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Does the gtx 560 suffer from OpenGL issues like the 400 series?

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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March 14, 2011 8:39:23 PM

(This has been reposted by me, no one answered the first time, might have had it in the wrong place)

Hello, this is my first time posting!

Okay let me set this up first. Im building my new computer, but Im stuck right now on video cards. I have decided that I will choose between an Nvidia Geforce gtx 560 (standard or Over-Clocked, not sure), and a HD Radeon 6950 2gb. Price wise they are pretty close (regular 560 is around $250, O.Cs are like $270, while the 6950 is around $300, but with the rebates its like $255-270). While Im a long time Nvidia user, I considering a Radeon partially due to the fact that my new computer will be AMD. The other reason is Nvidia related. The reason I never skipped over the gtx 400 series completely, was because I heard about them having major problems with OpenGL. This is what wikipedia says about this problem:

"It has been reported by users as well as developers [13] [14] [15] [16] [17] [18] [19] [20] that nVidia 400-series cards have severe performance problems with 3D content-creation applications such as Autodesk Maya and 3ds Max, Blender, Rhinoceros 3D—as well as some OpenGL games—to the extent that video cards two generations older routinely outperform 400-series in such applications and games. The problem, which affects any OpenGL application using textures, involves accessing framebuffer contents or storing data on the GPU. So far, one customer using an OpenGL based application got a response from nVidia support indicating that the behavior is expected in the GeForce 400 line of cards, and no software update will help improving the performance of the hardware.[21]. The problem can be worked around with a hack by using a CUDA memory copy to access the buffer object."

Now my question is this: Does the gtx 500 series suffer from this same problem too? Is it too early to tell yet? Or should the 500 series have no problems here (even though they share the same chip...I think)?

Because if that is the case, Id rather go with the radeon, and avoid these problems all together. My new computer will be a gaming rig, but not just for the latestest and greatest but for gmaes that are several years old, I really don't want to have a video card that peforms badly with them.

Any one have any answers? Im sure I will be happy with either card, though the 560 (the O.C.ed anyway) is supposed to be a little faster.

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a c 106 U Graphics card
March 14, 2011 9:12:30 PM

The 500 series is the same architecture as the 400 series. The only difference is a few efficiency enhancements and much better yields. In short, don't expect Open GL compatibility to be much different between 500 and 400 series GPUs. I'm sure there are better driver optmizations for the 500 series cards, but in the end it's a gaming card so nVidia isn't too keen to optimize it for professional apps when they think you should be buying their quatro cards instead. The quatro's and firegls are better driver optimized for Open GL apps. If you're just looking between the 560 and the 6950 though, stick with the 6950
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a c 172 U Graphics card
March 15, 2011 12:33:01 AM

i wasnt even aware that there was this problem. definitely gonna stick with ati for my next card now. There arent many games that use opengl but enough that this bothers me. Are there any particular games you can point out that have that issue?
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a c 173 U Graphics card
March 15, 2011 12:43:18 AM

For most games you will never notice the issue unless you are gaming retro like late 90s early 2000s games or using light weight games that are multy platform such as osx/linux ect.
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a c 172 U Graphics card
March 15, 2011 9:53:26 AM

i know with my current gpu i have issues running the original America Mcgees Alice, runs like a dog compared to my old system (ati 9800xt). I believe that was based on the old quake engine and used opengl. but my card is not the newer 400 series its an 8800.
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a b U Graphics card
March 15, 2011 5:23:38 PM

I should point out that recently, I noticed ATI was having some OpenGL issues, which isn't surprising given their history...[Doom3 *cough*].

Anyway, we'll see when Rage comes out. I expect cards to die in OpenGL performance, to be honest.
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March 16, 2011 12:03:20 AM

Hey, answers! Lol, the first time I posted this, I got nothing. I might have had the question in the wrong category.

With that said, while there are not a ton of games that use OpenGL, there are still some of them out there, and not just games from the 90's or early 2000's, some recent games too (mostly ID software games, like Wolfenstein, Enemy Territory: Quake Wars, and the upcoming Rage). For anyone who wants to see the list of games that use Open GL games, here it is:

18 Wheels of Steel
Alien Arena 2008
America's Army (Mac OS X and Linux versions)
American McGee's Alice
Amnesia: The Dark Descent
Aquaria
Arkanoid: Space Ball
Baldur's Gate 2 – Defaults to D3D
Brink (upcoming)
BZFlag
Bus Driver
Celestia
City of Heroes
City of Villains
Call of Duty (series)
Commandos
Cortex Command
Counter-Strike
Darwinia - Defaults to D3D
Deus Ex - Defaults to D3D
Doom 3
Doom 3: Resurrection of Evil
Doom 4 (upcoming)
Droid Assault
Dwarf Fortress
Earth 2150
Enemy Territory: Quake Wars
Far Cry – Defaults to D3D
Frets On Fire
FlightGear
FooBilliard
Half-Life series
Half-Life 2 series (Mac OS X versions)
Heretic II
Heroes of Newerth
Hexen II
Hitman
Homeworld 2
Hotei's Jewels: Relax
IL-2 Sturmovik
Keepsake
Left 4 Dead (Mac OS X version)
Left 4 Dead 2 (Mac OS X version)
Max Payne
Minecraft
Neverball and Neverputt
Neverwinter Nights
Nexuiz
OpenArena
osu!
Pacific Fighters [1]
Penumbra: Overture
Penumbra: Black Plague
Penumbra: Requiem
Performous
Portal (Mac OS X version)
Portal 2 (Mac OS X version) (upcoming)
Prey
Quake series
Rage (upcoming)
Red Faction
Regnum Online
Return to Castle Wolfenstein
RuneScape (High Detail Mode) - Uses the Java OpenGL library
Savage: The Battle for Newerth
Savage 2: A Tortured Soul
Scorched 3D
Second Life
Serious Sam
Serious Sam 2
Soldier of Fortune series
Shogo: Mobile Armor Division (in the Linux, AmigaOS, and Mac OS X versions)
Ski-Doo X Team Racing
Spore
Spring
StarCraft II (Mac OS X version)
Starsiege: Tribes
Star Wars Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy
Star Wars Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast
Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic
Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II The Sith Lords
StepMania
Stronghold
The Chronicles of Riddick: Escape from Butcher Bay
Titan Attacks
TORCS
Trainz
Tribes 2
Tux Racer
Ultratron
Unreal Gold – Defaults to 3dfx Glide
Unreal Tournament
Unreal Tournament 2004
Urban Terror
Warzone 2100
Warcraft 3 - Defaults to D3D in Windows
Wolfenstein
Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory
World of Goo
World of Warcraft - Defaults to D3D in Windows
Worms: Reloaded
Wurm Online
X-Plane

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_OpenGL_programs

That actually seems to be more than just a few, lol. If the gtx 500 series is that closely related to the 400 series, than its possible that that either series will have problems with some, or most of the games listed above.
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March 16, 2011 12:06:44 AM

iam2thecrowe said:
i wasnt even aware that there was this problem. definitely gonna stick with ati for my next card now. There arent many games that use opengl but enough that this bothers me. Are there any particular games you can point out that have that issue?


I found out about this on wikipedia by accident, so I don't know of any myself, but I did post a list of all the games that use OpenGL, so any of them may have those issues.
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March 16, 2011 12:15:53 AM

megamanx00 said:
The 500 series is the same architecture as the 400 series. The only difference is a few efficiency enhancements and much better yields. In short, don't expect Open GL compatibility to be much different between 500 and 400 series GPUs. I'm sure there are better driver optmizations for the 500 series cards, but in the end it's a gaming card so nVidia isn't too keen to optimize it for professional apps when they think you should be buying their quatro cards instead. The quatro's and firegls are better driver optimized for Open GL apps. If you're just looking between the 560 and the 6950 though, stick with the 6950


Thanks for the answer megamanx00! I think I am leaning towards a Radeon this time anyway, and the 6950 2 gb looks good. While I really like Nvidia (never had ati/amd radeon before), I think I will wait a generation or two to get another one, at least until they worked out the kinks in them (like OpenGL issues), then again maybe they never will. But for now, I think I will get a radeon.

So here is another question for you, or anyone else that would like to answer it:
For about $50-60 more (than the 6950), I can get a 6970. Is it worth the extra money? And no I don't want to flash my 6950 to make it into a 6970 either. Remeber Im trying to future proof my system. Will a 6950 hold up over the next couple of years as well as a 6970?
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a b U Graphics card
March 16, 2011 11:08:51 AM

Funny, considering how I have a bunch of these OpenGL titles, and they all run fine.

Then again, it was just a month ago that AMD broke OpenGL support...

Historically, NVIDIA has had much better OpenGL support, and I suspect any OpenGL "issues" are due to depriciation that occured within the OpenGL spec [or rather, within OpenGL 1.0-2.x].
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March 16, 2011 8:27:10 PM

gamerk316, this post was never about bashing Nvidia or saying that AMD was spectacular, I hope you are not taking it that way. I happened to see the wiki report on the gtx 400 series' serious problems with OpenGL, and it scared me into thinking that the 560, of which I was thinking about purchasing, may have the same issues. I have several of the games that I play that use OpenGL, and I don't want they to play badly when I get my new computer up and running. Thats why I even asked the question to begin with. Also I posted the list of games to show POTENTIAL programs that may have problems with nvidia cards, because at least some of them do, or else there would be no reports on any of these problems to begin with.


As for what has been posted on this thread, I think I will go and get an hd Radeon 6950 2 gb, with rebates they are the same price as a 560, and I have not heard of any major problems with them.

I have always been a fan of Nvidia, but will try AMD this time, after all, my new computer set up is AMD, so it might be cool to get an all AMD setup. In the next 2-4 cyears, when I go to upgrade my graphics card, I will probably go with Nvidia again, unless I find that I love the Radeon sooo much that I want more of them. To be honest, I will probably end up liking both brands, and using both of them in the years to come.

Also, thanks for the answers/opinions everyone.
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March 16, 2011 9:39:25 PM

Best answer selected by Sigmar.
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a c 271 U Graphics card
March 26, 2011 10:14:10 PM

This topic has been closed by Mousemonkey
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