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How bad is micro studering?

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a b U Graphics card
March 16, 2011 6:49:10 PM

Im new to this. But thinking to the future would like to add another 6950 to the mix. So what sort of issues can I expect and how bad will the MS be in most games?

More about : bad micro studering

a b U Graphics card
March 16, 2011 9:52:12 PM

I have 2 6870s with a 955 @ 4.0ghz and microstuttering is a non issue as far as I can tell... some games have minimal microstutter, but they had it with one card to begin with so I wouldnt worry about it and 6950 crossfire would be a killer combination
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a b U Graphics card
March 16, 2011 10:37:07 PM

Liu kang baking a pie said:
Depends on what's your LCDs native resolution.

60hz
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March 16, 2011 11:50:39 PM

cburke82 said:
60hz

and the resolution?

Ok for you to go cf and see the value of the 2nd gpu you need to do 2 things.

1. Get a monitor that's 1080p 120mhz or get another monitor or two with same resolution that you own now.

2. Get another psu. The TR2 series from Thermaltake are bad. You will have a lot of issues starting with bsods and underperforming gpus.

Get a 650w Corsair or Seasonic psu witch provides more oempf than two of those Tr2 put together
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a b U Graphics card
March 16, 2011 11:58:26 PM

^^^I do agree that he should replace the psu, but no way your gonna be playing at 120 fps to match that 120hz in most games though, 1080p and 60hz with a low response time is the bet single monitor configuration a gamer can hope for unless your going to spend over 1 k on an led or higher res monitor but I would say that crossfire 6950s would benefit a single 1080p display a lot into the future, thats a lot of gpu muscle...
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March 17, 2011 12:02:25 AM

Liu kang baking a pie said:
and the resolution?

Ok for you to go cf and see the value of the 2nd gpu you need to do 2 things.

1. Get a monitor that's 1080p 120mhz or get another monitor or two with same resolution that you own now.

2. Get another psu. The TR2 series from Thermaltake are bad. You will have a lot of issues starting with bsods and underperforming gpus.


Wow... Just wow.
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March 17, 2011 12:24:17 AM

jjb8675309 said:
^^^I do agree that he should replace the psu, but no way your gonna be playing at 120 fps to match that 120hz in most games though, 1080p and 60hz with a low response time is the bet single monitor configuration a gamer can hope for unless your going to spend over 1 k on an led or higher res monitor but I would say that crossfire 6950s would benefit a single 1080p display a lot into the future, thats a lot of gpu muscle...

so your saying that 6950 flashed to 6970s in cf won't be able to do 120fps in 1080p when 1 can do it? 2 of them are in the same league as the Gtx 580 which murder every game at 1600p.
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a b U Graphics card
March 17, 2011 12:36:27 AM

Liu kang baking a pie said:
so your saying that 6950 flashed to 6970s in cf won't be able to do 120fps in 1080p when 1 can do it? 2 of them are in the same league as the Gtx 580 which murder every game at 1600p.

Right now I would not see mega improvement. But lets say Crysis, I max everything out and 4XAA ill avg 39 FPS so with Xfire wouldent I get alot closer to getting the max 60 FPS my TV will allow? Also I am using my LCT TV not a monitor and it is at 1080p
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March 17, 2011 12:41:04 AM

cburke82 said:
Right now I would not see mega improvement. But lets say Crysis, I max everything out and 4XAA ill avg 39 FPS so with Xfire wouldent I get alot closer to getting the max 60 FPS my TV will allow? Also I am using my LCT TV not a monitor and it is at 1080p

please do me a favour. Go to the catalyst settings and see if vsync is on.
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a b U Graphics card
March 17, 2011 12:50:59 AM

Liu kang baking a pie said:
please do me a favour. Go to the catalyst settings and see if vsync is on.

well I have been trying to find all the settings in CCC for some time and cant find any of the 3d/gaming setting at all. the CCC help file says there should be a "game" tab and I dont have that. I have Un installed and re installed the whole driver pack 4 times and still dont see a game tab :(  I just checked and cant find a section where I can control vsync in CCC
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a c 173 U Graphics card
March 17, 2011 12:54:55 AM

cburke82 said:
well I have been trying to find all the settings in CCC for some time and cant find any of the 3d/gaming setting at all. the CCC help file says there should be a "game" tab and I dont have that. I have Un installed and re installed the whole driver pack 4 times and still dont see a game tab :(  I just checked and cant find a section where I can control vsync in CCC

if you cant find vsync, please go buy a ps3 and play that, pc gaming is way beyond you.
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March 17, 2011 1:00:15 AM

cburke82 said:
well I have been trying to find all the settings in CCC for some time and cant find any of the 3d/gaming setting at all. the CCC help file says there should be a "game" tab and I dont have that. I have Un installed and re installed the whole driver pack 4 times and still dont see a game tab :(  I just checked and cant find a section where I can control vsync in CCC

looooool
http://www.tweakguides.com/ATICAT_7.html
There you go lol
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a b U Graphics card
March 17, 2011 1:36:07 AM

Liu kang baking a pie said:
looooool
http://www.tweakguides.com/ATICAT_7.html
There you go lol

I know huh I have read that very article I dont have a #D tab or section in reg and advanced view and also the CCC in there pics looks nothing like the 11.2 im using
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March 17, 2011 2:18:03 AM

1. Open the CCC (Catalyst Control Center). Double-click on the red ATI tray icon in the right-bottom corner of your screen.

2. Check Advanced and click on Next

3. From the dropdown select 3D :

4. At the top go to the tab All , scroll down until you find Vertical refresh (that’s Vsync) and drag the bar to the left until it says Always Off:

http://windows7themes.net/how-to-disable-vsync-in-windo...
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a b U Graphics card
March 17, 2011 2:36:22 AM

Liu kang baking a pie said:
1. Open the CCC (Catalyst Control Center). Double-click on the red ATI tray icon in the right-bottom corner of your screen.

2. Check Advanced and click on Next

3. From the dropdown select 3D :

4. At the top go to the tab All , scroll down until you find Vertical refresh (that’s Vsync) and drag the bar to the left until it says Always Off:

http://windows7themes.net/how-to-disable-vsync-in-windo...

i dont have a red ati tray icon in the CCC app or windows task bar :( 
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March 17, 2011 3:50:10 AM

then reformat your hard drive and reinstall windows/drivers.
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a b U Graphics card
March 17, 2011 6:09:42 AM

lmulder said:
then reformat your hard drive and reinstall windows/drivers.

I would love to I dont have windows install disks however this was originaly a pre-built. It runs fine now I just can seem to get CCC to work. I was asking about micro studdering for the future I dont have 2 cards right now. So for now there are no issues guess I may have to find some windows disks if I want to do crossfire. i did just sent a tech support email over to AMD so we will see what they say lol.
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a c 173 U Graphics card
March 17, 2011 9:21:46 AM

download a program called driversweeper to remove all ati drivers. then download the most recent amd drivers and install them.
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a b U Graphics card
March 17, 2011 1:22:16 PM

Liu kang baking a pie said:
so your saying that 6950 flashed to 6970s in cf won't be able to do 120fps in 1080p when 1 can do it? 2 of them are in the same league as the Gtx 580 which murder every game at 1600p.



well maybe in COD 4 but the majority of newer games will struggle to keep minimums and even averages above 120fps. nope wrong maybe in a dx9 game your doing that but not in crysis, metro, BFBC2, just cause, alien v predator, crysis 2.... etc my 2 6870s are better than a single 580, that doesnt mean im going to vsync 120 hz bc I can't maintain 120 fps in most games, not even close to it, and there is no way your doing it either even with (dual 6970) basically a 6990s power... its not going to happen, maybe in a few games but other than that you have no clue what you are talking about, people do not game on a pc at 120hz because it makes the response time super slow, not to mention that its not practical because you will not produce 120 fps consistently not to even start talking about fps minimums, trust me people are still using 60hz, and do not recomend the op get a 120hz monitor for gaming because it makes no sense.
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a b U Graphics card
March 17, 2011 1:24:32 PM

OP: just remember, do not do this:

"1. Get a monitor that's 1080p 120mhz or get another monitor or two with same resolution that you own now. "

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a c 272 U Graphics card
March 17, 2011 1:37:06 PM

Liu kang baking a pie said:
1. Get a monitor that's 1080p 120mhz or get another monitor or two with same resolution that you own now.

I'm still trying to work out what this has to do with so called 'microstutter'.
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a b U Graphics card
March 17, 2011 2:34:47 PM

iam2thecrowe said:
download a program called driversweeper to remove all ati drivers. then download the most recent amd drivers and install them.

will that work better than the AMD software that removes drivers befor you install?
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a b U Graphics card
March 17, 2011 2:43:28 PM

jjb8675309 said:
OP: just remember, do not do this:

"1. Get a monitor that's 1080p 120mhz or get another monitor or two with same resolution that you own now. "

Yeah im fine on my 60hz 42inch lcd for now lol
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a b U Graphics card
March 17, 2011 2:53:37 PM

Mousemonkey said:
I'm still trying to work out what this has to do with so called 'microstutter'.


yeah resolution should have nothing to do with microstutter imo
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a c 272 U Graphics card
March 17, 2011 2:58:01 PM

jjb8675309 said:
yeah resolution should have nothing to do with microstutter imo

I think that whilst the jury may still be out as far as the causes go, resolution was never on the list of things to be considered.
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a b U Graphics card
March 17, 2011 3:11:51 PM

yeah I do notice some "microstutter" while using 6879 crossfire in BFBC2m but I think its mainly due to bogged down servers
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a c 272 U Graphics card
March 17, 2011 3:28:08 PM

jjb8675309 said:
yeah I do notice some "microstutter" while using 6879 crossfire in BFBC2m but I think its mainly due to bogged down servers

Surely that would be 'Ping lag' not microstutter? What about single player mode?
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a b U Graphics card
March 17, 2011 3:44:25 PM

yeah its no doubt ping lag as the single player is fine, furthermore these cards are supposed to scale well and I usually get around the performance of a 5970 since my cpu is only a p2 955 @ 4.0ghz, but my point is just that microstutter can be mis-diagnosed when the cause it actual other contributing factors
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a c 272 U Graphics card
March 17, 2011 4:02:04 PM

jjb8675309 said:
yeah its no doubt ping lag as the single player is fine, furthermore these cards are supposed to scale well and I usually get around the performance of a 5970 since my cpu is only a p2 955 @ 4.0ghz, but my point is just that microstutter can be mis-diagnosed when the cause it actual other contributing factors

That's what I was alluding to before when I said the jury was still out, from my own experiments over the years I think it's the CPU's that are used but that doesn't mean that they are bad CPU's, just not the right ones for a particular set of cards.
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a b U Graphics card
March 17, 2011 7:36:12 PM

^exactly, Im on board with that
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March 17, 2011 10:58:45 PM

jjb8675309 said:
well maybe in COD 4 but the majority of newer games will struggle to keep minimums and even averages above 120fps. nope wrong maybe in a dx9 game your doing that but not in crysis, metro, BFBC2, just cause, alien v predator, crysis 2.... etc my 2 6870s are better than a single 580, that doesnt mean im going to vsync 120 hz bc I can't maintain 120 fps in most games, not even close to it, and there is no way your doing it either even with (dual 6970) basically a 6990s power... its not going to happen, maybe in a few games but other than that you have no clue what you are talking about, people do not game on a pc at 120hz because it makes the response time super slow, not to mention that its not practical because you will not produce 120 fps consistently not to even start talking about fps minimums, trust me people are still using 60hz, and do not recomend the op get a 120hz monitor for gaming because it makes no sense.

but we ain't talking about two 6870s. We are talking about 2 x 6970 that can run 1600p without effort. Now what you think its going to do to the fps in 1080p. And you mention 4 games out of hundreds. BC2 is a game that's got bad coding and is cpu intensive especially online. Crysis got a huge sound engine in its game engine which your cpu must do. So that don't mean much. Then there's the 60mhz vsync issue where your fps goes half the refresh rate adding more graphic detail just knocks it down down down. that's why probably you don't get much fps with your two gpus because you got to hold them back running under 60fps where you couldve hold them back running under 120.
Btw Crysis use motion blur that you see in the movies that runs 24fps that's why 35fps look so smooth on it.
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March 17, 2011 11:03:38 PM

Mousemonkey said:
I'm still trying to work out what this has to do with so called 'microstutter'.

the OP already got a 6970 and want to upgrade to a 6970 Crossfire setup. That's the question in the opening thread. Now you think adding another gpu when the OP already can max out games on the current resolution will add any benefit?
Micro stutter happens btw running high resolutions with a slow disk setup.
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a c 272 U Graphics card
March 17, 2011 11:11:47 PM

Liu kang baking a pie said:
the OP already got a 6970 and want to upgrade to a 6970 Crossfire setup. That's the question in the opening thread. Now you think adding another gpu when the OP already can max out games on the current resolution will add any benefit?
Micro stutter happens btw running high resolutions with a slow disk setup.

I think so called 'microstutter' is caused by lack of onboard cache from what I've seen.
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a b U Graphics card
March 17, 2011 11:12:13 PM

Liu kang baking a pie said:
the OP already got a 6970 and want to upgrade to a 6970 Crossfire setup. That's the question in the opening thread. Now you think adding another gpu when the OP already can max out games on the current resolution will add any benefit?
Micro stutter happens btw running high resolutions with a slow disk setup.

I would like to get my hands on one of those sweet 10mb HDD's from your signature lol But really tho your saying if later on I go with crossfire and have a slow HDD thats where the micro studdering comes in? Would that mean I should upgrade to a 6 gb/s HDD or SSD at the same time?
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March 17, 2011 11:23:10 PM

Mousemonkey said:
I think so called 'microstutter' is caused by lack of onboard cache from what I've seen.

nope. The gpu uses its own ram as the buffers.
Problem is the game only loads bit for bit in the ram. Now when the data goes to the cpu and then offloaded to the gpu it has to wait. Now at high resolutions and the game is optimize to only load bit for bit in the ram the swapping between the ram and the hdd will make the gpu wait.
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a c 272 U Graphics card
March 17, 2011 11:27:13 PM

Liu kang baking a pie said:
nope. The gpu uses its own ram as the buffers.
Problem is the game only loads bit for bit in the ram. Now when the data goes to the cpu and then offloaded to the gpu it has to wait. Now at high resolutions and the game is optimize to only load bit for bit in the ram the swapping between the ram and the hdd will make the gpu wait.

That's your theory and I have mine.
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March 17, 2011 11:27:34 PM

cburke82 said:
I would like to get my hands on one of those sweet 10mb HDD's from your signature lol But really tho your saying if later on I go with crossfire and have a slow HDD thats where the micro studdering comes in? Would that mean I should upgrade to a 6 gb/s HDD or SSD at the same time?

lol. The micro stutter was ages ago and with some games. Especially if they don't load enough data in the ram. Some games you can edit the ini files to configure that. But that's not really a issue these days. But having a ssd won't be a bad choice but if its not in your budget then you don't have to worry about it. You can always do a cheap raid with your current disk setup
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a b U Graphics card
March 18, 2011 1:24:43 PM

Liu kang baking a pie said:
but we ain't talking about two 6870s. We are talking about 2 x 6970 that can run 1600p without effort. Now what you think its going to do to the fps in 1080p. And you mention 4 games out of hundreds. BC2 is a game that's got bad coding and is cpu intensive especially online. Crysis got a huge sound engine in its game engine which your cpu must do. So that don't mean much. Then there's the 60mhz vsync issue where your fps goes half the refresh rate adding more graphic detail just knocks it down down down. that's why probably you don't get much fps with your two gpus because you got to hold them back running under 60fps where you couldve hold them back running under 120.
Btw Crysis use motion blur that you see in the movies that runs 24fps that's why 35fps look so smooth on it.



nope 2 6970s are not handling 1600p at 120 fps, that performance will look terrible from the constant frame drops they will have. BF is far from poorly coded, just a lot going on with there physics engine which is run off the cpu, etc, not following your logic here so I will agree to disagree, and I still have not seen any true gamer using 120 hz so...
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a c 129 U Graphics card
March 18, 2011 1:50:16 PM

Mousemonkey said:
I'm still trying to work out what this has to do with so called 'microstutter'.

Me too.
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a c 129 U Graphics card
March 18, 2011 1:50:44 PM

jjb8675309 said:
yeah resolution should have nothing to do with microstutter imo

Agreed.
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a b U Graphics card
March 21, 2011 4:33:26 PM

iam2thecrowe said:
if you cant find vsync, please go buy a ps3 and play that, pc gaming is way beyond you.

If there is a problem with CCC where the tab is not there I dont think you could find it yourself. I build my system by myself and have OC my CPU flashed my GPU and it is all working fine except for the CCC problem. I think PC Gaming is not at all beyond me LMAO. I have talked with amd and they will only tell me to do a fresh install of windows. I have all the right drivers and C++ installs and the most up to date .net framwork. I think you should look at the whole picture befor you make comments like that lol.
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a b U Graphics card
March 21, 2011 4:34:48 PM

Best answer selected by cburke82.
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a b U Graphics card
March 21, 2011 5:17:58 PM

@Lui Kang

huh, what why the hell would you want a raid configuration for the OP ?

the best answer imo has very little to do with the discussion
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a c 129 U Graphics card
March 21, 2011 5:24:01 PM

Good luck to OP if that's the choice for best answer.
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a b U Graphics card
March 21, 2011 5:35:45 PM

ubercake said:
Good luck to OP if that's the choice for best answer.

just picked something so the thred showed as solved as the topic was slowly drifting to something not related to the question asked lol
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a c 129 U Graphics card
March 21, 2011 5:49:01 PM

Ah. OK. It did get a little crazy there.
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a b U Graphics card
March 21, 2011 6:25:47 PM

ubercake said:
Ah. OK. It did get a little crazy there.

seeing as you never addressed the question any thoughts on the microstudder issue. How is it with the SLI you got?
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a c 129 U Graphics card
March 21, 2011 6:36:36 PM

cburke82 said:
seeing as you never addressed the question any thoughts on the microstudder issue. How is it with the SLI you got?

It is absolutely non-existent. I run one 1080p 60Hz monitor with everything maxed and I mean everything (AA/AF/AA tranparency/tessellation). My framerates are often triple or more than the Hz my monitor has to offer. I've never had a need to turn on vsync.
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a b U Graphics card
March 21, 2011 6:43:47 PM

ubercake said:
It is absolutely non-existent. I run one 1080p 60Hz monitor with everything maxed and I mean everything (AA/AF/AA tranparency/tessellation). My framerates are often triple or more than the Hz my monitor has to offer. I've never had a need to turn on vsync.

Cool I hope the same goes for me when I get a second 6950. However I have a 42" LCD at 60hz I seem to get tearing with vsync off even when the frame rates are less than 60 lol. Maybe its not tearing? I get a semi transparent line going from the bottom of my screen to the top every 20-40 seconds with it off. I can play with it but if my screen wont do more than 60 FPS anyway I dont see a need to have more FPS. However when I play Crysis for some reason it will at times lock my frame rates at 50 or some times 25 lol I have a 6950 and it will cruze along at 60 ish and then BAM lock at 25 FPS for no reason.
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