tall guy john

Distinguished
May 27, 2011
13
0
18,510
Hello, I was looking for help with a new PC build, and would like the input of those more knowlegeable than me (which shouldn't be that hard lol). Well, here is my info per the How To Ask For New Build Advice thread...

Approximate Purchase Date: ASAP, but at least by the end of June

Budget Range: prefer below $2,500 US before any mail-in type rebates, but have about 100 dollars extra if needed for a really good reason...

System Usage from Most to Least Important: This needs to be multi-purpose, capable of entertainment, good gaming, college work, and well everything really

Parts Not Required: keyboard, mouse, monitor, speakers

Preferred Website(s) for Parts: newegg.com, or open to others that have similar sterling reputations

Country of Origin: USA

Parts Preferences: Intel CPU, full tower, all else negotiable, but would prefer reputable and long lasting over saving a buck or two

Overclocking: Maybe

SLI or Crossfire: Yes, but not yet

Monitor Resolution: I would like my rig to be easily capable of 1920x1200

Additional Comments: It needs to be relevant and capable in 6 years with only minor upgrades here and there (ie adding more memory, adding a graphics card for SLI, etc...

I appreciate everyones thoughts, and will include a list of parts I was thinking on. I would like your input, and if you have any ideas and/or substitutions I should make, please tell me with an explanation so I understand...

Thanks to everyone in advance!

[[strike]b]My possible build, running Windows 7 Ultimate x64 (includes prices from newegg before mail in rebates):[/b]

OPTICAL DRIVES:
SAMSUNG CD/DVD Burner Black SATA Model SH-222AB - OEM $20.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827151233
Pioneer Black Blu-ray Burner SATA BDR-206DBKS $113.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827129066

Card Reader:
AeroCool FP-01 55-in-1 Card Reader w/Flip-up LCD Screen $49.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820314001

Hard Drives:
Seagate Barracuda ST31000524AS 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive $59.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148697

Wireless Card:
Rosewill RNX-N300 IEEE 802.11b/g/n Wireless-N 2.0 PCI (1T2R) Up to 300Mbps download and 150 Mbps upload Data Rates/ WPA/WPA2 ... $21.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833166038

Graphics Cards:
EVGA SuperClocked 015-P3-1582-AR GeForce GTX 580 (Fermi) 1536MB 384-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support $489.99 (I expect to eventually buy a second one of these after prices drop)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130590
ZOTAC ZT-40408-10P GeForce GTX 460 (Fermi) 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card $156.99 (this is a back up card, and possibly a physx card while I wait to double my 580)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814500202

Memory:
CORSAIR Vengeance 12GB (3 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model CMZ12GX3M3A1600C9 $149.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233146

Motherboard: I can't decide between these three possibilities:
Intel BOXDX58SO2 LGA 1366 Intel X58 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard $259.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121470
GIGABYTE G1.Guerrilla LGA 1366 Intel X58 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard $299.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128481
ASUS Rampage III Formula LGA 1366 Intel X58 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard $284.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131666

CPU:
Intel Core i7-960 Bloomfield 3.2GHz LGA 1366 130W Quad-Core Desktop Processor BX80601960 $279.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115224

Extra Case Fans:
4 MASSCOOL FD12025S1L3/4 120mm Case Fan $19.16
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835150070

CPU Cooling:
CORSAIR Hydro H70 CWCH70 120mm High Performance CPU Cooler $104.81
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835181013

PSU:
CORSAIR Professional Series AX1200 1200W ATX12V v2.31 / EPS12V v2.92 SLI Certified 80 PLUS GOLD Certified Modular Active ... $279.99 & Price when combined (bundle deal) with the 800d case listed below: $529.98
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139014&Tpk=ax1200

Case:
Corsair Obsidian Series 800D CC800DW Black Aluminum / Steel ATX Full Tower Computer Case $279.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811139001&Tpk=800d


One other question: should I get a separate fan controller that can be mounted in one of 5.25 inch bays? Or is that silly?[/strike]


Ok, new after recommendations build:

b]My possible build (includes prices from newegg before mail in rebates):[/b]

OS:
Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 64-bit 1-Pack - OEM $179.99

OPTICAL DRIVES:
SONY Black Blu-ray Burner SATA BD-5300S-0B - OEM $99.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827118050


Hard Drives:
Seagate SV35 Series ST31000526SV 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive - $74.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148727

SSD:
OCZ Solid 3 SLD3-25SAT3-120G 2.5" 120GB SATA III MLC $219.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227729&Tpk=N82E16820227729


Graphics Cards:
2x XFX HD-697A-CNDC Radeon HD 6970 2GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.1 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card with Eyefinity $759.98 ($379.99 each)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150531

Motherboard:
ASUS P8Z68-V PRO LGA 1155 Intel Z68 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard $209.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131730

CPU & Memory Bundle:
Intel Core i7-2600K Sandy Bridge 3.4GHz (3.8GHz Turbo Boost) LGA 1155 95W Quad-Core Desktop Processor BX80623I72600K
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115070&Tpk=Intel%20Core%20i7-2600K%20Sandy%20Bridge%203.4GHz
G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL8D-8GBXM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231445&Tpk=Model%20F3-12800CL8D-8GBXM
BUNDLE PRICE: $384.98

CPU Cooling:
Noctua NH-D14 120mm & 140mm SSO CPU Cooler $89.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835608018

PSU: ok, which one is a better buy for me?
CORSAIR HX Series CMPSU-850HX 850W ATX12V 2.3 / EPS12V 2.91 80 PLUS SILVER Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply $164.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139011&Tpk=N82E16817139011
OR
PC Power and Cooling Silencer 910W High Performance 80PLUS Silver SLI CrossFire ready Power Supply $179.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817703022

Case:
NZXT Phantom PHAN-001BK Black Steel / Plastic Enthusiast ATX Full Tower Computer Case $139.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811146068&Tpk=N82E16811146068



For a total of: $2,339.88 before mail in rebates.
 

banthracis

Distinguished
Really no need to be spending more than $2k on a PC unless you're going for 3D or eyefinity.

Do you plan on doing any workstation tasks? If not, then you don't need 12gb of RAM.
CPU wise, don't bother with 1366. SB is better and cheaper. An i5-2500k for $230 is as far as you'll need to go is you don't plan on workstation tasks.

If you do, then a i7-2600k would be the choice.

Mobo wise a GA p67A UD4 or Asus P8P67 pro would be fine if you don't need quick synch. Asus has had some issues reported though, so GA may be better bet.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128478&cm_re=ga_p67-_-13-128-478-_-Product

If you need quick synch a GA z68 ud3h. Asus also has a z68, but it's a lot more money for same features as above.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=ga+z68&x=0&y=0

Any particular reason for BD burner? Nothing a BD does an external HD can't do better.

Physx is long dead and abandoned by Nvidia. IE, don't bother.

Really don't need a 1200W PSU. A 850W is more than enough for your setup, even with 2 GTX 580's.

2 great options are
Corsair ax850 $183
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139015&Tpk=ax850

Kingwin lazer gold 850w $155
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817121076&cm_re=kingwin_850-_-17-121-076-_-Product

Small water isn't worth the cost. It's louder and worse performing than big air.
The NH-D14, Silver Arrow and Archon are all cheaper, quieter and better performing than a H70.

Fan controller wise, that's really up to you. The built in ones are very limited in range of control. However, the fans themselves aren't exactly the best either and have a limited v control range. If you do want to have more control over fan speeds you'll need to get your own fans and pair them with a good fan controller.

However, the 800D isn't exactly meant to be an air cooling case. In fact, its pretty horrible for air cooling.

HD wise, a samsung spinpoint F3 1tb or 7200.12 seagate is better.
 


This build is very good but I would change the motherboard. Gigabyte did something strange with about half of their Z68 boards; they removed all support for the IGP (Intergraded Graphic on Processor) from those boards. By doing this the removed all support for overclocking of the graphics and support for the Intel® QuickSync technology and Lucidlogix Virtu software or even using the IGP for backup video. The board that was selected is like this, in that it doesn’t have support for the IGP. So if you like Gigabyte goes with this board http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128498 or if you want Asus go with this one http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131730 either way you will get a great board and an outstanding system.

One more thing you want to add in an SSD drive to take advantage of Intel Smart Response Technology otherwise known as SSD caching. With the 5 year warranty on the Intel SSD 320 80GB it will work great for SSD caching.

Christian Wood
Intel Enthusiast Team
 

genghiskron

Distinguished
Mar 15, 2011
1,115
0
19,460
COOLER MASTER HAF 922 RC-922M-KKN1-GP Black Steel + Plastic and Mesh Bezel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case
Item #: N82E16811119197
Return Policy: Standard Return Policy
-$10.00 Instant
$109.98
$99.98


SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive
Item #: N82E16822152185
Return Policy: Standard Return Policy
Protect Your Investment (expand for options)
$64.99


Noctua NH-D14 120mm & 140mm SSO CPU Cooler
Item #: N82E16835608018
Return Policy: Standard Return Policy
Protect Your Investment (expand for options)
$89.99


SONY Black Blu-ray Burner SATA BD-5300S-0B - OEM
Item #: N82E16827118050
Return Policy: Standard Return Policy
Protect Your Investment (expand for options)
-$20.00 Instant
$119.99
$99.99


OCZ Vertex 3 Series – MAX IOPS Edition VTX3MI-25SAT3-120G 2.5" 120GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)
Item #: N82E16820227714
Return Policy: Limited Replacement Only Return Policy
Protect Your Investment (expand for options)
-$10.00 Instant
$319.99
$309.99


ASUS ENGTX580 DCII/2DIS/1536MD5 GeForce GTX 580 (Fermi) 1536MB 384-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video ...
Item #: N82E16814121429
Return Policy: VGA Standard Return Policy
Protect Your Investment (expand for options)
CORSAIR HX Series CMPSU-1000HX 1000W ATX12V 2.2 / EPS12V 2.91 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Modular Active ...
Item #: N82E16817139007
Return Policy: Standard Return Policy
-$50.00 Instant
-$35.00 Combo
$10.00 Mail-in Rebate Card
$779.98
$694.98


Intel Core i7-2600K Sandy Bridge 3.4GHz (3.8GHz Turbo Boost) LGA 1155 95W Quad-Core Desktop Processor BX80623I72600K
Item #: N82E16819115070
Return Policy: CPU Replacement Only Return Policy
Protect Your Investment (expand for options)
G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL8D-8GBXM
Item #: N82E16820231445
Return Policy: Memory Standard Return Policy
-$30.00 Combo
$414.98
$384.98


ASUS ENGTX580 DCII/2DIS/1536MD5 GeForce GTX 580 (Fermi) 1536MB 384-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video ...
Item #: N82E16814121429
Return Policy: VGA Standard Return Policy
Protect Your Investment (expand for options)
ASUS P8P67 WS REVOLUTION LGA 1155 Intel P67 / NVIDIA NF200 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard
Item #: N82E16813131714
Return Policy: Limited Replacement Only Return Policy
Protect Your Investment (expand for options)
-$10.00 Instant
-$20.00 Combo
$769.98
$739.98
Subtotal: $2,484.88
Shipping: $11.15
Grand Total: $2,496.03
 

tall guy john

Distinguished
May 27, 2011
13
0
18,510



This feature is very interesting to me, but it frustrates me that the only 3-way capable SLI motherboard on Newegg for the Z68 is $350. That is pushing me to the P67...
 

tall guy john

Distinguished
May 27, 2011
13
0
18,510



Wow, you made a number of excellent points that I didn't know/consider. This is really helpful! I do plan on doing some workstation tasks, so will go with the 2600k. I was also looking at the ASUS P8P67 WS REVOLUTION board that genghiskron recommended, but I am confused as to what the real value of quick synch is, and was wondering what problems Asus is having. The z68 boards seem to lack the expandability of the others, is this a correct interpretation? What full size case would you recommend for air cooling?
 

tall guy john

Distinguished
May 27, 2011
13
0
18,510



Oh, its definitely my first time trying this lol. I was really leaning to the gtx580, I'm curious why the 6970 also seems to be a popular recommendation, can you explain to me the benefits?
 

mjmjpfaff

Distinguished
better cable management, competitive cooling, it has its own fan control built in so it is quieter, and i personally think it looks nicer. if you are thinking about getting an ssd the corsair force 3's are about to come out using the same controller the vertex 3's use which will drive the price of the 120 gb ssd down 80$
 

tall guy john

Distinguished
May 27, 2011
13
0
18,510



Man, this gave me a lot to think about! I love some of your combos and good stuff you pointed out!
 

tall guy john

Distinguished
May 27, 2011
13
0
18,510



I'm gonna look at that! What is the benefit of a 6970 vs the gtx580? is performance that close? I was under the impression that the 580 was a much better card...
 

tall guy john

Distinguished
May 27, 2011
13
0
18,510



Thanks for answering so many of my questions! I see what you're saying, and would love to save that money! I was wondering then, the xfx model has a lifetime warranty, would that be better considering the cost? Or is that useless?
 

flong

Distinguished
Dec 27, 2010
1,106
0
19,310
Wow are you getting a lot of advice - I guess I'll jump in. Guys the OP lists a $2500 budget - let loose a little :)

1. Stay with the AX 1200 because you are going to either CF or SLI two serious high watt GPUs. Yes it is way more power than you will use but that is good because this unit may be the most efficient and quiet on the market. The Seasonic is a great unit and it will probably carry the two 580s in SLI but if it is similar to the Corsair 850 HX it will move into the 75% + capacity range which is less efficient and less quiet. the AX 1200 will yawn with two 580s connected to it (or two 6970s). Add to this that the AX 1200 is fully modular, it is nearly silent in operation (very important for me) and it has a 7-year warranty. Finally the cost difference is like $50 which is trivial considering your budget

2. If you have the money, two 580s or two 6970s will crush any other choices for your gaming needs. The question is do you need that much? Only you can answer that question. If you game a lot with high capacity games like Metro 2033, then probably it will be of benefit to you. But you can play any game on the planet with two ATI 6950s in crossfire, just not at the highest settings and that CF setup is a whole lot cheaper. I am not trying to talk you into a cheaper set up, I just want you to have all the options set before you so that you can make the best choice for your needs

3. With your budget and broad stated uses I think that the 2600K is worth the extra $100. The 2500K is also a cheaper choice and it is a tremendous CPU. Having owned an I-7 950 I can say from experience that these two CPUs crush the 950 in performance

4. For the broad needs you list I think the Z68 boards are a better fit. You may end up editing video or using the SSD cache from what you are saying. Only you can make that call. The cost difference between the Z68 and P67 boards is about $40, which is not much considering your budget. I like the Asus mobos or the Asrock

5. According to the reviews that I have read the Corsair 800D does do a decent job of cooling but it is not in the same league as the Coolermaster HAF X 942 and Silverstone FT02 Fortress which are probably the best two cooling cases with the FT02 being the best. But all of these cases are huge (even the Fortress) and so be aware of that

But for you, since you will not need more than two cards you might want to look at the Corsair 650D which is the midtower version of the 800D. It cools better (the cooling has been improved on the 650D), it has the same stunning looks as the 800D, it has USB 3.o and a hot-swap Sata III drive, it is amazingly well thought out and completely toolless and it is only $180 after rebates. I simply love this case. There is a review of it here:

http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1596/

It is also big enough to put any components you want in it but it is a midtower

6. I second the recommendation to go to the Noctua NH-D14, it may be the be CPU air cooler on the market and it remains reasonably quiet at full fans (46 DB). It beats the H70 in cooling and is quieter and cheaper

7. (8GB of RAM) 2 x 4GB of DDR3 1866 CL8 or CL9 Ram will get you superb performance with the 2600K - you really don't need more unless you are an extremely heavy power user.

8. The XFX warranty is one of the best in the business

9. You can get the 800D and the Corsair AX 1200 for about the same price as the bundle separately so get whatever case you want and don' t worry about the bundle. Look for sales and you will save even more

Hope this helps :) Good luck with your build
 

genghiskron

Distinguished
Mar 15, 2011
1,115
0
19,460
The build i have provided gives you:
An i7-2600k
The fastest dual gpu setup currently available.
The fastest 120gb SSD currently available (making SSD caching completely irrelevant)
A mobo with full x16/x16 pci-e lane support
One of the best CPU coolers available.
A blu-ray player (edit: burner)
A power supply that will easily handle dual gtx 580's with a 9.5 rating on Jonnyguru.
8gb 1600mhz CL8 ram

 

banthracis

Distinguished
OK, so couple points. In regards to a NF200 equipped mobo like the Asus revolution, it's not worth the cost unless you plan on using 3 or more GPU's, which at least for gaming is a huge waste of money due to horrible scaling at that point.

What the NF200 chip does is regulate bandwidth btwn PCIe devices. The total PCIe bandwidth doesn't change, but it's better directed to where needed. You can take a read through
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/p67-gaming-3-way-sli-three-card-crossfire,2910.html

A single GTX 580 or 6970 will play any game out there with all the eyecandy turned up at 1080p, and wont have issues with.
There really is no need to xfire or sli top end cards for the sake of a single 1200p monitor.

Crysis 1920x1200 benchmarks are here
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4061/amds-radeon-hd-6970-radeon-hd-6950/13

If you do workstation tasks, quick synch is a hardware based encoding/transcoding system developed by Intel. It is much faster, and more importantly, produces better quality than CUDA.

However, for GPGPU tasks besides encoding/transcoding, CUDA is still king, for now anyway.

You need a h67 or z68 mobo to utilize quick sync. However, only the z68 allows you to overclock as well. P67 allows you to overclock, but not to use quick synch. However, price wise, z68 and p67 mobo's are the same right now, so really no point not to go z68.


Now, as for the power supply choice. PSU's are most efficient between 25 and 85% load. That's where the whole 80+ rating systems comes in. Efficiency is measured at 25%, 50%, 85% and 100% load.

Now, 580SLI system using a power hungry nehalem uses 777 watts under furmark, which is a much higher load than possible under normal conditions. This is power at the socket. Assuming 85% efficiency, the actual power usage is only 660W. . So this is you worst case scenario. Under gaming, like in crysis, you're only using 620w at the socket, or 527W assuming 85% efficiency. Idle power is only 205w at the socket, or 174 actual, which is where you'll be at for simple things like browsing internet, watching a movie or using microsoft office.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4012/nvidias-geforce-gtx-580-the-sli-update

For a 1200W PSU, you're looking at max efficiency btwn 300 and 1020 Watts. The problem here is that most of the time you're only at ~170w, and even under gaming you're using 527w, only halfway into the sweet zone.

For a 850W psu, your sweet zone is 212.5W to 722.5W, which well encompasses your 174 idle and 660 max possible.

In fact, at low load 125w, or where you'll be with a single gtx 580, you're looking at a horrendous 84.1% efficiency for the ax1200. Unfortunately, they didn't test at 174W, but the efficiency will only be a little better.
http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story2&reid=189

On the other hand, for the ax850 175w give you 86.7% efficiency, which is where your PC will be at most of the time in with a sli 580 system.
http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story3&reid=197

So paying more money for a huge overpowered PSU is really not worth it. There's really no benefit.

Case choice wise, the decision really depends on personal aesthetics choice and whether you want to emphasize high airflow, or low noise or a balance.

For an SLI PC, the top choice for quiet and high airflow is the RV 02-E or FT02, though both are expensive, $180 and $250 respectively.

 

mjmjpfaff

Distinguished

an ax 1200 for 2 6970's. ha! might as well burn your money