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GTX 4xx vs HD 68xx??

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a b U Graphics card
March 10, 2011 5:51:08 PM

I was thinking of getting a graphics card this month and have a choice between GTX 460 , HD 6850 and HD 6870 , Palit GTX 460 was the cheapest GTX 460 1GB i found and its 10$ cheaper than HIS HD 6850, while the cheapest HD 6870 was VERTEX3D and only 1$ more is Powercolor OC HD 6870. I don't want a 768mb card so i checked only the 1gb versions.

I live in Poland so the prices might be a little higher than in US and other countries.. So my budget is around 200$ and

Palit GTX 460 is 180$ 650/3400
Palit Sonic GTX 460 - 213$ 675/3600
GAINWARD GTX 460 - 201$ 648/3400
GAINWARD Golden Sample - 215$ 700/3900
MSI GTX 460 - 210$ 700/3400
Gigabyte GTX 460 - 220 $ 730/3400
Zotac GTX 465 OC 820/3400 - 220 $ - I don't think it's the best choice but still..
HIS HD 6850 - 190$ 775/4000
Sapphire HD 6850 - 205$ 775/4000
MSI HD 6850 - 210 $ 820/4400
Vertex 3d - 233$ 900/4200
Powercolor - 234$ 940/4400

Some of them i can find cheaper i believe...
... So these are the cheapest i found, and yeah i need one for Gaming, my resolution is 1680x1050 and 500W PSU
Gonna play newest games, maybe a bit of overclocking , surely no CF/SLI cause my Mobo doesn't support them, i think AMD card would be better as i have an integrated ati 3000 and Phenom II , so i can hybrid crossfire 'em.

Phenom II X4 955 atm @ 3,2GHZ
Asus M4A78LT-M
500W PSU
4GB DDR3 1333MHZ
1TB HDD

I can also pay a little more and get other company card like MSI, but not the GIGABYTE or Asus cause they are too expensive.. I want a card that will worth the money for at least 1 year.. Also i want a good cooling system as i've read that the AMD cards get pretty hot while Geforces have high power consumption..

All of them have 2 year warranty *well maybe MSI 3 years*

So should i get one of these or go for MSI/something else or a newer card.. like HD 69xx/ GTX 5xx, but they are over 300$ :(  . Maybe i should get something like HD 5670 cause it has Dx 11 and is quite strong + my ati 3000?

More about : gtx 4xx 68xx

a b U Graphics card
March 10, 2011 6:57:16 PM

The 465 is a hair faster than the 460, but not worth the extra heat, noise and power draw, especially with only a 500w psu. My vote is for the MSI gtx 460, unless you want eyefinity.
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a c 124 U Graphics card
March 10, 2011 7:01:02 PM

460 is a great card and a great price, but for 1080p I'd want a little more performance.

For me I'd be looking at a 6870 or a 560 Ti which are pretty much the same price. The 560 is a tad better I think. But I'd take the 6870 over the 460.

Also, 5850s are right in that price range, and they are very good cards as well ;) 
a b U Graphics card
March 10, 2011 7:35:41 PM

unfortunately the 58xx's are too expensive, and HD 6850 is better than 5830 and cost almost the same while HD 6870 is better than 5850 and cost less here :(  5870 is out cause for it's price i can get HD 6950 :( 

GTX 560 Ti is around 300$ here, but i believe that HD 6870 would be better in Hybrid CF than the GTX 560

Isn't MSI HD 6850 better than MSI GTX 460?

And well, i don't want eyefinity.
a b U Graphics card
March 10, 2011 7:52:27 PM

^They are about the same, depends on which game as to which is faster but they are usually within an FPS or 2 of each other. Just depends on feature and brand preference. The 460 generally does better in DX11 titles so I would go with it.
a c 124 U Graphics card
March 10, 2011 7:52:43 PM

Oh... your prices are messed up then lol.

Ok so now that that's been explained, well the 6870 is definitely better than the 460 so that would be my choice, but a 460 definitely gives decent 1080p performance and will save you a few bucks. And yeah the 6850 is around the same as a 460 but I think the 460 is a bit better.

I'm pretty sure you can't hybrid CF a 6870... As far as I know you can only use hybrid on some 3xxx and 4xxx cards.
a b U Graphics card
March 10, 2011 7:59:17 PM

i made some research about the GTX 560 Ti's:

Gainward GTX 560 822/4008 - 300$
Palit GTX 560 822/4000 - 303$
MSI Twin FROZR II 880/4200 - 306$
GTX 560 Ti 822/3288 - 306.3$
GIGABYTE GTX 560 900/4000 - 306$
Gainward GTX 560 900/4200 - 333$
MSI Twin FROZR II 1020/4500 - 315$

and also the HD 69xx :

Sapphire HD 6950 2GB - 323$ 800/5000
XFX HD 6950 1GB - 323$ 800/5000
GIGABYTE 1GB - 339$ 870/5000

Tried not to take ones which are over 340$
a b U Graphics card
March 10, 2011 8:06:51 PM

But the Ati 3000 is an integrated on my board , doesn't it mean that i can have a PCIe 2.0 x16 card CF'ed with it?
a c 124 U Graphics card
March 10, 2011 8:21:38 PM

shrkbay said:
But the Ati 3000 is an integrated on my board , doesn't it mean that i can have a PCIe 2.0 x16 card CF'ed with it?


No, that would more likely kill the performance.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/2398

Quote:
Hybrid CrossFire requires two components: a Hybrid CrossFire chipset and supporting graphics card. The chipset part is the forthcoming RS780, a successor to the AMD 690G and an integrated graphics version of the AMD 790 chipset. The RS780 will ship with an integrated RV610 graphics core, the heart of the ATI Radeon HD 2400 Pro. AMD insists that the RS780G's integrated graphics is fundamentally unchanged from the Radeon HD 2400, so we should expect a similar level of performance (AMD estimated 3 - 4x the 3DMark '06 score of the 690G, but gave no information on actual gaming tests).

Unfortunately, the first incarnation of Hybrid Crossfire with the RS780 will only really work with the upcoming Radeon HD 3400 series GPUs. If you stick a Radeon HD 3400 card (the 3450 and 3470 will arrive early next year), both the integrated RV610 graphics and the Radeon HD 3400 will work in tandem during 3D games. Where possible the two will employ a basic AFR CrossFire mode where each GPU is responsible for rendering its own frame. Since the two GPUs should be relatively well matched in terms of performance, load balancing shouldn't be a major problem. AMD told us that it has seen an increase in performance of anywhere from 40 - 70% in games like Unreal Tournament 3, Crysis and Call of Duty 4. We didn't receive any more guidance on performance.

The performance aspect of the technology won't work with any other cards, not to mention that there wouldn't be a performance benefit from running a Radeon HD 3870 and lowly RS780 integrated graphics in CrossFire. Hybrid CrossFire will allow you to have multi-monitor support across your integrated and discrete GPUs however

March 10, 2011 8:27:51 PM

get the MSI 6850
a b U Graphics card
March 10, 2011 8:32:35 PM

oh thought Hybrid CF is like 1+1=2 :( 
but well at least now i know that my integrated card doesnt give me any advantage if i take Ati card not the NVidia, well i still have time to choose :) 
a b U Graphics card
March 11, 2011 6:07:27 AM

I think i'll take one of these:

MSI HD 6850 - 207$ 820/4400
ASUS HD 6870 - 226$ 915/
Sapphire HD 6850 - 205$ 775/4000
HIS HD 6850- 196$ 775/4000
Powercolor HD 6870 - 235$ 940/4400
Vertex3D HD 6870 - 233$ 900/4000

Gainward Golden Sample GTX 460 - 217$ 700/3900
GIGABYTE GTX 460 - 200 $ 730/3400
MSI GTX 460 - 200$ 700/3400


... So which one would have the best price vs performance ? :) 
a b U Graphics card
March 11, 2011 7:00:24 AM

MSI GTX 460
a b U Graphics card
March 11, 2011 7:21:50 AM

ow, but if anyone will post their opinion pls also say why you think so ;) 
a c 176 U Graphics card
March 11, 2011 7:54:35 AM

6850. Similar performance to the GTX460, but cheaper. What else do you need? Yes it (and the GTX460) will be a bit lacking in some games at 1080, but if you don't have the $$$ then it can't be helped.
a b U Graphics card
March 11, 2011 7:58:21 AM

isn't 1680x1050 720p not the 1080?
a c 176 U Graphics card
March 11, 2011 8:12:22 AM

720 is either 1280x720, or 1366x768. 1080 is 1920x1080. 720 is basically what PC gamers have been using since the mid 90s, 1024x768.
a b U Graphics card
March 11, 2011 8:15:36 AM

well one more question :

What does "AMD Vision" give me?

Is it better than the "Intel/Nvidia Vision"? LOL - don't count it as a question
a b U Graphics card
March 11, 2011 12:18:01 PM

AMD Vision gives you nothing, it's just a marketing program, not a feature.
a b U Graphics card
March 11, 2011 1:14:32 PM

oh thought it could give me some boost to performance, but well another disappointment , not big but still
a c 124 U Graphics card
March 11, 2011 1:50:10 PM

4745454b said:
6850. Similar performance to the GTX460, but cheaper. What else do you need? Yes it (and the GTX460) will be a bit lacking in some games at 1080, but if you don't have the $$$ then it can't be helped.


I agree although I think the 6870 is a good card for the price too so if you can spend an extra $35 get that.
a b U Graphics card
March 11, 2011 2:06:25 PM

yeah i was thinking about that so i've to choose between
1.Asus HD 6870 915/4200 - 226$
2.MSI GTX 560 @ 1020/4500 305$
3.MSI HD 6850 @ 820/4400 207$
4.MSI GTX 460 @ 700/3400 208$
XFX/Sapphire HD 5850 - but not sure, cause the price is changing whole the time

if i'll get the 5850 under 200$ i'll go for it, if not then one of these, which i mentioned above,
a c 124 U Graphics card
March 11, 2011 2:10:51 PM

Honestly I don't think a 560 is worth $305 given the competition. Here, at ~$250 it's definitely worthwhile but that extra $50... nah. Asus 6870 would be my choice.
a b U Graphics card
March 11, 2011 2:12:27 PM

thx for your opinion :) 
a c 664 U Graphics card
March 11, 2011 4:41:27 PM

An overlclocked GTX 560 will put you at the performance level of a 6970 or GTX 570 for a lot less money.

a b U Graphics card
March 11, 2011 5:13:29 PM

1.Asus HD 6870 915/4200 - 226$
2.MSI GTX 560 @ 1020/4500 305$
3.MSI HD 6850 @ 820/4400 207$
4.MSI GTX 460 @ 700/3400 208$

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/GPU11/188

- as i can see from here difference between HD 6870 and GTX 560 is not big, and i think i won't give almost 80$ more for 2,4FPS higher result, also the HD 6850 kicks out the GTX 460 , so i have a choice between Asus HD 6870 and MSI HD 6850, and i think i'll choose asus
+ i can get 5870 for the price of GTX 560
a c 664 U Graphics card
March 11, 2011 5:22:41 PM

Those benchmarks are based on reference clocked cards and include the infamous AMD Image Quality "Optimization" that increased benchmark performance for the 6850 and 6870 by about 6-10% at the expense of image quality. The Image Quality Optimization has since been mostly removed from the 11.1 and 11.2 Catalyst drivers in response to the critcism AMD received.

http://www.guru3d.com/article/exploring-ati-image-quali...
"The optimization however allows ATI to gain 6% up to 10% performance at very little image quality cost. And I choose the words 'very little' here very wisely. The bigger issue and topic at hand here is no-matter what, image quality should be 100% similar in-between the graphics card vendors for objective reasons."

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-gtx-570-gf1...
"For the time being, we're going to have to leave everything at default and point out the observed and confirmed image quality issue currently affecting Radeon HD 6800-series cards. This may or may not become a factor in your buying decision, but right now, the bottom line is that Nvidia offers better texture filtering, regardless of whether you’re one of the folks who can appreciate it."
a b U Graphics card
March 11, 2011 5:27:15 PM

OK, but still 560 hasn't got as good performance vs price as Asus i mentioned *at least here*. But well i still will think about it, GTX 460 doesnt go home yet and Asus still remains 1. in my list
a b U Graphics card
March 11, 2011 6:12:34 PM

The 560's start at 230 bucks on Newegg, where did you find one for $305?
a c 124 U Graphics card
March 11, 2011 6:33:50 PM

^ Reread the posts guys, a 560 is a fantastic card for $230-250 here in NA but the cheapest one the OP can get is for just over $300! Totally NOT a good deal compared to what's out there. An extra $75 over the 6870 for 10% stock performance isn't worthwhile IMO when that's already 1/3 of the way to CF 6870s.
a b U Graphics card
March 11, 2011 6:34:22 PM

Im not from US.. im from poland but that's still not the worst price..
a c 664 U Graphics card
March 11, 2011 6:35:57 PM

It looks to me like everything is about $50 more than in the U.S., but those are also different units of currency.
a b U Graphics card
March 11, 2011 6:41:10 PM

if you would see the prices in Estonia *don't ask where it is* ... it's like 250 EUROS at least for HD 6870...
March 11, 2011 7:21:05 PM

For your budget, get Asus Direct CU or MSI Hawk GTX460.

You can get the GTX470 performance by OCing it to 850(GPU)-1700(Shader)-4000(Memory) easily with default voltage (1V). In addition, 930(GPU)-1860(Shader)-4200(Memory) should be possible as well with a bit more voltage added (0.063V).

GTX460 performs significantly better than the similarly priced HD6850 when both OCed to MAX.

Reference
GTX460: 675-1350-3600
HD6850: 775(GPU)-4000(Memory)

Max OC
GTX460: 930-1860-4200
HD6850: 950(GPU)-4600(Memory)

a c 664 U Graphics card
March 11, 2011 7:25:49 PM

The Nvidia cards scale better when overclocking as well. 6870's have minimal overclocking headroom.
a b U Graphics card
March 11, 2011 7:28:12 PM

i'll try to find one of these on my market, check the prices and if they will be OK, i'll get one. Thx
a c 124 U Graphics card
March 11, 2011 7:39:11 PM

Well, I can agree that the 68xx don't OC that well. Their stock clocks are too high already. That's one area where the 5850 is a beast and of course the 460 is no slouch either.
a b U Graphics card
March 11, 2011 7:40:26 PM

But one important thing, i won't OC to the max, only a bit :p 
a b U Graphics card
March 11, 2011 7:47:24 PM

what would perform better gtx 460 @ 750/1500/4000 or HD 6850 @ 850/4500?
what about stock speeds? which one performs better?
a b U Graphics card
March 12, 2011 10:36:38 AM

but won't they bottleneck with my cpu? and will they work OK with my mobo?
a b U Graphics card
March 12, 2011 12:31:58 PM

Made some damn long research and found these:

MSI HAWK GTX 460 780/3600 - 740zł - 250,8$ = 185 eur
EVGA GTX 460 720/3600 - 680zł - 230,5$ = 170 eur
GIGABYTE GTX 460 730/3400 - 659 - 223,3$ = 164,7 eur
MSI GTX 460 Cyclone 700/3400 - 622zł - 210,8$ = 155,5 eur
Gainward Golden Sample 700/3900 - 650 - 220,3$ = 162,5 eur

GTX 560 Ti MSI Twin FROZR 1020/4500 - 915zł - 310,1$ = 228,75 eur

Asus HD 6870 915/4200 - 680zł - 230,5$ = 170 eur
PowerColor HD 6870 940/4400 - 704zł - 238,6$ = 176 eur

Sapphire HD 5870 2GB - 783zł - 265,4$ = 195,75 eur

Vertex3D HD 6970 2GB 880/5500 - 990zł - 335,5$ = 247,5 eur

HIS HD 6850 775/4000 - 589zł - 199,6$ = 147,25 eur
MSI CYCLONE HD 6850 860/4400 - 663zł - 224,7$ = 165,75 eur
MSI OC EDITION HD 6850 820/4400 - 628zł - 212,8$ = 157 eur

I know there're some of the cards i mentioned before, but just to be sure, i posted 'em, so which one should i get and why? The exchange rates for me are 2,95 for USD and 4,00 for EUR. Screen resolution still same 1680x1050, M4A78LT-M mobo and Phenom II x4 955 BE CPU, 500W PSU. Maybe will overclock, but anyway only a bit...
a c 664 U Graphics card
March 12, 2011 2:47:20 PM

I would be looking at the MSI GTX 460 Cyclone if you are looking to get a great card for little money.
a b U Graphics card
March 12, 2011 3:27:30 PM

^ thx for your opinion matto ;) 

Derbixrace, are you from poland? and yeah this Vertex would be around 700zł with shipping.. so asus would be a bit better i think :p 
a b U Graphics card
March 12, 2011 3:41:40 PM

lol no im not from poland im from finland, i just searched for the best price of a card in a polish site ;) 
a b U Graphics card
March 12, 2011 3:51:06 PM

oh ok :p 
a b U Graphics card
March 12, 2011 3:56:31 PM

what about 5870 and 6970 i listed, are they worth buying for that price? Which is the best bang for buck of them? *if you can't say from all then say from each category :p *
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