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Difference between MSI GTX 460 Talon Attack and GTX Super OC?...

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March 19, 2011 9:00:10 PM

Hello, I have a GTX 460 Talon attack from MSI, love it and decided to go SLI. Ideally I wanted to buy the exact same card in order to avoid any compatibility problems, plus I want to overclock them both and have heard great things about the overclocking potential of this particular card.
Anyway, I can't find one to buy new, so I settled for a GTX 460 HAWK OC Edition, figuring that would be my closet match, and suspecting that MSI had probably just ditched the Talon Attack naming replacing it with the less twaty OC Edition.

SO, the question is, if there are differences between the two then what are they?...

I've been looking at the specs and can't figure out what's different myself.
a c 412 Î Nvidia
a b K Overclocking
March 19, 2011 9:26:03 PM

If you SLI the faster Talon Attack with a regular Hawk, or any lower clocked card, the default speed will match the lower speed of the two. Of course, you can then overclock to get back up to Talon Attack speeds. Are you sure you can't find the Talon Attack anywhere? Newegg in the USA has them listed.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...



Just a couple differences between the regular Hawk and the Talon Attack, speed and memory type:


"MSI Readies Faster, Better N460GTX HAWK ''Talon Attack'' Graphics Card

MSI is rolling out a new premium GeForce GTX 460 SKU, the N460GTX HAWK "Talon Attack". The new model is based on the same design as the N460GTX HAWK the company released over a month ago, except that is uses lower latency memory chips (better), at 0.4 ns; and higher clock speeds. The core is clocked at 810 MHz (compared to 780 MHz on the N460GTX HAWK); CUDA cores at 1620 MHz (vs. 1560), and memory at 975 MHz or 3900 MHz GDDR5 effective (vs. 900 or 3600 MHz effective).

Most other features are retained, such as the Twin Frozr II GPU cooler, 7+1 phase VRM with Active Phase Switching (APS), consolidated voltage measure points, "Military Grade" components such as Hi-C Capacitors, Super Ferrite Chokes; and standard GeForce GTX 460 feature set that include 336 CUDA cores, and 1 GB of memory across a 256-bit wide memory interface, with dual DVI + mini-HDMI for outputs"
March 19, 2011 9:31:55 PM

Is the Super OC no different to a regular HAWK then?...

And no I can't get a bloody Talon Attack anywhere new. I thought the Talon Attack might have just been re-named Super OC while I wasn't looking. :lol: 
Related resources
a b Î Nvidia
a b K Overclocking
March 19, 2011 9:36:44 PM

17seconds said:
If you SLI the faster Talon Attack with a regular Hawk, or any lower clocked card, the default speed will match the lower speed of the two."

that is incorrect. SLI can use cards with 2 differenct clocks without any issue apparently. ill point you here for that info http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/299036-33-clocks-card...
March 19, 2011 9:47:35 PM

Thanks I will read that after I walk my dog!.

My understanding of the Talon Attack was that it was physically the same as a HAWK but had been cherry picked for it's overclocking potential, is that not correct or was there more to it?... :heink: 
a c 412 Î Nvidia
a b K Overclocking
March 20, 2011 1:03:43 AM

hankmarvin said:
Thanks I will read that after I walk my dog!.

My understanding of the Talon Attack was that it was physically the same as a HAWK but had been cherry picked for it's overclocking potential, is that not correct or was there more to it?... :heink: 

Check the bold text above.
March 20, 2011 10:02:32 AM

17seconds said:
Check the bold text above.


I did read it and understood it, but a factory set clock means little when you're going to overclock it.
OK the memory's a bit faster, but it's not a main consideration for me in this instance because the cards are so similar.

What I'm asking is will a HAWK super OC be a good match for the Talon Attack to use in SLi?...
Are there any differences other than the memory that a bit of overclocking wouldn't cure. Are they physically identical?...
And if both cards are overclocked and used in SLI can anyone see any compatibility issues?...
March 20, 2011 10:18:25 AM

Quote:
Flash the first card to the HAWK OC's bios

The Talon Attacks settings are higher than the Super OC, did you mean flash the Super OC's with the Talon Attacks?...
a b K Overclocking
March 20, 2011 12:52:03 PM

We'll I have two (2) MSI Hawk Talon Attack's (ah, lucky me, bought 'em both @ the same time...)

One card OC's to 950Mhz the other I can't get it to run stable above 910Mhz.....

Point is, I have two IDENTICAL cards, but with overclocking each card has it's own unique limits. Hey, there are cherries & then there are cherries..

So, if you already own the two cards, just install 'em and the OC each one to it's limit and call it a day.

NOTE: one trick I"ve found with dual cards, the Top card always runs hotter, usually 10C to 15C. So, when OC, put your stronger card in the top slot (in this case most likely the Talon Attack, but, maybe not..). Save the lower slot for the weaker card as it will OC higher if kept cooler.


NOTE: I've tried 5770s, 5870s, and 460s. I've tried them in Corsair 800D, Antec P183, and HAF-X cases. I've always found the top card runs hotter...
March 20, 2011 1:11:03 PM

I haven't received the Super OC yet, just getting my information in before hand. I have the Corsair Obsidian with additional airflow in the form of a PCI GPU cooler, modified to pull cold air in from the rear of the case, so I should be OK I hope.
March 20, 2011 1:41:26 PM

jb6684 said:
Check my profile, I'm also running a Crossfire pair of Sapphire Vapor-X 5870s in an 800D....

I added triple 120mm's on the top of the case solved any temp issues.....

These are Spooky silent :

http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml...


I have three Arctic Cooler F12's on the top and have 2 stock 120mm fans in my Lian Li PCI cooler.
A Corsair H70 with another 2 F12's in Push Pull configuration. And the stock Corsair 140mm fans. I am thinking of changing those for a quieter model though as I find Corsairs fans REALLY noisy generally.
I don't know if it's the stock Corsairs or if it's the Lian Li fans making the noise at the moment though so I need to experiment.
I have 1 F12 spare and another on the way so I will swap those out on the Lian Li when the other one arrives and see.

460's aren't generally that hot anyway as you know so I should be OK, maybe, hopefully, I don't know, I hope.
March 20, 2011 2:10:28 PM



WHY DID YOU HAVE TO SHOW ME THOSE FANS!. I WANT THEM NOW!.
I can't find them in the UK yet, hopefully I won't be able to otherwise I will be surrounded by spare fans!.
Usually the air flow goes right down when they're that quiet but those look very good.
a b K Overclocking
March 20, 2011 2:40:43 PM

We'll when the three (3) of 'em gang up the do a really nice job of it.....

I've also tried the Silenx, they make an 11dBA @ 1100 RPM (similar to the link below) it moves more air then the others but quiet, not Spooky quiet.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

a c 412 Î Nvidia
a b K Overclocking
March 20, 2011 2:42:25 PM

hankmarvin said:
WHY DID YOU HAVE TO SHOW ME THOSE FANS!. I WANT THEM NOW!.
I can't find them in the UK yet, hopefully I won't be able to otherwise I will be surrounded by spare fans!.
Usually the air flow goes right down when they're that quiet but those look very good.

Just about any fan running at 900 RPM's is going to be fairly silent. Although, I do have to say the Enermax fans are pretty good, and quiet.

The Hawk and Talon Attack cards use exactly the same PCB, cooler, power phase circuitry, etc. Just the clock speeds and memory timings are different. So they should be a good pair.
March 20, 2011 2:56:23 PM

Thanks I thought so when I bought it. Just double checking really. I'm well looking forward to running SLI, I've never done it before.
I only have a three way SLI connector bridge at the moment though, can I use that for just two cards?...
a b K Overclocking
March 20, 2011 3:40:49 PM

Cable should work fine.

BTW, since you have a triple cable guessing you may have a bit of a fancy MB, so.. if you have the option, space the cards as far apart as possible...

For Example, I have this MB :

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

If I use the two, Blue x16 slots my temps on the top card are 10C to 15C hotter than the lower card....

But, if I use the Blue x16 slot nearest the CPU and the White x8 slot down at the edge of the motherboard, my top card runs Only 3C to 5C hotter...

I do loose just a tad of performance like 2 FPS, but when your running 80 to 100 FPS it doesn't matter. The cards run cooler and fans don't spin up as high so they are quitter so....
March 20, 2011 4:04:42 PM

Brilliant suggestion!. I was going to try and position my Lian Li cooler under them but it will be a squeeze. I think I will see if I can mound it inside the case vertically over the cold intake vent to shove the cold air directly onto the GPU's. What do you think?...
a b K Overclocking
March 20, 2011 4:25:59 PM

I'd try if with out the Lian Li first, and check the temps....


I'd missed this post:
"I have three Arctic Cooler F12's on the top and have 2 stock 120mm fans in my Lian Li PCI cooler.
A Corsair H70 with another 2 F12's in Push Pull configuration. And the stock Corsair 140mm fans. I am thinking of changing those for a quieter model though as I find Corsairs fans REALLY noisy generally.
I don't know if it's the stock Corsairs or if it's the Lian Li fans making the noise at the moment though so I need to experiment.
I have 1 F12 spare and another on the way so I will swap those out on the Lian Li when the other one arrives and see.

460's aren't generally that hot anyway as you know so I should be OK, maybe, hopefully, I don't know, I hope. """


The Stock Corsair 140mm are Very quiet. They turn at about 1000 RPMs if I recall and you can find faster turning fans that move more air but they get loud fast.....

Knowing the Corsair's I'd blame the Lian Li cooler fans for the noise....

My MSI Hawk Talon Attacks run cool the bottom card never tops 50C the top card maxes out at 62C in games..... (even when OC'd to 850Mhz).

When I run at 900 Mhz they run about 5C hotter....

BEFORE I discovered the trick of the EXTRA wide spacing between card I replaced the stock 140mm Corsair fan in the metal panel between the power supply compartment and the main CPU compartment. I did so to pump in some extra cool air. It works great, but does increase the noise a bit (fans buried deep in the case so, not much louder.

NoiseBlocker is a simply brilliant fan. Zero vibration, amazing piece. Moves 90CFM vs 60CFM for the stock fans. Expensive thou:

http://www.thewatercoolingshop.co.uk/Noiseblocker-Black...

AFTER I did the wide spacing I found I could drop the 1700 RPM speed on the NoiseBlocker to 1200 RPM, but I"ve always got that extra in reserve should I need it.... so you may not need it based on your temps. But, it might be a good replacement for the Lian Li for ease of install & lower noise.

March 20, 2011 5:43:26 PM

I've just looked on the Corsair site, and in the FAQ the stock fans are listed with these specifications:
RPM = 900 +-150
CFM Max = 69
dBA Max = 17.9
So yeah you're right it shouldn't be those creating the noise, it must be the lian Li's as you say.
The ones you replaced yours with are listed as being louder than the stock ones though? :heink:  27dBA?...

Maybe the noise I'm noticing is a cumulative effect of having 10 fans going at the same time?...
a b K Overclocking
March 20, 2011 9:42:19 PM

I Only replace one (1) of the stock Corsair 140mm fans, with the NoiseBlocker, one in the panel between the PS & Main chamber to pull in more fresh air... Its 27dBA at 1700 RPM with is noticeable, BUT, I've found I only need it at 1200 RPM with the extra wide spacing trick. So, its very, very quiet.

Just unplug ALL your fans, then add them back in, one-by-one to find the source of the noise that's disturbing.....


Let me count my fans:

1 - Corsair HX850 power supply suck air in from the floor & out to cool the PS
2 - Corsair stock 140mms one a the rear as INtake. And on cooling the hard drives
3 - Energy fans top exhaust
2 - Sapphire Vapor-X 5870 GPUs one each variable
2 - Noctura 120mm on the Venomous-X cooler 1300RPM
1 - NoiseBlocker 140mm in PS to Main shelf, 1200RPM
1 - Cooler Master cheap fan, 120mm on lower drive bay

12 fans in all. All fans run at Fixed speeds except for GPU fans. The GPU fans only ratchet up about 2 or 3 notches under the heaviest gaming loads....

NOTE: power supply fan never ratchets up as the Corsair HX850 can source over 600watts without even getting warm....

March 21, 2011 12:54:37 AM

jb6684 said:

1 - Corsair HX850 power supply suck air in from the floor & out to cool the PS

Do you mean an extra fan or just that you mounted the PSU so the fan pulls in cold air from the bottom?...
a b K Overclocking
March 21, 2011 1:16:52 AM

Just meant that the PS's own internal fan is mounted down to the floor so it pulls air in from the bottom of the case....
March 21, 2011 8:47:59 AM

Mine too, dosen't everyone do that?...
March 31, 2011 12:59:04 PM

Wow, what a nightmare, I bought a Talon Attack from scan.co.uk, well at least I thought I did, that's what they sold me at least.

They're proper con artists, they sold me a Talon Attack, charged me for it, invoiced me for one and sent me a regular HAWK and hoped I wouldn't notice. Just slapped £20 extra on it and changed the invoice to Talon Attack.

They have a seriously bad customer service too, very bad attitude, couldn't care less about their customers.

So if you have a problem, and nobody else can solve it, maybe you should shop with THE S.C.A.M Team, sorry I meant SCAN Team.

!