
news:87d6568qjd.fsf@tc-1-100.kawasaki.gol.ne.jp...
> Nick Vargish <nav+posts@bandersnatch.org> writes:
> > p.s. Unfortunately, even though people say they would support the
> > small, local, mom-n-pop shops before the Megalomarts come... It turns
> > out that they'd rather save the 10% that the giant stores offer thanks
> > to economies of scale.
>
> Yeah, the horror of walmart basically comes down to `people are greedy
> morons'.
>
> [Which is not to say the owners of walmart aren't evil bastards that use
> underhanded methods, but ultimately they can only succeed if people shop
> there.]


Unfirtunately that's not ture, because invariably what happnes is the other
store close down after wal-mart enters a market, leaving consumers with no
choice.
May 17, 2004 11:55:09 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gameboy.advance,alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,rec.games.video.nintendo,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,rec.games.video.sony (More info?)

> > I work at the god forsaken place that is best buy. (its god forsaken i
am
> > sick of seing american big box stores invade my country, but no matter).
I
> > can say with absolute certainty that the average customer who has not
done
> > their own research will want the sony, even if i show him the JVC right
> next
> > to is that I think is better.Or the Toshiba that has much better colour
> > reproduction for $100 less. He still wants to sony. He doesn't want a
> > "second class product".
>
> That's more due to Sony's brand recognition than a higher price.

Didn't I just say that?

They are
> still generally considered to be a premium brand.

If course, the fact that they are considered a premium brand has nothing to
do with them actually being better... Toshiba and Panasoinic both offer
higher quality for the same price.


> > > That's why the PS2 is now half of what it was launched at. In fact,
> all
> > of
> > > the systems are now half of what they launched at. Hmmm.
> >
> > Notice that it took the PS2 a LOT longer to come down in price, because
it
> > had the advnatage of mindshare. Never underestimate mindshare.
>
> I don't, but is that due to the price? Can you seriously say that the PS2
> would not have dominated the market if it had been released at $199
instead
> of $299?

Of course not, and I never suggested such a ridiculous thing. Nor did I say
that the Gamecube would have dominiated had it been laucnhed at $299. I said
that the Gamecube was perceived as a cheaper, low end product compared to
the PS2, and that was because it was released at a lower price. The general
public doesn't even consider than the system is cheaper because its a more
efficiently designed system.

> Not only would it have dominated, but I think it would have taken
> off even more quickly than it did. How many people would have waited
before
> buying one at that price? Obviously that was unnecessary and the demand
for
> the product was high enough to keep the price up, and losses on the
hardware
> down. A good deal for Sony, but not something that Nintendo or Microsoft
> could emulate.

You are way out in left field, arguing against points I never made.


> > Perhaps not before E3, but now? The damn thing stole the show.
>
> Sure, but will people buy it? That remains to be seen.

I think there is little doubt. Not that this is a good indicator, but the
the DS board at GameFAQs had nearly four times as much traffic as the PSP
board despite the fact that the PSP board has been around longer.

>
> Hard to say. Obviously the graphics on the DS won't be as demanding as
for
> the PSP, so there won't be as much need for storage to hold high res
> textures. At least the cards are small, cheap, and fast. That's a major
> improvement over the old cartridges.

I am skeptical about how much cheaper the cards will really be. They appear
to be a variation on compact flash, and those aren't exactly cheap,
especially not with a 128mb capacity.

BTW, I had a little time on my hands today, so I put together this
comparison of the Graphics between Mario Kart for the DS, N64, and the GC.

http://www.inthelimelight.net/mariokartcompare.jpg



> > That's why I think that GBC games will work just as they did on GBA. The
> > guts of the GBA are incredibly cheap these days, there's no reason not
to
> > inlcude them. But hey, who knows.
>
> It's straight from Nintendo. In one of the interviews, a Nintendo exec
> mentioned that the DS will not be compatible with GB or GB Color games.

Okay, I'll assume that's the case, for now.

> > > 2 hours before I have to start looking for a place to plug it in?
> They'll
> > > have to improve that, there's no way I'm going to spend a penny on the
> > thing
> > > unless the battery lasts at least 5-6 hours, and preferably closer to
> 10.
> >
> > It doesn't stand a chnace with battery life that poor. I honeslty never
> > thought Sony would make a mistake like that...
>
> Little "eminem" has been arguing with me over this, but based on what Kaz
> Hirai said it sounds like the 2.5 hours would apply to any graphics
> intensive game that streams data off of the optical disk. I guess we'll
> see, but this is going to be a problem if that's true.
>

The problem is that Sony fans are such a dumb group, they might just buy it
anyway.
May 18, 2004 6:53:39 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gameboy.advance,alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,rec.games.video.nintendo,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,rec.games.video.sony (More info?)

radeonr420@yahoo.com (R420) wrote in message

> $199
>
> according to EBgames.com and Gamestop.com

Laughable. That just means EB is trying to weasel as many pre-orders
as possible and they're absolutely sure it won't be more than $200.

$200. Sheesh, that's what the Gamecube launched for. Who do you
think they are? Sony?


My prediction:

DS launches at $130. GBA SP drops to $80 at the same time and the
normal GBA is killed off completely (if it hasn't been already). A
year later they kill the GBA SP and drop the DS price to $80-100 and
maybe release a "DS SP" of sorts. One that doesn't look so queer, or
so we can hope.


And again, slightly OT:

The 2.5 hour battery life of the PSP will be a source of constant
complaints. We'll see a revision with longer battery life as soon as
Sony can get one out the door, and like with all Sony products, I'll
be waiting for the first revision before I bite.
Anonymous
May 19, 2004 5:37:48 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.nintendo.gameboy.advance,alt.games.video.nintendo.gamecube,rec.games.video.nintendo,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,rec.games.video.sony (More info?)

"nobody" <a_noether_theorem@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b7e5b017.0405181353.1cd229b1@posting.google.com...
> radeonr420@yahoo.com (R420) wrote in message
>
> > $199
> >
> > according to EBgames.com and Gamestop.com
>
> Laughable. That just means EB is trying to weasel as many pre-orders
> as possible and they're absolutely sure it won't be more than $200.
>
> $200. Sheesh, that's what the Gamecube launched for. Who do you
> think they are? Sony?
>
> My prediction:
>
> DS launches at $130. GBA SP drops to $80 at the same time and the
> normal GBA is killed off completely (if it hasn't been already). A
> year later they kill the GBA SP and drop the DS price to $80-100 and
> maybe release a "DS SP" of sorts. One that doesn't look so queer, or
> so we can hope.

The only way they would kill off the SP that quickly is if the DS was
outselling it by a huge margin. Anyway, I think it's more likely that they
would first drop the price of the SP to around the $60 range, rather than
just kill it off.

> And again, slightly OT:
>
> The 2.5 hour battery life of the PSP will be a source of constant
> complaints. We'll see a revision with longer battery life as soon as
> Sony can get one out the door, and like with all Sony products, I'll
> be waiting for the first revision before I bite.

I bet you're right.
!